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View Full Version : patch 1.2 makes it even worse



tankeriv
04-06-2005, 02:50 AM
Now I can't man both of my guns with windspeeds starting at 7 Mps.
It previously started at 8MPs.

This is that frustrating.

Can't they allow you to use your AA anytimes?

tankeriv
04-06-2005, 02:50 AM
Now I can't man both of my guns with windspeeds starting at 7 Mps.
It previously started at 8MPs.

This is that frustrating.

Can't they allow you to use your AA anytimes?

Mongoose6T7
04-06-2005, 03:08 AM
I too would like to see this loosened up a bit. Especially for anti-air weapons up on the tower and wintergarten.

"No Dieter! You must let him strafe us. I cannot risk your poor accuracy in this stiff breeze." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HelfriedSchultz
04-06-2005, 03:21 AM
It's always been 7mph for me.

tankeriv
04-06-2005, 03:24 AM
I am a 100% sure you could at 7MPs before.

I always asked my navigator what windspeed it is.
So I know when to use my gun or torpedo's.

Capt.LoneRanger
04-06-2005, 03:38 AM
As it was allready said, the DeckGun was not accessable 95% of the time. The DeckGun is way to effective anyways.

Well, easy to say in my IID..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

tankeriv
04-06-2005, 04:30 AM
I actually mean my AA gun at my VIIB

mastershake22
04-06-2005, 06:12 AM
I think that you guys are missing somthing....
the wind is not measured in "Miles per hour" as you have all stated above (MPH)!
its meters per second (MPS)! If you do the math..7 meters a second comes out to 15.6 Miles per hour. In that kind of wind over the water you are not going to shoot any thing!! Not even a sharp shooter can counter that kind of force an a bullet. So what do you think a fully auto gun can hit? Nothing! the bullets would be to unstable.(not going where you want them to go).
Plus the wakes coused by the wind, will rock the sub. so you have a moveing platform mounted fully auto gun, moving up and down side to side shooting at a target(Airplane) moveing around 200 miles per hour need i say more?!?!
It would be a wast of ammo. And you take a chance on loosing a crew member to the rolling motion of the sub.!
------------------------------------------------
Math 101:
1-meter = 3.2808 Feet
7 meters per second =22.9656 feet per sec.
22.9656 feet a sec. = 1377.936 feet per min.
1377.936 feet per min. = 82676.16 = feet a hour
------------------------------------------------5280 feet = 1 mile
82676.16 feet = 15.658 miles
------------------------------------------------
So 7 meters a sec =15.6 miles per hour
8 meters per sec =17.89 miles per hour
9 meters a sec = 20.13 miles per hour
and so and so....


Hope this helps

Paul_Kitngtiger
04-06-2005, 06:37 AM
The object of anti aircraft fire is not necessarily to hit the attacking aircraft, but to put them off their aim. Either by forcing them to make evasive maneuvers or panicking them to fire early.

WW2 anti aircraft tactics involved putting as much fire info the sky as possible, rather than aiming and hitting individual aircraft. The reason U-boats dived rather than fired on incoming aircraft is that a U-boat is a slow target moving in a predictable way, and is incapable of placing a large volume of fire skywards.

WW2 anti-aircraft naval tactics can be seen in footage of Kamikaze attacks. Basically it€s€¦Point everything at the sky, keep firing!

mastershake22
04-06-2005, 06:46 AM
You are thinking of flak guns. not the same thing. A DD can have as many as ten flaks, thats a lot of firer power! a sole u-boat is going to have a hard time "Filling the sky" with AAA fire. Also WWII U-boats did not have the ammo that most surface boats did. so thay did not fire untill thay hade a good shot...agean it 15mph wind a good shot is never going to happen im afraid.

stevenwhiting
04-06-2005, 06:59 AM
As i've said to the people before who said its unrealistic allow you to man the gun in those wind speeds.

1. At 7 there was hardly ANY wash over the deck. The 2 AA/Flak guns are in the tower and the sub was hardly moving so I should still be able to deside to man the guns or not. After all I'M THE CAPTAIN.
2. Someone posted a movie clip of real live footage of a UBoat, in a mild storm, with slight wash coming over the deck, ingaging a merchant ship WITH ITS DECK GUN!. If the real life UBoats did it now and then and took the chance. Why can't we.

If a merchant ship is dead in the water. Has no way of shooting you back. Then you can get in close and you can't fail to miss even with a big storm.

So THAT is the reason we should be able to man the gun, when WE, the CAPTAINS want!

mastershake22
04-06-2005, 07:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stevenwhiting:
As i've said to the people before who said its unrealistic allow you to man the gun in those wind speeds.

1. At 7 there was hardly ANY wash over the deck. The 2 AA/Flak guns are in the tower and the sub was hardly moving so I should still be able to deside to man the guns or not. After all I'M THE CAPTAIN.
2. Someone posted a movie clip of real live footage of a UBoat, in a mild storm, with slight wash coming over the deck, ingaging a merchant ship WITH ITS DECK GUN!. If the real life UBoats did it now and then and took the chance. Why can't we.

If a merchant ship is dead in the water. Has no way of shooting you back. Then you can get in close and you can't fail to miss even with a big storm.

So THAT is the reason we should be able to man the gun, when WE, the CAPTAINS want! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hummmmmm........Good point!

ACSoft
04-06-2005, 07:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stevenwhiting:
As i've said to the people before who said its unrealistic allow you to man the gun in those wind speeds.

1. At 7 there was hardly ANY wash over the deck. The 2 AA/Flak guns are in the tower and the sub was hardly moving so I should still be able to deside to man the guns or not. After all I'M THE CAPTAIN.
2. Someone posted a movie clip of real live footage of a UBoat, in a mild storm, with slight wash coming over the deck, ingaging a merchant ship WITH ITS DECK GUN!. If the real life UBoats did it now and then and took the chance. Why can't we.

If a merchant ship is dead in the water. Has no way of shooting you back. Then you can get in close and you can't fail to miss even with a big storm.

So THAT is the reason we should be able to man the gun, when WE, the CAPTAINS want! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree with that.

Let the CAPTAIN decide what he want to do. He is the supreme commander after God !!!

What should be simulated here is:

If weather condition are bad, aiming to target must be more and more difficult, according to weather conditions. Then, it may happen (also more and more easily) that a man get wounded or even get lost in the see, with a great impact on the submarine crew moral.

scoped_thunder
04-06-2005, 07:52 AM
I have thought of a way which would solve this for pretty much everyones taste...

How about insted of imposing a restriction for manning those guns, why not give the player the choice whether or not to man the weapons in certain weather conditions, but have a penalty for doing so...

This penalty would be a chance for crew to be washed off the deck or injured which increases with the worsening of weather, which together with the increasing inaccuracy of weapons in worse weather, would provide the player a crucial decision on behalf of his crew and his u-boat.

If im talking double dutch im sorry, but this is just my general opinion on a solution for peoples gripes with this.

scoped_thunder
04-06-2005, 07:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I totally agree with that.

Let the CAPTAIN decide what he want to do. He is the supreme commander after God !!!

What should be simulated here is:

If weather condition are bad, aiming to target must be more and more difficult, according to weather conditions. Then, it may happen (also more and more easily) that a man get wounded or even get lost in the see, with a great impact on the submarine crew moral <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy **** thats scary you must have been typing that when I was!! sorry to repeat what you have just said!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I just clicked reply, wrote it, clicked post and you had already beat me to it lmao http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Paul_Kitngtiger
04-06-2005, 09:07 AM
True a U-boat can't put up enough fire to really make a diffrence. But a pilot on a bomb run is less likly to hit his target if he is taking fire, even if that fire in ineffective.

The only thing you have to loose by firing is ammunition and conservation of ammunition is less important than conservation of the U-boat.

But your right, a U-boat can't put up enough fire, thats why historially they dived to evade.

Messervy
04-06-2005, 09:17 AM
The Flak U-boats had enough firepower to take on one aircraft on more than even terms. However they proved to be a blunder as soon as allies revorked their tactics and sent multiple aircrafts to attack simultaneously from different angels thus diverging the subs firepower.

reumatiib
04-06-2005, 09:28 AM
I've seen WWII films with sub crews running around on the deck while water was coming up onto the deck. But you can tap into this quickly too IF you saw Indiana Jones Raider of the Lost Ark. If you will recall they used a real German U-boat in making that show - one that Spain still used at the time. In the show he climbed up on the sub in very choppy seas and ran along the deck. Now compare that to your SH3 weather - and gun crew problems.

THINK - it doesn't hurt - thinking actually helps and can feel good.

reumatiib
04-06-2005, 09:34 AM
The main reason the crew would not be firing a gun in seas with waves has nothing to do with the safety of the crew. It has to do with the constant pitching of the gun itself, making aiming IMPOSSIBLE. Even AA guns would suffer from this. Airplanes - would not be bouncing around as they come in - because the sea waves would not touch them. Thus the AA gun crews would be at a massive disadvantage.

Simple experiment - stand in the back of a pickup as it drives across rough ground and try to aim a gun so as to shoot geese flying over.

scoped_thunder
04-06-2005, 09:41 AM
One question... have you actually ever been to sea in choppy weather? I sincerley doubt it, because it does affect safety, you try standing steady when you being bounced about by the waves! the chances of you losing your footing or falling over increases...

look at the deck of a u-boat... its flat, low to the water and has little to stop you falling off, its bad enough standing on a boat about the size of a uboat in those conditions, but at least theres something to stop you falling off.

Messervy
04-06-2005, 09:44 AM
I have seen war time newsreel with a crew firing the deck gun with see reaching up to their knees. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Mongoose6T7
04-06-2005, 04:06 PM
I agree that the deck and tower of a U-boat would be a dangerous place to work in even moderate seas, but I see it like this...

I have not heard distant aircraft and decided to dive, my watch crew has informed me of aircraft already in visual range. I can try to dive now and I probably should, but they are already starting their attack-run.

I should have the choice to attempt to evade on the surface and put some fire in the air, albeit ineffective fire. I agree that there needs to be restraints, but if I found myself in the real-life situation, I would certainly order the flack into action.

tankeriv
04-06-2005, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
I have seen war time newsreel with a crew firing the deck gun with see reaching up to their knees. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't know if we are talking about the same footage but I have seen that too.

HARD_Sarge
04-06-2005, 04:48 PM
I think the issue shouldnt be if we can or if we can't man the guns in bad weather, the issue is why do we get such bad weather almost everyday?

when I was in the Marines, I made the crossing 4 times, and was in other areas on shorter trips, I only seen one "bad" storm, and from the game, it was no where near what the normal weather in the game is

HARD_Sarge

scoped_thunder
04-06-2005, 06:12 PM
Guys I wasnt having a go and saying it couldnt happen, I am in no doubt that newsreel shows that, the only thing im rattling on about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif is that some kind of risk factor should be placed over the crew members in-game, like in the newsreel, those crew members are in danger and it is a risky situation.

Because I do believe we should have the choice whether the deck gun is manned or not, just like the rest of you..

Sorry if I didnt make myself clear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif