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View Full Version : OT: GTA and your kids.....



Bearcat99
07-13-2005, 05:01 AM
Look at this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3680481.stm) story. and this (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23936) one.

I remember when I was working at Best Buy @ a year ago and a family came into the store and they bought GTA for their kid.. the boy was @ 12-15... I told the parents that I wouldnt recommend that game and they looked at me like I was nuts. The kicker is... the news is just finding out about this but this is old old news..... and we wonder what is happening to our kids... why their values are not what they should be and we allow this type of "entertainment" for them.
Incredible........ Now the moralists will comne out of the woodwork after the horse has left the barn. The game is Grand Theft Auto for goodness sake!! HELLLOOOOO!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Bearcat99
07-13-2005, 05:01 AM
Look at this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3680481.stm) story. and this (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23936) one.

I remember when I was working at Best Buy @ a year ago and a family came into the store and they bought GTA for their kid.. the boy was @ 12-15... I told the parents that I wouldnt recommend that game and they looked at me like I was nuts. The kicker is... the news is just finding out about this but this is old old news..... and we wonder what is happening to our kids... why their values are not what they should be and we allow this type of "entertainment" for them.
Incredible........ Now the moralists will comne out of the woodwork after the horse has left the barn. The game is Grand Theft Auto for goodness sake!! HELLLOOOOO!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

capt_frank
07-13-2005, 05:05 AM
how about the movie "gone in sixty seconds"??!!

Badsight.
07-13-2005, 05:08 AM
the been trying to kill off the GTA series ever since III came out

theres one lawyer particularly that gets rubbished heavily at GTA sites

Bearcat99
07-13-2005, 05:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by capt_frank:
how about the movie "gone in sixty seconds"??!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about it... it is a movie and at least in it you arent acting out the scenes....... over and over and over again.

dazza9806482
07-13-2005, 05:33 AM
Its all a bit hysterical to be honest.

There seems to be a real growth in this idea of a blame culture. Everythings always someones fault.

Especially as regards the first story its ridiculous. Nobody takes responsibility for their own actions, somebody made me eat mcdonalds, shoot someone etc. etc.

I agree that the ratings system should be followed, its important that language and explicit scenes are not freely available to underage kids

but the crucial thing is all kids seek out this stuff- whether through videogames or in my days violent movies we werent allowed to see.

but they are intelligent to realise the difference between right and wrong- the bollocks that comes out blaming other infulences seems to me like passing the buck.

kids like the boys that murdered jamie bulger- and there was a link to the 'Chucky' films, they lived neglected, uncared for lives, and had minimal parental infulence. that was the issue.

u are right though bear- ratings should be followed, but we cant prevent these infulences from getting to kids- its impossible and natural as they grow and develop to be curious

but they know the difference between good and bad, fake and real

Bearcat99
07-13-2005, 05:36 AM
Yeah I agree the blame game goes too far sometimes .... and I am not blaming the game.. but I do think that these things.. what kids see influences them.. be it movies or games... or what they see and hear their parents do.... but I just think that parents should be more aware of what their kids are doing... My son would never play GTA..... he is 8 by the way...

dazza9806482
07-13-2005, 05:42 AM
Yeah i remember my little brother demonstrating how he could beat a guy with a bat in GTA 3, and then continue to beat him repeatedly

my da was a little shocked- and i think what u say is right- parents dont quite grasp what their kids are up too.

but then i suppose its difficult- but the content of these games is becoming very real- or at least stylistically real and parents need to treat games rating the same as they would a DVD

carguy_
07-13-2005, 05:56 AM
There are too many morons that have kids,why?BECAUSE!

Kids need to be controlled as long as they are of minds not experienced enough to face life.Parents are their leaders,they entirely depend on their lives - who their kids play with,what etiquette they have.In order to raise a good human being you do not treat a kid like a god**** plant or dog.You not only feed them but you also create their psyche and have influence on their entire life.

Too many morons that just don`t care.Video games have nothing to do with it.Ok if we are to ban all violence then we ban ALL OF IT.I mean the movies,the theatre,books,music.Yeah,it`s easy to blame the game when all you can reach is a better sentence.

The parents are responsible.I believe in tabula rasa.If they`re too busy with work to take care of their kids why the h@ll do they make`em?Morons that put their job above their kids shouldn`t be able to make kids.A little human being needs assistance,care,love,etc.

I see the future - parents selecting a set of DNA sequence for their perfect unborn child.I get goosebumps everytime I think of this.

This is clearly visible.I`m an elder brother raised when parents had time for me.Anytime.My brother is relatively a nincampoop.
From time to time he installs a certain FFP game.No other FFP game has this option to damage the body,cut off a leg,head,spill some guts.He particulary like to cut body`s head so it looks like a coctail,a bloody coctail. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Ppl don`t understand they should protect their children.Teach them moral behaviour.

I`m not surprised those cockroach lawyers exploit this all to make money.They know what is going on and can make a good personal use of it.

Viking-S
07-13-2005, 06:02 AM
Everything we do and experience will have influence on the rest of our life. This is particularly true when it comes to youngsters who are searching for boundaries and rules in life.
If we feed them violence and tech them that it is no only OK but a good way of solving problems and disputes or even to make a living how do we think that the future will be anything but violent?

E.g.;

"US Army video game draws flak

A computer game devised by the US Army has come under fire from parents anxious that it glorifies violence.
The army hopes that the game, America's Army, will help it to attract the tens of thousands of young people it needs to join its ranks each year.

The game allows players to go through a virtual army enlistment and basic training.

More controversially, they then go on to more advanced training, including marksmanship. The shooting part of the game is so realistic, the computer screen even moves in time to the digital soldiers' heavy breathing.

That is bothering parents like Jack Thompson. He is threatening to sue the army if it does not keep the game away from children.
"I'm the father of a 10-year old boy," says Jack Thompson.
"Every day I drop him off at school I know that he's at greater risk because even some of his classmates as well as others in the general population, train obsessively on these shooter games."

And, for many parents, these virtual images of marksmanship are too close to reality for comfort so soon after the terror spread by the recent Washington sniper shootings.

The game has been played more than 24 million times since it was introduced in July. It's the fact that it's so freely available that's worrying some people. But the army insists it is not just another shoot-em-up video game that glorifies violence.

According to the army, the game is about all its values, including discipline, players who misbehave or shoot somebody they are not supposed to, get kicked out or end up in virtual military prison.

This is not, the army insists, virtual sniper training.
"The correlation between the ability to manipulate a mouse and the ability to actually fire accurately on a range is quite a bit distinct, otherwise we would not have real soldiers training at real ranges as part of basic training", says Paul Boyce from US Army Public Affairs.

And whatever the flak it is attracted over this game, the key for the army is whether a taste of computerised soldiering will persuade more youngsters to try it for real.

source BBC News"

10 points?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/54373_190_170.jpg

georgeo76
07-13-2005, 06:05 AM
Why is violence acceptable while sex is so taboo? Of all of the things one can do in that game, getting a BJ is the worst?

Tell me honestly, why is sex OK in real life but taboo in fantasy, while violence is the opposite?


I'm sorry, but if you think its acceptable for your children to pretend to kill *****s, but not OK to pretend to screw them... maybe you should have gotten goldfish instead of pregnant.

dazza9806482
07-13-2005, 06:11 AM
Jack Thompson's son isnt at a greater risk because of America's Army Online!

hes at a greater risk because guns are freely available in Anerican society.

this kind of mass hysteria doesnt help

all this demise of western culture stuff doesnt cut it. violence has been a nasty fact of life for a long time, it will continue to do so.

the image of the US soldier shooting the wounded iraqi is terrible, but also terribly irrelevant to a debate about computer games.

kids arent morons, and i agree about nuture and development, they arent plugged into the fecking games with morphine rewarding every kill.

they are free thinking and intelligent human beings.

that US soldier did not learn how to do that by games, but through the US army

a fairly venerable institution

RNZAFJay
07-13-2005, 06:11 AM
I love GTA. Love it. My favorite part besides chasing a guy down in a golf cart and beating him to death with a 9 iron, if the radio stations (funny as hell).

But would I want my kids playing it? HELLLLLLLL NO! As a 25 year old adult, I feel my sense of the real and the virtual is pretty clear (though my GF may disagree with 1C games http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif) but it certainly aint for kids and Rockstar games are pretty clear on that.

My copy of Vice City has a big "R18" sign on the front of it and its really easy to see. Like Bearcat said when the parent bough the game for their 12-15 year old despite the R18 on the front (and Bearcats quite resonable warning), who is really to blame, the game or the parents?

As a public school teacher myself, it seems parent blame everything on rock music, hip-hop, movies, video games, us teachers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif you name it. Like Enimien said "where are the parents at?".

My parents raised me with a good sense of morals (made me go to church every Sunday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif) so I feel no amount of violent video games is going to change what I know is right and wrong.

RNZAFJay
07-13-2005, 06:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by georgeo76:
Why is violence acceptable while sex is so taboo? Of all of the things one can do in that game, getting a BJ is the worst?

Tell me honestly, why is sex OK in real life but taboo in fantasy, while violence is the opposite?


I'm sorry, but if you think its acceptable for your children to pretend to kill *****s, but not OK to pretend to screw them... maybe you should have gotten goldfish instead of pregnant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A very good question. One for us to ponder....

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 06:14 AM
Well, I don`t believe in banning things (wellmost things). There should simply be a good enforced age rating. If you tell parents a kid`s underaged for a game and they look at you funny, it don`t matter. You`re in the right.

But there are other things I am beginning to see on TV (not violence or even nudity) that have me worried about how children are being influnced today. There seems to be less and less respect for boundaries of age or reason. It seems everyone`s perverting their `right` and trying to make it every one else`s right.

Some people say, `It doesn`t matter` or `It has no effect`, but on young impressionable minds it DOES. They soak all the **** like an innocent sponge. It`s not right and it is up the parents to guard against this, we can no longer rely on the common sense of governments, advertisers or even Churches!

For reason`s such as this I am VERY cautious in watch my daughter sees or watches on TV, even during day time!

AFTER the child has reached ADULT age, then and only then are they mature enough to make THEIR OWN decisions about the direction they wish to take in life.

HotelBushranger
07-13-2005, 06:16 AM
My oldest brother brought his XBox over, with GTA San Andreas, the newest installment in the GTA series. Its basically gang wars and violence. In the 5 minutes I played it, the word F*** was used so much it wasnt funny. And my little sister plays it all day long, at one point I saw her beating a man to do with a police baton. Shes 10 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif And theres only so much I can do in terms of influence, shes a very stubborn person.

I think, whilst yes its the person who decides to buy the game/watch the violent movie, its also due to an increased pressure by certain aspects of society that you get more and more young people playing violent games. It cannot be denied that in the past say 10 years, there has been an increase in graphic entertainment. With a greater percentage of these games being produced and released, the games developers are going to want to get their moneys worth, and therefore add pressure to both retailers and customers to buy their new, more violent etc games. That, coupled with a lack of decent parenting in this day and age (for the double income sort of bracket: there is no doubt there are still proper parents out there but these days money is more important than raising kids it seems...), doesnt teach children the difference between right and wrong, and good and bad.

RNZAFJay
07-13-2005, 06:21 AM
One of my students draws comics of people being stabbed and st*t in class! I taught in his home room and theres a poster of a game called "Killer 7" on the wall that he put up. Oh, and this is Junior High School.

I asked his homeroom teacher about it and he just said "thats kids today, what you gonna do? Its that American stuff...". I was pretty angry but being the only Gaijin in a Japanese school, my hands are pretty much tied...

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
My oldest brother brought his XBox over, with GTA San Andreas, the newest installment in the GTA series. Its basically gang wars and violence. In the 5 minutes I played it, the word F*** was used so much it wasnt funny. And my little sister plays it all day long, at one point I saw her beating a man to do with a police baton. Shes 10 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif And theres only so much I can do in terms of influence, shes a very stubborn person.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

10!!

Sounds like she`s already getting influenced in a negative fashion. Can`t you get her parents to get stuff like that off her? She`s well underaged.

This is exactly the problem. Parents need to act and not be afraid; it`s the child`s future (and humanity as a whole) we`re talking about here.

HotelBushranger, good luck with it.

dazza9806482
07-13-2005, 06:21 AM
Absolutely, but what ages are we taking about here?

i mean when we are getting to 14 and above- approaching 16/17 the lines get a little blurred.

younger kids- unquestionably need protected.

TV with its endless stream of mass media and adverts isnt good for a young mind

then again- not all parents have the socio-economic benefits that allow them to take a foremost position in their kids lives

it can be tough for some parents and its also no suprise we dont tend to get child murderers or disturbed crimes from well-loved supported and cared for kids

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-13-2005, 06:25 AM
It comes with an 18 certification in the UK although of course that don't stop little jonny getting it off his big brother or via the internet.

Personaly I subscribe to the 'if the kid is a walking feck up then check out the parents. Fecked up kid? Guess what prolly had fecked up parents'

the buck stops with them mot scociety.

rnzoli
07-13-2005, 06:25 AM
My son got an illegally copied GTA at the age of 8 from a close family member. For few days I tried to pursuade my son to "take it easy" and don't go into enjoying the violence. I couldn't, and I had to resort to destroying the CDs. He cried, he was angry with me, but I tried to make him understand the basic motive and also tried hard to offer something else interesting (incl. other interesting PC games).

Don't blame GTA for anything. Blame the lazy parents.

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 06:31 AM
WELL DONE, rnzoli. That is responsible parenting.

At ages that young they easily blurr the line between reality and fantasy. I agree the Parents must take the responsibilty, no matter how hard.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-13-2005, 06:31 AM
I would have kicked said close personal family member up the **** for giving that to my kid with out my say so also

Friendly_flyer
07-13-2005, 06:58 AM
I have no children of my own, so I should perhaps keep quiet. I have done my fair share of babysitting for friends and have worked as a teacher though, so I hope my thoughts are not entirely far out.

Anyway, I once came across a friend of mine playing GTA. Even I found it offensive, and I'm a grown up man of the world an atheist to booth. The games teach some very questionable values, and should be kept far out of reach of kids.

Is GTA a sign of the fall of western civilisation? No, the Romans watched gladiators gutting each other, criminals and wild animals for almost a millennium before the Empire fell. The CIRCVS, despite popular misconception could hardly have had much to do with it. On the other hand, the CIRVS can very much bee seen as a symptom of what was (to our eyes) wrong with Roman society.

I believe GTA is similarly a symptom of what is wrong with American (or rather US) society: Large social and racial differences, a lot off poor, undereducated people having no chance, a strong emphasis material wealth (the "American dream"), a society with little internal cohesion etc. Really, these problems are not GTAs fault.

Small children are basically rational. They understand basic, logical connections. If you teach them that winning at all costs is the aim of life, they will use GTA as a textbook for winning. If you teach them that care and love is the aim of life, they'll see GTA as a just a violent game, and perhaps shun it. I know I would have had I come across it as a kid.

As a parent, you have perhaps 10 years of your life in which to teach your children values. After that, they start entering adulthood, and you can't teach them much more. If you find that you aren't prepared to sacrifice work, friends, games, career or whatever for your children for those 10 years, you might consider not having any.

... because it's you and only you that have the responsibility to give your children a proper upbringing.

Chuck_Older
07-13-2005, 07:23 AM
Kids can tell the difference between fnatasy and reality much more often than people think, in my opinion

I recall when I was a kid, Looney Tunes cartoons were "bad" according to some folks

I never tried to drop a cinderblock on anyone's head, or hit my friend with a baseball bat to see stars and birdies flying around their heads

Video games are like any other piice of entertainment: Parents must do a thing called "Parenting". You wouldn't take a child to a porno movie, so why would you just buy them any old DVD, DVD-ROM, or X-box game? It boggles my mind. Responsibility is a thing of the past for most folks it seems. Take interest in what your children do. Learn about whether it's something you want them to see or do.

The old "other kids do it" routine is a bunch of complete BS. The attitude is :let them do whatever, they will do it anyway"

That's NOT the attitude of a good parent

The Cult of Victimhood in the USA is pathetic. It's always someone else's fault, and the person who screwed up is a victim. Baloney

Take Bearcat's example: he mentioned to the parents it might not be appropriate. The parent's reaction indicates that they had NO idea and didn't really care

Parenting seems to be considered an activity that is a part-time job nowadays. My dad just retired as a school teacher. The stories he tells about parents, from grades 5 to 12...the parents expect the schools to raise the kids

Peter: In general I agree, but please don't think a video game is a good mirror that reflects US society. Poor versus Priveledge...is not going to be showcased in such s simple manner. It's not poor versus priveledge, it's pushing the envelope of Shock Value, nothing more

Friendly_flyer
07-13-2005, 07:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It's not poor versus priveledge, it's pushing the envelope of Shock Value, nothing more </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I quite agree. I just think that had there not been for the social problems (esp. drugs and gang crime); these types of games in general would not have such a following. The game idolises actions that's unfortunately the easiest way a disturbingly large proportion of the population for ever seeing any glamour (though short lived) in their lives.

WTE_Ibis
07-13-2005, 07:46 AM
Show me the money,stuff the kids.
That is the attitude of big business.Period.
The only defence is the parents, and guess what,they're busy making money(we definitely need the second car and the 300 inch TV,BUGGER THE KIDS.

darkhorizon11
07-13-2005, 07:56 AM
Okay this can go on and on...

I'm not saying GTA is alright, but picking out just this game as being bad? Com'n now video games have been violent for years. And for the record I wouldn't buy it for my children either if had any.

And the sex thing? Its a parents job to keep up with their kids and decide whats right and wrong. Blaming a video game is no excuse for bad parenting.

Even IL2 had some blood in the cockpit and in certain aircraft the pilot still slump over dead. I'm not brandishing my sword saying IL2 or FB is just as bad but everyone is guilty of this.

Plus I think its hilarious that they can show killing in cold blood, violent murders etc. but god forbid they show and excessive sexual innuendo or nudity and theres a hex on everything.

Like I said I'm not saying GTA is okay, and has no effect on the actions of kids, but to suddently pretend its evil when this sort of thing has been happening for years is just as ignorant.

dazza9806482
07-13-2005, 08:03 AM
Yeah the old no sex thing is funny

my poor old da would let us watch Schwarzenegger movies so long as there was no funny stuff..

lol!

still me and my bro are fairly well adjusted....

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Kids can tell the difference between fnatasy and reality much more often than people think, in my opinion

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I used to watch them, Tom and Jerry and I loved it. And no, it didn`t turn me into a killer of cats or mice or men.

But my Father was, and still is a strnog Christian and believer in God, and he always instilled me the difference between real and not real, right and wrong. Perhaps he felt with this it was safe to let me watch such stuff as Tom and Jerry.

But he was always careful what I could and couldn`t see and I`m thankful for it. Later, once I came of age, nothing I was secured in that buffer-zone which always told me how far I could and couldn`t go.

I guess my point is, EVERY CHILD needs to know they have a limit they should not step beyond (whether they admit or not and most won`t admit it) and whether you use your own personal moral values and /or religious beliefs, a Parent must give that guidance and that guidance must stronger than all the rubbish a child may later be exposed to.

Hmmm. Getting a bit too philosphical now....

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 08:11 AM
Oh, and it has always amazed me too how violence is acceptable, yet not sex. Surely sex is the better of the two? It seems a mostly American taboo to me...

SeaNorris
07-13-2005, 09:09 AM
Ok I am 13, played GTA since it was in its 2D form.

1.) You have to shoot people, have I ever shot anyone? no.

2.) You steal cars, have I stole a car? no.

3.) There are no sex parts in the PS2 version.

4.) This bull$hit has come up so many times, people are milking it now.
5.) The game (at last look) doesn't tell you to:

a) Go out and kill anyone you meet.
b) Steal cars.
c) Drive by shootings.

It has not affected me, so how anyone gets the idea GTA can affect you seriously needs there head testing.

BaldieJr
07-13-2005, 09:17 AM
I never understood the attraction to such games anyhow. For kids, sure. Its got all the things kids aren't allowed to do/know about.

But grown men spending hours in front of it?

Theres your societal issue.

Nubarus
07-13-2005, 09:28 AM
"in their defence they told investigators that they got the idea to shoot cars from GTA3"

Translated: It wasn't our idea, we where possesed by this evil game!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"Their parents also blamed the industry"

Yes, an easy way out is alway better then looking at your own short commings as a parent. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

If everything was to blame on violent games then the world would be in total anarchy by now, not just a few incidents by mentally unstable kids.

LStarosta
07-13-2005, 09:34 AM
Yeah.... It's all an excuse for sh!tty parenting. No one's willing to admit they f*cked up as a parent because they were busy downing pints at the bar isntead of teaching poor little Jimmy good morals.

And I must say, I never understood why sex is such a vile subject. It's a part of life!

I'm probably going on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure that at least half of us wouldn't be here without it.

B16Enk
07-13-2005, 09:52 AM
Well my kids can get it when they are 18 and living elsewhere...

I have enough to do to retrain them after school, when they come home and feel a need to test/practice the new words they heard in the playground.
OK I exaggerate, but it did happen a couple of times, when my son was introduced to some gutter slang gleaned of mp3's his classmate had downloaded with his fathers assistance.

Shocking to consider that it was deemed appropriate for a nine year old to listen to some R'n'B (is it just me or did that mean 'Rhythm and Blues' once) that consists largely of brags and descriptions of sexual feats and/or physical violence.

My son has complained that so-and-so is playing insert 16+ rated game name here yet I forbid it. I patiently point out the age restriction, and that the other parents are free to allow what they will in their own homes, but my way is the right way for him and us.

Yes the kids can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, but I wonder if the portrayal of violence in games/films/songs can be seen as tacit tolerance.

With regard to the sex taboo, when it comes to my kids the less they see it glamorised the better. There are enough teenage pregnancies and kids with diseases..

FI-Aflak
07-13-2005, 09:59 AM
How a kid turns out is a reflection on how he was raised, not on video games. I played GTA3 when I was 14, and I like to consider myself fairly well adjusted.

If a kid is going to go on a killing spree, it isn't set off by a video game. It is set off by years of being ignored, beaten, or otherwise abused by stupid parents . . . the video games just provide a scapegoat. We are seeing the death of personal responsibility in the civilized world - video games getting blamed for real violence is just one sign of that.

jessi1
07-13-2005, 10:19 AM
I think it should be world leaders that are the characters, beating people up, selling drugs, extortion, driving fancy cars, screwing ******s, causing gang wars, then maybe the kids will see what life is really about and who really runs the world. Just change the characters to our world leaders and the truth is in there face.

LStarosta
07-13-2005, 10:27 AM
I agree that it should be established that sex is something shared by two people who love each other. But I think it's absurd that women's breasts are being blurred out, even when not in the context of explicit sexual activity. We really should get our priorities straight. The whole concept of censorship would be a laughable failure, if it wasn't so messed up.

waffen-79
07-13-2005, 10:41 AM
hi guys!

I'm 26 and have played the series since 2D also and other Gore games.

I don't have kids of my own

BUT If some "teens" renact scenes or features of this game and others in real life...I'll say they're _F_U_C_K__T_A_R_D_S_, deserve to go to prison and get molested!!! SORRY moderators wont happen again... oh... and blame the Parents.

this is like the post of a 14 yr old that stole the cessna, people encourage this kind of behaviour.

Regards.

MOH_MADMAN
07-13-2005, 10:54 AM
A kid plays the GTA series for five years, hangs out w his buds playing, steals some of dads pot, and a few of his beers for a buzz. All the while playing GTA

Will the kid:

Go on a murder spree?
Go to college?
Become your doctor?
Put Microsoft out of business?
Drop out of high school?
Operate machinery?
Get you hooked on it too?
Become a president that hails from Texas?
End up too lazy to do anything and start knocking off convenience stores?
Live off welfare?
Get your teenage daughter pregnant, move in and call you dad?
Wipe out on your badazz motorcyle?(lil punkbastid!)
Steal your fine automobile?(double lil punkbastid!)


After carefull consideration there, Id say hes more likely than not a non contibuting member of society, anti social nutcase, menace and should be dealt with caution and severity, in most cases. Talk nice to your doctor though, he may play it also.

MAD

Hydra444
07-13-2005, 12:07 PM
What most kids need these days is a good whippin on the hind area http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Truth be told is that most parents don't know how to be parents these days.Idiots raise idiots,its a vicious cycle really http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

LilHorse
07-13-2005, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
I believe GTA is similarly a symptom of what is wrong with American (or rather US) society: Large social and racial differences, a lot off poor, undereducated people having no chance, a strong emphasis material wealth (the "American dream"), a society with little internal cohesion etc. Really, these problems are not GTAs fault.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, man. Here we go. Yeah, the U.S. is teh Hitler, the anti-Christ blah, blah, blah.

That's all easy for you to critisize from your mono-cultural society. A "society with little internal cohesion"? Name any country in the world with as diverse a population that gets along as well as the U.S.

As for the American Dream, that dream was never about making money at all costs. If that's what you think the American Dream is then you don't know what you're talking about.

"a lot off poor"? Do you realize that what passes for poverty line in the U.S. is equal to middle income in Europe? Do you imagine oceans of poor and destitute swarming over America while the small number of rich live baracaded in luxurious closed communities? Again, if you do, then you don't know what you're talking about.

I think you buy into too much of what your socialist politicians spoon feed you about the U.S. I live here. I know. You don't.

Now as for GTA...Yes, parents need to be more involved in kids lives and what they see on TV or play.

But let's face it. GTA glorifies scumbags and criminal behavior. Are the makers of the game trying to make money at any cost? You bet yer a$$ they are.

How 'bout this. How 'bout there's a lot of responsibility to go around, parents, game makers, movie and TV producers. Simply saying it all falls on the parents is as silly as saying it all falls on the game makers. They have a responsibility too. They shouldn't get a "get-out-of-responsibility-free" card because of "creative freedom of expression" or any such nonsense.

Capt.England
07-13-2005, 12:56 PM
Right People;

A year ago this subject came up on local radio. I, as a person who had a very liberal childhood, but got smacked if I got out of line, had to phone up the station when all the views became very one sided (IE. ban this filth). This is what I said:

"When Jack the Ripper was on his killing spree, did he have computer games to blame? No. Did he have T.V. to blame? No. Did he have videos/D.V.D. to blame? No."

You should of heard the silence after I came on.

BTW, In this country (England), If you work in a shop and sold an 18 cert game (like this is labelled) to anyone who is under aged, or to any one who is buying the product for some one who is under aged, then you WILL be fined. I know this as my sisters boyfriend used to work in a computer game shop in town.

I must end this rant by saying that I have been playing games since 1978 (space invaders when it first appeared at Skegness sea side town), watched most of the banned `Video nasties` in the early eighties, and I love cats. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Why should I not be allowed to play 18 cert computer games, yet I can buy 18 cert movies?

Bring on more GTA please! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Viking-S
07-13-2005, 01:00 PM
Just come to think of it, the most video playing population in the world is probably the Japanese and the murder and violence rate in that country is among the lowest in the world so it can not be a direct connection between videogames and crime rate. It has something to do with the society€s €œapproval€ of violence as a solution to problems and probably in conjunction with myths of violent heroes.

Nubarus
07-13-2005, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LilHorse:
Now as for GTA...Yes, parents need to be more involved in kids lives and what they see on TV or play.

But let's face it. GTA glorifies scumbags and criminal behavior. Are the makers of the game trying to make money at any cost? You bet yer a$$ they are.

How 'bout this. How 'bout there's a lot of responsibility to go around, parents, game makers, movie and TV producers. Simply saying it all falls on the parents is as silly as saying it all falls on the game makers. They have a responsibility too. They shouldn't get a "get-out-of-responsibility-free" card because of "creative freedom of expression" or any such nonsense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what you are trying to say with the free card **** but myself and plenty of my friends played and still play violent games, watch violent movies, listening to death/grind/industrial/thrash metal music and played horror/fantasy roleplay and none of us are criminals or mental cases.
Hell, I even come from a broken home for crying out loud.

All the ingredients to become a anti social criminal right?!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

As for myself, I have a job, my own house, a pet and I am about to get married.

Everything that I did as a child and in my youth is now being percuited by christian fanatics and lawers because according to them it is poisoning the youth's minds.

Speaking with personal experience I have to say that all this crying is about putting the blame somewhere else and try to get easy money out of it as well by getting some lawyer to sue for 60 milion pounds..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Not to mention the criminal kids themselves trying to get out of this mess by making up all this bogus cr@p. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-13-2005, 01:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.England:


"When Jack the Ripper was on his killing spree, did he have computer games to blame? No. Did he have T.V. to blame? No. Did he have videos/D.V.D. to blame? No."

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So in fact he was just bored sh1tless

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 01:21 PM
The bottom line is it`s down to the parents. Of course, a child may go AWOL for whatever reason and sometimes even the parent cannot help it, but as long as the parents watched their child, instructed it, directed it and, importantly chastised where necessary, then they`ve done their job.

Also, a child in a bad family can also turn out to be independently good, but there`s a greater chance of a good child if properly looked after by a caring responsible parent/s.

Don`t try and pervert the point we`re trying to make, Nubarus.

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 01:24 PM
Apologies, Nubarus, I meant to name Lilhorse.

The **** forum again won`t let me correct the mistake.

Nubarus
07-13-2005, 01:26 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

diomedes33
07-13-2005, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nubarus:
Everything that I did as a child and in my youth is now being percuited by christian fanatics and lawers because according to them it is poisoning the youth's minds.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think these people are doing a thousand times more damage then the rhetoric that they spout about video games.

I agree with a lot of the others that posted. Especially in the US (I don't know much about the whiny scapegoat syndrome in other countries), people need to acknowledge their own mistakes and take responsibility. Everytime someone spills coffe on themselves there should not be a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Take the pain and realize that you were a dubm@$$ and don't ever do it again.

LilHorse
07-13-2005, 02:10 PM
You guys seem to mis-understand me.

Are parents responsible for their childrens upbringing? Of course they are.

But other parts of society have responsibility too. I'm saying that everybody who participates in, contributes to society has some responsibility for what happens in society. So, how about instead of every party running to their corner like roaches scatter when the kitchen light is turned on and pointing to everybody else as "the bad guy", people come together and ask: "okay, how has what I've done contributed to this."

Nubarus, so you did all that stuff and didn't turn out to be a criminal. Bully for you. I wouldn't have suspected that you would have. And I'm not suggesting that violent video games = criminal behavior in society.

It wouldn't matter if GTA was never used as a excuse for criminal behavior. What what I want to know is what is the point of glorifying criminality? Didn't the makers ask themselves this question? For peoples entertainment?

Hey here's an idea. Why don't they put out a game called "Deathcamp" where people can pretend they run a concentration camp and can perpetrate all manner of atrocities on the inmates.

Would that be a horrible glorification of criminality? You bet! Would peoople be outraged? Of course, and they should be. So, how come GTA gets a pass for glorifying criminality? A game where stealing, raping, torturing, and killing are part of the game.

Really, it's disgusting. It's cr@p And the people who created it are filth.

Nubarus
07-13-2005, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LilHorse:
That's all easy for you to critisize from your mono-cultural society. A "society with little internal cohesion"? Name any country in the world with as diverse a population that gets along as well as the U.S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mono cultural society in a European country?

Please educate me on that because I live in one and visited nearly all the other one's and I didn't see any so called "mono" anywhere.

Hell, I don't even know how many different nationalities are living in my own country but there are plenty of them and we get along just fine here, with the occasional incident that is getting whipped up here because our government is stupid enough to follow some loonyfarm ripe texan that is out for blood to divert people's attention away from his own incompetence.

But so far we didn't have any bombings.

We had some threats and one murder related to this whole "war on terror" BS that some people think can be solved by invading countries and bombing and killing the inhabitants. (That's how you breed terrorists but hey, some polititians think violence, death and destruction is how you deal with it so that must be the right path to follow) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Bearcat99
07-13-2005, 02:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
My son got an illegally copied GTA at the age of 8 from a close family member. For few days I tried to pursuade my son to "take it easy" and don't go into enjoying the violence. I couldn't, and I had to resort to destroying the CDs. He cried, he was angry with me, but I tried to make him understand the basic motive and also tried hard to offer something else interesting (incl. other interesting PC games).

Don't blame GTA for anything. Blame the lazy parents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My son did the same thing wigh Goldeneye... he used to like to sneak up on the guys and pop them in the back of the head... I had to take it from him.... I figured since violence is a prt of this world and we see it all the time you know.... then I would let him play the game... "briefly".. but he got to liking it too much.. and I am sorry... although you cant blame the game for making people do stuff... young minds can ad routinely are desensitized to violence by things like that and seeing voiolence constatly as much as they would be desensitized to seeing women as more than s@x objects if they were brought up constantly looking at porn. It is a fact.... but it is PARENTS who have to step in....

The thing is though that for a lot of parents... especially single ones ..... they cant step in.... they dont get home from work till 8-9 oclock.... and this world just eats their kids up.

LStarosta
07-13-2005, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
My son got an illegally copied GTA at the age of 8 from a close family member. For few days I tried to pursuade my son to "take it easy" and don't go into enjoying the violence. I couldn't, and I had to resort to destroying the CDs. He cried, he was angry with me, but I tried to make him understand the basic motive and also tried hard to offer something else interesting (incl. other interesting PC games).

Don't blame GTA for anything. Blame the lazy parents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My son did the same thing wigh Goldeneye... he used to like to sneak up on the guys and pop them in the back of the head... I had to take it from him.... I figured since violence is a prt of this world and we see it all the time you know.... then I would let him play the game... "briefly".. but he got to liking it too much.. and I am sorry... although you cant blame the game for making people do stuff... young minds can ad routinely are desensitized to violence by things like that and seeing voiolence constatly as much as they would be desensitized to seeing women as more than s@x objects if they were brought up constantly looking at porn. It is a fact.... but it is PARENTS who have to step in....

The thing is though that for a lot of parents... especially single ones ..... they cant step in.... they dont get home from work till 8-9 oclock.... and this world just eats their kids up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it's okay for you to totally BnZ an unsuspecting n00b and aim for the cockpit for an easy
PK with your .50's tho.

WarWolfe_1
07-13-2005, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The bottom line is it`s down to the parents. Of course, a child may go AWOL for whatever reason and sometimes even the parent cannot help it, but as long as the parents watched their child, instructed it, directed it and, importantly chastised where necessary, then they`ve done their job.

Also, a child in a bad family can also turn out to be independently good, but there`s a greater chance of a good child if properly looked after by a caring responsible parent/s.

Don`t try and pervert the point we`re trying to make, Nubarus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seafire is right you know.

It all comes down to parenting. As a parent I myself know that I can't be there all the time, but you can't leave a kid in a room alone with a bag of weed and never tell them anything. You have to talk to your kids, be honest. Tell them you know you can't be there all the time, tell them they have to use their jugment, tell them that for every action there is a reaction, tell them you love them, tell them its ok to talk to you. Don't blow your top every time your kid tries to tell you something, that makes them not want to come to you. If they fell comfertable talking to their parent's chance are instead of getting a gun and shooting up their school because they've been picked they will come to you and ask for your help. You have to be a parent of action, follow through on what you say. Never ignore the problem and hope it will go away, because it wont.

For the people blaming american society: you only add to the problem, I bet if your kid got pulled in for dope the first thing you would do is blame the school for not teaching your chrildren beter. ITS THE BLAME GAME. "Charles Manson wasn't bad, his mother just didn't hold him enough!" &lt;------BS. "My child would never have done this, if the game developer, publisher, distriuter, retailer, blah, blah, blah, blah.......", If I only had a dime for everytime I've heard someone say bullsh!t like this. Be responseble as parent's.


Parent's its up to you.

Kids its up to you to listen to your parent's. Trust me, they sometimes know what they are talking about.

WarWolfe_1
07-13-2005, 02:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The thing is though that for a lot of parents... especially single ones ..... they cant step in.... they dont get home from work till 8-9 oclock.... and this world just eats their kids up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


But its still up to those parent's in the end. With out a doubt, 200% up to that parent, to be part of their childrens life.

carguy_
07-13-2005, 02:40 PM
Took the word right out of my mouth,Nubarus. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

darkhorizon11
07-13-2005, 02:45 PM
The real point I was trying to put out is that no side in the matter is 100% right. If you abuse a child his whole life both sexually, physically, and mentally his chances of growing up to be a serial killer or child molester are greatly increased.

The same concept runs with video games if you expose a child too hardcore violence and sex on TV and video games from a young age until they grow too adulthood they will grow up more violent obsessive and perverted than someone that wasn't. People will argue with me about that one but its true, my ex-girlfriend worked in a psychiatric clinic for two years as a nurse and told me some very disturbing things about some of the patients there. And yes many of them who had commited violent crimes were never abused really, but had been exposed to pornography and extreme violence from a young age, mostly through television, radio, and basically just mimicing their parents. Its ignorant to think exposure to violence at such a suceptable time in their lives won't affect their personalities.

At the same time, parents STILL are the greatest influence on their children. A greater influence than any video game, classmate, or television show. It all comes back to the fact that parents need to supervise their children (especially between the ages of 3 and 10) and choose what is appropriate.

Like I said, no side in the issue is totally right, or totally wrong. Its a 50/50 mix of both.

LilHorse
07-13-2005, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nubarus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LilHorse:
That's all easy for you to critisize from your mono-cultural society. A "society with little internal cohesion"? Name any country in the world with as diverse a population that gets along as well as the U.S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mono cultural society in a European country?

Please educate me on that because I live in one and visited nearly all the other one's and I didn't see any so called "mono" anywhere.

Hell, I don't even know how many different nationalities are living in my own country but there are plenty of them and we get along just fine here, with the occasional incident that is getting whipped up here because our government is stupid enough to follow some loonyfarm ripe texan that is out for blood to divert people's attention away from his own incompetence.

But so far we didn't have any bombings.

We had some threats and one murder related to this whole "war on terror" BS that some people think can be solved by invading countries and bombing and killing the inhabitants. (That's how you breed terrorists but hey, some polititians think violence, death and destruction is how you deal with it so that must be the right path to follow) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The response was because the guy is from Norway. There's more people living in New York City than in Norway. And in NYC alone there are more people of different cultures all living and working together than there are in any country anywhere in Europe.

But go ahead, bring something utterly unrelated to the thread into it. Why pass up a U.S. bash when you've got the chance? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif (see, I can use the rolly eyes too, ain't that cute?) Afterall, our pal Friendlyflyer didn't.

He was the one who made the suggestion that the U.S. was racked with "little internal cohesion" (his words, read 'em again if you have to).

I just took pains to point out that he being from Norway (which ain't exactly ethnic or cultural diversity central) couldn't exactly critisize the U.S. for his perception of it having "little internal cohesion".

I also pointed out that I live here and he doesn't. I know, he doesn't.

And neither do you.

Bearcat99
07-13-2005, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
My son got an illegally copied GTA at the age of 8 from a close family member. For few days I tried to pursuade my son to "take it easy" and don't go into enjoying the violence. I couldn't, and I had to resort to destroying the CDs. He cried, he was angry with me, but I tried to make him understand the basic motive and also tried hard to offer something else interesting (incl. other interesting PC games).

Don't blame GTA for anything. Blame the lazy parents. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My son did the same thing wigh Goldeneye... he used to like to sneak up on the guys and pop them in the back of the head... I had to take it from him.... I figured since violence is a prt of this world and we see it all the time you know.... then I would let him play the game... "briefly".. but he got to liking it too much.. and I am sorry... although you cant blame the game for making people do stuff... young minds can and routinely are desensitized to violence by things like that and seeing voiolence constatly as much as they would be desensitized to seeing women as more than s@x objects if they were brought up constantly looking at porn. It is a fact.... but it is PARENTS who have to step in....

The thing is though that for a lot of parents... especially single ones ..... they cant step in.... they dont get home from work till 8-9 oclock.... and this world just eats their kids up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it's okay for you to totally BnZ an unsuspecting n00b and aim for the cockpit for an easy
PK with your .50's tho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got that right...... I'll be 50 in 3 weeks so I can do what I want to as far as gaming goes. My son on the other hand cannot. I even limit his flying time for the same reason, but I do let him fly. In his mind he is shooting the plane... not a person.. virtual of course. In a FPS though he sees the kill, stalks the kill, and shoots the kill... often with very graphic results..... sorry.. not my son.... not yet anyway.

Even in real life there was a difference between the percieved violence of a man say.... in a fighter squadron and one in the infantry who often had to see the man he was shooting fall.... there is a certain detachment that comes from shooting a man in an airplane and seeing him slump over and his plane pancake into the ground and seeing a guys head explode as the round you just fired goes through his brain.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LilHorse:
Are parents responsible for their childrens upbringing? Of course they are.

But other parts of society have responsibility too. I'm saying that everybody who participates in, contributes to society has some responsibility for what happens in society......
And I'm not suggesting that violent video games = criminal behavior in society.

What what I want to know is what is the point of glorifying criminality? Didn't the makers ask themselves this question? For peoples entertainment?

Hey here's an idea. Why don't they put out a game called "Deathcamp" where people can pretend they run a concentration camp and can perpetrate all manner of atrocities on the inmates.

Would that be a horrible glorification of criminality? You bet! Would peoople be outraged? Of course, and they should be. So, how come GTA gets a pass for glorifying criminality? A game where stealing, raping, torturing, and killing are part of the game.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My sentiments exactly.... and there is a game out called Death Camp Commander or something to that effect..... it can still be found but i dont think it ever made it to widespread distribution.

arcadeace
07-13-2005, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LilHorse:

Hey here's an idea. Why don't they put out a game called "Deathcamp" where people can pretend they run a concentration camp and can perpetrate all manner of atrocities on the inmates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not PC. I also doubt its PC to make a game bringing down tyranny guilty of genocide.

I agree with you, there€s responsibility and blame for all participants. When the day arrives technology gives a real, real life experience€¦ I can€t help to wonder.

A lot of good points made in this thread. Especially the usual America teh Hitler and scum http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

LStarosta
07-13-2005, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arcadeace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LilHorse:

Hey here's an idea. Why don't they put out a game called "Deathcamp" where people can pretend they run a concentration camp and can perpetrate all manner of atrocities on the inmates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not PC. I also doubt its PC to make a game bringing down tyranny guilty of genocide.

I agree with you, there€s responsibility and blame for all participants. When the day arrives technology gives a real, real life experience€¦ I can€t help to wonder.

A lot of good points made in this thread. Especially the usual America teh Hitler and scum http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ohh... I thought there was that one Balkans on Fire game or whatnot...

F19_Ob
07-13-2005, 03:51 PM
Kids love shiit, they don't understand it, but love it.


The really sad thing is that we can't protect them from clever planned shiit like this, and many who tries will be seen as the evil parent from the kids view.
With kids I mean the ones too young to understand their parents protection and care for them. If they do understand they ofcourse are adults already. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

In my job as a teacher I often felt sad when I detected overwhelming stupidity in parents.
Smart parents too often have nice and smart kids
wich has forced me to change opinion about people and class to something less prefereable.

I belive Darwing was right though, when he annoyed people with his opinion about survival of the fittest.
It's a fight against the clock ,and just being smart isn't enough. You have to get smart fast.

If one get that smart when young the possibility of happines and peace of mind seems less probable though, atleast according to the wierd doctrins of philosophy.

so what to do?
I fly online and shoot a lot, and that helps. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

knightflyte
07-13-2005, 03:51 PM
I wonder if the parents sat there and played the game with their kids how they'd feel about their child playing a game that has a level of violence and sex that most adults would shudder at?

Bearcat99
07-13-2005, 03:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knightflyte:
I wonder if the parents sat there and played the game with their kids how they'd feel about their child playing a game that has a level of violence and sex that most adults would shudder at? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats the thing too.. a lot of parents buy stuff like this for their kids with no idea whats in it.... they just give it to them to get them ot of their hair

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knightflyte:
I wonder if the parents sat there and played the game with their kids how they'd feel about their child playing a game that has a level of violence and sex that most adults would shudder at? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol. I like checking out any new game just to see what it`s like. It`s highly unlikely that my kid would ever get away with any PC game without me at least trying it first! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif So anything dodgy I`ll find.

knightflyte
07-13-2005, 04:11 PM
I also believe it's a cummulative thing. It's not games. It's games ...TV....music... bad parenting... a school syastem that IS in dire trouble. (Sadly schools are expected to teach things PARENTS are supposed to.)

It's the general lack of respect shown in MANY MANY avenues of life. Most can't be controled....nor should be.... BUT RESPONSABILITY GOEAS A LONG WAY.

Add to that the economic needs that not eberyone can meet comfortably you get latch key kids with no vision.

Talk about drinking the KOOL AID.
The koolaid isn't about left/ right or conservative/ liberal. To believe that environmental things like innappropriate music, movies, videogames, books, economy, education has no effect on impressionable minds IS DRINKING THE KOOL AID.

All these things drip drip drip into the social bucket overflowing to the kids. Then when they get older and their life goes down the drain they wonder why.


Off soapbox. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

SeaFireLIV
07-13-2005, 04:23 PM
You are right, knightflyte. I mentioned this earlier on. All common sense seems to dropped out of the schools, TV and even Churches.

And just like you say, it`s the drip, drip, drip that slowly permeates into our children`s minds like water through rock over aoens.

Once, in my young college days, I didn`t believe it, but now I do. What we allow children to absorb DOES have an effect later in their lives. Remember, it all sits in the subconcous mind.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-13-2005, 04:32 PM
You know guys one thing I have learned and perhaps we should pas on to our kids is that these kinda threads/debates/arguments only ever end in tears and dont realy achieve anything.

Tears before bedtime.

IBTL

LStarosta
07-13-2005, 05:38 PM
Speaking of Kool Aid and other soft drinks, it's making our kids fat. I think we should encourage healthy eating habits as well as physical activity, because kids sure are getting **** fat these days.

Badsight.
07-14-2005, 12:12 AM
has anyone who defends violence in games as ok ever read the studies done on violence-in-media ?

that amount of graphic images we are showen thru our entertainment has risen Sharply since the mid seventies

i think it would be an eye-opener for people to see an actual figure

we are what we eat, & our minds fill up with what we put in as well

you cant say its either natural or normall to view un-natural violent scenes in the amount that we do & that it has no effect

the simple fact that more explict stuff is allowed onto out screens & into our homes is the very proof that it does have an effect

de-sensitizing

knightflyte
07-14-2005, 01:53 AM
GIGO

Garbage In Garbage Out

zombiewolf92553
07-14-2005, 01:55 AM
several times i'd have youngsters comein my store and tell me they needed "F" ing spark plugs.
I'd say I beg your pardon(I am almost 50 mind you
F ing sparkplugs.
remember when we were kids we use took look both ways before(cursing) now its ever day language.
I believe its everyones businesss to correct kids when they act up.
I have found that a lot of times these kids are in fact being raised by kids themselves.
or give the kid what he wants as long as he or she shuts the F up .

RNZAFJay
07-14-2005, 02:13 AM
Do video games influence kids?

A quote (roughly) from the guy who invented PacMan

"The whole thing of video games being a bad influence on kids is ridiculous.
I mean, if kids took my games seriously in the future our teenagers will be running around dark rooms, listening to electronic music and eating music pills. Absurd!"

You be the judge http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

sapre
07-14-2005, 02:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LilHorse:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
I believe GTA is similarly a symptom of what is wrong with American (or rather US) society: Large social and racial differences, a lot off poor, undereducated people having no chance, a strong emphasis material wealth (the "American dream"), a society with little internal cohesion etc. Really, these problems are not GTAs fault.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, man. Here we go. Yeah, the U.S. is teh Hitler, the anti-Christ blah, blah, blah.

That's all easy for you to critisize from your mono-cultural society. A "society with little internal cohesion"? Name any country in the world with as diverse a population that gets along as well as the U.S.

As for the American Dream, that dream was never about making money at all costs. If that's what you think the American Dream is then you don't know what you're talking about.

"a lot off poor"? Do you realize that what passes for poverty line in the U.S. is equal to middle income in Europe? Do you imagine oceans of poor and destitute swarming over America while the small number of rich live baracaded in luxurious closed communities? Again, if you do, then you don't know what you're talking about.

I think you buy into too much of what your socialist politicians spoon feed you about the U.S. I live here. I know. You don't.

Now as for GTA...Yes, parents need to be more involved in kids lives and what they see on TV or play.

But let's face it. GTA glorifies scumbags and criminal behavior. Are the makers of the game trying to make money at any cost? You bet yer a$$ they are.

How 'bout this. How 'bout there's a lot of responsibility to go around, parents, game makers, movie and TV producers. Simply saying it all falls on the parents is as silly as saying it all falls on the game makers. They have a responsibility too. They shouldn't get a "get-out-of-responsibility-free" card because of "creative freedom of expression" or any such nonsense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you ever played GTA?

Friendly_flyer
07-14-2005, 02:40 AM
(OFF TOPIC)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by LilHorse:

Oh, man. Here we go. Yeah, the U.S. is teh Hitler, the anti-Christ blah, blah, blah. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, that€s not what I meant. I€m sorry if my post came across like that. What I tried to say is that games like that and the values they represent is a result of problems in a society, not the cause. US social structure is not the subject of this thread, and I€m by no means an expert. However, there are social problems in the US, I hardly think one can deny that. (Not that Norway is trouble free, though.)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's all easy for you to critisize from your mono-cultural society. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Norway is hardly mono-cultural. Take a stroll in downtown Oslo, and you would feel right at home. There are people from all over the globe here, every third school child in Oslo has non-western background. I daresay I know a tad more about US than you do about Norway.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> As for the American Dream, that dream was never about making money at all costs. If that's what you think the American Dream is then you don't know what you're talking about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the American dream is to start with just your two empty hands and succeed through hard work and persistence. It used to be something not possible in the closely knit, over populated society of 19th century Europe. However, success is a relative measure; for someone to succeed, someone else has to fail, or at least remain mediocre. The good thing about the American dream is that I make people try. The bad thing is that it produces losers as well as winners, and being a looser in a society where winning is so important (€œeveryone loves a winner€) is hard. There will usually be good and bad sides to every feature of a society (Norway€s included).
(/OFF TOPIC)

Now, violent games vs upbringing:

Some children will turn out bad no matter what you do. Some will turn out well despite the most terrible upbringing with abuse, neglect and bad influence. The majority falls somewhere in the middle.

In Norway we have a saying: €œThe drop that made the cup spill€. I guess the meaning need no further explanation. Videogames, films etc can be that drop. But it€s important to remember that the cup must be full in the first place to spill. What goes into that metaphorical cup is mainly the parent€s responsibility. Sure, there are other influences, but a well adjusted kid won€t go on a killing spree just because he had played GTA or any similar game.

sapre
07-14-2005, 02:46 AM
I'm pretty surprised that there is so many people thinks child as a "innocent and fragile" being.
Do you seriously believe some kid will go out and start stealing cars because he played some game?
You people greatly underestimate the children.
Just remember when you were a child, you were that fragile and innocent?
Or did you become too old to remember it?

sapre
07-14-2005, 02:50 AM
The important thing is EDUCATION.
If the child get a proper education from parents and teachers it doesn't matter what sort of game he plays.
The problem is with the education system, not GTA.
And you LilHorse, it is very clear you never played GTA.
Because there is no torturing and raping in GTA.
If you want to criticize something, experience it first.

Fehler
07-14-2005, 02:55 AM
As a kid, we played Army.. shooting and killing our friends....

Nubarus
07-14-2005, 03:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LilHorse:
But go ahead, bring something utterly unrelated to the thread into it. Why pass up a U.S. bash when you've got the chance? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif (see, I can use the rolly eyes too, ain't that cute?) Afterall, our pal Friendlyflyer didn't.

I also pointed out that I live here and he doesn't. I know, he doesn't.

And neither do you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it's time you actually learn how to read because I didn't bash your precious USA, just your president.
And my own government as well in case you missed that.

As for living there, I lived in Arizona for a while and I loved the space and the nature but now way in hell I would want to live in the US for the rest of my life.
In case your wondering why it has nothing to do with the people who live there but with the way things are done around there, government wise that is.
Our current government is going down the same path at the moment but luckely the people here finally woke up so next election they will be out of their seat of power.

And saying that in NYC alone live more nationalities then in any European country is pretty arrogant since you cannot possibly know that for sure, as well as saying that they are getting along better then in any country in the whole world.

In case your getting worked up about that statement I am not saying your right or wrong about it but I just point out that it's a bit arrogant to say it.

Viking-S
07-14-2005, 03:19 AM
Every child born into this world is a clean sheet of paper, everything that this child experiences is written on that paper, the rules and boundaries it encounters in family and society will eventually be its own. This is what we call culture and is a little bit different in various parts of the world but the method of getting there is the same all over the world, upbringing and education!

The key word in upbringing is consistency, if the values in real world differ from the values grownups teach, or the youngsters find in the fantasy world of e.g. video games, the double standard will bring chaos and distrust of the grownup world.

Can children tell fantasy from reality? No they can€t! This is a phenomenon we use in order to educate the youngsters. And it is the guardian€s and the society€s duty to protect them while they have this €œflaw€, the length of this period in life is different in various cultures and individuals but a good estimation is that this period in life is over at the age of 16 to 18.
This is also, by no chance, the age when most cultures have religious rites that introduces the youngsters into grown up society.
If anything improper is written on that sheet of paper before that time the damage done is almost irreparable and the last person to admit the faulty behaviour that could be he result of this damage is the victim himself as we are extremely good at rationalizing.

Take the fight when they are young and you are an natural authority and they still listen to you (and you are physically strongerhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). I did, and my 17 year son still has respect for me and is well behaving. He played a lot of video games in his childhood and still does but the nasty ones went back to the store no matter what.
Today he has no problem to understand why.
As for the nude part, us being Swedish we don€t have a problem with that. I check his computer from time to time and have found that he is a healthy heterosexual. To me it wouldn€t have changed anything if he was gay but it would have been a complication in life for him.

sapre
07-14-2005, 03:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viking-S:
Every child born into this world is a clean sheet of paper, everything that this child experiences is written on that paper, the rules and boundaries it encounters in family and society will eventually be its own. This is what we call culture and is a little bit different in various parts of the world but the method of getting there is the same all over the world, upbringing and education!

The key word in upbringing is consistency, if the values in real world differ from the values grownups teach, or the youngsters find in the fantasy world of e.g. video games, the double standard will bring chaos and distrust of the grownup world.

Can children tell fantasy from reality? No they can€t! This is a phenomenon we use in order to educate the youngsters. And it is the guardian€s and the society€s duty to protect them while they have this €œflaw€, the length of this period in life is different in various cultures and individuals but a good estimation is that this period in life is over at the age of 16 to 18.
This is also, by no chance, the age when most cultures have religious rites that introduces the youngsters into grown up society.
If anything improper is written on that sheet of paper before that time the damage done is almost irreparable and the last person to admit the faulty behaviour that could be he result of this damage is the victim himself as we are extremely good at rationalizing.

Take the fight when they are young and you are an natural authority and they still listen to you (and you are physically strongerhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). I did, and my 17 year son still has respect for me and is well behaving. He played a lot of video games in his childhood and still does but the nasty ones went back to the store no matter what.
Today he has no problem to understand why.
As for the nude part, us being Swedish we don€t have a problem with that. I check his computer from time to time and have found that he is a healthy heterosexual. To me it wouldn€t have changed anything if he was gay but it would have been a complication in life for him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offense, but you actually invade the privacy of your son!?

sapre
07-14-2005, 03:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viking-S:

Can children tell fantasy from reality? No they can€t! This is a phenomenon we use in order to educate the youngsters. And it is the guardian€s and the society€s duty to protect them while they have this €œflaw€, the length of this period in life is different in various cultures and individuals but a good estimation is that this period in life is over at the age of 16 to 18.
This is also, by no chance, the age when most cultures have religious rites that introduces the youngsters into grown up society.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell me, when you were a child, did you thought superman was real?
Or when you saw a movie like Star Wars did you thought that as a real event?
I didn't, and I don't remember my parents telling me "this is a fantasy not real".
I read about some incidents where a child jumped off from a roof with towel on his back thinking he's superman and can fly, but I think that sort of case is rare.

arcadeace
07-14-2005, 03:45 AM
Well I appreciate your response Friendlyflyer. Too many times we€re the scapegoat for all the ills, regardless of the subject. Some guys need to chill.

As for the American dream I agree with you in part. It doesn€t €˜produce€ losers in that for every winner one has lost. Many can win. Its relative as to how much. I think the fact we€ve seriously veered from such a philosophy is responsible for producing fewer winners.

There are social problems in the US. In some respects more than any other democracy, in some less, I think. As bad as it is here, to say games like GTA is a result of our problems€¦ maybe, not excluding the makers€ responsibility. But nobody said GTA was the cause, only one of a multitude of contributing causes. As has been stated here, every factor feeds off every other.

I completely agree first and foremost its parents€ responsibility. As far as €œeducation€ goes it does depend on what you mean mate, that€s quite a subject here in the US. Without values to respect human dignity and what is truly good, kids and adults can learn all they want yet never understand a thing.

Personally I don€t want this stuff banned; I don€t want a government with such power. But there are big problems and folks better get their act together or life€s quality will degrade, while some fill their pockets.

SeaFireLIV
07-14-2005, 03:49 AM
Sapre, are you just saying what you think and just from your own personal experience?

Children up to the age of 10 can and DO blurr the line between reality and fantasy. I know I did. I still get reminded by my brothers and sisters about the time I insited I saw Superman flying past our back yard, I even get reminded about the time I saw a ghost when I was around 4/5.

As a parent (if you are a parent) you`ll remember when your young child asked if Superman was real after watching the TV, or if monsters really hid in the wardrobe waiting to get him/her at night. How many times have children needed comforting when they go to bed because they`re scared - not of thieves- but of some fantasy thing getting them.

My daughter burst our plastic water pond pool because she wanted to see it fly away like it does in the cartoons. All she did was cause a mess. She said she was really dissappointed that it didn`t fly away going `blllpppp!` http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Sapre, you remind me a little of my sister. She had all these `theories` from college and books on how people should look after children and she got quite self righteous about it, but she had no real-life knowledge. Eventually, she discovered it wasn`t quite the same in reality.

No one can ever really understand until they have children of their and experince it (with the possible exception if you have to look after a very young, brother or sister, as I did).

Friendly_flyer
07-14-2005, 04:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sapre:
Tell me, when you were a child, did you thought superman was real?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would depend on the age, wouldn't it?

Believing is a rather complex thing. Ask any priest. It's not simply a matter of on/off. I remember very well one episode from when I was about 5. A friend of mine and I found a small cave/opening between some big rocks, and went searching for angels (laugh all you want). Naturally, I knew very well there were no such things as winged people with white robes, but still that angel search was very real to me. Children are like that; things can be true and not be true at the same time. With increasing knowledge of the world it's easier to discern what belong in one category or the other, and with onset of puberty, the "make believe" world of children disappears. Only a shadow of it remain in some adults, allowing them to enjoy other "make believe" things, like playing IL2
;-)

sapre
07-14-2005, 04:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Sapre, are you just saying what you think and just from your own personal experience?

Children up to the age of 10 can and DO blurr the line between reality and fantasy. I know I did. I still get reminded by my brothers and sisters about the time I insited I saw Superman flying past our back yard, I even get reminded about the time I saw a ghost when I was around 4/5.

As a parent (if you are a parent) you`ll remember when your young child asked if Superman was real after watching the TV, or if monsters really hid in the wardrobe waiting to get him/her at night. How many times have children needed comforting when they go to bed because they`re scared - not of thieves- but of some fantasy thing getting them.

My daughter burst our plastic water pond pool because she wanted to see it fly away like it does in the cartoons. All she did was cause a mess. She said she was really dissappointed that it didn`t fly away going `blllpppp!` http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Sapre, you remind me a little of my sister. She had all these `theories` from college and books on how people should look after children and she got quite self righteous about it, but she had no real-life knowledge. Eventually, she discovered it wasn`t quite the same in reality.

No one can ever really understand until they have children of their and experince it (with the possible exception if you have to look after a very young, brother or sister, as I did). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it's just my opinion.
I don't have much memory about when I was really young, maybe I'll have to ask my parents.

Viking-S
07-14-2005, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No offense, but you actually invade the privacy of your son!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offence taken! Yes I did but this is something you do as a parent, less and less as they grow up and you see that they can be trusted. I €œspied€ on him as he walked home alone from preschool for the first time, I search thru his pocket for cigarettes from time to time and I check files on his computer but I never open his mail or e-mail.
It is my responsibility to know what and how he is doing.

RNZAFJay
07-14-2005, 04:56 AM
Good on ya Viking. Privacy is a funny thing, the kids should diffenetly have some, but not be let loose.

Sometimes I see some of my 15 year old students smoking and loitering when Im out at 10pm on a Wedenesday night! Who the hell is looking after them?

When I was a teen my parents and I had a good understanding. I wasnt perfect, I went to parties, smoked once or twice, but my parents always kept tabs on where I was and I had a curphew. The more I behaved and show I could keep myself in line, the more freedom they gave me.

Hell, if I studied hard my parents would even let me go to a "gathering" at my mates house and a few beers as long as I could prove another responcible adult was there (which wasnt hard, my freinds parents all knew my parents). I felt no hard feelings about my parents keeping tabs on me and I knew if I proved to them I could be trusted, they would back off.

Badsight.
07-14-2005, 05:03 AM
you cant feed kids hours of GTA entertainment & expect them to produce the same standard of behaviour that your great-grandparents got from theirs

take a look at ANY GTA forum on the I-net

what standard of help & discussion do you see there ?

Bearcat99
07-14-2005, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viking-S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No offense, but you actually invade the privacy of your son!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offence taken! Yes I did but this is something you do as a parent, less and less as they grow up and you see that they can be trusted. I €œspied€ on him as he walked home alone from preschool for the first time, I search thru his pocket for cigarettes from time to time and I check files on his computer but I never open his mail or e-mail.
It is my responsibility to know what and how he is doing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN!!! I tell my 15 year old daughter that her right to privacy ends where my responsibility as a parent begins...... in other words.. she has no privacy AFAIC... now I wont go rambling through her stuff willy nilly... but I check out her CDs, her emails, the history on her PC and who she talks to on the phone... youre d@mn skippy..... That is MY daughter... and no right to privacy advocate or lawyer or other bozo is going to do what I do or care as much.....

I had no privacy..... when my dad found some herb in a little box I had hidden in my room he beat the cr@p out of me and rightfully so......
If you love your kids..... you better invade their privacy... especially in today's world...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

It's funny... you never hear an adult say to their parents..."Thanks mom and dad for letting me have all the freedom I wanted while growing up....." It's always..... "Thanks dad for putting your foot up my @ss and keeping me in line..." (At least that was my line...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif) or "Thanks for guiding me through the maze of young adulthood...." or something to that effect.....

sapre
07-14-2005, 05:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
you cant feed kids hours of GTA entertainment & expect them to produce the same standard of behaviour that your great-grandparents got from theirs

take a look at ANY GTA forum on the I-net

what standard of help & discussion do you see there ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same thing can said about any form of entertaintment.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-14-2005, 06:15 AM
Hi,

As someone who has just played through GTA:SA, I can say it's a fantastic piece of entertainment with a high first play/replay value.

What people do not see in GTA:SA is that your character is fundmentally good; just as one example, he doesn't do drugs, wishes to rid the streets of dealers and there are scenes showing drugs in an extremely negative light. Of course, most people who see GTA as evil have only witnessed a minute window of the gameplay and jump to a knee-jerk conclusion. That said, I suspect the other reason why this game may be disliked by those on the 'right' is that it pokes fun in their direction on the radio stations.

Most games involve killing people whether it's washing them over the side of a pier with a water cannon (an amusing death for GTA) or beating them up with a bat. No worse, really, than shooting someone in their chute or feeling happy that the vehicle they were in (in this case, a plane) plummets into the ground with them in it. Or, for that matter, exclaiming that real guncam movies are 'cool' when what you are actually seeing is someone very probably being killed in slow motion.

I really don't believe that anyone under the age of 18 should have access to the game but it's not the fault of the developer if this occurs - it simply comes down to bad/non-existent parenting. Kids get hold of handguns (as in the US recently, where AKAIK a 3 year old blew someone's head off) illegally - is this the fault of the gunmaker and should it mean all guns should be banned immediately?

Ta,
Norris

WarWolfe_1
07-14-2005, 06:23 AM
Norris, I wished everyone saw things as you do.

Badsight.
07-14-2005, 06:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sapre:
Same thing can said about any form of entertaintment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>i think the gang warfare & crime commiting makes GTA a special case from most other forms of entertainment

the cartoon graphics are what you see

what your doing is another thing entirely

RNZAFJay
07-14-2005, 06:33 AM
What I wanna know is everyone complains about a games where you run around killing gangstas, but Ive yet to yet anyone mention (ok I think one mentioned Americas Army) all the FPS were you run around shotting Japanese, Germans, terrorists, communists....Whats the difference? I never forget in an internet cafe one guy showing my friends and I new new patch for extra gore for "Ghost Recon"

Guy: Look here I can shot this "skinny" in the head and zoom in and see his brains in the wall!
Me: Ok, firstly I object to the term skinny and second, dude you're sick!

sapre
07-14-2005, 06:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sapre:
Same thing can said about any form of entertaintment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>i think the gang warfare & crime commiting makes GTA a special case from most other forms of entertainment

the cartoon graphics are what you see

what your doing is another thing entirely </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whether if its book or TV or cartoon or GTA, a child doing it for hours is not healthy.

SeaFireLIV
07-14-2005, 06:44 AM
Gotta agree with Viking-S and bearcat on the privacy issue. You can allow a child some privacy as common-sense dictates, but at the end of the day, the Parent has full access if they need to check just what the child might be up to.

SeaFireLIV
07-14-2005, 06:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Or, for that matter, exclaiming that real guncam movies are 'cool' when what you are actually seeing is someone very probably being killed in slow motion.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has always bothered most of all. I have often wondered if those people who say, `look at this `cool` footage of a plane being shot down actually understand that there was a HUMAN BEING in that aircraft who is finding it anything but `cool` to being shot to pieces for some dumb kid`s viewing.

One must even speak with respect and humility when viewing such scenes.

new-fherathras
07-14-2005, 06:58 AM
ojih http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LilHorse
07-14-2005, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
(OFF TOPIC)
No, the American dream is to start with just your two empty hands and succeed through hard work and persistence. It used to be something not possible in the closely knit, over populated society of 19th century Europe. However, success is a relative measure; for someone to succeed, someone else has to fail, or at least remain mediocre. The good thing about the American dream is that I make people try. The bad thing is that it produces losers as well as winners, and being a looser in a society where winning is so important (€œeveryone loves a winner€) is hard. There will usually be good and bad sides to every feature of a society (Norway€s included).
(/OFF TOPIC)
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, I respect the points you made with the exception of the above excerpt. Not that I don't respect your views but I would say that the above is a rather naive view of the nature of capitalism in general.

It is not always the case that if I gain wealth it must mean that I'm taking it away from someone else. Wealth is not necessarily a "zero sum" condition where there is a finite amount that is added and subtracted amoung people. Sometimes it may indeed be the case that one persons gain results in anothers loss. But more often than not wealth is "created". And one persons gain can end up being another persons gain, and a gain for many others.

Again the idea that wealthy people only get rich by taking away from somebody else is a simplistic (and false) idea that I think is promoted in those countries that lean more toward socialism.

Sorry to stray off topic again. That's all I'll say on the matter.

knightflyte
07-14-2005, 12:16 PM
"The whole thing of video games being a bad influence on kids is ridiculous.
I mean, if kids took my games seriously in the future our teenagers will be running around dark rooms, listening to electronic music and eating music pills. Absurd!"


LOL Sounds like a few parties I've been to. PAC MAN the original RAVE PARTY THROWER

knightflyte
07-14-2005, 12:48 PM
If you look back through the years you see a relaxing of 'values.' 5 years ago you couldn't hear the word ***hole on TV. Heck I remember watch Johnny Carson at 11:30 and saying the word dam* was verbooten. Guests would actually cover their mouth if a 'bad' word like h*ll came out.

We're all familiar with todays gangsta rap and how it denigrates everyone. We see reality shows that demonstrate how disrespectful and selfish people can be.

These are symptoms of things gone wrong. They AREN'T the cause. BUT THEY SURE DO CONTRIBUTE.

What I've read here, and what I can't understand is that some will imediatly equate a bad inappropriate videogame as the cause of someone being a murder jack booted thug. That WASN'T the intent, and in NO WAY could ONE such source create that monster.

Columbine was a school in Colorado that had a killing spree. 2 kids shot and murdered students and teachers. Did DOOM create them?
Heck no. But I would bet my last dollar that the commulative effect of everything in their lives did. DOOM was their release. In a way it may have 'trained' them, but IT DIDN'T cause them to be murderers.

willyvic
07-14-2005, 01:34 PM
Bearcat99<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">AMEN!!! I tell my 15 year old daughter that her right to privacy ends where my responsibility as a parent begins...... in other words.. she has no privacy AFAIC... now I wont go rambling through her stuff willy nilly... but I check out her CDs, her emails, the history on her PC and who she talks to on the phone... youre d@mn skippy..... That is MY daughter... and no right to privacy advocate or lawyer or other bozo is going to do what I do or care as much.....

I had no privacy..... when my dad found some herb in a little box I had hidden in my room he beat the cr@p out of me and rightfully so......
If you love your kids..... you better invade their privacy... especially in today's world......

It's funny... you never hear an adult say to their parents..."Thanks mom and dad for letting me have all the freedom I wanted while growing up....." It's always..... "Thanks dad for putting your foot up my @ss and keeping me in line..." (At least that was my line...... ) or "Thanks for guiding me through the maze of young adulthood...." or something to that effect..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Viking-S <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No offence taken! Yes I did but this is something you do as a parent, less and less as they grow up and you see that they can be trusted. I €œspied€ on him as he walked home alone from preschool for the first time, I search thru his pocket for cigarettes from time to time and I check files on his computer but I never open his mail or e-mail.
It is my responsibility to know what and how he is doing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I whole heartedly agree. And I have been known to remove doors when warrented. Knowing who, what, where, and when is vitally important when bringing up children.

Capt.England
07-14-2005, 04:51 PM
It looks like that I should hand myself in to the cops as most of you guys think that because I watched video nasties as a kid, and play violent computer games then I am a mad axeman waiting to murder you all! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I tell you what, lets pass laws in our country's that make everyone have a micro-chip implant inside their head, that stops us from doing any crime, thinking about crime, or stops us from questioning our superiors and betters.

Bad things do happen. Sorry to say, but thats life and everyone should be shown right from wrong. If you keep all the bad from a child, what would happen if a very bad person somehow got to your child? Because you have kept all bad from your child, then your child would not know how dangerous a very bad person was and would happy go with this person to maybe, their death.

I maybe over the top, but from what I saw as a child from horror films, made me be more careful when I went out, and also made me read the signs when, say, a English pub turns nasty.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-14-2005, 05:14 PM
Hi,

I find GTA being attacked for violence and "sexual content" (even though it has an 18 rating in the UK) as particularly ironic considering that much of the heat is coming from the country with, arguably, the largest porn industry in the world (a point made even more ironic by one of GTA's in-game radio stations pointing this out also), not to mention, arguably, the largest "gangsta" culture anywhere.

People never tackle a problem at source, do they? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris