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Shadowwolf1887
03-27-2007, 04:43 PM
S! all,
OK, my issue with the F4U in this game is it's acceleration. I have tried many different prop pitch & Rad settings but the fact remains that, you cannot out dive the IJA aircraft in this game.

The tactics used by the USMC pilots was that if a Zero got on you tail, roll over & dive out. Use your plane's weight & power to gain speed & extend away from your attacker.

The F4U-1D should be able to extend away from Zero's and the Ki's.
As it stands now, the only way to properly extend away from a Zero or any of the later IJA planes is to hit close to the breaking speed on the F4U, 490-500mph. But even at this speed the KI-84 will catch the F4U.
The VNE on the F4U in RL was 845kmh if you hit 810 in the game, your wings are gone.

The F4U was one of the best planes of WW-II & it should be as such in this game.
I hope that there will be some changes for the Corsair in the next patch.

S!

Shadowwolf1887
03-27-2007, 04:43 PM
S! all,
OK, my issue with the F4U in this game is it's acceleration. I have tried many different prop pitch & Rad settings but the fact remains that, you cannot out dive the IJA aircraft in this game.

The tactics used by the USMC pilots was that if a Zero got on you tail, roll over & dive out. Use your plane's weight & power to gain speed & extend away from your attacker.

The F4U-1D should be able to extend away from Zero's and the Ki's.
As it stands now, the only way to properly extend away from a Zero or any of the later IJA planes is to hit close to the breaking speed on the F4U, 490-500mph. But even at this speed the KI-84 will catch the F4U.
The VNE on the F4U in RL was 845kmh if you hit 810 in the game, your wings are gone.

The F4U was one of the best planes of WW-II & it should be as such in this game.
I hope that there will be some changes for the Corsair in the next patch.

S!

VW-IceFire
03-27-2007, 05:19 PM
Acceleration does feel a little low but I don't think its that low in the dive. Are you diving away from pilots online or AI pilots? The AI have a few advantages that regular pilots don't have...they play by the same FM rules according to the developers but I think they take a few shortcuts across the rules too. Still..diving technique is just as important as any other flying skill and despite any advantage the AI might have over real pilots online I would suggest you tune your diving to give you the best possible dive.

Most people do what you do...the critical speed dive to get away as quickly as possible. This is usually a really steep angle. I've learned from experience that this isn't always the best.

If its a F4U against a Zero then you know your level speed is already higher than his. If its a Ki-84 then this is more of a weight thing but in either case if you do a steep dive and level out flat at the bottom then you've not done yourself any favours. Even a pilot online can use this against you...because he can cut the corner on your steep dive and pull out by doing a more shallow dive and intersecting you at the bottom with not quite as much speed but having traversed a shorter distance.

So the next time you get into trouble...roll away (mostly as a direction changing evasive) and then level out in a 45 degree angle or so (rather than a 65 or 80 degree as some do). Close the radiator. Ensure that you trim the nose down as the Corsair starts to want to go nose high and also check your slip indicator to make sure the ball is centered. Gently pull out at the bottom. You should be doing a good 650kph IAS at the bottom and the Zero should be slightly above you and well behind without any angle to cut you off on.

If its a stubborn AI then you'll have to run for a while more and reduce any possible angle advantage until you're well clear before you climb back up and try again. If its a proper engagement then the Zero should become the next target of another Corsair (as often happened in multiplane engagements with USN fighters as USN pilots were very good at team tactics by necessity) and you can shorten your run and climb out.

I do agree...definitely one of the best planes in real life and one of the better ones in the game as well and thats including against some really impressive foes that it never had to fight against. Consider that the same plane can carry 4000lbs of bombs or a small fleet of rockets or alternatively fight on even terms with the best European fighters at medium to high altitude and then also include an impressive range and you have a fantastic weapon. In the old Server Wars competition the Corsair was invaluable because of the huge bomb load and high speed capability for knocking out the other teams carrier targets.

Good luck!

AKA_TAGERT
03-27-2007, 05:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shadowwolf1887:
I have tried many different prop pitch & Rad settings but the fact remains that, you cannot out dive the IJA aircraft in this game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Got Track(s)?

PBNA-Boosher
03-27-2007, 06:00 PM
You don't play online, do you?

Shadowwolf1887
03-27-2007, 11:37 PM
____________________________________________
AKA_TAGERT


quote:
Originally posted by Shadowwolf1887:
I have tried many different prop pitch & Rad settings but the fact remains that, you cannot out dive the IJA aircraft in this game.


Got Track(s)?
_____________________________________________

I'm not sure how to post tracks on here.


_____________________________________________
PBNA-Boosher

Posted Tue March 27 2007 17:00 Hide Post
You don't play online, do you?

_____________________________________________
About 90% of my flying time is online.
_____________________________________________

AKA_TAGERT
03-28-2007, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
You don't play online, do you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You don't know me very well, do you?

AKA_TAGERT
03-28-2007, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shadowwolf1887:
I'm not sure how to post tracks on here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No need to post them, simply email them to naca_testing@yahoo.com

Shadowwolf1887
03-28-2007, 08:59 AM
Is this IMS_Tagert?

VW-IceFire
03-28-2007, 03:54 PM
If 90% of your flying time is online then you should definitely check your techniques because everyone is flying by the same FM and the Corsair certainly out dives a Zero or an Oscar. Other types you need to check out in a more case by case basis. It would be wrong to assume all Japanese planes incapable of diving...the Ki-61 and Ki-100 were both well known for being very good in a dive and the Japanese felt the Ki-100 to be able to possibly even match a Mustang in a dive.

AKA_TAGERT
03-28-2007, 04:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shadowwolf1887:
Is this IMS_Tagert? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes is this Shadowwolf1887?

Shadowwolf1887
03-28-2007, 07:58 PM
lol, I was on the IMS comms with you sometime ago...
VMF112_Shadow at the time, remember me?

AKA_TAGERT
03-28-2007, 09:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shadowwolf1887:
lol, I was on the IMS comms with you sometime ago...
VMF112_Shadow at the time, remember me? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, hows going?

beaverscout
03-29-2007, 04:05 PM
Tagert, I just have one thing to say, and it comes from Jose, "My Shoe"

Get on coms bud.

AKA_TAGERT
03-29-2007, 04:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by beaverscout:
Tagert, I just have one thing to say, and it comes from Jose, "My Shoe"

Get on coms bud. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!

WHY I OUGHT AH!

Shadowwolf1887
03-30-2007, 10:33 AM
__________________________________________________
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT

Yes, hows going?
__________________________________________________

I'm good, how ya been?
Get on comms........ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif lol
__________________________________________________

Originally posted by VW-IceFire

If 90% of your flying time is online then you should definitely check your techniques because everyone is flying by the same FM and the Corsair certainly out dives a Zero or an Oscar. Other types you need to check out in a more case by case basis. It would be wrong to assume all Japanese planes incapable of diving...the Ki-61 and Ki-100 were both well known for being very good in a dive and the Japanese felt the Ki-100 to be able to possibly even match a Mustang in a dive.
__________________________________________________

You don't fly online much, do you?

VW-IceFire
03-30-2007, 02:48 PM
I do infact...quite often. I spread my time out but most of its spent on UK-Dedicated2 with an occasional jaunt to Uk-Dedicated3 or WarClouds.

Regardless of online or offline...my point holds true. One cannot group all Japanese fighters into a single basket and one cannot simply expect that pointing the nose towards the ground is the "get out of jail free" card.

ICDP
03-30-2007, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I do infact...quite often. I spread my time out but most of its spent on UK-Dedicated2 with an occasional jaunt to Uk-Dedicated3 or WarClouds.

Regardless of online or offline...my point holds true. One cannot group all Japanese fighters into a single basket and one cannot simply expect that pointing the nose towards the ground is the "get out of jail free" card. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wise words IceFire.

I have had many people complain that I shouldn't have kept up in a dive against their (insert popular US fighter here) in my (insert axis fighter here). Every single time it is because I had much more speed to begin with or they dove from 3,000ft and expected to leave me standing.

Before I realised why I was getting caught it was me who did the comlaining http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Some people seem to expect a 100+mph dive advantage just by pointing the nose at the ground. If an F4U and A6M5 at similar speeds enter a dive it will take a long time (in dogfight terms) for any advantage to be reached. In the time it takes to gain that advantage you are in gun range getting shot at. If you have to dodge bullets you are taking a longer route than your pursuer and the advantage is reduced significantly.

In my testing the F4U dosen't break up until 860kph in the game. Also the later model Ki's were noted as being good to excellent in a dive. The A6M zero is easily outpaced by the F4U in a dive unless you are both at the same speed at entry. If so then see my points above.

stansdds
03-31-2007, 05:54 AM
Everyone likes to take a dive in the Corsair, but diving is not always the best option for escape. Japanese fighters tended to be very light in weight and had high power to weight ratios, this can be used to the Corsair drivers advantage. The Corsair is heavier, but also has a lot of power and good ailerons and elevators as well as good lift from the wings.

When you have been unfortunate enough to get a Japanese fighter on your six, put yourself into a gentle climbing turn to starboard (right). You will be able to control the torque effect with those wonderful ailerons and big wings, while the smaller and lighter Japanese fighter will be unable to manage the torque and will not be able to apply climb power and maintain a turn to starboard.

The AI Japanese will try to follow you on such a maneuver and they will fire, but if you do it right all their rounds will pass beneath you. I've used this tactic numerous times against AI and humans. Humans often figure out what I'm doing and will change their tactics, but the AI aren't that bright.

One word of warning, this works against most Japanese fighters, but fighters like the Ki-84 are far closer to the performance of the Corsair and may match such a maneuver.

So in closing, diving sometimes works, but eventually you run out of diving room and on the deck you become a sitting duck. There are times when a turning climb is a far better option.

VW-IceFire
03-31-2007, 09:37 AM
Aye...Japanese planes to watch out for are the Ki-84 and J2M3. Both were relatively rare in actual WWII fighting in comparison to the swarms of Zeros, Ki-43's, and somewhat lesser Ki-61 versions but you should be wary of the J2M and Ki-84 as their performance was up to western standards. Both still have vulnerable fuel tanks but are otherwise sturdy aircraft.

JtD
03-31-2007, 09:49 AM
Ice, there were a lot of Ki-84's. 3500 were built, almost all within the last year of the war. The 11000 Zeros were spread out over four years, and at least in 1944 loads of them were shot down before the first Ki-84 was actually commissioned. Ki-43 were about 6000 and Ki-61 about 3000 total in production, again they saw action a lot earlier.

So the Ki-84 was pretty common late war.

JG53Frankyboy
03-31-2007, 10:52 AM
according to Francillon:
production from April 1944- august 1945

Zeros ~4500
Franks ~3300

JtD
03-31-2007, 11:51 AM
About what I meant to say. Thanks for the specific info, didn't have these numbers.

VW-IceFire
03-31-2007, 02:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:
Ice, there were a lot of Ki-84's. 3500 were built, almost all within the last year of the war. The 11000 Zeros were spread out over four years, and at least in 1944 loads of them were shot down before the first Ki-84 was actually commissioned. Ki-43 were about 6000 and Ki-61 about 3000 total in production, again they saw action a lot earlier.

So the Ki-84 was pretty common late war. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes but do you have numbers on Ki-84s grounded? Ki-84 is definitely an important late war aircraft but they did have many problems.

Neither here nor there. This thread is about proper diving techniques in the Corsair...which has largely been ignored.

MAILMAN------
04-09-2007, 06:31 PM
The standard doctrine for the Fifth Air Force when dealing with a A6M, Ki-43, Ki-61 in a position in the rear quarter was to immediately commence a shallow high speed dive, skidding or rolling as necessary to throw off the aim of the pursuer. As the speed increased the better rolling ability relative to the Japanese Aircraft became more pronounced. Once sufficient seperation was achieved a shallow (500 - 1000 Foot per minute) climb at speeds above 200 MPH would allow the US aircraft to climb out and away. This held true for the P-38, P-39 (only at low altitude), P-40, P-47 & P-51 against the above mentioned Japanese Aircraft.

This is just a synopsis of the tactics explained in "'Twelve to One' V Fighter Command Aces of the Pacific" compiled by Tony Holmes.

An additional tactic specifically against the Zero by a Corsair was for a Corsair to go into a high speed dive and get the Zero to follow. As the speed increased the roll rate of the Zero would decrease, because of the giant ailerons that gave it its maneuverability, to the point the Zero could fly only straight. The Corsair would roll and turn to the right (the Zero did not turn well at high speeds to the right due to torque versus light airframe) let the Zero fly by (overshoot) and the Corsair would simply roll back to the left and shoot the Zero. Eventually the Zero pilot learned not to follow allied aircraft in high speed dives.

Widowmaker214
04-09-2007, 08:45 PM
More than agree with you Shadow. Trying taking a loaded (more than just rockets) corsair off a carrier. Its been this way for a while though. Even in 4.07 she seemed to lack some of her zip. I tried getting carriers running full speed and that helps some. Paul had DCG hard coded for like 40kph Because a heavy loaded Corsair used to be able to take off a carrier at that speed. Now it ain't so easy. So in our DCG campaigns we just have them air start. Sucks but oh well. I wouldn't hold my breath on it getting fixed. And all you'll get on here is "Where are you track files and your letter of from Einstein to prove your statement is fact"

You don't need a track file to know that most AI aircraft can out run you or out dive you. The only time it isn't true are for seriously outclassed aircraft.

Watch a Zero hit a 400+mph dive and the AI aircraft not come apart. Some of it is pretty laughable.

I also don't need a track file to tell me that AI aircraft can pull negative G maneuvers in carburetted aircraft without the engine cutting out.

The AI have different rules for sure.

The only time things kind of behave is when you are flying against another human. Then things work a bit more like you'ld expect.

Not only am I hoping that gets fixed for the corsair in 4.09... I also hope they fix whatever they messed with on the P38.. she was about perfect in 4.07/4.071
Now you can barely turn the aircraft without it shaking like a frozen ******.