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MorTak1989
05-19-2010, 01:21 AM
I just Finsihed assasins creed 2, and wow the message at the end...... wow those people are juste totally genius!!!

MorTak1989
05-19-2010, 01:21 AM
I just Finsihed assasins creed 2, and wow the message at the end...... wow those people are juste totally genius!!!

EzioAssassin51
05-19-2010, 05:20 AM
I agree!

But there are a few discussion posts around so maybe post this there!

Use the find feature too!

Welcome to the Forums too btw.

Enjoy it here!

Charlie_Romeo
05-19-2010, 06:32 AM
dont mean to be an idiot but shouldnt it be the creators of assassins creed are genii? idk always thought that was the plural of genius?

Six_Gun
05-19-2010, 02:08 PM
I don't mean to sound like a stick in the mud, but the story's ending is more a result of various myths and money making disaster theories jumbled together than anything original by the devs. They merely took mythological figures and combined them with the common 2012 controversies many have written about. The only other twist is the suggestion that mankind was created genetically by a superior race long ago, and that has been done before too, in movies.

When it comes right down to it, the game's ending is just a collaboration of what others have done, except for the one small detail that the Greek Gods were an advanced race vs Gods. That doesn't mean it wasn't well done, it just doesn't necessarily mean it's born of genius, at least not their own anyway. The same is true of HL 2. It's a good game and story, but it draws heavily from stories done before, like War of the Worlds. I do feel overall HL 2 has more original concepts though.

I honestly feel the game being themed around ancestral memories imprinted in DNA which are tapped into via the Animus is far more ingenious and original than the ending they used, which by comparison was very unoriginal.

SWJS
05-20-2010, 03:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I honestly feel the game being themed around ancestral memories imprinted in DNA which are tapped into via the Animus is far more ingenious and original than the ending they used, which by comparison was very unoriginal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You forget than Minerva communiates THROUGH the memories accessed by the animus.

And where exactly has this ending been done before? I don't ever remember seeing a holographic humanoid being relay information to a person through his own genetic memories. :/

Of course stories are sometimes copied. George Lucas drew most of his inspirations for star wars from greek myths and religious texts. Even from historical events.

AC2's ending is genius, because no one other than Corey May himself would have ever thought of the animus, or Minerva communicating through the Animus. Centuries from the moment she spoke the message.

death2thegodz
05-20-2010, 04:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:

Of course stories are sometimes copied. George Lucas drew most of his inspirations for star wars from greek myths and religious texts. Even from historical events.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea George Lucas based the Sith versus the force on WW2 with Sith having Red Lightsabers and Force having blue? Sith creating a war machine (death star) and force having to destroy it.

SWJS
05-20-2010, 04:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by death2thegodz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:

Of course stories are sometimes copied. George Lucas drew most of his inspirations for star wars from greek myths and religious texts. Even from historical events.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea George Lucas based the Sith versus the force on WW2 with Sith having Red Lightsabers and Force having blue? Sith creating a war machine (death star) and force having to destroy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Stormtroopers was what Hitler called his elite guard. The three most prominent colors of the empire are red, white, and black. Hitler liked those colors and used them on the blood flag. Palpatine's speech in Revenge of the Sith? Reminiscent of Hitler's rallies. The death star personifies the heart of the empire: hollow. Anakin's fall to the darkside? Lucifer's fall. The Force? Based on the world's most prominent religions. Need I continue?

KZarr
05-20-2010, 02:12 PM
Ok... I dont know how the hell we got to Lightsabers and Hitler but whatever.

@OP It's the same team that made the Beyond Good & Evil and PoP series so they're pretty talented

ThrownInLie
05-20-2010, 04:05 PM
the ending was pretty cool, it was smart for the devs to make minerva talk down to ezio because it made you feel concerned about the ending...I felt bad for him lol

Six_Gun
05-20-2010, 10:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
You forget than Minerva communiates THROUGH the memories accessed by the animus.

And where exactly has this ending been done before? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No I didn't forget that, and you missed the point of what I said. I wasn't referring to an ending as they constructed it having been done before, I said they copied common concepts in making it. Or have you not heard of the Greek Gods, the 2012 disaster stories, and aliens having created mankind in movie scripts? Pretty simple what I said, anyone could grasp it I think. I'm saying no matter how you hodge podge something together, if it comes from ideas commonly used before, it's not really original. It's just adding your own twist to something done before. Like I said, it's not Ubi's ingenious ideas, they've just cleverly disguising those of others.

SWJS
05-21-2010, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Or have you not heard of the Greek Gods, the 2012 disaster stories, and aliens having created mankind in movie scripts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, I have heard of the greek gods. Studied them in Mythology class. The 2012 apocolypse has been around for years, first made famous by Nostradamus, however, it is only truly just being used in media NOW, because we're rapidly approaching 2012. Ten years ago, nobody cared, now nobody shuts up about it. And, no. I've seen everything from probing, male pregnation, bodysnatching, government UFO conspiracies and Area 51, and even full blown alien invasion. I have not seen anything that suggests aliens created humanity, or at least not that I know of. But I don't see how that has anything to do with it anyway, since those who came before aren't even aliens. They're just a race of humans who were technologically advanced. That itself is an idea inspired by atlantis. :/<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm saying no matter how you hodge podge something together, if it comes from ideas commonly used before, it's not really original. It's just adding your own twist to something done before. Like I said, it's not Ubi's ingenious ideas, they've just cleverly disguising those of others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You do realise that 90% of everything in the world has been copied from something or someone, right? Most of todays works were inspired, or I should say, copied from something or some other. If you compare two different things, you'll find similarities and coincidents. AC2 is no different.

The good thing about AC2's story is that it takes and original concept and wraps other ideas into that concept, making such things related somehow to the original concept. The templars are basically a huge conspiracy, all of which have been used before. Even so, the Assassin-Templar War, concept of genetic memory, and invention of the Animus, are all original concepts, based on concepts used before. So I say, why does everyone care so much? Why does everyone treat the AC story as if it's overused? Sure they used ideas from other works, but who doesn't? They still had orgininal concepts that said ideas were molded around.

In my opinion, that gives the writers enough credit without being completely rubbish. If they had just gone and said the world would end in 2012, there would be a problem. But, as everyone can see, they involved the animus, ancestral memories, and animus with the 2012 apocolypse, in two different ways: the satelite launch date, and geomagnetic reversal. They used both an original and typical version of 2012 in the series. That in itself is genius. On one hand, if the templars have their way, they'll control the world by launching a satelite in 2012. On the other, it wont make a difference because the world will under go a massive cataclysm. So not only does Desmond, as the decendant of a legendary bloodline of assassins, have to stop his mortal enemies from taking over the world, he has to stop the world from ending, and all within a period of a couple months. It's a new idea inspired by other ideas, and it works. It's genius. Period.

Six_Gun
05-21-2010, 05:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
Yes, I have heard of the greek gods. Studied them in Mythology class. The 2012 apocolypse has been around for years, first made famous by Nostradamus, however, it is only truly just being used in media NOW, because we're rapidly approaching 2012. Ten years ago, nobody cared, now nobody shuts up about it. And, no. I've seen everything from probing, male pregnation, bodysnatching, government UFO conspiracies and Area 51, and even full blown alien invasion. I have not seen anything that suggests aliens created humanity, or at least not that I know of. But I don't see how that has anything to do with it anyway, since those who came before aren't even aliens. They're just a race of humans who were technologically advanced. That itself is an idea inspired by atlantis.

You do realise that 90% of everything in the world has been copied from something or someone, right? Most of todays works were inspired, or I should say, copied from something or some other. If you compare two different things, you'll find similarities and coincidents. AC2 is no different. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah well Greek Mythology is practically required reading in schools, so not surprising. My comment on it and other common literature was not so much a test as an example. Furthermore, you'd have to be seriously out of the movie going loop if you've never heard of or seen Mission to Mars, which culminates with the story suggesting Humans were created by Martians, which isn't even an original concept in itself. As for the human race being created or reborn via genetic engineering, that's literally been done to death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...gineering_in_fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_engineering_in_fiction)

You fail to grasp in all this however that I'm not so much condemning the idea of reusing common material in scripts, but rather pointing out that doing so is not necessarily ingenious. Indeed it's rather disingenuous, to use a play on words, if most of the content is unoriginal.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...the Assassin-Templar War, concept of genetic memory, and invention of the Animus, are all original concepts, based on concepts used before. So I say, why does everyone care so much? Why does everyone treat the AC story as if it's overused? Sure they used ideas from other works, but who doesn't? They still had orgininal concepts that said ideas were molded around.

In my opinion, that gives the writers enough credit without being completely rubbish. If they had just gone and said the world would end in 2012, there would be a problem. But, as everyone can see, they involved the animus, ancestral memories, and animus with the 2012 apocolypse, in two different ways: the satelite launch date, and geomagnetic reversal. They used both an original and typical version of 2012 in the series. That in itself is genius. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Uh, I think you ignored the fact that I've already said I do feel the idea of the Animus and tapping into ancestral memories imprinted in DNA is original and well done. Let me reiterate, I feel THAT is the true genius to the story, not the other aforementioned rehashed material given a slight spin.

It's not so much the Greek God bit I was put off by, it's that they used the 2012 BS at a time when it's obviously coming to it's peak, and it's no more than exaggerations of what the Mayan culture actually believed in. The Classic Mayans in fact felt that 12/21/2012 would mark the beginning of a new golden spiritual age, not an apocalypse. The apocalypse crap is just the dime a dozen ramblings of those looking to cash in on controversial prophecies, which have been as I said, spun out of control. None of the apocalyptic so called theories/predictions have been validated by legitimate science.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">On one hand, if the templars have their way, they'll control the world by launching a satelite in 2012. On the other, it wont make a difference because the world will under go a massive cataclysm. So not only does Desmond, as the decendant of a legendary bloodline of assassins, have to stop his mortal enemies from taking over the world, he has to stop the world from ending, and all within a period of a couple months. It's a new idea inspired by other ideas, and it works. It's genius. Period. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not sure I agree with you on that part. For one, much of the story is yet to be revealed, so we don't really know how it will flesh out. Furthermore, for a story to be ingenious it has to make sense to some degree. One weak part of what has already been revealed is Abstergo's utter lack of ability to stop the skeleton crew Lucy and company are running. Even once they find out where they are, instead of going in with heavy force, they have a couple small squads of goons with mere batons.

I can see maybe the escape from Abstergo playing out that way, as they DID hit them by surprise, but my God if an outfit as high tech as Abstergo finds some classified info and personnel have been stolen and rescued from their labs, I expect them to go after the suspects with far more than that. We're kind of lead to believe there's to be a big battle when Abstergo comes investigating when Desmond is told to activate the security system, but it never plays out that way.

I mean I DO agree with you on the bloodlines/DNA/Animus parts of the story, very good, but they really need to fix all the many weak links holding the story together.

SWJS
05-21-2010, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm not sure I agree with you on that part. For one, much of the story is yet to be revealed, so we don't really know how it will flesh out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>They make it pretty clear in AC2's ending that Desmond and the assassins will have to stop the templars and save the world. Not to mention they spend a couple days training Desmond. If not to send him out in the field to do the job he's supposed to do, then what? It doesn't make sense that people think AC3 wont be about that, when AC2 clearly sets up for it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Furthermore, for a story to be ingenious it has to make sense to some degree. One weak part of what has already been revealed is Abstergo's utter lack of ability to stop the skeleton crew Lucy and company are running. Even once they find out where they are, instead of going in with heavy force, they have a couple small squads of goons with mere batons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The story makes perfect sense to me. Lucy's crew isn't the only group of assassins, and they're all in hiding. They obviously "comondeered" the warehouse, instead of buying it and registering it in their names. Even for a big company, Abstergo is still just a big group of people. They're all busy, and they probably have all their resources directed at different issues, such as the Flouride Incident, Finding the other POEs and beating the assassins to them, the satelite launch, other Animus research. Two escapees are the least of their worries. They also had no idea of knowing Desmond was training to be a badass, and they still needed Desmond alive. If you had to recapture someone who's sole existance is important your your job and lifes work, would you just want to knock them out and recapture them, or risk everything by causing them serious damage, possibly causing them to bleed uncontrolably, putting a foreign, poisonous substance in their body, and losing research time letting them heal in an infirmary? Then there's the small fact that if the assassins began using guns, people would immediately complain. It makes more sense for Desmond to be a traditional family man, since they just spent around two days training him using his bloodline of badassness.

JohnConnor2012
05-21-2010, 07:55 PM
The 'humans engineered by aliens' theme's been a perennial of mystics (the Atlantis and crystal skulls variety) since at least Swiss hotelier and convicted fraudster Erich "von" Daniken's 'Chariots of the Gods' way back in the early-1970s and that was a barely-acknowledged rip-off of 'Morning of the Magicians' written two or three decades earlier (inc. all the stuff about supposed pre-historic nuclear explosions and rustless columns in Hyderabad, etc)

The AC crew seem to be tapping into popular mysticism / conspiracy theory a little more keenly than sci-fi per se (which often also goes there for inspiration) and unsurprisingly this seems risible to some of us more excited by the historical detail they also do, really well.

Not surprised Montreallers so excited by the Templars though. Can't throw a stick in Francophone countries without hitting Templar 'stuff'. They were a mainly French order, of course.

Six_Gun
05-22-2010, 01:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
They make it pretty clear in AC2's ending that Desmond and the assassins will have to stop the templars and save the world. Not to mention they spend a couple days training Desmond. If not to send him out in the field to do the job he's supposed to do, then what? It doesn't make sense that people think AC3 wont be about that, when AC2 clearly sets up for it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah obviously the main elements of the story have been set up, but that doesn't mean in AC 3 it will unfold well or the details linking it together won't be rushed through.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The story makes perfect sense to me. Lucy's crew isn't the only group of assassins, and they're all in hiding. They obviously "comondeered" the warehouse, instead of buying it and registering it in their names. Even for a big company, Abstergo is still just a big group of people. They're all busy, and they probably have all their resources directed at different issues, such as the Flouride Incident, Finding the other POEs and beating the assassins to them, the satelite launch, other Animus research. Two escapees are the least of their worries. They also had no idea of knowing Desmond was training to be a badass, and they still needed Desmond alive. If you had to recapture someone who's sole existance is important your your job and lifes work, would you just want to knock them out and recapture them, or risk everything by causing them serious damage, possibly causing them to bleed uncontrolably, putting a foreign, poisonous substance in their body, and losing research time letting them heal in an infirmary? Then there's the small fact that if the assassins began using guns, people would immediately complain. It makes more sense for Desmond to be a traditional family man, since they just spent around two days training him using his bloodline of badassness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it odd that since the story focuses primarily on the POE and even Humankind's origin, that you would so easily fail to see Desmond being positioned at the forefront of it is not obviously THE most important character for Abstergo to focus on, and anyone helping/using him to get information about the aforementioned heart of the story. Furthermore, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that there would be a myriad of ways to subdue the crew once finding their whereabouts, OTHER than lethal force. After all, this does take place in the future where security of large corporations, especially one as volatile as Abstergo, would likely be equipped with things like tear gas, tasers, tranq guns, etc.

I also find it strange you think Abstergo would understandably be totally unaware of Desmond retaining skills of the assassin's when they were the one's that were putting him in the Animus before Lucy and crew were. If anything Abstergo should have known well before the others what the side effects and benefits of the Animus were. I'm sorry but to pretend everyone from Abstergo would be so clueless just because they represent the dark side of the story is an ill conceived part of the story and a huge flaw.

Anyways, you have your opinion and I have mine. Not the whole of the story is flawed, but there are serious weak links. I tend to think some just fall in love with a game so much they like to imagine all sorts of ways it makes sense, but in many ways it really doesn't, and I'm not just talking about the idiotic notoriety system here. So I don't see any sense to perpetuating this back and forth because you're likely just going to invent more ways to justify those flaws, and I'm not really interested in explaining the obvious. The core of the story had great potential, but they rushed through with a lot of bad filler instead of really thinking it out well.

SWJS
05-22-2010, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I find it odd that since the story focuses primarily on the POE and even Humankind's origin, that you would so easily fail to see Desmond being positioned at the forefront of it is not obviously THE most important character for Abstergo to focus on, and anyone helping/using him to get information about the aforementioned heart of the story. Furthermore, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that there would be a myriad of ways to subdue the crew once finding their whereabouts, OTHER than lethal force. After all, this does take place in the future where security of large corporations, especially one as volatile as Abstergo, would likely be equipped with things like tear gas, tasers, tranq guns, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The last time Abstergo would have ever seen him his his pathetic attempt at fighting in his escape. Abstergo probably doesn't know about the Animus 2.0, or the fact Lucy intends to enhance his skills using the bleeding effect. Sure Desmond is important to them, but like I said before, all their resources are probably scattered, trying to deal with other problems. It would take them time to locate the group, and time to gather the equipment they need to subdue them quietly and harmlessly. They wouldn't use tear gas or tranq guns easily either. What if Desmond had an allergic reaction to a substance in either of them? And electricity, even in small doses, can damage tissue, still resulting in injury, and they need Desmond totally awake and unharmed. Just simply knocking him out with a baton would offer the least ammount of damage and allow him to recover in the shortest amount of time possible. And AC2 takes place two years from now. They likely have the same things we have today, which means they would probably have issues like allergic reactions and such.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I also find it strange you think Abstergo would understandably be totally unaware of Desmond retaining skills of the assassin's when they were the one's that were putting him in the Animus before Lucy and crew were. If anything Abstergo should have known well before the others what the side effects and benefits of the Animus were. I'm sorry but to pretend everyone from Abstergo would be so clueless just because they represent the dark side of the story is an ill conceived part of the story and a huge flaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Abstergo is fully well aware of the bleeding effect. Yes. But do you think they care, or know that it allows the subject to retain abilities? Look at what they saw with 16. His memories all melded together and he went insane. He didn't retain abilities. It's likely Abstergo treated most if not all their patient this way. And, as I said before, Abstergo didn't know about the Animus 2.0, or what Lucy intended to do. They're a big coorperation, not all-knowing mind-reading psychics with superpowers. Even if they did know a lot about the technology they created, they still don't know everything there is to know. It's one reason why they're still running experiments. The real flaw here is expecting normal people to immediately come to the realization "They're gonna use a ripped version of our machine to train a guy who can't fight to fight." That idea in itself is completely ludicrous, no matter how big Abstergo is.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anyways, you have your opinion and I have mine. Not the whole of the story is flawed, but there are serious weak links. I tend to think some just fall in love with a game so much they like to imagine all sorts of ways it makes sense, but in many ways it really doesn't, and I'm not just talking about the idiotic notoriety system here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I think the story, the storyline of AC2 makes sense. I know for a fact gameplay mechanics don't make sense. Anyone who ever expects a gameplay mechanic to make sense is living in the clouds. My argument is on the storyline, not gameplay.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So I don't see any sense to perpetuating this back and forth because you're likely just going to invent more ways to justify those flaws, and I'm not really interested in explaining the obvious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Likewise. As a writer I don't see any point in trying to make the story understandable to people who will never understand it. It's like mixing oil and water, it'll never happen. I have my understanding of the story, and other people have theirs. I suggest we leave it at that.