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Frankthetank36
11-28-2009, 02:47 PM
I'm using a Logitech extreme 3d pro and I am finding that the play in the stick is giving me problems with control precision. I set all the sensitivity settings to 100 because I thought that would improve my maneuverability and control response, only to find that the zone around the play in the stick made flying way too twitchy. So I turned up the dead zone settings (making a decent cruise finally possible once the plane is trimmed out), but now it suddenly jerks once I move the stick beyond the dead zone (which makes aiming a real pain: I started a Dauntless campaign and in 10 missions I never landed a bomb on a submarine; air-to-air aiming isn't much better).

So basically how do you soften the response next to the dead zone? In MFS you just select sensitivity settings with one bar for each axis, but I don't really know what to do with the 10 different sensitivity settings for each axis in IL2.

Frankthetank36
11-28-2009, 02:47 PM
I'm using a Logitech extreme 3d pro and I am finding that the play in the stick is giving me problems with control precision. I set all the sensitivity settings to 100 because I thought that would improve my maneuverability and control response, only to find that the zone around the play in the stick made flying way too twitchy. So I turned up the dead zone settings (making a decent cruise finally possible once the plane is trimmed out), but now it suddenly jerks once I move the stick beyond the dead zone (which makes aiming a real pain: I started a Dauntless campaign and in 10 missions I never landed a bomb on a submarine; air-to-air aiming isn't much better).

So basically how do you soften the response next to the dead zone? In MFS you just select sensitivity settings with one bar for each axis, but I don't really know what to do with the 10 different sensitivity settings for each axis in IL2.

Swivet
11-28-2009, 02:58 PM
Try using the "IL2 Joy Control", you can get it at mission4today (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php)

M_Gunz
11-28-2009, 03:11 PM
Frank, I had one of those sticks and it wore out the same way. You can try cleaning the pots with tuner spray but
in the long run the plastic wears till it's loose. Start putting money away for something better or just consider
what you pay for a stick as a sort of rent.

You can try using FILTER instead of deadzone and running the sliders say from around 50 to 100 instead of all 100's
until you get a new stick. FILTER will get the spikes down, use 40% or more and see the results.

Tuner spray you can get at Radio Shack but you'll need to open the thing up and get it back together right.

Good Luck, I feel your pain as I've been through it myself. Got an X-52 on a pre-Christmas sale and while it's a
better stick (and throttle) by far it isn't as great as I'd like -- but I can't afford top of the line CH so WTH!

TS_Sancho
11-28-2009, 03:21 PM
I dont want to sound discoraging but it sounds like its time to upgrade, I dont see any amount of software tuning being helpfull.

Maybe something radical like setting a large deadzone and adjusting the sensetivity at 0-0-0-15-30-45-60-75-90-100?

Frankthetank36
11-28-2009, 04:53 PM
Gah... I really like the way the stick feels except for the play. Conforms perfectly to the shape of my hand (I tried my friend's X45 and the thing was way too big, looked like it was made for a 6'5" guy and I'm only 5'4", couldn't get my hand on the pinky button and trigger at the same time without ridiculously contorting it), and the movement is not too tense and not too loose. But I could use something with more buttons. If someone made a stick with the precision of a CH and the look and feel of this thing (plus FFB) it'd be gold. How about the g940 (although it would be quite a while before I could afford one)?

Ba5tard5word
11-28-2009, 05:06 PM
You just kind of have to experiment on your own and keep adjusting it until it feels right.

This is my setup for the 3D Extreme Pro:

Elevator:

22 25 29 34 42 50 60 72 85 100

Dead Zone 0, Filtering 0

Aileron:

27 30 34 39 45 53 63 74 86 100

Dead Zone 0, Filtering 0

Rudder:

0 2 4 7 10 15 20 29 37 46

Dead Zone 0, Filtering 20

Throttle:

0 11 22 33 44 56 67 78 89 100

Definitely get Il2-JoyControl, it lets you set everything in a curve or linearly, which is what I think I did for the aileron and elevators. The rudder was the trickiest one to set, before I set it it would make my plane fly all over the place when I used it.

Also looks like in the Logitech software I set the rudder sensitivity to 70%, while everything else is at default.


Anyway it's a good stick for the price and gives you rudder control, I've had mine for probably a year or so and it's been good to me, still works fine though one of the buttons next to the stick stopped working 100% of the time but there's plenty of other buttons.

Frankthetank36
11-28-2009, 05:23 PM
So what exactly do the numbers in the sensitivity settings mean? Is the first number how sensitive it is toward the center (with the last how sensitive it is at the end of the deflection), or what?

M_Gunz
11-28-2009, 06:24 PM
Looking at the sliders, the far left is for the 1st 10% of stick pull and the slider is for what % of that 10%
results, so 10 would be 1%, 50 would be 5% and 100 would be 10% and then you have the same for the next 10%, etc.

What result is is the strength the pilot exerts on the modeled stick, not how far the modeled stick moves in all
cases. When you go really fast the strength cannot move the stick (and control surfaces) as far unless trimmed
in that direction.

You might be able to shim something in the stick to make it tighter, like the spring.

M_Gunz
11-28-2009, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
couldn't get my hand on the pinky button and trigger at the same time without ridiculously contorting it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is adjustable on the X-52. I'm 5'10" and if it was any smaller my hand would be squeezed.

julian265
11-28-2009, 09:49 PM
When you start noticing things like this, I too think it's time to get (or make!) a decent stick. I do agree that the 3d pro has a comfy and functional grip.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
I'm using a Logitech extreme 3d pro and I am finding that the play in the stick is giving me problems with control precision. I set all the sensitivity settings to 100 because I thought that would improve my maneuverability and control response, only to find that the zone around the play in the stick made flying way too twitchy. So I turned up the dead zone settings (making a decent cruise finally possible once the plane is trimmed out), but now it suddenly jerks once I move the stick beyond the dead zone (which makes aiming a real pain: I started a Dauntless campaign and in 10 missions I never landed a bomb on a submarine; air-to-air aiming isn't much better).

So basically how do you soften the response next to the dead zone? In MFS you just select sensitivity settings with one bar for each axis, but I don't really know what to do with the 10 different sensitivity settings for each axis in IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BillSwagger
11-29-2009, 06:20 AM
Logitechs are very sensitive and i don't see how anyone could be comfortable with the input settings set to 100.

You will need to use Il2 Joy.

You can set each column how you'd like just keep in mind that the steeper the curve the more the input will vary over the throw of the stick.
In other words, you might have a nice even stick throw against the input on your axis, and then see a steep climb in input sensitivity as the curve gets steeper. This means that as you pull on the stick, the input will get more sensitive. This jump in sensitivity can be controlled with filtering.

You can set the filters, but eventually you will want to lower them so you can rely on your actual input. I started with about 20-50, filtering on all axis, but now i only use 5 on just the elevator axis. It just takes some getting use to so you aren't jerking around, and the stick has more fluid movements. The filtering will help with this, but as you get better you might notice there is a significant input delay which is what the filtering is for. If you think there is too much delay then turn down the filtering as you see fit.

There is not much science to it, you can set the first column to 0 or 1, and the last column to 100, and then click 'linear'. That has worked for me and my logitech, and i haven't adjusted the curves as much as the filters.



Bill

Frankthetank36
11-29-2009, 12:36 PM
Went back to using a curve with increments of 15 starting with 10 and whaddaya know, can easily keep my crosshairs centered on the targets. Problem is, I now need to move my stick around more than I would like to maneuver (landings are a pain especially).

Ba5tard5word
11-30-2009, 01:01 PM
Did you try mine? My starting number for ailerons and elevators is a bit higher and I think it means that for small movements of the stick you get larger response from the plane, so you don't have to move the stick as much to get a response, but it's low enough so that I have good control over the plane. It might not be perfect but it works for me, unfortunately I've gotten so many new games lately that I'm really getting out of practice and next time I play Il-2 I won't be able to hit a barn door.

K_Freddie
11-30-2009, 01:59 PM
This is all you need... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Pics/Yaw.jpg
http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Pics/Roll.jpg
http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Pics/pitch.jpg

Freaks some people out, but you get used to it.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

squareusr
11-30-2009, 04:27 PM
The 3D Pro is the try-before-you-buy-(something better)-stick: perfect for people who would be willing to spend more but don't know yet if they will be excited by flight sims three months from now and would then buy something better or never look back to flight sims again. (and it has the best grip of them all)

PS: if you're into prying open plastic encasings and gluing magnets into weird places you might consider converting a 3D Pro to hall sensors, the gimbal mechanism seems spacous enough (the FFB version puts all in the same space!). But be warned that the twist is unlikely to be curable, so this would ideally be synchronized with getting/making pedals.

M_Gunz
11-30-2009, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Went back to using a curve with increments of 15 starting with 10 and whaddaya know, can easily keep my crosshairs centered on the targets. Problem is, I now need to move my stick around more than I would like to maneuver (landings are a pain especially). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you using trim?

Frankthetank36
11-30-2009, 05:57 PM
^of course. but you are supposed to get your attitude correct and THEN trim.

M_Gunz
11-30-2009, 06:47 PM
Right. Just in case checking, might have been able to help.

I have elevator sliders at 46-52-58-64-70-76-82-88-94-100 and 40% filter, long ago was all 100's.
I've gone with sliders in steps of 3 as well until 4.071 came out with handling changes.

I find that sliders too low gives me loose feel. Maybe that is what you are experiencing.

julian265
12-01-2009, 05:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
This is all you need... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Freaks some people out, but you get used to it.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you realise that you are limiting your pilot's force on the elevator to 81% of most other people's?

M_Gunz
12-01-2009, 06:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by julian265:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
This is all you need... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Freaks some people out, but you get used to it.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you realise that you are limiting your pilot's force on the elevator to 81% of most other people's? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But he makes up for it by having the center stick positions at higher sensitivity! LOL!

Jumoschwanz
12-03-2009, 10:44 PM
You should try going on ebay and buying yourself a Microsoft Precision2.

You can get them dirt cheap and they are fantastic quality and precision. I have been using them exclusively to fly flight sims since late in 2001 to the present time.

I just use all default control curves.

You can probably find a few people around that will back up that this stick is unbeatable unless you buy something for hundreds of dollars.

K_Freddie
12-04-2009, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by julian265:
Do you realise that you are limiting your pilot's force on the elevator to 81% of most other people's? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But he makes up for it by having the center stick positions at higher sensitivity! LOL! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not only that.. give it a go... you'll be VERY surprised. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

With these settings you can be 'ham-fisted', or gentle with nearly the same results. Your stick to a/c reaction time is FAST - You can 'rock' the plane in and out the stall zone with ease, at any speed. Not all planes are the same so the results vary. This is what I consider the perfect 'tune-up' for the FW190-A9. From there the D9, P39, P40, Spit.. etc. The P51 is touchy requiring a gentler touch, but at certain speeds you can treat it savagely with good results. The ME109 can be treated like an absolute animal, yet she will not bite you at all.

Oh!! I hope your reactions are just as fast...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

X32Wright
12-04-2009, 11:53 AM
This is the setting I give to people with logitech sticks:

PITCH: 3,11,21,36,50,60,70,8090,100

ROLL: 4,10,19,35,50,60,70,80,90,100

YAW: 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,08,90,100

I haven given this INPUT settings to alot of people on HL. This worked well for most people.