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Kaiser_W
08-27-2006, 06:18 PM
Explain to me how a PE-3 can catch up to an ME-109 in level flight at full speed seeing as that the ME-109 has at least 50KMH advantage on the PE-3?

It gets really frustrating when BS programming gets in the way of historical accuracy. Like an F-ing hollywood movie.

I know the russians are supposed to win, but at least keep it fair.

Kaiser_W
08-27-2006, 06:18 PM
Explain to me how a PE-3 can catch up to an ME-109 in level flight at full speed seeing as that the ME-109 has at least 50KMH advantage on the PE-3?

It gets really frustrating when BS programming gets in the way of historical accuracy. Like an F-ing hollywood movie.

I know the russians are supposed to win, but at least keep it fair.

VF2_Sarge
08-27-2006, 06:32 PM
Its been deleted now...are you happy???

VW-IceFire
08-27-2006, 06:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaiser_W:
Explain to me how a PE-3 can catch up to an ME-109 in level flight at full speed seeing as that the ME-109 has at least 50KMH advantage on the PE-3?

It gets really frustrating when BS programming gets in the way of historical accuracy. Like an F-ing hollywood movie.

I know the russians are supposed to win, but at least keep it fair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Got track?

I know your new here, I'm not sure if your a new pilot, but assuming this was a pilot online...he probably did something that you haven't figured out yet. Its nothing to be ashamed of but there's far too much blaming the game and far to little ownership over personal mistakes (yours, mine, everyone) made while playing the game.

I've been told a half dozen times that I must be cheating when I go to fly on a server that tends to have less experienced pilots on there. The reason being that I'm using combat techniques that most of the new pilots haven't realized yet...so it looks like I'm doing some far out things that are really pretty mundane if I take it to another server (in which cases I'm more the newbie and the rest of them are far more competent).

So before you blame BS programming and Russian bias like someone lashing out at the closest target its probably a good idea to examine the whole situation.

I'm betting he had more energy than you did...top speed is irrelevant in some cases. Acceleration or energy differential are sometimes make or break. The P-47 is for instance one of the fastest fighters in the game and yet most new pilots consider it sluggish...its slow to accelerate and it takes time to build energy advantage but its top speed is excellent. The Pe-3 is a very clean aerodynamic design and it weighs alot more than the 109...so in a shallow dive it may, in the short, be able to catch a 109 despite the 109s acceleration and overall top speed...its dependant on the energy level of the two aircraft.

SO...its quite possible and it could have happened with any plane. But we'd need to see. So...got track?

EDIT: I should add that if this was against the AI...sometimes it behaves strangely and most people agree on the forum that the AI seems to be able to do some unreal things. Particularly if they are set on Ace....Regulars and Rookies I find to be far more normal.

Kaiser_W
08-27-2006, 07:48 PM
This was against the AI. I don't make a habit of playing on line. As for the newness, well, sort of but I'm up to the rank of major with 60 air kills and close to 30 ground kills. I pulled stuff on this PE that has caused smaller, more nimble fighters to overshoot and get outmanuevered, most recently number 59 or 60, a Yak. My plane was in top condition flying nap of the earth at full speed. He cut the 1.5 KM distance in no time. I wouldn't call it a bias, maybe just an oversight.

VW-IceFire
08-27-2006, 08:18 PM
At 60 kills...not bad...still new http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Honestly, if you haven't been flying this game for 2 years and haven't read a boat load of books or articles on air combat you miss many of the intricacies and details of air combat. I don't know them all but I've started to scratch the surface.

I still develop a blank face when people start talking about lift vectors...but I have a basic understanding of whats at play. The game does the physics pretty well...not superbly because for that we'd need some super computers but pretty good for a PC game. Yes there some oversights, bugs, and problems all over the place. Ask me and I can run down a huge list...but none of them have ever seemed to be deliberate to me. I guess I'm not the sort of person to start the blame game unless its really warranted.

I think, without anything else to go on, that you've experienced one of two things. Perhaps both at the same time.

1) The AI and its flight model is a bit whacked out...apparently they use the same FM as we do...but I think that they make some shortcuts anyways. They always get 100% out of their plane while the average online pilot gets maybe 40-50% and the best aces I've seen get maybe 85%. Nobody has perfect flight management (engine, flaps, control settings, etc.) but for the AI it comes naturally. Its a gripe many have with the game...one we sort of hope will be fixed some time.

2) The Pe-3, for very legitimate reasons, ran you down by having more energy than you did. His top speed is not higher (unless it was a Pe-3bis and you were flying a bomb laden Bf109E-4/B) at any altitude but if he had to drop his altitude to attack you...then he's built up some considerable speed. The Pe-3 is a very clean aerodynamic design as mentioned before. If you fly either the Pe-2 or Pe-3 in 4.05, you'll notice that if you pull back on the stick hard it will stall fairly easily. Landing speeds are high as well. Basically is optimized to fly in a straight line...so diving onto you is quite possible. Even if it was shallow. And because of the aerodynamics...he'll hold that speed for a while. Other planes that can hold a high speed after a shallow dive include the P-51 Mustang, Tempest Mark V, P-38 Lightning, and to a slightly lesser extent the FW190D-9.

My suggestion would be, if there was just one of them, sucker him in...just prior to gun range do a break turn (roll onto your side and pull hard). The Bf109 has a great break turn as the leading edge slats prevent early stall. If he follows you...then the next thing to do is to lighten that break turn until its a more sustained turn and start circling until you're behind and can shoot at him. Because of the high speed design...he can't turn well for long. He can turn...but that turn will bleed his energy/speed quickly and suddenly that straight line advantage becomes a huge weakness. The AI isn't good enough to understand that and break off so he'll follow you and thats when you get him!

mortoma1958
08-27-2006, 10:26 PM
Please tell me which model Me-109 so I can go into QMB and test this myself. I spend half the time reading stuff in forums like this and then going into the game to see if whines/rants ( or legit complaints ) have any foundation. This is a hobby of mine.

Kaiser_W
08-28-2006, 12:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
At 60 kills...not bad...still new http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Honestly, if you haven't been flying this game for 2 years and haven't read a boat load of books or articles on air combat you miss many of the intricacies and details of air combat. I don't know them all but I've started to scratch the surface.

I still develop a blank face when people start talking about lift vectors...but I have a basic understanding of whats at play. The game does the physics pretty well...not superbly because for that we'd need some super computers but pretty good for a PC game. Yes there some oversights, bugs, and problems all over the place. Ask me and I can run down a huge list...but none of them have ever seemed to be deliberate to me. I guess I'm not the sort of person to start the blame game unless its really warranted.

I think, without anything else to go on, that you've experienced one of two things. Perhaps both at the same time.

1) The AI and its flight model is a bit whacked out...apparently they use the same FM as we do...but I think that they make some shortcuts anyways. They always get 100% out of their plane while the average online pilot gets maybe 40-50% and the best aces I've seen get maybe 85%. Nobody has perfect flight management (engine, flaps, control settings, etc.) but for the AI it comes naturally. Its a gripe many have with the game...one we sort of hope will be fixed some time.

2) The Pe-3, for very legitimate reasons, ran you down by having more energy than you did. His top speed is not higher (unless it was a Pe-3bis and you were flying a bomb laden Bf109E-4/B) at any altitude but if he had to drop his altitude to attack you...then he's built up some considerable speed. The Pe-3 is a very clean aerodynamic design as mentioned before. If you fly either the Pe-2 or Pe-3 in 4.05, you'll notice that if you pull back on the stick hard it will stall fairly easily. Landing speeds are high as well. Basically is optimized to fly in a straight line...so diving onto you is quite possible. Even if it was shallow. And because of the aerodynamics...he'll hold that speed for a while. Other planes that can hold a high speed after a shallow dive include the P-51 Mustang, Tempest Mark V, P-38 Lightning, and to a slightly lesser extent the FW190D-9.

My suggestion would be, if there was just one of them, sucker him in...just prior to gun range do a break turn (roll onto your side and pull hard). The Bf109 has a great break turn as the leading edge slats prevent early stall. If he follows you...then the next thing to do is to lighten that break turn until its a more sustained turn and start circling until you're behind and can shoot at him. Because of the high speed design...he can't turn well for long. He can turn...but that turn will bleed his energy/speed quickly and suddenly that straight line advantage becomes a huge weakness. The AI isn't good enough to understand that and break off so he'll follow you and thats when you get him! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Wait a minute? 4.05? All I've founfd so far was 1.02. Where might I locate this 4.05?

As for the other stuff. I'm not that involved that I have the time to read the intricacies of aerial combat. I got my exposure to UBI through silent Hunter, so I'm a much more a bubblehead than a flyboy. Though it seems the same tactics that work on destroyer also work on fighters.

Bank hard, line'em up and shoot'em in the ***.

Kaiser_W
08-28-2006, 12:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma1958:
Please tell me which model Me-109 so I can go into QMB and test this myself. I spend half the time reading stuff in forums like this and then going into the game to see if whines/rants ( or legit complaints ) have any foundation. This is a hobby of mine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

G6-Late.

FritzGryphon
08-28-2006, 01:10 AM
If anyone wants to demonstrate clearly to themselves if the AI cheats, perform this simple test.

Create a mission with you in a plane. Create an identical enemy plane 4km behind you.

When the mission starts, set your throttle identical to the AI plane. You can tell the plane's throttle setting by listening to the engine note in external camera, and comparing it to your own.

The AI plane will chase you. Run away from it straight, or do some gradual ascents, descents or turns. You'll see the AI plane catch up to you rather quickly, despite being identical in every way.

Some might say that this is a limitation of the game. But consider, in original IL-2 it was not this way. Sometime around late FB/AEP the AI got speedier.

Tully__
08-28-2006, 05:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Wait a minute? 4.05? All I've founfd so far was 1.02. Where might I locate this 4.05? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which game are you playing? As this post is in the Pacific Fighters forum the responses will be based on the assumption that you're flying the full merged version of Forgotten Battles + Aces Expansion Pack + Pacific Fighters (perhaps + the 4.05 Pe-2 add-on) but if you're flying Forgotten Battles 1.02 or the original IL2 Sturmovik game the AI very definitely cheat A LOT.

The 4.04 patch level is only available on the full merged box games (FB/AEP/PF) or PF standalone and 4.05 is only for the full merged set. It's only in the last few patches that the AI FM is supposed to be a level playing field, if you're flying a much earlier version the AI are flying a very simplified version of the flight model used by players (to save on processing resources) and they're capable of feats that no human pilot can hope to come close to.

Kaiser_W
08-28-2006, 10:53 AM
I have IL-2 out of the box. Also in the box was PF and LOMAC. It was a combo pack. So I have IL-2 standalone. Which would probably explain the dilemma.

knightflyte
08-28-2006, 11:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Honestly, if you haven't been flying this game for 2 years and haven't read a boat load of books or articles on air combat you miss many of the intricacies and details of air combat. <span class="ev_code_RED">I don't know them all but I've started to scratch the surface.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I know them all. Of course I know all the intricacies. I've been shot down with every possible one. TWICE!

horseback
08-28-2006, 12:03 PM
The AI in the original Il-2 Sturmovik was notorious for cheating. I was convinced that an Ace or Veteran AI sappped the player's aircraft performance simply by being in the vicinity. This may be what happened to you.

That being said, it was VASTLY superior to the AI in the first three or four Forgotten Battles patches. If you can still find it, get the Gold Pack (FB + Aces Expansion pack) and then merge it with your Pacific Fighters. That will get you to 3.0, and you can patch up to 4.04m from there.

A word of warning, though; the AI deteriorated badly after the introduction of the 4.0x series of patches. The FMs in that series are a Beta for the FMs of the upcoming Battle of Britain sim, and quite challenging, though.

cheers

horseback

Bearcat99
08-28-2006, 12:44 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Kaiser do yourself a HUMONGOUS favor.... First off Forget about the GOLD pack... (Which retails for $29) for $6 more you can be fully equipped.... The PF you have is a stand alone version... and the GOLD pack may be hard to find.. and as I said.. for an extra $5 you can eliminate the whole consecutive install thing and have it all on one convenient DVD. If you like IL2 you will LOVE the merged version.... More choices... more opposition.... and the online play is not too shabby... whatever your tastes may be.. if you prefer a more structured goal oriented style of play then the COOPS are varied and pretty nice..... if you just want to go to an instant shootemup then some of the DF serbvers are nicew online too.... I prefer COOPS though... Hit the Essentials link in my sig and go to the thread linked at the top to see what you get if you merge.. keep in mind that the plane list in that post is old... there are even more flyable and AI aircraft in the 4.04m incarnation...

Go to this site here (http://www.gogamer.com/cgi-bin/GoGamer.storefront/EN/product/001IL2C) and get yourself the IL2 Complete Edition. This has Forgotten Battles, The ACES Expansion Pack and Pacific Fighters all on one DVD. At $35 it is in my opinion well worth it... I paid full price for each add on as it came out and I dont feel that I lost out at all because I have been here for a while and gotten more than my money's worth as far as enjoyment bang for buck goes...

VW-IceFire
08-28-2006, 03:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaiser_W:
Wait a minute? 4.05? All I've founfd so far was 1.02. Where might I locate this 4.05?

As for the other stuff. I'm not that involved that I have the time to read the intricacies of aerial combat. I got my exposure to UBI through silent Hunter, so I'm a much more a bubblehead than a flyboy. Though it seems the same tactics that work on destroyer also work on fighters.

Bank hard, line'em up and shoot'em in the ***. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh wow...your flying the old school version. The original IL-2 Sturmovik? I couldn't even remember if the Pe-3 was even in that product. Apparenly it is.

I thought they added that in Forgotten Battles.

Anyways...do yourself a big favour. If you like IL-2 at all...then get the IL-2 Complete Edition which contains Forgotten Battles (1.22), Ace Expansion Pack (2.0+), and Pacific Fighters (3.0+). Then grab all of the patches upto 4.04m and if you're so inclined...buy the Pe-2/Pe-3 online addon (for flying the things) and you'll be upto the version I'm talking about. At the very least get the complete edition and ignore Pe-2 if you must.

The game is more more expansive covering far more territory. There are so many improvements between what you're flying and the latest that it'll take some time adjust when you do get to it. Think about it. But I would say that you can safely blame the much earlier version of the AI for the oddity that you experienced.

What are you doing posting in the Pacific Fighters forum anyways? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif General discussion is where its at for people talking about all of the series.

As for the tactics that work on destroyers...I'm willing to bet that many are probably exactly the same. Some are probably completely different. Air combat is a very 3 dimension environment as where I find surface and sub surface warfare to be much more strictly 2 dimensional (although the depth of a submarine adds to it but not enough to change my thinking).

Its been years since I played a naval sim...I used to play the old Silent Service, 686, and The Hunt for the Red October. Back in those days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mortoma1958
08-30-2006, 10:24 AM
Ok Kaiser, I just did a QMB and selected the 109G6 Late for myself and an ace PE-3Bis AI plane to fight on the Crimea map. I kept my plane in between 800 and 1000 meters altitude the whole flight. After the merge and as expected, the ace AI in the PE-3 elected to attempt to chase me down. He could not do it.

I was flying full real engine management, left my prop in auto. I attained 470 to 480 KPH indicated as read on the speed bar. I was leaving him in the dust. After he got about 5 klicks behind me I turned around to fight just for the H of it. Of course the gunner hit my engine and smoked it!!!

But anyway, I think the thing that happened in your case is that he might not have been directly behind you maybe?? Maybe he was 45 degrees at your 4:30 or 7:30 position and just intercepted you at an angle?? I dunno, but in game the G6 late is way faster down low than the PE-3bis from what I saw.

LEBillfish
08-30-2006, 11:25 AM
trim.........and in 1.02 I believe even rudder was trimable.

Crash_Moses
08-30-2006, 01:13 PM
ooh...ooh...what LEBillfish said...trim, trim trim.

And merge the forums!

mortoma1958
08-30-2006, 10:12 PM
Ok, I should have read all the posts. I see how you were flying the old IL2 game now. Well, I don't remember if the PE-3 was faster than is supposed to be in the old game or not. But I do know that the G6 Late leaves it in the dust in the newer versions as I mentioned in my other post in here.

D-Mentier
08-31-2006, 07:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF2_Sarge:
"л?²нÑ"' руссº¸' с?молµÑ" с´µл?ннÑ"' žлµ³... º?º.

Transaltion:

Superior Russian aircraft made by Oleg...thats how.

Welcome to "real life" buddy, do like the rest of us, deal with it until some one else makes something better.

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And can you say "Crappy computer translation"?

LEBillfish
08-31-2006, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D-Mentier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF2_Sarge:
"л?²нÑ"' руссº¸' с?молµÑ" с´µл?ннÑ"' žлµ³... º?º.

Transaltion:

Superior Russian aircraft made by Oleg...thats how.

Welcome to "real life" buddy, do like the rest of us, deal with it until some one else makes something better.

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And can you say "Crappy computer translation"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I can better understand would you please post your data for both real life & IL2FB Bf109s', PE3s', software development, and aerospace engineering experience & psychological evaluations proving lack of prejudice and bias.

Now, it seems as though I'm singling you out, I'm not....That statement applies to many in the thread an elsewhere who want to when they're not the all encompassing ace blame;
Oleg/Maddox Games being biased
The sim zucking
Lack of factual data by the developers
etc., etc., etc........

Fact of the matter is Oleg is though not biased, has been corrupted somewhat. In that he will on occasion submit to the whiners wishes slightly as marketing demands it...(remember the second he becomes absolutely inflexible Ubi/1c will replace him).....So we get the most accurate he is allowed to give I'd guess, anything else limitations of the sim engines or lack of r/l data.

If the sim zucks so bad why are so many here....Well, because it doesn't.....In fact, point me to one better and I'll circular file this one and move on today.

As to the developers just faking aspects of the planes and such, my guess would be yes. YET for good reason. If being a flight sim developer you must devote your time there, then you have not the time to do research to the degree some of us have done. Now, that's a double edged sword in that since I have devoted my time to research, I have none for development.

Meaning...........You cannot even begin to fathom the degree of detail in a single plane here in IL2.....The amount of research it would take to do what we have would be staggering, often with little or not easy to find documentation let alone compiling it then building a model to reflect as much as you can in a set time frame...........

Don't believe me? Well, I have researched the Ki-61-I to a degree most here care not to know themselves. In fact not meaning to be immodest yet due to help from some real experts I'd feel comfortable going toe to toe on the subject with all others in this community combined. From that work I've discovered many flaws in the Ki-61 we have here.......YET that not the point.......From that degree of research I have also discovered the depth of detail and work performed by the developers to make one of the less thought about planes here...........It is nothing short of amazing considering how much else they have done.

Simple facts..........By far the developers of IL2 are all inclusive experts about the planes, air combat weapons, aerodynamics, history of WWII air combat then most of us can ever hope to be....Ever....They would have to be to have made this sim.

Are many of us more advanced an expert on "specific" topics......Absolutely. Yet I said "all inclusive" for Maddox Games and those assisting.

So if you have done the research, know better, then please send it to them as they have always asked. If you prove out your facts they will as they always have if able be more then pleased to alter the sim to reflect that which you have presented having made yourself more an expert......In fact, they have ALWAYS asked for that help.

Yet statements like "WTF! Crappy work! Biased to axis or allied, etc." says nothing more then it is opinion, not based in fact or research to any degree.......Most of all a lack of understanding of the degree of what we have and what it takes.

Don't mimic some of the old timers remarks here....You'll find often they are tongue in cheek trolls for a laugh.

Gather your facts and send them in. Then perhaps if your work is accurate the BoB series will reflect your work.

Bearcat99
08-31-2006, 01:58 PM
I just love the way this woman thinks..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Eagle1_Division
08-31-2006, 05:49 PM
About that speed thing, the enemy might have different prop. angles, mixture, and the sound of the engine is only accurate to about 20%-35%

Its alerady a great game, but the point of forums, or 1 of the main points, is to find the downside and make a game better.

D-Mentier
09-03-2006, 01:31 AM
Well i meaned this russian thing there that VF-2Sarege wrote which is badly translated, obviously by some computer program. I am a russian spelling-nazi you see and an Oleg fanboi too.

Bearcat99
09-03-2006, 05:53 PM
Now I am confused.. we usually ban people for calling people Nazis.... but he called himself a Nazi... I almost feel like the Android in "Mudd's Women".... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Targ
09-03-2006, 07:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Now I am confused.. we usually ban people for calling people Nazis.... but he called himself a Nazi... I almost feel like the Android in "Mudd's Women".... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
That was a great episode! The end was great with the robot of his nagging wife and 50 others just like here badgering him as they left the planet!

heywooood
09-05-2006, 08:47 AM
"Harcourt Fenton Mudd! You've been DRinking Again Haven't you!!"

VF2_Sarge
09-05-2006, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D-Mentier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF2_Sarge:
"л?²нÑ"' руссº¸' с?молµÑ" с´µл?ннÑ"' žлµ³... º?º.

Transaltion:

Superior Russian aircraft made by Oleg...thats how.

Welcome to "real life" buddy, do like the rest of us, deal with it until some one else makes something better.

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And can you say "Crappy computer translation"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I can better understand would you please post your data for both real life & IL2FB Bf109s', PE3s', software development, and aerospace engineering experience & psychological evaluations proving lack of prejudice and bias.

Now, it seems as though I'm singling you out, I'm not....That statement applies to many in the thread an elsewhere who want to when they're not the all encompassing ace blame;
Oleg/Maddox Games being biased
The sim zucking
Lack of factual data by the developers
etc., etc., etc........

Fact of the matter is Oleg is though not biased, has been corrupted somewhat. In that he will on occasion submit to the whiners wishes slightly as marketing demands it...(remember the second he becomes absolutely inflexible Ubi/1c will replace him).....So we get the most accurate he is allowed to give I'd guess, anything else limitations of the sim engines or lack of r/l data.

If the sim zucks so bad why are so many here....Well, because it doesn't.....In fact, point me to one better and I'll circular file this one and move on today.

As to the developers just faking aspects of the planes and such, my guess would be yes. YET for good reason. If being a flight sim developer you must devote your time there, then you have not the time to do research to the degree some of us have done. Now, that's a double edged sword in that since I have devoted my time to research, I have none for development.

Meaning...........You cannot even begin to fathom the degree of detail in a single plane here in IL2.....The amount of research it would take to do what we have would be staggering, often with little or not easy to find documentation let alone compiling it then building a model to reflect as much as you can in a set time frame...........

Don't believe me? Well, I have researched the Ki-61-I to a degree most here care not to know themselves. In fact not meaning to be immodest yet due to help from some real experts I'd feel comfortable going toe to toe on the subject with all others in this community combined. From that work I've discovered many flaws in the Ki-61 we have here.......YET that not the point.......From that degree of research I have also discovered the depth of detail and work performed by the developers to make one of the less thought about planes here...........It is nothing short of amazing considering how much else they have done.

Simple facts..........By far the developers of IL2 are all inclusive experts about the planes, air combat weapons, aerodynamics, history of WWII air combat then most of us can ever hope to be....Ever....They would have to be to have made this sim.

Are many of us more advanced an expert on "specific" topics......Absolutely. Yet I said "all inclusive" for Maddox Games and those assisting.

So if you have done the research, know better, then please send it to them as they have always asked. If you prove out your facts they will as they always have if able be more then pleased to alter the sim to reflect that which you have presented having made yourself more an expert......In fact, they have ALWAYS asked for that help.

Yet statements like "WTF! Crappy work! Biased to axis or allied, etc." says nothing more then it is opinion, not based in fact or research to any degree.......Most of all a lack of understanding of the degree of what we have and what it takes.

Don't mimic some of the old timers remarks here....You'll find often they are tongue in cheek trolls for a laugh.

Gather your facts and send them in. Then perhaps if your work is accurate the BoB series will reflect your work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude...you have to much time on your hands. Step away from the computer; get out and see life. Its just a game...didn't mean to strike a nerve.

VW-IceFire
09-05-2006, 08:05 PM
Doesn't take that much time to do a bit of reading on a specific plane, gather some information up, and get into the thing. Lots of reading and collecting books. If history and aviation is your thing then its not unlike any other hobby.

Heck...you can "get out" and end up with people just like that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For a PC simulation...its a pretty good translation between the simulated and real life. Nothing better.

LEBillfish
09-06-2006, 12:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF2_Sarge:
Dude...you have to much time on your hands. Step away from the computer; get out and see life. Its just a game...didn't mean to strike a nerve. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude...you have to much time on your hands. Step away from the computer; get out and see other humans, there is a difference between genders....(though I have no idea what the hip term is now a days so call me granny)

Bearcat99
09-06-2006, 05:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF2_Sarge:
Dude...you have to much time on your hands. Step away from the computer; get out and see life. Its just a game...didn't mean to strike a nerve. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude...you have to much time on your hands. Step away from the computer; get out and see other humans, there is a difference between genders....(though I have no idea what the hip term is now a days so call me granny) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

VF2_Sarge
09-06-2006, 06:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF2_Sarge:
Dude...you have to much time on your hands. Step away from the computer; get out and see life. Its just a game...didn't mean to strike a nerve. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude...you have to much time on your hands. Step away from the computer; get out and see other humans, there is a difference between genders....(though I have no idea what the hip term is now a days so call me granny) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go take a pill or something.

VF2_Sarge
09-06-2006, 07:04 AM
Granny (if I may)

I don't know what caused the out break, but ok I guess I deserved it. Don't get me wrong, I do like this game. I fly it 4 days a week online with my squad. I guess its just frustration, 1 person says something its a fluke, two people say it, it may have some life. But it a group of people say something, then there might actually be something there. I don't know.

But its out breaks like that; that cause people not to say anything at all, they just get use to it, get fed up with the tyranical opinions of the Ubi lover; unistall the game never come back. If sure Oleg and Ubi would love that.

And if that were the case than whats the point of having a forum where folks like us can get information and post our thoughts and feeling about a particular subject. You know most of time I say what I say just to lighten up the atmosphere about the game. I'm not really to over critical about a "game." But I guess there are people who are. My fault.

There are alot of people out there that feel there is something wrong with the modeling and AI activity. Most of those people get pretty pissed about it in fact.

But now that I know that there can be no jokes in here, thats fine. I guess thats the way it is.

See boys and girls...your either with the UBI crowd or your not. If your not, well than your just plan wrong; if you don't have anything nice to say about the game....SHUT THE F&^K UP.

LEBillfish
09-06-2006, 08:35 AM
VF2Sarge;

Did you even read the lead in post, the title of this thread, or re-read your own?

Point of fact, when a thread starts of with WTF?! or has it as it's title the answer has already been given by the original poster. That being, they don't know and are too immature to try and sort out their issue in a responsible fashion.

This is further proven in their responses to good solid answers wherein time was taken by others to help them none the less.....Normally rude, their own self believed answer though already having stated they don't know the only one acceptable....As it must be the other person/program/etc. that is at fault not them.

We have gone through roughly 20 evolutions of this sim tweaking it to where it is today.....Yet where is he?....Did you read that part?.....Ver. 1.02......So there is a reason that he, you, and the rest of the peanut gallery won't accept as the cause.......He's still driving a model-T, while the rest of us have moved on to GT-40's.

Yet, you yourself as an example want to simply try and add fuel to the fire by tossing out your nuggets of wisdom like;
""л?²нÑ"' руссº¸' с?молµÑ" с´µл?ннÑ"' žлµ³... º?º.
Transaltion:
Superior Russian aircraft made by Oleg...thats how.
Welcome to "real life" buddy, do like the rest of us, deal with it until some one else makes something better."
OR
"Dude...you have to much time on your hands. Step away from the computer; get out and see life. Its just a game...didn't mean to strike a nerve."
OR
"Go take a pill or something."
etc..

Well, those were helpful and naturally railing on the sim does nothing to help either his dilemma......Yet, you make it abundantly clear your own. That being you yourself have found a kindred spirit in the original poster, his feelings and frustration matching your own.....

Trouble is, it's for the same reasons, simply a lack of understanding. Yet, when the rest of us don't cater to your unsubstantiated whines/gripes/bi*ches/tantrums.....Well, then naturally we're all just fanboi's. Fact of the matter is even though the solutions have been explained, the logic and the reasoning in great detail...........You will never be satisfied till your own self perceived fantasy of how the sim should be is a reality. No doubt with you the unquestionable ace of the virtual skies.

Doesn't work that way, and most likely would not have been that way, and just because "you" don't understand how it works, don't understand the limitations of the sim, don't understand the reasonable process to get things corrected, nor that this series of sims is winding down.........Does not make it wrong. All the cursing, foot stomping, libelous accusations, and incorrect statements not helping your case.

Answers were given.........Either use them to fix your problems or to sooth your angst....Yet in the end that's how it is.

OH!....and naturally that I'm a Fangoil http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Once more, and yes I must have too much time on my hands to take the time, to be courteous enough to respond.........Yet the AI here flies "perfectly"....They do not blow "E", they have the plane in perfect trim, they extend when they should, they turn when they should, their manuevers are at the absolute optimum much of the time (though they really do not or they could not be forced to stall and crash, ever take a hit and so on)........So if you waste E, do not trim, do not set your plane to run at the optimum from moment to moment, and fly it incorrectly.........They will kill you....Just as if online I do all those things correctly against you...I will win.

It is that simple.........Frankly I find the AI here to be nothing short of average as to skills. Often easy to kill, my victory assured except if I do one thing.....Goof up. How it worked real life too....Funny, huh?

DuxCorvan
09-06-2006, 09:35 AM
Oh no, it's a female dude! A dudess! A dudette! Whatever! You're lost, Sarge: women always think that they are right! Specially when they are right!

Dude! Cool! WTF! World Team Footbaaaaaaall! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Like old master Guyhkjh always said:
"kkhyhg hhjkjh hkhkhju bgfrtyj hnnooi"
("Human fecal substance happens")

VF2_Sarge
09-06-2006, 10:10 AM
WOW..thats amazing!! Just think you wasted all that time on little'o me. Thanks. In your long windedness you have convinced me that I am wrong and you are the "Supreme Being of the World." I will now bow to the UBER Goddess. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

LEBillfish
09-06-2006, 10:25 AM
Naturally..........http://www.babesandstuff.com/forum/images/smilies/bow_kneelsuckers.gif

VF2_Sarge
09-06-2006, 10:48 AM
LOL...thats pretty good. I like that.