PDA

View Full Version : 1946, what about 1936?.........



LEBillfish
08-10-2007, 10:39 AM
May sound goofy, yet many of us love the idea of a WWI flight sim. Swirling turning dogfights, light guns and underpowered slow aircraft......

Now don't get me wrong, I think 1946 was a great addition to the sim. Many of the planes especially the Soviet varients I never knew of, and it made for a great fantasy addition to an already exceptional simulation.

However, and since we're speaking of fantasy here, the addition that will NEVER come yet I believe would of been awesome, would of been a collection of "real" aircraft to fight fantasy battles built from say 1932-1938.

Now that group would include some we have, I-16, the bi planes, the Ki-27 and A5m as well as a quite a few others bombers included....Yet the thoughts of slow swirling dogfights in fixed gear wire strung monoplanes just sounds like a hoot and nice bridge between the old WWI days, and the rapid development from 1940 on.

That said, and simply dreaming here, if such a sim were to be made, what 3 planes would you want in it...and feel free to state our AI only offerings bombers included?

LEBillfish
08-10-2007, 10:39 AM
May sound goofy, yet many of us love the idea of a WWI flight sim. Swirling turning dogfights, light guns and underpowered slow aircraft......

Now don't get me wrong, I think 1946 was a great addition to the sim. Many of the planes especially the Soviet varients I never knew of, and it made for a great fantasy addition to an already exceptional simulation.

However, and since we're speaking of fantasy here, the addition that will NEVER come yet I believe would of been awesome, would of been a collection of "real" aircraft to fight fantasy battles built from say 1932-1938.

Now that group would include some we have, I-16, the bi planes, the Ki-27 and A5m as well as a quite a few others bombers included....Yet the thoughts of slow swirling dogfights in fixed gear wire strung monoplanes just sounds like a hoot and nice bridge between the old WWI days, and the rapid development from 1940 on.

That said, and simply dreaming here, if such a sim were to be made, what 3 planes would you want in it...and feel free to state our AI only offerings bombers included?

Haigotron
08-10-2007, 10:47 AM
I have to agree with this one, it'll be a nice era before KOTS comes out, you know, get used to slower and agiler planes! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Don't forget those zany slow bombers from the 30's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

mike_espo
08-10-2007, 10:51 AM
Second! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif I am building a nice Nomonhan campaign for the Japanese. Ki-27s with Sally bombers vs Russian I-153s and I-16s and SB2s. Have not decided on number of missions yet... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PBNA-Boosher
08-10-2007, 11:05 AM
It's not fantasy at all, Billfish! It's called the Spanish Civil War! There's a good number of **** planes to be flown in an SCW sim. There are a couple of good SCW campaigns for this game, probably on M4T.

p-11.cAce
08-10-2007, 11:06 AM
There is a wonderful Spanish Civil War campaign available at mission 4 today - Campaign Espagne by Gaston. It is a wonderful campaign with some AMAZING SCW skins. Play it through full switch (especially no map icons, path, or a/c icons) and it is incredibly immersive. The only campaigns that exceed this imho are those by Flatspinman.
m4today espagne (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=39)
Description:
Here it is!!! The much talked about (OK, somewhat talked about) Spanish campaign.

It consists of:
-the campaign missions, edited as well for single mission play
-12 missions adapted for multi-player co-ops
-all neccessary skins!!!

To install, simply do the following:

-unzip everything into a temporary folder (TEMP, for example), open the folder "Espagne" then cut and paste the folders named "Missions", "Samples" and "Paintschemes" into the Il-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles main folder.

And...voila! That's all there is to it!!

After taking off it will not be easy to survive all the different missions in this campaign.
To fly it, go to Campaign and, under France, select "Espagne 1938".

Do not forget to activate the "play music" option, so you will have some ambiance sounds during the briefings.

In the skin of a Republican pilot you will take on your Nationalist adversaries (Fascist or Franquistes).
You will have the chance to try many different things: ground attack, reconnaissance, fly a captured enemy plane, escort bombers or secret agents, intercept bombers or enemy reconnaissance planes...

You will also encounter different types of planes...you will even find the enemy flying the same type of plane as yours on occasion so be sure about what you are firing at!!!

The multiplayer missions are playable from one side for those which take place on small maps, and from two sides for those on large maps.

Of course, the game does not provide a map of Spain (sniffff....) so I had to improvise a bit, but if you use your imagination for the names on the map it'll all be fine!!!

So, welcome to Spain, and fly well, compa˝ero!!!

Oops..almost forgot...the first mission of the Campaign (All or Nothing) is an adaptation from a mission created by Mad_Cat.

Have fun!!!

leitmotiv
08-10-2007, 11:10 AM
Groan.

Well, the I-15 is automatic as a flyable. As would be the A5M (groan again). Definitely the classic '30's I-16, the Type 10 (but a Type 5 would really be great), as a flyable. The list is endless. Spanish Civil War, Sino-Japanese War, the Winter War. Groan groan groan.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-10-2007, 11:12 AM
Yup there were some crazy, ugly, beutiful, beasts floating around the skies (and seas) pre second world war and I think its an age of aviation that is currently under represented (perhaps for good reason) with in the sim community.

My self I quite fancied Savoia-Marchetti S.55 flying boat (combat configuration)


http://airwar.ru/image/i/other1/s55-i.jpg

captainbong1970
08-10-2007, 11:38 AM
this is what you need

http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v1/v1n3/chaco.html

FoolTrottel
08-10-2007, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
(...)That said, and simply dreaming here, if such a sim were to be made, what 3 planes would you want in it...and feel free to state our AI only offerings bombers included? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boeing P12
Seversky P35
Hawker Fury
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

stalkervision
08-10-2007, 11:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
May sound goofy, yet many of us love the idea of a WWI flight sim. Swirling turning dogfights, light guns and underpowered slow aircraft......

Now don't get me wrong, I think 1946 was a great addition to the sim. Many of the planes especially the Soviet varients I never knew of, and it made for a great fantasy addition to an already exceptional simulation.

However, and since we're speaking of fantasy here, the addition that will NEVER come yet I believe would of been awesome, would of been a collection of "real" aircraft to fight fantasy battles built from say 1932-1938.

Now that group would include some we have, I-16, the bi planes, the Ki-27 and A5m as well as a quite a few others bombers included....Yet the thoughts of slow swirling dogfights in fixed gear wire strung monoplanes just sounds like a hoot and nice bridge between the old WWI days, and the rapid development from 1940 on.

That said, and simply dreaming here, if such a sim were to be made, what 3 planes would you want in it...and feel free to state our AI only offerings bombers included? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


absolutely great idea! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

avimimus
08-10-2007, 12:00 PM
Hello,

I always thought it would be nice to have a Dgen or DCG campaign in which the player fought in 1936 or 1937. Perhaps a war between Poland and Russia that leads to an allied intervention and a German sponsored coupe d'etat in Poland?

It would be neat to have a scenario in which the MS series french fighters were involved and Su-2 squadrons along with Il-2I hunted P.11c's. TB-3s , blenhiems and SB-2s...

p-11.cAce
08-10-2007, 12:01 PM
Curtis P6-E http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

http://www.columbia.k12.mo.us/jjhs//Technology/aircraft_folder/7odd/p6e.jpg

avimimus
08-10-2007, 12:02 PM
Btw. Why aren't there any dedicated servers for Ki-27 vs. Cr-42 vs. J8a vs. I-153 vs. I-16 type 18 fights?

Daiichidoku
08-10-2007, 12:03 PM
it WOULD be nice

but given 1C's bewildering track record...

this is what we would want
beautiful, sexy, pure delight Fairey Fantome
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/JSJ_Fairey_Fantomne-1.jpg



THIS is what we would likely get:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/as31col.jpg
At the end of 1935 Airspeed was invited to tender for a high speed fighter to specification F35/35. The firm submitted a highly unconventional design with a pilot egg-shaped nacelle positioned behind the machine itself. The main reason for such layout was giving the pilot extremely good view in the air and on landing approach in particular. The well proven 745hp Kestrel engine combined with clean aerodynamic shape was to give the aircraft an exceptional performance. This was proved by testing a wind-tunnel model. Unfortunately, this revolutionary design was too ahead of its time and was soon cancelled. One of the reasons was that due to the position of the nacelle a pilot would hardly withstand high g-loads on tight manoeuvres.
Specifications:
Length....................29ft 6in
Span........................33ft
Wing area..............195sq.ft
Estimated speed...450mph
Armament...8 x .303" Browning machine guns


and this little BiCH, too:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/bich17dr.jpg
Boris I. Cheranovsky was an outstanding Soviet aircraft designer whose highly unconventional airplanes and gliders were always very advanced and often came ahead of time. Most of his designes utilised the parabolic wing and the tailless layout. The BICh-17 fighter was started in 1935 and designed around the unique Kurchevsky APK recoilless cannon. Conceived as all-wooden airplane it was to be powered with M-22 (480hp) engine and use the well proven on the previous designes parabolic wing. Two APK cannon were installed within the wing. Main landing gear was to be retractible towards the fuselage. The prototype was 60% ready when all programme was cancelled in 1936 due to yet another Stalin's "purge".

BICh-17 dimensions:
Length.........5.0m
Span...........12.24


this one is my favorite..."g 38 twin boom..BET it would be flawless in flight...naturally, a russin "38" would have NO problems..and im SURE those tailbooms would be indestructible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/g38-dr.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/g38-art.jpg

This project was designed and virtually built in 1934-1936 by P.I.Grokhovsky Design Bureau.
Twin seat fighter-bomber, mainly of wooden construction, powered with two 900hp Gnome-Rhone radials and armed with four ShKAS and two ShVAK firing forward plus two rear-firing ShKAS controlled by gunner. Various bomb combinations could be hung under the center nacelle.
The whole project was cancelled when the aircraft was virtually finished in 1936.

G-38 specifications:

Length.........8.8m
Span...........13.4m
Wing area......32sq.m
Weight empty...2200kg
Weight loaded...4100kg
Top speed......550km/h


but yes, a distinctly UN-FUBAR'd "golden era" would be nifty

LEBillfish
08-10-2007, 12:08 PM
P-26
http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/images/p-26_n.jpg


Well consider what we don't have here, an example above.....The 30's a wild time that many interesting transition aircraft....

Daiichidoku
08-10-2007, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by avimimus:
Btw. Why aren't there any dedicated servers for Ki-27 vs. Cr-42 vs. J8a vs. I-153 vs. I-16 type 18 fights? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

cuz as many ppl who purportedly love all planes, and even express love of pre-war stuff, can simply not fly unless they are in an unstallable mega cannoned supersponic late late late war ace-maker types so they can oh-so historically fight in circles and mow some lawns while doing it

Daiichidoku
08-10-2007, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
P-26
http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/images/p-26_n.jpg


Well consider what we don't have here, an example above.....The 30's a wild time that many interesting transition aircraft.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Philipine AF actually used thier old Peashooters vs Zeros back in 41/42..brave pilots!

JastaV
08-10-2007, 04:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
There is a wonderful Spanish Civil War campaign available at mission 4 today - Campaign Espagne by Gaston. It is a wonderful campaign with some AMAZING SCW skins. Play it through full switch (especially no map icons, path, or a/c icons) and it is incredibly immersive. The only campaigns that exceed this imho are those by Flatspinman.
m4today espagne (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=39)
Description:
Here it is!!! The much talked about (OK, somewhat talked about) Spanish campaign.

It consists of:
-the campaign missions, edited as well for single mission play
-12 missions adapted for multi-player co-ops
-all neccessary skins!!!

To install, simply do the following:

-unzip everything into a temporary folder (TEMP, for example), open the folder "Espagne" then cut and paste the folders named "Missions", "Samples" and "Paintschemes" into the Il-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles main folder.

And...voila! That's all there is to it!!

After taking off it will not be easy to survive all the different missions in this campaign.
To fly it, go to Campaign and, under France, select "Espagne 1938".

Do not forget to activate the "play music" option, so you will have some ambiance sounds during the briefings.

In the skin of a Republican pilot you will take on your Nationalist adversaries (Fascist or Franquistes).
You will have the chance to try many different things: ground attack, reconnaissance, fly a captured enemy plane, escort bombers or secret agents, intercept bombers or enemy reconnaissance planes...

You will also encounter different types of planes...you will even find the enemy flying the same type of plane as yours on occasion so be sure about what you are firing at!!!

The multiplayer missions are playable from one side for those which take place on small maps, and from two sides for those on large maps.

Of course, the game does not provide a map of Spain (sniffff....) so I had to improvise a bit, but if you use your imagination for the names on the map it'll all be fine!!!

So, welcome to Spain, and fly well, compa˝ero!!!

Oops..almost forgot...the first mission of the Campaign (All or Nothing) is an adaptation from a mission created by Mad_Cat.

Have fun!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed there's also a Spanish Civil War Campaign for Il2-DCG:

http://www.lowengrin.com/download.php?view.95

It recreates Battle of Ebro, SCW campaign and is pupported by plenty of high quality 3rd party skins collected by mates from "Il-2 Tercera Esquadrilla"

It's a dynamic campaign according to Il2DCG tradition, playable for the Republican the Nationalist and German Kondor legion sides.

Visit Il2DCG or TerceraEsquadrilla site forums for more detailed informations.

Have fun.

JastaV,
Spanish Civil War 1936-39, "Battle of Ebro" Campaign editor

p-11.cAce
08-10-2007, 06:40 PM
JastaV thanks for the link - downloading now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Viper2005_
08-10-2007, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
May sound goofy, yet many of us love the idea of a WWI flight sim. Swirling turning dogfights, light guns and underpowered slow aircraft......

Now don't get me wrong, I think 1946 was a great addition to the sim. Many of the planes especially the Soviet varients I never knew of, and it made for a great fantasy addition to an already exceptional simulation.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO the most interesting aspect of IL2 is that its planeset covers the transition between potential and kinetic energy dominating the fight.

I'd like to see it extended in both temporal directions, since I think a lot could be learned from comparing the attributes of successful biplane fighters with those of successful jets.

Since missiles rather complicate the whole thing, I'd suggest that the early 1960s would make a good cutoff point, since from then on IMO military aviation moved into a new era with avionics starting to replace kinematics as the most important factor in combat effectiveness.

This couldn't reasonably be done with 3 aircraft unfortunately, but since I'm expanding the brief, perhaps I might be so bold as to ask for more aeroplanes:

WWI
Sopwith Camel
SE5a
Fokker Dr.I
Fokker DVII

1930s
(already covered by the rest of the thread, though personally I'd like a "luft36" addon with some of the interesting "what if?" types such as Heinkel's monoplane fighters, as well as more historical types such as Hawker Hinds and the odd Fury)

1950s
F-86
MiG-15,17,19,21
SR.53
SR.177
Hunter
various La
F-84
Lightning
F-100
B-36
B-47
B-52
(V-bombers!)
Tu-95
Tu-16

etc...

The early cold war is hugely under-represented in flightsim terms.

Anyway, the point is that this would showcase the transition from aircraft which held most of their energy in the form of altitude to aircraft which held most of their energy in the form of speed, resulting in some interesting transformations in tactics, but more importantly demonstrating any constant themes (SA springs to mind).

Draughluin1
08-10-2007, 07:26 PM
Yes it would be nice, though you'd need the earlier versions of the I-16, namely the Types 5,6 & 10. Also the I-5, I-15 & I-152. Other nations aircraft like the Fiat CR.32, Curtiss Hawk III, Dewoitine 500, Heinkel 51 & early Bf-109's would be nice to see. Maybe next flight sim. Have only seen the Spainish Civil War addressed once. It was in a flight sim, about a decade ago, called "Luftwaffe Commander" Presently have a DCG on the Lvov map, with all the skins and substite aircraft models. Is basically a testrun for a SCW SE template I'm currently working on. Basically a hypothetical 1939 matchup, centred around the Madrid front. The biggest decision was on what map to use. Suspect most use the North West Europe map for the Ebro in the northeast. Am using the Kursk map for the blander terrian for my template.

Regards, Warg

LEBillfish
08-10-2007, 08:48 PM
Personally, the 109 no matter how early the varient was such a leap ahead that I'd exclude it. Lots of planes late 30's really started to make the transition....It's just before that I'm suggesting. Perhaps what I should of added as a a stipulation was "fixed gear"...YET, I'm sure there were some non fixed like the I-16 that deffinately fit.

M_Gunz
08-10-2007, 11:29 PM
There is a chance for such in SOW perhaps. They would fly more true esp I expect in high speed
and high alt.

Would we be able to set the rig of the oldies like we can gun convergence, to fly trimmed
neutral at some speed we type in?

Maybe we get KoTS first.

JastaV
08-11-2007, 02:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
JastaV thanks for the link - downloading now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SCW, "Battle of Ebro" Il-2 DCG campaigns uses tons of 3rd party skins collected in separate packs.
Please look into SCW, "Battle of Ebro" readme file for a guide to skins download links

JastaV

Feathered_IV
08-11-2007, 03:29 AM
The A5M/I-15 would have been a beaut.

Also the Dewoitine D500 http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:0kC60acSHlfS1M:http://avions.legendaires.free.fr/Images/Gd510-2.jpg

Not to mention the Curtiss Hawk III http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:3Noc3Ral1eUARM:http://www.fsplanet.com/images3/hawk3v2.jpg

And the Gloaster Gamecock http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:lUHhisfd2kZqUM:http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/pictures/jpg/gloster%2520gamecock.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Fans of late war aircraft keep rolled up socks in their underpants.

Draughluin1
08-11-2007, 03:39 AM
From what I've read of some accounts on the air fighting over Spain, the performance advantages of the Bf-109B, C & D versions over the I-16's were quite marginal. It was a pretty even match and depended on tactics, pilot quality and altitude of the engagemet. Some of the Soviet pilots had adopted Molders formation changes, prior to their withdrawal from the conflict. Unfortunately for Russia, many of these veterans were purged and the lessons were not passed on. However, with the Bf-109E, it was another story. Nasty beast that one. Basically, over the life of the I-16, the power increased by about 12%, compared to 67% for the Messerschmitt. In any case, I do agree, but also consider the I-16 as the first of the "new generational" fighters and would exclude it along with the Bf-109. Therefore, would suspect that we need to set the date to prior to delivery of the first I-16 Type 5 to Spain in late October, 1936 or its combat debut in the following month.

Regards, Warg

DuxCorvan
08-11-2007, 04:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Personally, the 109 no matter how early the varient was such a leap ahead that I'd exclude it. Lots of planes late 30's really started to make the transition.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmh, so so, Billfishie. The Wright-Cyclone engined I-16s (called 'cold nose' because of their propeller hubs painted white), could easily outdo the early 109s and was quite a match for the first Emils.

Anyway, those came very late in the war, most of it -since late 1936- being fought by Polikarpov fighters on one side against Fiat on the other.

There were LOTS of interesting types in SCW, and it's very curious to observe the evolution from nearly WW1 stuff in the beginning (Nieuport 52 and Breguet XIX), to early WW2 stuff in the end (I-16, 109s, SB-2 and non-glazed-nose He 111s).

An interesting site about the types in that war:
http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/index.html

HotelBushranger
08-11-2007, 07:25 AM
2 words: Hawker Hind!

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7928/hawkerhindgaenpgroundec3.jpg

dangerlaef
08-11-2007, 07:36 AM
CCF FDB-1?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b99/DangerLaef/800px-Gregor_FDB-1.jpg

Low_Flyer_MkVb
08-11-2007, 07:47 AM
Great link Mr Dux. Many thanks. What a planeset.

p-11.cAce
08-11-2007, 08:18 AM
This is a MUST READ for any SCW fan...or student of history. In all my aviation library this book is among the most treasured.

The Legion Condor (http://www.amazon.com/Legion-Condor-Luftwaffe-1936-1939-Schiffer/dp/0887403395)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Book Description
This classic book now makes its first appearance in English. Long out-of-print this study is one of the few books dedicated to the history of the infamous Legion Condor, the German volunteer unit that fought with pro-Franco forces during the Spanish Civil War from 1936-1939. Many of the tactics and strategies of the Luftwaffe were first formulated and used during operations in Spain. Also, various aircraft were tested and used, such as the famous Ju 87, Do 17, He 111 and Bf 109 - all stalwarts of the later Luftwaffe during World War II. Many Luftwaffe pilots received combat training in Spain; Werner Molders and Adolf Galland first earned their wings as members of the Legion Condor. Renowned Luftwaffe experts Karl Ries and Hans Ring have brought together over 480 photographs, including aerial reconnaissance photos, detailed unit insignia, and action shots. The history of the Legion Condor is discussed in great detail, including the many personalities, thorough battle analysis, and technical aspects of the weaponry. The result is a superb historical study of the early Luftwaffe. Karl Ries is the author of many books on the Luftwaffe including Luftwaffe Rudder Markings 1936-1945 with Ernst Obermaier, available from Schiffer Military History. Hans Ring is co-author with Werner Girbig of a unit history of JG 27., 8 1/2" x 11" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bcxWaBUUL._SS500_.jpg

DuxCorvan
08-11-2007, 09:13 AM
Another link -in Spanish- with pics of most of the planes involved:
http://usuarios.lycos.es/mrval/GCE.HTM

Now for you, American guys:

"The U.S. volunteer Harold Dahl posing before his I-15 during the Battle of Jarama"
http://usuarios.lycos.es/mrodval/BL23057.JPG

American pilot, Frank Tinker
http://usuarios.lycos.es/mrodval/CGC4X396.JPG

The rests of the I-15 in which volunteer Ben Leider found his death. http://usuarios.lycos.es/mrodval/BLAU1C95.JPG


And for Luftwhiners:

M÷lders
http://usuarios.lycos.es/mrodval/BF109DK2.JPG
http://usuarios.lycos.es/mrodval/BF22105.JPG
http://usuarios.lycos.es/mrodval/FRR177.JPG

i200th_Sakagawa
08-11-2007, 09:23 AM
hi Billfish.1946 for japanese planes was great ****.Oleg decided to add stupid things like Lerche no normal japanese planes like J7W,Kikka,KI87 etc.But its brutal marketing unfortunatelly.

han freak solo
08-11-2007, 10:56 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Hawker_Demon_ExCC.jpg/800px-Hawker_Demon_ExCC.jpg

Friendly_flyer
08-11-2007, 03:59 PM
Ah, Hawkers darling creation, the Hind! Perhaps the most beautiful plane that ever flew!

DuxCorvan
08-11-2007, 05:04 PM
I like Fury best. Very similar, but no ugly exhaust tube.

R_Target
08-12-2007, 06:35 AM
Don't forget the flying beer keg. Grumman F3F-2.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Chino2006/Highlights/F3fTakingOff.jpg

woofiedog
08-12-2007, 06:58 AM
A sim with late 20 & 30's aircraft... Yes! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Aircraft/Fighters/P26From2oClock.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Akron_recovery_N2Y-1.jpg

ElAurens
08-12-2007, 08:58 AM
Planes we don't have already in one form or another...

Curtiss Hawk III

Grumman F3F

Curtiss Hawk 75. (The uber plane of the whole time frame and still a 1934 design). P.S. I know it's an AI, but it's still my fave pic of the timeframe, and it had a fixed gear version.

Hawgdog
08-12-2007, 09:06 AM
Yes, join the Schei▀eflugzeuge Server.
Its Hawgdog approved.

ElAurens
08-12-2007, 09:33 AM
In giving this more thought Billlfish, it may in the end be a fool's errand. As will be the upcoming WW1 sim.

Let me explain...

Certainly we can have a sim filled with the wonderful machines of WW1 or the inter-war years.
But what we cannot do is force the "War Clouds" mindset out of the gamers. What I mean by this is that from the outset of aerial combat, up through the early months of WW2(even longer for the Japanese) the dominate tactical doctrine was the dogfight. An honourable, mano-a-mano style that I enjoy far more than the later war "Boom and Zoom" tactic. Now the trouble will be that the majority of gamers will use 1944-45 Western Front tactics in any early sim that is released.

Thus, destroying any historical accuracy, and value, that an older time frame sim should have.

About the best we could hope for is to force all the BnZ players into Nieuport 28s...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

jarink
08-12-2007, 10:16 AM
I really like this idea.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

ElAurens, is it even possible to BnZ in a P-26??
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

LEBillfish
08-12-2007, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
About the best we could hope for is to force all the BnZ players into Nieuport 28s...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

or laugh uncontrolably as their Nieuport 17 sheds its wings in a dive http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.....Fact of the matter is though, since the beginning days of air combat T&B as well as Z&B both played a significant role in design and tactics....To sacrifice one for the other meant certain advantages, YET also short comings. If it climbs well it's slow, if it dives well can't turn, if it tuns well can't dive...On and on....

Yet, every plane has its quirks that give it an advantage........Trouble is in WWII aircraft they're harder to see/feel. WWI they were very evident, mid era I'm guessing as well...However the mid era besides lack of power also lacked something else, firepower.

It's that loss of firepower and engine power in pseudo WWII aircraft plus the wild designs that made the era interesting around the globe.

Bomber wise, planes like the Soviet DB3, SB2, and naturally TB3 bomber wise showing much of what I'm thinking....

Though in the end, as a "combat sim" most of these we'll never see....Still fun to ponder upon.

DuxCorvan
08-12-2007, 02:14 PM
ElAurens:

BnZ tactics were used from the start of aerial combat. It was the same phylosophy: TnB or BnZ. Albatros, SE.5s and SPADs were poor turners but fast and sturdy divers, Fokkers, Nieuports and Sopwiths were excellent turners and good climbers, but a tad slow. Fokker D.VII was the Spitfire of its time, quite good at all.

It was the same story, just a lot slower. One-on-one tactics remained more or less the same till the missile era. It was squadron tactics -the wingman concept, the schwarm, etc.- which evolved a lot. In WW1, without radio, squad tactics were primitive at best, rookies were intended not to strand much from the aces, and everything was rather rigid at first, to degenerate in 'to each his own' behavior.

It was radio, tactical formation and non-individual tactics what evolved a lot, not the 'one-on-one' business which remained the same, just on a larger scale of speed, height, armor and firepower.

Or do you intend to tail-chase in an Albatros against Camels? Then you're fried.

Bewolf
08-12-2007, 03:31 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/g38-art.jpg


This thing is pure star wars.