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BUG3222
05-02-2004, 11:19 AM
or uber german planes
well u all gonna laugh when i say the p38 turned better than fw's and 109's.

because the p38 is so big it must be bad
it also enters a stallflatspin very easy.
not impossible but in real life it could be recovered very easily.

Im just a bit tired about the so called experten who just easily can turn or outturn the p38.

the p38 was a very good plane but just a bit to complicated for pilots with a little experience.

Somehow it got a bad name and most sims generelize it flying as a pig.
I like the il2 p38 butthe turning and stall capability just upsets me.

before u all gonna rant read in the following link all about the p38.

http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/P-38.html

BUG3222
05-02-2004, 11:19 AM
or uber german planes
well u all gonna laugh when i say the p38 turned better than fw's and 109's.

because the p38 is so big it must be bad
it also enters a stallflatspin very easy.
not impossible but in real life it could be recovered very easily.

Im just a bit tired about the so called experten who just easily can turn or outturn the p38.

the p38 was a very good plane but just a bit to complicated for pilots with a little experience.

Somehow it got a bad name and most sims generelize it flying as a pig.
I like the il2 p38 butthe turning and stall capability just upsets me.

before u all gonna rant read in the following link all about the p38.

http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/P-38.html

Extreme_One
05-02-2004, 11:23 AM
Nice 1st post but what's your real user-name?

(not that I actually disagree with youhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

S! Simon
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VW-IceFire
05-02-2004, 11:26 AM
Right now the only issues with the P-38 are the gun dispersion (apparenly fixed soon), the wrong cannon ammo ammount (not sure what it is or what it should be but I'm told this is also fixed), and the fact that the engine cannot account for an aircraft that has counter-rotating props which negates torque and makes stalls easier to deal with.

Aside from that the plane really does perform as advertised in my mind. For starters, it will stall out and do a nasty stall in some situations for sure...but ONLY if you throw it around badly. If you have a steady hand and a good feel for the plane you will never stall and you can ride the edges of stalls without issue.

Furthermore, at about 400-450 kph the P-38 is probably one of the best turners around. Even the FW190 which picks its turn ability up at that speed isn't as good as the P-38 is. Try the L version and use the dive flaps to assist in the turn and you can perform some amazing turns.

Even so...at slower speeds with combat flaps you can still turn this bird which is pretty amazing (given the size).

The P-38 isn't perfect but no plane in this (or any other) sim is and it does perform fairly well. Give it a chance and get a good feel for how it flies.

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BUG3222
05-02-2004, 11:31 AM
My username is everywhere bug322
i love il2 don't understand me wrong
i also played and only flyed the p38 online
plus i'm aconsrcipt on ah (aces high) on wich i fly more than 3 years the p38 exclusivly.
just wanna say im at least not a noob.

on high speeds the fw should outturn the p38 low speeds the p38 should win a turn

please read the link above it tells a lot of the p38

VW-IceFire
05-02-2004, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bug3222:
My username is everywhere bug322
i love il2 don't understand me wrong
i also played and only flyed the p38 online
plus i'm aconsrcipt on ah (aces high) on wich i fly more than 3 years the p38 exclusivly.
just wanna say im at least not a noob.

on high speeds the fw should outturn the p38 low speeds the p38 should win a turn

please read the link above it tells a lot of the p38<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And this is true in the game too. If a FW190 pilot (online - not the AI offline) is out turning you in a P-38 at 300 kph or lower than you are doing something wrong.

Only at 500 kph and above (around the 400 mph mark) the FW190 probably will have a better turn ability than the P-38 and certainly as speed increases the P-38's controls will start to experience compressability and the FW190's will still be controllable.

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lbhskier37
05-02-2004, 11:39 AM
A few other problems with the P38, it has the damage model of the A10. I see nothing wrong with the P38 in this game. I consistantly get more kills than any other american plane with it. The high stall speed and gun dispersion is still a problem though and I hope that will be fixed. Another little issues is that it seems that its initial roll is pretty fast. It should start rolling slowly and then speed up to a fairly fast roll (especially the L at high speeds) I could be wrong on this, but its the impression I get flying it, with those big engines out there it should take a bit for it to get the roll going.

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jurinko
05-02-2004, 11:59 AM
don´t worry guys about the P-38. I heard its final FM will be improved after the patch and we will kick azz of both japs and jerries :P

---------------------
Letka.13/Liptow @ HL

Bearcat99
05-02-2004, 01:41 PM
I still say that in this sim it has a lot to do with the pilot. Anybody watch that AEP track of the P-38 vs the KI? Watch it carefully.......

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Locust_
05-02-2004, 01:50 PM
OLEG give us this one please "P-38J-25-LO"



The Best of the Breed - the P-38J and L

The P-38J resolved the intercooler efficiency problems of the earlier subtypes via the use of a core type intercooler in the forward nacelle chin. While prototypes were being tested in early 1943, P-38H production continued. The new nacelle chin provided increased oil cooling capacity, and automatic control of the intercooler vent, resulting in the full availability of the 1,600 HP War Emergency rating of the F-17 powerplant. Other design changes were introduced, including enlarged glycol radiators in the tail booms, in later build aircraft additional outboard leading edge tanks, and two major control system changes. These were hydraulically boosted ailerons which decreased control forces by a factor of six, and electrically actuated dive flaps under the wings which cured the dive compressibility problems. The latter were fitted standard from the P-38J-25-LO, sadly almost all retrofit kits intended for earlier P-38J subtypes were lost in a friendly fire incident in early 1944, thereby delaying the introduction of this important modification to theatre units by several months. Curiously, the modification entered production as a kit in late 1943, yet was not incorporated into production aircraft for another six months, until the P-38J-25-LO, although some P-38J-10/15-LO aircraft were retrofitted in the field.

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/sigp38.jpg

Wilburnator
05-02-2004, 02:36 PM
I kinda like how the P38 flies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Usberet
05-02-2004, 07:08 PM
I have no problem getting kills with the P38


/flys as Viper54

Gibbage1
05-02-2004, 07:34 PM
Its funny. I have not bugged Oleg about how the P-38 fly's. Other then the low roll rate and bad stalls, I thought it was close. But I have also heard its improved in the patch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jurinko:
don´t worry guys about the P-38. I heard its final FM will be improved after the patch and we will kick azz of both japs and jerries :P

---------------------
Letka.13/Liptow @ HL
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My post's are my asumptions only, and in no way linked to fact. I am not an official 1C, Ubi, or Russian Red Rocket spokesman.

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

WhiskeyRiver
05-02-2004, 07:50 PM
Right now I like the -38 for the most part. I only have 3 issues with the -38:

1. gun dispersion
2. stall speed
3. roll rate (J rolls faster than L ay low speed. The L should be a little better at low speeds)

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint Eastwood

RedDeth
05-02-2004, 08:04 PM
i get the feeling the level speed of the p38 above 3000 meters is way too slow. is this correct?

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lbhskier37
05-02-2004, 08:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhiskeyRiver:
Right now I like the -38 for the most part. I only have 3 issues with the -38:

1. gun dispersion
2. stall speed
3. roll rate (J rolls faster than L ay low speed. The L should be a little better at low speeds)

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint Eastwood<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im pretty sure its been shown that the L should roll faster only at high speeds. The boosted airelons only help at high speeds where the pilot otherwise wouldnt be able to move the elevators at full deflection because of stick forces. At low speeds where the airelons can be moved to full deflection the boost does nothing. As to why it rolls slower, it might be that the L is heavier, with more of that new weight in the booms adding to the moment of inertia.

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SKIDRO_79FS
05-02-2004, 08:49 PM
I know the man who wrote the article bug3222 posted a link to above, Carlo Kopp, and believe me, that was one heavily researched piece done by a man who is very knowledgable about aviation (he is an aviation engineer and an aerobatic pilot.) In addition he used two of the best sources on the aircraft (two former P-38 pilots and instructors) still around. I was honored to give him some photogrpahs from my collection to include in a published version of the same article that appeared in an Australian aviation magazine.

You will note that one of the sources cited for reference is "The Lockheed P-38 Lightning" by Warren Bodie, this is the definitive book on the aircraft written by a former Lockheed employee who had access to the company's archives as well as the aircraft's design team. It was years in research and production.

papotex
05-02-2004, 10:19 PM
Im afraid if you p38 winners keep it up, whats gona happend is that they are gona try to fix it and mess it up.

like it has happened countless of times beore with other planes since the original IL2

BUG3222
05-03-2004, 01:57 AM
i can get kills too in a p38 that's not a prob i can even return home afterward but that's not the point

The p38 just needs to be looked at that's all i am whining for.

The p38 is the only plane i really love to fly so it better be a bit more accurate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Giganoni
05-03-2004, 02:08 AM
Yeah, looking at those P-38 tracks they look very fearsome when used correctly, but ace AI is pretty easy to kill in them with my zero, I love blowing apart the connecting strut between the tails and watching it spin and I rarely realize it when I get pilot kills, but that canopy is such an inviting target, popped a 20mm slug at an angle from behind, instant ai death

Franzen
05-03-2004, 06:24 AM
I found the P'38 was pretty cool as it is. You have to think a little differently when flying it of course and you can do a lot with the airbrake. I also found the guns to be pretty mean. It's one of the few allied planes in this FB that I respect,....with exception to it's asbestos engines. I hope that will be fixd in the patch.

Fritz Franzen

tttiger
05-03-2004, 12:52 PM
That whole "Cradle of Aviation" site, where the P-38 link comes from, is truly excellent.

Link to the site, go to the Main Page and bookmark it. Many well researched and well written articles about WWII aircraft and pilots.

Makes my oft-stated point that there is a wealth of great information out there on the web. Many of the questions asked on this board about history can be answered with a Google search.

Maybe all things work out for the best (or, once in awhile, the military knows what it's doing). The P-38 did poorly in Europe. As a result. when Gen. Kenney begged for them (he really endorsed the use of twin-engine fighters for long over-water missions) in the Pacific he got 'em. And they were perfect for that theater.

I am hoping the patch improves them. The high speed stall doesn't bother me that much. But those nose guns should be much, much better. With no convergence issues, you should be able to just "point and shoot." Even without the cannon, the four bunched .50s should be much more destructive.

Good thread!

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

mortoma
05-03-2004, 01:14 PM
One problem with the P-38s is it's one of the planes that AI handles extremely poorly. This stinks in offline campaigns. I was flying a 109K4 last night and we encountered some AI controlled P38s and they were no threat at all, sadly. They can't give you a run for your money when AI controlled. They were meat on the table, really too easy to kill. Kind of like bombers without rear gunners. I supposed that AI is a separate issue from the basic flight model though. But certain planes are handled worse than other by the AI for sure.

Maple_Tiger
05-03-2004, 02:27 PM
Anyone know if the P-38 had WEP?

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mortoma
05-03-2004, 05:18 PM
I don't think it had WEP since it was turbosupercharged. Didn't need it, at least not the later models.

p1ngu666
05-03-2004, 06:51 PM
it didnt have water or methanol etc, just higher manifold/revs

the stalls are wrong infact 109z has nicer stall, ammo wrong too, also trim is wrong aswell.
thought we didnt have enough 50cal ammo?

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ImpStarDuece
05-03-2004, 07:00 PM
The article at the cradel of aviation site has the p-38L with a war emergency power setting in the speed vs altitude comparison chart. In it the P-38 tops out at around 440mph, MUCH faster than the usual figure of 414mph. This is because the L had an extra 200-300 hp of juice in its later model Allisons as well as several mecanical fixes which allowed it to deliver greater hp at altitude than earlier versions.

Not that i'm really upset with the P-38, its a great bird and when AEP came out i flew it religiously. I would like to see the L's roll rate tweaked ( make it slow to roll initially, then REALLY quick, as well as the cannon and dispersion problems fixed). Top speed and dive speed aren't really THAT much of an issue right now as it out dives pretty much anything but i think it should loom and climb just a smidge better.

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

tttiger
05-03-2004, 07:28 PM
WEP does NOT mean you're injecting water or laughing gas, it's a throttle setting beyond 100%.

The P-38 has that. But it doesn't have injection.

It's confusing because some planes like the Jug, which has water injection, goes into that mode automatically when you go into WEP. Others require a separate command (I use the B key for Boost).

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."