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View Full Version : Satellite launched for Broadband Wireless Internet



blairgowrie
07-19-2004, 01:39 PM
I read in todays Toronto Star business section that Telsat launched a new satellite on the weekend which will provide access to broadband wireless Internet services this fall, likely through Bell Canada. Details on the service are somewhat sketchy but the projected monthly price will not be much more than you would expect to pay for cable or DSL in the cities.

Would the broadband service they are writing about be good for playing FB on line or is there likely to be a latency issue with it?

I live deep in the woods and there is no other high speed service on the horizon (or over the horizon for that matter).

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

[This message was edited by blairgowrie on Mon July 19 2004 at 02:38 PM.]

blairgowrie
07-19-2004, 01:39 PM
I read in todays Toronto Star business section that Telsat launched a new satellite on the weekend which will provide access to broadband wireless Internet services this fall, likely through Bell Canada. Details on the service are somewhat sketchy but the projected monthly price will not be much more than you would expect to pay for cable or DSL in the cities.

Would the broadband service they are writing about be good for playing FB on line or is there likely to be a latency issue with it?

I live deep in the woods and there is no other high speed service on the horizon (or over the horizon for that matter).

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

[This message was edited by blairgowrie on Mon July 19 2004 at 02:38 PM.]

crazyivan1970
07-19-2004, 01:43 PM
What are they promissing blair? Upload/Download wise?

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blairgowrie
07-19-2004, 01:52 PM
No details mentioned on the service Ivan, just that the satellite will be used for TV and broadband wireless Internet. I will do some more searching (maybe Telsat has something about it on their website) and report back.

In the meantime, maybe some of the other Canadians may have some more information on it.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

blairgowrie
07-19-2004, 02:05 PM
Here are a couple of links to Telsat Canada which have some more information on the broadband service but still not a lot of detail.
http://www.telesat.ca/news/2004/04-03.htm
http://www.telesat.ca/news/2004/04-10.htm
http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

blairgowrie
07-19-2004, 03:18 PM
This sems to have much broader implications than just Canada. Here is a link to a news release about the same satellite for service in the US.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040719/dcm038_1.html

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

blairgowrie
07-19-2004, 03:31 PM
Just found a link that provides all the information on the service. Unfortunately there will be a 1/4 second delay in transmission which makes it unsuitable for real time gaming. This is covered in their FAQ's. Bah, humbug.

http://www.wildblue.com/faq/#20l

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

plumps_
07-19-2004, 03:48 PM
Satellites in a geostationary orbit are at ~36,000 km distance from the earth. Any signal will have to travel that distance twice, that's 72,000 km. Through a cable the signal might almost travel twice around the world in the same time.

BTW did the links mention that the satellite was launched by a European Ariane rocket?

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blairgowrie
07-19-2004, 03:55 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by plumps_:

BTW did the links mention that the satellite was launched by a European Ariane rocket?

Yes, it does mention it was launched by a European Ariane rocket.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

Old_Duck
07-19-2004, 04:04 PM
A few words of caution.

DirecTV (in the U.S.) has this service. One of my neighbors tried it. He spent nearly $1000.00 getting it set up,(plus the monthly charge was over $50.00) He then had it disconnected because in his words "the service was not acceptable". The neighbor is/was not an on-line game player.

Of course this is a new company and it is hopefully better. Hopefully competition will improve the quality of service and reduce the price.

Slight9999
07-19-2004, 04:14 PM
Never fear, I am here. A buddy of mine that I went to college with is in one of the several testing areas for the new wireless. He has had it for about 6 months in one of the test areas and has ping of 40-60 on UT2004. Looks like 100k/s download average right now.

Slight9999
07-19-2004, 04:25 PM
The fee for Canada in the testing area is $400 to get the initial setup equipment then $35 CND/month

AnalFissure
07-19-2004, 04:31 PM
Wireless isn't the same thing as satellite.

Satellite has terrible latency issues, and is only broadband on the downstream, uploads and requests for downloads still run through regular phone lines.

Unless they've come up with some kind of new technology, steer clear... really clear.

blairgowrie
07-19-2004, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AnalFissure:
Wireless isn't the same thing as satellite.

Satellite has terrible latency issues, and is only broadband on the downstream, uploads and requests for downloads still run through regular phone lines.

Unless they've come up with some kind of new technology, steer clear... really clear.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In their FAQ, they state that no regular phone lines are involved. So yes, I guess they are talking about a new technology. My wife will need it for business purposes so I will get to play with it and see how it does for FB.

"Do customers have to have a phone line in addition to the satellite connection?
No. This is a 2-way wireless, high-speed Internet service that requires no phone line connection."


http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

Udidtoo
07-19-2004, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blairgowrie:
This sems to have much broader implications than just Canada. Here is a link to a news release about the same satellite for service in the US.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040719/dcm038_1.html

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That looks very intresting. Like you I live in a very remote area and have 2 choices besides my dialup. Earthlink satt. or DirectPC satt. Both have that latencey issue for gaming and both want almost $85 a month.

I can already NOT play online for much cheaper than that. Even if it turns out to not be any good for realtime gaming if they are smart enough to offer it at a reasonable price they would have customers lined up and waiting here.

Just think, by next April all of you onliners can be handing me my hynie until I get the knack of flying against real people.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

Slight9999
07-19-2004, 06:16 PM
This is NOT normal sat tech. that has fast downstream and very slow up. this is wireless - and in a basic sense - the sat is the hub. thats VERY basic but it is new and has been planned for a while and it is being tested right now in some areas across Canada. 40-80 ping on ut2004

bun-bun195333
07-19-2004, 06:21 PM
Blairgowrie,

Dang, I was excited for a second there. It would be super if you could see where the AI is rather than where it was a half second ago.
Your usual ping is 369 which isn't too bad.

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zlin
07-19-2004, 06:23 PM
Old_Duck is pretty much correct. I used high speed internet satellite connection for about a year and it cost me to set up all for nearly $1000.00 plus monthly payments of $75.00 !!! For casual internet browsing it could be ok but for gaming i just can't imagine :-( Not to mention frequent weather issue and worst of all got to run very sensitive software to keep my computer connected with satellite. I'm in U.S and now using cable without any problems Good luck with satellite. :-)

blairgowrie
10-05-2004, 04:13 PM
I just checked with the company (Intersat Communications, a division of Telsat) who will launch this service in Canada and got the following information.

Launch has been postponed until August 2004.

Upload speed will be 128 kbps
Download 500 kbps

Cost will be Can$59.95 per month plus Can$300 for installation.

It will not be a good solution for gaming. Much worse than a 23kbps dial up connection.

The US launch by Wildblue Communications has apparently also been postponed.

Disappointing information on 2 counts.

1. The delay

2. The lag problem for gaming.

I will still subscribe for downloads, photos etc but will stick with dial-up for on-line play.

VW-IceFire
10-05-2004, 04:41 PM
As far as I can remember, this is still a real major benefit for those in less accessible areas by broadband internet. It means you can potentially have high speed access where before you had virtually no access at all.

Thats a bonus...just may not be appealing to us already spoiled by broadband infrastructure.

blairgowrie
10-05-2004, 05:09 PM
It's progress I guess IceFire. Not the absolute best but better than it was before.

TheJoyStick
10-05-2004, 05:15 PM
Phew, I'm glad I have cable.

From my experience, wireless is always bad.

Wireless mice lose focus a lot, and their batteries die in a few hours, keyboards just plain suck, wireless remotes always get lost, and wireless phones are a joke.

lil_labbit
10-05-2004, 05:43 PM
LOL I should have calculated first, so I deleted my prev. message.

Geo-Stationary orbit is at about 36000km height above the center of the Earth above the equator.
Lets say you live on the north pole... The radius of Earth is about 6000km.
The geo-stationary (or geo-synchronous) sattelite would be about 30000km above the ground.
Now if you'd lived on the north pole, and playing with a budy on the southpole, you'd get
a total signal distance of 2x36500km = 73000km, which would give a ping of at least 73000km/300000km/s = 243 ms.

As you can see that's not too bad, but then no other delays have been taken into account (service station to sending/receiving party, processing of the signals). Furthermore you would not be the only one using the satelite channel, which may induce further delays. I have several TV channels both through terrestial reception and through satelite reception and get very noticable delays on the satelite ones, upto one second even - that's a ping of 1000 !

I don't think it'll work for gameing..

DangerForward
10-05-2004, 09:37 PM
The latency is really the big problem with Sat based broadband, I think around 1000ms. Because of various companies failing and/or sucking we had to creat our own ISP. A guy rented space on a ham radio dude's tower to distribute an 802.11 network for our area. I was his first customer, I put an amp and antenna in my attic. Works really well, wouldn't have happened though if the whole community wasn't driven to do it themselves.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-06-2004, 05:59 AM
Well I for one am fed up with city life and the only thing stopping me moving to a cabin in the woooodz is **** internet.

So I for one am gona be watching this space with interest thanks for the heads up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

blairgowrie
10-06-2004, 06:12 AM
I have to admit, I was very disappointed about the latency thing. I thought with the upload and download speeds it would be negligible. I was told it would be in the region of 500 mili seconds.

Fortunately, there are other benefits to living in the woods.

123-Wulf-JG123
10-06-2004, 08:36 AM
I have wireless satellite broadband as well as dial-up. Frankly, the only thing going for satellite is that it can download quicker than my dial-up,otherwise it really sucks.
Internet gaming is a no-go because of the latency,and voice comms just dont work. I would stick with the dial-up m8, at least you can game with it.

Fillmore
10-06-2004, 09:46 AM
Calculations on the route from you to satellite to buddy are missing a step. In reality when you get right down to it ping times end up in the 1000ms range.

It does not go from you to the sat, then sat to your buddy. It goes from you to sat, from sat to ground station, from ground station to buddy, this is the fastest way. If your buddy is unfortunate to have only sat too, then it is you to sat, sat to ground, ground to sat, sat to buddy.

My father got satellite. If the Institute didnt pay for it it would have been gone in a week. It is good for DLing large files and that is it. It is NOT good for most general surfing, 56k dialup is generally faster. Anything that requires handshaking back and forth becomes a huge lagfest.

In my neck of the woods the term wireless internet is reserved for ground antennae, not satellites. I'm sure the satellite companies would love to take that terminology for themselves to make it sound good.

Also look to see what your DL limits are. Our's has a daily limit of under 200MB, so DLing many game demos is out of the question (we keep forgetting about this, I started DLing a free trial of SHadowbane then it stopped 1/4 of the way through and we remembered the limit, I ended up DLing it over the 56K modem, which took ~36 hours, while using the satellite would have taken 4 days).

sunflower1
10-06-2004, 10:35 AM
I use DirecWay, Hughes' offering.

Yes, you guys who can choose cable or DSL are spoiled!!

I've been up on this for two years now and it works fine. They have introduced a new modem that uses firmware to get the software off your machine and make re-connecting to the network easier.

It has weather related issues and delays that make it unsuitable for gaming and d/l limits, etc. All of these things suck, no argument there.

If you use webpages that have any sort of heft to them at all, as I do related to work, this kicks the doo-doo out of dialup when you live in the woods. As an example, loading Intellicast's weather radar loop page on dialup takes about thirty seconds on country copper. You city folk need to remember that we don't get 56k connections out here, we get 18 sometimes. It takes about 4 seconds on the Hughes system.

I'm not a fanboy of this setup, I wish it weren't the only choice, but it lives up to everything Hughes said it would do.

One of the nice things about Hughes, among the obvious blemishes, is that you don't have the problems associated with the backoffices of the phone companies or ISP's (as aluded to above, they suck, want to add DSL to your account, anyone?). Satellite bandwidth is pretty precious and the network engineers at Hughes are top drawer, apparently. They must be, I don't know their names. I knew the names of lots of people at my last ISP.

blairgowrie
10-06-2004, 11:43 AM
I am glad all you guys are posting information on this technology. I certainly have a better handle on it now and I am sure some of my "country" brethren have learned a lot too.

They are obviously spending big bucks on this stuff. The AnikF2 satellite is apparently the largest communications satellite launched to date. Of course, it will have other uses such as HDTV. Now there is another topic for an off-topic thread.

sunflower1
10-13-2004, 01:02 PM
There are T-storms over Maryland today and the Direcway system is down. Probably related. This marks the end of a really long string of good luck- the new computer didn't even have its dialup configured yet and its been in service for nearly 5 months and I don't remember how long before that was the last time I was forced onto the phone line. Not to say that there haven't been outages, but they've been inconsequential.

It takes between 30 and 45 seconds for me to get from one forum page to the next with a 26 k hookup. On the satellite it takes between 3 and 5 seconds, sometimes less.

Its still a psuedo-broadband setup, but it works so much better than dialup that you miss it when its down.

blairgowrie
10-13-2004, 04:46 PM
Thanks for posting this Sunflower1. I think 2005 will be a very interesting year for broadband and other types of technology. If it is successful, which I think it will be, it will spurn all other competitors to come up with better products and innovation. Here's hoping anyway!

Weather_Man
10-13-2004, 05:49 PM
There is one advantage to living in a big city. Verizon is installing FTTP (Fiber-to-the-Premises) in my area. They're offering 15mbps/2mbps speeds for $45/month. And, 30mbps/5mbps will be available for a little more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif