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Malidictus
05-17-2008, 06:35 AM
I've been looking at writing a combat guide for Assassin's Creed for some time now (too lazy to get around to that, bot some day...) I like to think of myself as a good fighter, one who can not only win, but make the fights look cool at the same time. It's pretty easy to fortify yourself in High Profile mode and sit on your rump, waiting for enemies to counter, but it's... Well, cheap, and it looks bad. It's equally easy to counter-grab that Templar and then bash him with your sword before he can get up, but that's downright silly.

On subject, though, I've been able to do absolutely every combat move the game has to offer, aside from the non-kill combo kill. When my enemy is low on health, a combo kill will result in this very cool scripted animation of Altair stabbing them in the gut or breaking their necks or what have you. But there's another kind of combo kill, the one you do in the practice corral. The one where you punch the other guy in the face with your sword hand. That I just cannot do.

Initially I thought that was just a non-lethal animation so I'm not killing my training partners, but since then I've seen many a Templar and many a guard perform this kind of punch to the face on me. I've tried it, myself, and it just doesn't work. I keep banging on their swords until their health runs down low enough, at which point I perform a kill Combo Kill. I've tried it off a hard hit and it still doesn't work unless it's an actual kill. I've tried it off a body hit (after a guard break or when they taunt) and it still doesn't work. And I know you can combo kills off a body hit because I've done the kill version both in the training corral and on real guards.

So what am I doing wrong?

Malidictus
05-17-2008, 06:35 AM
I've been looking at writing a combat guide for Assassin's Creed for some time now (too lazy to get around to that, bot some day...) I like to think of myself as a good fighter, one who can not only win, but make the fights look cool at the same time. It's pretty easy to fortify yourself in High Profile mode and sit on your rump, waiting for enemies to counter, but it's... Well, cheap, and it looks bad. It's equally easy to counter-grab that Templar and then bash him with your sword before he can get up, but that's downright silly.

On subject, though, I've been able to do absolutely every combat move the game has to offer, aside from the non-kill combo kill. When my enemy is low on health, a combo kill will result in this very cool scripted animation of Altair stabbing them in the gut or breaking their necks or what have you. But there's another kind of combo kill, the one you do in the practice corral. The one where you punch the other guy in the face with your sword hand. That I just cannot do.

Initially I thought that was just a non-lethal animation so I'm not killing my training partners, but since then I've seen many a Templar and many a guard perform this kind of punch to the face on me. I've tried it, myself, and it just doesn't work. I keep banging on their swords until their health runs down low enough, at which point I perform a kill Combo Kill. I've tried it off a hard hit and it still doesn't work unless it's an actual kill. I've tried it off a body hit (after a guard break or when they taunt) and it still doesn't work. And I know you can combo kills off a body hit because I've done the kill version both in the training corral and on real guards.

So what am I doing wrong?

ScytheOfGrim
05-17-2008, 06:39 AM
No, you cannot do that sort of combo kill.

The reason that Templars and guards use it against you is so that you understand why you aren't dead.

When the game was being produced, the original plan was for you to die in one "lethal blow", and some sort of rendition of this has appeared in the final version.

Guards cannot do any lethal counters or combo-kills due to the "synchronization" system in the game.

That combo-kill was indeed as you had thought at first; it was there just because you can't use a lethal one against your allies in the training pit.

Bobfish_Almight
05-17-2008, 06:40 AM
I think the only way you can perform those moves is as part of a grab break. And if you think it's too easy to sit back and counter kill everyone, try doing an entire fight with just your hidden blade. You can't block then

BlairCullen02
05-17-2008, 08:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">try doing an entire fight with just your hidden blade. You can't block then </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can go through a whole fight with just the Hidden Blade. Just stand there and wait for someone to attack and the counter-kill them. Pimps.

Bobfish_Almight
05-17-2008, 08:58 AM
Oh I know, I've done it several times also. I'm just saying that it isn't nearly as easy as it is when you use the Short Blade of Sword. And the satisfaction of getting the timing right is much more pronounced

Malidictus
05-18-2008, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ScytheOfGrim:
No, you cannot do that sort of combo kill.
The reason that Templars and guards use it against you is so that you understand why you aren't dead.
When the game was being produced, the original plan was for you to die in one "lethal blow", and some sort of rendition of this has appeared in the final version.
Guards cannot do any lethal counters or combo-kills due to the "synchronization" system in the game.
That combo-kill was indeed as you had thought at first; it was there just because you can't use a lethal one against your allies in the training pit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That explains a lot. It would make sense for the game to have some means for Altair to one-hit-kill a few enemies and then make a rapid escape. It would also make sense that such a system would be badly overpowered, as you could instead use it to decimate a legion of soldiers and never have to run. If this was a late-development change, it would also explain why there are so few animations for non-lethal counter kills (there's actually only one) and why the attacks are labelled as "counter KILL" and "combo KILL" when they don't, in fact, always kill.

I actually watched an old movie where Altair fought a bunch of guards and every contact ended in a kill, which would likely have been from a very early stage in the game, given how long ago I saw it (years, probably).

It would all also make sense to explain why the training session is so... Confusing, making it seem like you can counter-kill at any time, while you can't, really. Instead, they appear to have instituted a combo system, where you can chain hits against a blocking (as opposed to parrying) opponent which can eventually end in a combo kill. I gotta' say, if I had to choose between that and a two-hit punch, I'd pick the combo, simply because it looks cooler http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It still makes me angry Templars can do something I can't, though. Would have been good if I could chain it off a big hit or off a body hit, at least. It's bloody annoying when they do it to me, and I KNOW I can do it to others as evidenced in the training pit.

Oh, well, at least I know what ever fighting move does now. I could, theoretically, write a combat guide at some point http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

On that note - what's the point to fighting with the Short Blade at all, aside from the ability to throw knives? It does less damage and doesn't seem to have any extra moves. Plus it looks goofy to my eyes, so I haven't experimented with it as much.

Malidictus
05-18-2008, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bobfish_Almight:
Oh I know, I've done it several times also. I'm just saying that it isn't nearly as easy as it is when you use the Short Blade of Sword. And the satisfaction of getting the timing right is much more pronounced </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's doable, especially with the mile-long synch bar in the end game. It seems the counter window is a lot smaller with the hidden blade, though.

But you can do more than just counter with it. You can assassinate people who are taunting, people who are reeling and people fallen on the ground in Low Profile mode. It's actually easier to throw people and assassinate them or to seek those with lowered defences. It looks just as cool, even if it's not as hard to pull off, and it's still fighting with the hidden blade, so it scares soldiers something fierce.

I actually think scaring them off is a matter of doing "special" moves. The more special moves you do, and the faster you do them, the more likely they are to run away. The more you just hack like a brute, the more they'll stick around. The hidden blade just happens to have nothing BUT special moves http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fist fights are pretty dull, though, with them lacking a counter and with the AI just punching away incessantly.

rebel7254
05-19-2008, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Malidictus:

On that note - what's the point to fighting with the Short Blade at all, aside from the ability to throw knives? It does less damage and doesn't seem to have any extra moves. Plus it looks goofy to my eyes, so I haven't experimented with it as much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually prefer to fight with the short blade. You can't really do anything "different" in terms of technique, but I find that the killing animations with the short blade are pretty sweet, and cooler than the ones with the sword IMO. My favorite, which I don't see too often, is the one where Altair bends over to stab the enemy in the toe and springs back up to slice his face open. I think it's pretty badass everytime I see it.

I also find the short blade killing animations even cooler than some of the hidden blade counter kills.

BlairCullen02
05-19-2008, 09:03 AM
While fighting the Templars guarding Robert, it soon came to my attention that I was fighting with my fists.

Woops.

I died.

adarwinter
05-20-2008, 02:50 PM
i had many issues with the game being to easy and forgiving.

i just use the art-money tool (works on the PC version only, of course) and use it to limit al-tair's health to 2 or 3 synch-bars and disabling the synch bar from the HUD.
i finished the entire game with 3 synch bars which shows that ubisoft could do away with 15 or 20 synch bars and the COULD HAVE relied on a harsher health system even through the last few battles.

it's doable and not as hard as i thought it would be.

Bobfish_Almight
05-20-2008, 02:54 PM
Whilst we're on the subject of fists fights, has anyone else been having the problem of the NPCs always missing if you stand still? It happens about 60-70 percent of the time with me and it gets rather tiresome seeing a sword sweep through me for absoloutely no effect

Tela
05-20-2008, 02:57 PM
I've never had that happen before, and I've been in a good amount of fights.

Bobfish_Almight
05-20-2008, 02:59 PM
It's rather irritating. But amusing when I decide to stop using weapons and beat the poor saps to death with nothing but my fists. Sometimes I have to deliberately start moving around just to ensure they can actually hit me. A bit of a buzz kill really

altairego
05-20-2008, 08:17 PM
i agree with adar.
the ease with which i can lay out 50 people is astounding -- THEY DON"T DEFEND THEMSELVES for crissakes!

kazeria
05-22-2008, 11:01 PM
to the original poster: the best way to fight in my opinion is to keep attacking like an idiot and spinning the camera which makes you attack different enemies at all times, mix normal attacks with strong attacks and in specially defense break, it also looks really cool, when you get a hit continue hitting that guy till he dies, if you see yourself get grabbed then perform the counter-grab, and while attacking an enemy be prepared for hits from the back, only when the enemy is close enough to be able to hit you press right click and keep attacking the other guy who is blocking, when the other guy attacks from the back counter attack out of nowhere, now that is something nice. when defense braked, dodge the next hit or counter attack it, if you dodge, follow by a guard break and combo and kill him, that's something really good looking. Perform random grabs in specially throw off building, in water or merchant stand for cool factor, perform some ground killings too for cool factor as well, in specially the ones with your hidden blade as those are awesome. During battle switch weapons like between the sword and the short blade and hidden blade or throw some knives at some enemies as well, in specially those annoying archers that shoot from rooftops at you while you are fighting like ten guys, then switch back to your sword, do some really ******ed stuff like throw a knife at a guy shooting arrows at you then counter attack some guy trying to attack you from the back with your short blade, notice that arrows that the archer shot before dying now cannot hit you since you are counter attacking, i think there is more to be mentioned but lets stay here from now.

So once you understand and master that style, you will be able to kill countless armies at humongous speed while being almost untouchable and looking really awesome as well. Feel free to add any ideas of yours to it, oh ya the combo kill followed by a counter attack on an enemy that tries to attack you from the back after you combo killed that enemy. another tip is if you are moving do so while in aggressive stance to gain ground and become faster, and avoid fighting to many enemies at a time, only hold right click once an enemy is close enough to hit you, be ready to counter or dodge afterwards.

spazzoo1025
05-25-2008, 09:34 PM
kazeria, try using the enter button a bit more please


hard to read

altairego
05-26-2008, 08:45 AM
spazz, that's how they wrote in 12th century. no punctuation. refreshing really.

kazeria
05-27-2008, 10:33 AM
another option of a skilled counter is if an enemy dodges your attack and tries to hit you, just counter attack his attack. sometimes he will follow up with a guard break after he dodges, counter attack again, or you can dodge the above and do your manual attack after, notice that this attack can be dodged or countered.

jaky25
05-28-2008, 02:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gifyou are stupid cant understand