PDA

View Full Version : ummm.. the new k4 C3 is slower than the stock model,,,



Gwalker70
02-09-2006, 07:55 PM
wonder what happen.. do the test yourself and see..the C3 is a bit more manuverable thats about it... it is around 20 Kph slower at altitude than the stock version

Gwalker70
02-09-2006, 07:55 PM
wonder what happen.. do the test yourself and see..the C3 is a bit more manuverable thats about it... it is around 20 Kph slower at altitude than the stock version

Danschnell
02-09-2006, 08:15 PM
You didn't expect something like that? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The anti blue bias has always been what makes me fly blue. Its a great challenge that I enjoy. Remember Oleg is Russian and he'll always favour the reds. When the day comes that Oleg ever makes and German plane go as fast as it should I'd probably loose interest.

Fw190s are the worst offenders. They are all 10-20kph slower than their real world figures. Ta152 is probably the most noticably slow up high. Its maybe 1-2kph faster than those Jugs and P51s... don't expect it to be able to 'leave its opponents standing' like in all the historical accounts.

luftluuver
02-09-2006, 08:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
wonder what happen.. do the test yourself and see..the C3 is a bit more manuverable thats about it... it is around 20 Kph slower at altitude than the stock version </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Bet they mixed up the data entry for the 1.80 and 1.98. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

HayateAce
02-09-2006, 08:24 PM
Wow this must be a good patch. Bloo is whining again since 4.02...

http://www.vivisjournal.com/vivis_wine_notes/images/z_wine_spill.jpg

carguy_
02-09-2006, 08:25 PM
Not only this.Check yourself when the elevator locks on both of those.You`ll find it surprising.

Danschnell
02-09-2006, 09:25 PM
OK I just did a test. Empty loadouts, 10% fuel etc etc.

The Bf109K historically achieved 580kph on deck.

The Bf109K-4 in il2 achieves about 560, the C3 exactly 580.

So, at sea level at least the C3 is NOT slower than the standard K-4. However, the C3 only gives us the standard realistic K4 now, as opposed to the undermodelled version.

The K-4 C3 and all other German planes are correct relative to each other, all suffering the same amount from the standard German plane undermodelling.

Not much has changed, only peoples perceptions of it. No more reason to whine than there was before. All undermodelling standards still in place, nothing worse.

p1ngu666
02-09-2006, 09:38 PM
hm
ill run some tests tomoz

Gwalker70
02-09-2006, 09:42 PM
I did not do deck .. I did 6500 meters 50% fuel.. full realism... standard ammo..same map ect ect the C3 is around 20kph less than stock K4 .. the faster deck on the stock model maybe a supercharger thing? or manifold difference? . .. who knows

lrrp22
02-10-2006, 12:23 AM
Just did a little testing- I get 597 kph at SL for the K-4 C3 and 587 kph for K-4 B4. Crimea, noon, 100% fuel, radiators closed.

LRRP

Oleg_Maddox
02-10-2006, 12:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Danschnell:
You didn't expect something like that? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The anti blue bias has always been what makes me fly blue. Its a great challenge that I enjoy. Remember Oleg is Russian and he'll always favour the reds. When the day comes that Oleg ever makes and German plane go as fast as it should I'd probably loose interest.

Fw190s are the worst offenders. They are all 10-20kph slower than their real world figures. Ta152 is probably the most noticably slow up high. Its maybe 1-2kph faster than those Jugs and P51s... don't expect it to be able to 'leave its opponents standing' like in all the historical accounts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do think that most of German planes fly faster than should. Real picture was that only earlier and later only Hungarian production planes were able to achive the manufacture specifications in a series using German quality of the fuel...
That tell Lufwaffe pilots in recals and speeches with them (30 km/h slowly is a middle digit of their recalls)

And also we don't model end-war rising the quality of Russian fuel ...

Bf-109K4 fly now by the German manufacture specifications which we have from known for community historian collection of German aviation docs.

Now you have two models with DB-605DB 1.8 ata and DB-605DC 1.98 Ata.

Climb was decreased to realistic values (as well as decreased for the La- series even more)

However late Yaks still flyes not so good as it should (from the words of pilot who fly Yak now)

So speeches about Oleg's no interest are wrong.
Youn even don't know how is hard to find NON CORRECTED by some oth other in time _real_ docs.

I also recommned to read the original German document about the problems of DB-605DC 1,98 ata..... That was the whole list of problems... And if that is serial production this would means never use of 1,98 ata really. Just take it in account.

Finally... For your sure I'm really Russian born. However my whole family (as result also me in the end of branch) is a mix of English, German and less - Russian bloods.
Do you know my favirite aircraft of the WWII in technical aspects (cost/Engineering ideas terms) - this German plane FW-190. I think many here know this. However it doesn't measn that this plane will fly better all.

In terms of Sexy looking aircraft I like very much Mustang and less Yak-9U post war production. In the last case it doesn't means that I will model Yak-9U to the trials before manufacture speciafications. We model it with all the problems of aircraft of the first series. And still there isn't present the series of 1945 winter-spring that almost hadn't them and match manufacture specifications... Just try to find them that to have an image of what I told here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Same: there is still not present Yak-3 VK-107A of both variants that met Germans in the last months of the war...

I think you should be more thinking that to post what you posted. I told here just 10% what I can tell....

Oleg_Maddox
02-10-2006, 12:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lrrp22:
Just did a little testing- I get 597 kph at SL for the K-4 C3 and 587 kph for K-4 B4. Crimea, noon, 100% fuel, radiators closed.

LRRP </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is close measurments to what we have realy in the sim.

3.JG51_Stecher
02-10-2006, 01:05 AM
Crimea, 1200, Clear, No Wind, 100% fuel, Default, 4.03m, km/h TAS

SL
Bf 109K-4 1.80ata - 580
Bf 109K-4 1.98ata - 590

6500m
Bf 109K-4 1.80ata - 730
Bf 109K-4 1.98ata - 724

crazyivan1970
02-10-2006, 01:12 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FA_Whisky
02-10-2006, 01:21 AM
Think Oleg is right here boys........ hehehe

The speed diff at altitude might as well be a supercharger thing. Test it at diff altituted to see where its the fastest.

IIJG69_Kartofe
02-10-2006, 01:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
I think you should be more thinking that to post what you posted. I told here just 10% what I can tell.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If i was you i don't hesitate 1/100 sec to tell the 90%.

It will calm down ALOT of people here, "Blue and red sided".

ELKASKONE
02-10-2006, 02:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:

Bf-109K4 fly now by the German manufacture specifications which we have from known for community historian collection of German aviation docs.

Now you have two models with DB-605DB 1.8 ata and DB-605DC 1.98 Ata.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First thanks for the new patch and the new planes, i enjoy your work!

I think a 1,98ata 109K4 with C3 and MW50 will reach 607km/h at sealevel!

If you modeled 109K4 +DB and B4 with MW50(1,8 Grundeinstellung) and 109K4 +DC and C3 without MW50 (1,98 Grundeinstellung) the Topspeed at Sealevel are ok,but in Documents from 19.1.45 DB ist faster at sealevel than DC! (Krim Map 100% Fuel and closed Radiators)
And at 90-100% "Kampfleistung" a K4 with DB or DC is 15-20km/h to slow!


-DB605DB/ASB mit D├╝nnblattpropeller und B4 Sprit 87 Oktan
Notleistung/Kampfleistung vom 19.01.45
Me109K4 mit 1430PS -
Kampfleistung, 3400kg,1,45Ata
0m 536km/h
8000m 700km/h
Me109K4 mit DB605DB 1850PS -
Notleistung mit MW50, 3400kg,1,8Ata
0m 594km/h
7100m 726km/h
Me109K4 mit DB605DB -
Notleistung ohne MW50, 3400kg,1,5Ata
0m 545km/h
8000m 700km/h

-DB605DC/ASC mit D├╝nnblattpropeller und C3 Sprit 98 Oktan
Notleistung/Kampfleistung vom 19.01.45

Bei Grundeinstellung 1,8
Me109K4 mit 1370PS -
Kampfleistung, 3400kg,1,45Ata
0m 540km/h
8000m 700km/h
Me109K4 mit 1850PS -
Notleistung ohne MW50, 3400kg,1,8Ata
0m 586km/h
7200m 721km/h

Bei Grundeinstellung 1,98
Me109K4 mit 1370PS -
Kampfleistung, 3400kg,1,45Ata
0m 531km/h
8000m 700km/h
Me109K4 mit 1850PS -
Notleistung ohne MW50, 3400kg,1,8Ata
0m 580km/h
7500m 720km/h

stathem
02-10-2006, 02:12 AM
Oleg = Respect

Thanks for everything.

Danschnell
02-10-2006, 02:22 AM
Hmmmmmm. Well I wouldn't have posted what I did if I hadn't got the test results that I did. I must be doing something wrong somewhere but seriously guys I never get the historical values when I test the German planes, whereas you all seem to get historical values. Don't make sense.

I use TAS, 10% fuel, SL, Crimea, noon, no wind, prop pitch 100%, empty guns.

So why do I always get slower and end up insulting Oleg? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

3.JG51_Stecher
02-10-2006, 02:26 AM
3000m
1.80ata - 643
1.98ata - 654

5000m
1.80ata - 692
1.98ata - 704

6000m
1.80ata - 717
1.98ata - 724

So the new one is marginally faster all the way up to 6000m, above which the 1.80ata K-4 goes ahead slightly within 500m.

SeaFireLIV
02-10-2006, 02:27 AM
Thanks Oleg for standing up for yourself! always knew there was a bit of English in there somewhere! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

3.JG51_Stecher
02-10-2006, 02:40 AM
It's funny, a lot of people were either excited, or worried about this plane's arrival. As it turns out the 4.02m 1.80ata K-4 has the same exact speed at 6000m as the 4.03m 1.98ata K-4, 724km/h. And the 4.02m Kurfust's SL speed of 585 is right in the middle of the 4.03m Kurfurts' SL speeds of 580 and 590 km/h. It's practically the same plane. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Marcel_Albert
02-10-2006, 02:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Danschnell:
You didn't expect something like that? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The anti blue bias has always been what makes me fly blue. Its a great challenge that I enjoy. Remember Oleg is Russian and he'll always favour the reds. When the day comes that Oleg ever makes and German plane go as fast as it should I'd probably loose interest.

Fw190s are the worst offenders. They are all 10-20kph slower than their real world figures. Ta152 is probably the most noticably slow up high. Its maybe 1-2kph faster than those Jugs and P51s... don't expect it to be able to 'leave its opponents standing' like in all the historical accounts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do think that most of German planes fly faster than should. Real picture was that only earlier and later only Hungarian production planes were able to achive the manufacture specifications in a series using German quality of the fuel...
That tell Lufwaffe pilots in recals and speeches with them (30 km/h slowly is a middle digit of their recalls)

And also we don't model end-war rising the quality of Russian fuel ...

Bf-109K4 fly now by the German manufacture specifications which we have from known for community historian collection of German aviation docs.

Now you have two models with DB-605DB 1.8 ata and DB-605DC 1.98 Ata.

Climb was decreased to realistic values (as well as decreased for the La- series even more)

However late Yaks still flyes not so good as it should (from the words of pilot who fly Yak now)

So speeches about Oleg's no interest are wrong.
Youn even don't know how is hard to find NON CORRECTED by some oth other in time _real_ docs.

I also recommned to read the original German document about the problems of DB-605DC 1,98 ata..... That was the whole list of problems... And if that is serial production this would means never use of 1,98 ata really. Just take it in account.

Finally... For your sure I'm really Russian born. However my whole family (as result also me in the end of branch) is a mix of English, German and less - Russian bloods.
Do you know my favirite aircraft of the WWII in technical aspects (cost/Engineering ideas terms) - this German plane FW-190. I think many here know this. However it doesn't measn that this plane will fly better all.

In terms of Sexy looking aircraft I like very much Mustang and less Yak-9U post war production. In the last case it doesn't means that I will model Yak-9U to the trials before manufacture speciafications. We model it with all the problems of aircraft of the first series. And still there isn't present the series of 1945 winter-spring that almost hadn't them and match manufacture specifications... Just try to find them that to have an image of what I told here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Same: there is still not present Yak-3 VK-107A of both variants that met Germans in the last months of the war...

I think you should be more thinking that to post what you posted. I told here just 10% what I can tell.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Great post Oleg ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We for sure would love a Yak-3 Vk107A , when i posted this idea , a honest and kind user named Kocur told me that in his recent book about Yaks it never fought , but all i've read what telling me the opposite , anyway it would be great to have this plane in the future .

A P-39 field Mod. 1943 , you know the plane of legendary Pokryshkin , Rechkalov , Fadeev etc... !
It isn't modelled in game , VVS aircraft have nothing for a while now , like you say better Russian fuel of late 1944 isn't modelled sadly .

P-39 field mod would be a P-39 armor without much of the armor as you should know , retrieved machine guns , and engine running at higher RPM than standard model , this plane was more lighter , faster , more acceleration than the standard factory spec P-39 we have in game , it would be good , this plane is one of the most important plane in Eastern front http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Ok enough said , Thanks a lot for this excellent patch Oleg with all these new planes , this sim is fantastic really ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Danschnell
02-10-2006, 02:50 AM
OK now I'm getting similar figures to everyone else. I realised one thing different in my testing to everyone else's testing. I wasn't using Crimea map.

Using the Crimea map makes a LOT of difference (although I seriously don't know why.) Did your location in the world really make tha much difference in real life to the speed of your German plane?

Oleg may be offended, and if he is I'm sorry, but I still feel German planes are too slow. Germans tested their planes near Berlin. If a test near Berlin says 600kph on deck then it should happen there. Russian planes were a lot more likely to be tested in the Crimea though, but the Crimea has a 20kph advantage.

Therefore, when putting all planes on the same mpas, we should add 20kph to the speeds of all German planes compared to the Russian ones.

One curious test result - Mustang Mk3 sea level 642kph. Wow thats a speed maching. A full 35 kph faster than the Do-335! Mustang would've beaten it senseless.

anarchy52
02-10-2006, 03:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marcel_Albert:
P-39 field mod would be a P-39 armor without much of the armor as you should know , retrieved machine guns , and engine running at higher RPM than standard model , this plane was more lighter , faster , more acceleration than the standard factory spec P-39 we have in game , it would be good , this plane is one of the most important plane in Eastern front http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, we do have the VVS versions which perform better then standard P-39. However, later P-39s were made for VVS exclusivelly and soviets were included in design process.

Meshsmoother
02-10-2006, 03:55 AM
Man Oleg just gave us a lot of good things FOR FREE!! It's not 24 hrs yet the patch is out and I see yet a lot of whining on both sides! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Please give the man a huge Thanks! go back to your virtual cockits and get used to the retouched FM before stating things are porked and that one side got more than the other! This happens on every single patch, then ppl get used to how the new FM feels like, and whinning goes down a little... remember the 4.03 complaints about FW190 DM? There have allwys been and allways will be different perceptions on how a plane flies.

=S=

T.

TooCooL34
02-10-2006, 04:00 AM
I suppose there would be whining always so I don't care about it much recently but..
Conspiracy theory that there are bias cause Oleg is Russian blah blah blah is still disgusting and makes me angry. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Gwalker70
02-10-2006, 04:02 AM
so basicly.. we have the same K4 as far as speed just about.. and also climbs worse according to oleg .. lol I want the old one back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

then to add injury to insult, allied gets a 25# spit which in game just kills the new K4 wholesale (saw this happening a lot on full real server I flew)



lol see you in 8 months when 4.04 comes out.. back to Bf2

ploughman
02-10-2006, 04:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 3.JG51_Stecher:
It's funny, a lot of people were either excited, or worried about this plane's arrival. As it turns out the 4.02m 1.80ata K-4 has the same exact speed at 6000m as the 4.03m 1.98ata K-4, 724km/h. And the 4.02m Kurfust's SL speed of 585 is right in the middle of the 4.03m Kurfurts' SL speeds of 580 and 590 km/h. It's practically the same plane. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I recall correctly from Tagert's 109 K4 thread in which he'd received an email from Oleg, the K4 from 4.02 was a 1.98ata but it's top SL speed was about 590kph and it's RoC was a little over modelled. In this patch that FM was corrected and became the K4 C3 and the a new K4 1944 was inserted as a 1.8 ata. At least that was my understanding off it...that we'd always had a K4 modelled at 1.98 performance, we'd all understandably assumed it was 1.8 ata as it was labelled K4 1944 but it had 1.98 performance and the devicelink output for the boost read 1.98 ata.

Funny eh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Danschnell
02-10-2006, 04:52 AM
I apologised to Oleg personally.

Without being offensive, yes Gwalker70 this is what I mean about Allied planes always staying ahead of Axis.

OldMan____
02-10-2006, 05:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Danschnell:
OK now I'm getting similar figures to everyone else. I realised one thing different in my testing to everyone else's testing. I wasn't using Crimea map.

Using the Crimea map makes a LOT of difference (although I seriously don't know why.) Did your location in the world really make tha much difference in real life to the speed of your German plane?

Oleg may be offended, and if he is I'm sorry, but I still feel German planes are too slow. Germans tested their planes near Berlin. If a test near Berlin says 600kph on deck then it should happen there. Russian planes were a lot more likely to be tested in the Crimea though, but the Crimea has a 20kph advantage.

Therefore, when putting all planes on the same mpas, we should add 20kph to the speeds of all German planes compared to the Russian ones.

One curious test result - Mustang Mk3 sea level 642kph. Wow thats a speed maching. A full 35 kph faster than the Do-335! Mustang would've beaten it senseless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Things are not that simple. Different temperature and pressure conditions can cahnge drasticaly speed.

All speed tests (in RL) should have data on temperature, humidity and pressure on the day of test. Air at -20 c is MUCH more dense than air at + 30 c.

SeaFireLIV
02-10-2006, 05:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Danschnell:


Oleg may be offended, and if he is I'm sorry, but I still feel German planes are too slow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Feelings are different from the knowledge, which Oleg and team has. It always amuses me to see some people persist in arguing about something they know really very little of with qualified, experienced personel such as Oleg and Crew. And what Oleg`s team unsure of they research intensively. They will even ask for help if needed.

AFJ_Locust
02-10-2006, 06:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Danschnell:
OK I just did a test. Empty loadouts, 10% fuel etc etc.

The Bf109K historically achieved 580kph on deck.

The Bf109K-4 in il2 achieves about 560, the C3 exactly 580.

So, at sea level at least the C3 is NOT slower than the standard K-4. However, the C3 only gives us the standard realistic K4 now, as opposed to the undermodelled version.

The K-4 C3 and all other German planes are correct relative to each other, all suffering the same amount from the standard German plane undermodelling.

Not much has changed, only peoples perceptions of it. No more reason to whine than there was before. All undermodelling standards still in place, nothing worse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

10% Fuel ?

Check out the tempest its **** compared to k4 either of them ?

Is that historical I wonder ?

K4 seems far superior to tempest imo manuverability mainly

DaimonSyrius
02-10-2006, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Danschnell:
Oleg may be offended, and if he is I'm sorry, but I still feel German planes are too slow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think Oleg Maddox would be offended because you (or I, for that matter, or some other player) feel German planes are too slow.

However, I can understand that someone who is an aeronautical engineer and an airman, having put a lot of effort and technical expertise into his work (which you are enjoying for free in the last several patches and addons), may find irritating this kind of smart thinking:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Remember Oleg is Russian and he'll always favour the reds. When the day comes that Oleg ever makes and German plane go as fast as it should .../... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That may be offensive, and it certainly is tiring.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
lol see you in 8 months when 4.04 comes out.. back to Bf2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bye-bye Gwalker, take care and don't let the door hit your back on your way out.

Cheers,
S.

AFJ_Locust
02-10-2006, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Danschnell:
I apologised to Oleg personally.

Without being offensive, yes Gwalker70 this is what I mean about Allied planes always staying ahead of Axis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude your high man !!!!!!

All axis ac are better faster & df better than most allied not counting Russian

I fly bolth sides I get 4 to 1 kill in german ac on average maybe 2 to 1 on alied , German ac are better period !!!!!!1

zaelu
02-10-2006, 06:36 AM
Man... I just hope BoB will have failures... wearing... bad fuel... fatigue (like Lock ON) simulated... then it will be peace.

What? your plane is not as good as it is written in manual? What manual? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SeaFireLIV
02-10-2006, 06:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
lol see you in 8 months when 4.04 comes out.. back to Bf2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that says it all, doesn`t it. BF2 is nice graphically and `fun` to play, but you go out in the real world and try anything in that you`ll be in for a VERY rude surprise! BF2 is just one completely unrealistic arcade game, almost on the same level as UT2004 (which at least is based on science-fiction)!

I`m glad you don`t like IL2/FB/PF! Cos when you do, I`ll be going!


As for not catching up aircraft, I have this problem a lot in Russian planes when chasing German! I really think the issue isn`t so simple as some make out here.

carguy_
02-10-2006, 07:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
lol see you in 8 months when 4.04 comes out.. back to Bf2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Says a lot really.

Brain32
02-10-2006, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I fly bolth sides I get 4 to 1 kill in german ac on average maybe 2 to 1 on alied , German ac are better period !!!!!!1
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My sig says it all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p1ngu666
02-10-2006, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I fly bolth sides I get 4 to 1 kill in german ac on average maybe 2 to 1 on alied , German ac are better period !!!!!!1
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My sig says it all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
must admit that in the coop i flew last night the ai 109s where dancing about like ki43's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. ai hax roll rate helps alot, they can roll really fast at any speed.

oleg what chance of a super sexy yak 9u "late" ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

yaks are my favourite russian fighter series, also like the cheeky i16 and sexy mig3 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2006, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
Wow this must be a good patch. Bloo is whining again since 4.02... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL

OldMan____
02-10-2006, 08:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Danschnell:
Hmmmmmm. Well I wouldn't have posted what I did if I hadn't got the test results that I did. I must be doing something wrong somewhere but seriously guys I never get the historical values when I test the German planes, whereas you all seem to get historical values. Don't make sense.

I use TAS, 10% fuel, SL, Crimea, noon, no wind, prop pitch 100%, empty guns.

So why do I always get slower and end up insulting Oleg? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you at leat know that you should NOT measure speed with speed bar? But using the ctrl-f1 view ?

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2006, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 3.JG51_Stecher:
It's funny, a lot of people were either excited, or worried about this plane's arrival. As it turns out the 4.02m 1.80ata K-4 has the same exact speed at 6000m as the 4.03m 1.98ata K-4, 724km/h. And the 4.02m Kurfust's SL speed of 585 is right in the middle of the 4.03m Kurfurts' SL speeds of 580 and 590 km/h. It's practically the same plane. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Gee I wonder why?

S! Butch2k! (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6071064704/p/13)

SAVVY?

p1ngu666
02-10-2006, 09:13 AM
the supercharger probably cant keep the boost up that high

butch2k
02-10-2006, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
the supercharger probably cant keep the boost up that high </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exact, expect to get similar performance at high alt between the two versions once the 1.98ata decrease back to 1.8ata. At about 7500m the two a/c should achieve about same speed IIRC.

lrrp22
02-10-2006, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 3.JG51_Stecher:
3000m
1.80ata - 643
1.98ata - 654

5000m
1.80ata - 692
1.98ata - 704

6000m
1.80ata - 717
1.98ata - 724

So the new one is marginally faster all the way up to 6000m, above which the 1.80ata K-4 goes ahead slightly within 500m. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It looks like speeds are very close to the historical estimates, even too high at 6000m for the 1.8ata version. 717 kph/446 mph at 6000m is what the 1.98 ata version should reach, not the 1.8 version. The 1.8 version should reach 717 kph at around 7400m.

LRRP

SUPERAEREO
02-10-2006, 10:01 AM
Great post from Oleg. 100% Respect.


S!

Danschnell
02-10-2006, 10:10 AM
yes oldman____ I'm aware of that.

p1ngu666
02-10-2006, 10:15 AM
dan do u trim?

u need to trim to get the max speeds, and roc, plus it makes it much easier to fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

TheGozr
02-11-2006, 03:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:

In terms of Sexy looking aircraft I like very much Mustang and less Yak-9U post war production. In the last case it doesn't means that I will model Yak-9U to the trials before manufacture speciafications. We model it with all the problems of aircraft of the first series. And still there isn't present the series of 1945 winter-spring that almost hadn't them and match manufacture specifications... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

===========

"I will model Yak-9U to the trials before manufacture speciafications. We model it with all the problems of aircraft of the first series"?????????????????? Well this has to change and i hope asap for example at the patch 4.04 because there is two mistake in here first serie of yak9U is already wrong with specs . So basicly it's like designing Dornier ( with out problems, perfect working state which is quazy impossible to get real fact of flight and make it into the sim, make Boost aircrafts , special octane fuel and finaly make the yak with problem of the first serie "WITH" 107A... I rather have a
"light" Yak9U first serie with 105 than a broken Yak9U 107
The yak9UT is not part of the first serie 105 and 107 but late 107.

Oleg we need to work on that, Thxs.


http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/5631044704/p/2

Marcel_Albert
02-12-2006, 06:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marcel_Albert:
P-39 field mod would be a P-39 armor without much of the armor as you should know , retrieved machine guns , and engine running at higher RPM than standard model , this plane was more lighter , faster , more acceleration than the standard factory spec P-39 we have in game , it would be good , this plane is one of the most important plane in Eastern front http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, we do have the VVS versions which perform better then standard P-39. However, later P-39s were made for VVS exclusivelly and soviets were included in design process. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I respect your opinion mate , and i thank you for answering , but i disagree with you .

The Russians advised Bell company prior to the the Q model of P-39 that fought early 44 and after (Q-10 , Q-22 etc.. ) .

The P-39 N we have in game has exactly the same specification as the factory P-39N figures , it has armor , it has all the machineguns default in standard version , it has default RPM (i don't know the correct term in English , i think it 's to "unsling" the engine , Russians used to do that , while most Engine were supposed to last 60 hours and over in the US manuals , Soviet pilots were using the engine at its maximum possibilities and the engine wasn't lasting half the length it should )


The P-39 we have , and bear in mind that , Western planes included , no Allied plane made more victory than the P-39 (not all together , but individual victory with one plane ) , it's the fighter with the most individual victories of WWII in the Allied side (Pokryshkin) .

And add to this that for Victories confirmation , USSR had the most Severe system of confirmation in the world : you needed a material proof , confirmation of wingman was completely useless without material proof (wreck) unlike the LW or USAAF , so it means that ALL planes downed over the sea (Baltic front ) , ALL planes downed by VVS over Germany , ALL planes downed over Russia occupied territory by the Reich were NOT counted , overclaiming was made almost impossible, the scores might be a lot higher .

Now add to this , the "Group" victories like Safonov , Fadeev was doing and many aces with him , attributing victories to his wingmen , for the squadron .

I have to check about the P-39 D2 (the best P-39 we have ingame with the Q-10) if it's a standard version , or already modified , but for the "N" , it's definetely a standard version , cause its performance is at the complete opposite of any testimony of Russian veterans , they say (Golodnikov ,Pokryshkin etc... ) they had combat speed exactly equivalent to the BF 109 G , they say they accelerated as good , they say they were as fast and managed often to catch up with BF-109 , which isn't the case in the sim , (ok , i know pilots accounts are often flawed , but when everybody tells you that , and when the plane is the best fighter on the eastern front , something might be true ) .
They say about its drawbacks that it was bad in vertical manoeuvre , spin tendency at slow speed , bad climb rate , fragile engine , hard to master 37mm marksmanship etc..

Regards ,

Marcel_Albert
02-12-2006, 06:55 AM
I forgot to say that gun cams were also taken into account so not all planes weren't counted over ennemy territory when the wreck wasn't possible to find for confirmation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

I apologize for being off-topic , maybe i should create a separate thread to ask for a single 1943 P-39 field mod. version in 4.04m version , it would be really nice for us VVS virtual pilots , it would require a bit of additionnal modelling though (retrieved machine guns , less armor) so i doubt it will ever appear , unlike Yak3 Vk107 or I-16 type 29 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Willey
02-12-2006, 07:03 AM
I tried to dig out some data. I could swear I had another speed table with Both C3 and B4 variants with 12159 and 12199 prop each. Anyway, these here should show enough:

http://home.arcor.de/eldur/bilder/k4-1.jpg

I marked all important things. This is a K-4 with B4 fuel, 1800hp max, and a standard VDM/9-12159 propeller. Below are the topspeeds with Sondernotleistung:
580 w/1750hp @ 0m (max HP of 1800 is at ~2000m!)
710 w/1565hp @ 7500m

http://home.arcor.de/eldur/bilder/k4-2.jpg

This is a russian chart from the TSAGI book. The speed line doesn't originally go down to 0m, so I extended it. The speeds are with Sondernotleistung, and most probably it was a C3 machine, because of the higher speeds.

611 @ 0m
728 @ 6000m

Interestung is the lower altitude at which it has it's max speed and particularly the deck speed. My guess: This C3 K-4 also had the wider VDM/9-12199 propeller.

And now my final guess regarding FB:

Initially, our K-4 could do 580 on the deck and 725 at 6k. What a strange miix http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Later, it's deck speed was rised a little bit - after some discussions here about the props.
So my guess is, we have:

K-4 '44: 1800hp and 12199 prop
K-4 '45: 2000hp and 12159 prop

That would at least explain the little difference at sea level and the even slower C3 at altitude.

My wish: Just exchange the propellers. Expected performance:

Fuel: deck / alt
B4: 580 / 710
C3: 611 / 728

That would give the new one more of an advantage over the old one - and - it would lower the old one's performance to realistic values http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The speeds I could achieve on Krim QMB were like:

585 / 725 for the old one
595 / 705 for the new one

Just roughly.

Kurfurst__
02-12-2006, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 3.JG51_Stecher:
Crimea, 1200, Clear, No Wind, 100% fuel, Default, 4.03m, km/h TAS

SL
Bf 109K-4 1.80ata - 580
Bf 109K-4 1.98ata - 590

6500m
Bf 109K-4 1.80ata - 730
Bf 109K-4 1.98ata - 724 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Appearantly our "1,98" 109K is still undermodelled in Sea Level speed. Its still the same speed as before, still 15kph too slow.

The 1,8ata one is still 15 kph too slow, too.

IE. speeds at SL

1,8ata - 595kph IRL vs 580 in-game
1,98ata - 607kph IRL vs 590 in-game

At 6000, the 1,8ata is too fast, the 1,98ata is quite OK.


Real life data :

Conditions of aircraft :
http://butch2k4.free.fr/109k4-perf1.jpg

Speed performance at 1,8ata, 595 kph at SL.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Kurfurst/5026-xx_K-4-6_SPEED_DBSonder.jpg

Take note that it appears we have in game the speed of the 109K-6 heavy fighter line...


Performance at 1,98ata :

http://butch2k4.free.fr/109k4-perf2.jpg

607 kph at SL, vs. 595 kph we have in game...


Conclusions
The 1.8ata 109K SL speed should be increase by 15kph, the 6000m altitude speed reduced accordingly to the RL data.

The 1.98ata 109K SL should be increased by ca 15 kph to 607 kph, otherwise it seems correct.

luftluuver
02-12-2006, 08:27 AM
I don't see any WNr listed on those graphs. Maybe they are calculated data. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

waffen-79
02-12-2006, 01:23 PM
@OLEG

Hey Oleg, thanks for the new FREE patch I'm really enjoying it.

PLEASE tell these guys NOT to BAN the german jets and the D0-335, I'm sure a lot of effort was made to include them in the SIM.

@Everybody else

If you are getting more victories with blue planes than red, then you're doing SOMETHING REALLY WRONG, I can score more with a La-7 3xB-20 and a Spit IX 25lbs (I did my homework I tested those planes with 4.03) than with my Prefered Bf-109K-4 and Fw-190A-9. (And I won't even talk about the Yak-3P '45)

Also the red plane I like the most is the P-39 series(its shape) I would love to be an ace in that ride (I also fly P-47,40,B25,A20) but for the life of me I can't even fly it, If I try to turn I stall any advice?

waffen out

darkhorizon11
02-13-2006, 10:52 AM
I love the way the blue guys say the German planes "feel" to slow. How many have even seen a Messer or a Focke in real life? You can't really feel anything unless you've flown it before IRL...

I still don't see the whining about the late war FWs either. I crossed over to the dark side which I've been doing frequently lately, and I must say what a great plane! Especially the A9, a great balance of fast and manuverable... I don't see what the complaining is about, it pretty much burns Mustangs and Jugs...

I'm trying to look at the argument without bias and I honestly I don't see what there is to whine about.

OldMan____
02-13-2006, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
I love the way the blue guys say the German planes "feel" to slow. How many have even seen a Messer or a Focke in real life? You can't really feel anything unless you've flown it before IRL...

I still don't see the whining about the late war FWs either. I crossed over to the dark side which I've been doing frequently lately, and I must say what a great plane! Especially the A9, a great balance of fast and manuverable... I don't see what the complaining is about, it pretty much burns Mustangs and Jugs...

I'm trying to look at the argument without bias and I honestly I don't see what there is to whine about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simply ebcause the games does not handle ery well the classic techniques for fighting in FW. You are testing a FW like a P47. It was NOT made to used that way, and currently that is only way it is efective. Simple. Also give a look at other Antons. Try to explain why A4 is faster than A8 at most heights.

HelSqnProtos
02-13-2006, 07:59 PM
S~!

Oleg layed the smackdown on the luftwhiners and they are still going.

Amazing........ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


Mr. Maddox I for one would LOVE to hear the other 90%. Thanks again.

edgflyer
02-18-2006, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!

Oleg layed the smackdown on the luftwhiners and they are still going.

Amazing........ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


Mr. Maddox I for one would LOVE to hear the other 90%. Thanks again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty sad your still going on and on. I do not see you trying to smack down allied pilots. Quit running amuck this board and let others speek. You have no authority on these boards.

jagdmailer
02-18-2006, 10:04 AM
Wholeheartedly seconded!

Jagd

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!

Oleg layed the smackdown on the luftwhiners and they are still going.

Amazing........ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


Mr. Maddox I for one would LOVE to hear the other 90%. Thanks again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty sad your still going on and on. I do not see you trying to smack down allied pilots. Quit running amuck this board and let others speek. You have no authority on these boards. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

edgflyer
02-18-2006, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by waffen-79:
@OLEG

Hey Oleg, thanks for the new FREE patch I'm really enjoying it.

PLEASE tell these guys NOT to BAN the german jets and the D0-335, I'm sure a lot of effort was made to include them in the SIM.

@Everybody else

If you are getting more victories with blue planes than red, then you're doing SOMETHING REALLY WRONG, I can score more with a La-7 3xB-20 and a Spit IX 25lbs (I did my homework I tested those planes with 4.03) than with my Prefered Bf-109K-4 and Fw-190A-9. (And I won't even talk about the Yak-3P '45)

Also the red plane I like the most is the P-39 series(its shape) I would love to be an ace in that ride (I also fly P-47,40,B25,A20) but for the life of me I can't even fly it, If I try to turn I stall any advice?

waffen out </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ones that get more kills with blue may just be used to flying them more or the way the plane fly matches their style of stick work. I myself do not fly the axis planes well enough to fly them. Come to think of, I do not fly the allied planes good enough either.

jermin122
02-18-2006, 08:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by waffen-79:

@Everybody else

If you are getting more victories with blue planes than red, then you're doing SOMETHING REALLY WRONG, I can score more with a La-7 3xB-20 and a Spit IX 25lbs (I did my homework I tested those planes with 4.03) than with my Prefered Bf-109K-4 and Fw-190A-9. (And I won't even talk about the Yak-3P '45) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactlly!

Scoring more easier in blue planes? R u kidding?

Badsight.
02-18-2006, 10:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGozr:
Well this has to change and i hope asap for example at the patch 4.04 because there is two mistake in here first serie of yak9U is already wrong with specs .

Oleg we need to work on that, Thxs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
ROTFL Gozr - is there anything you dont get wrong with this plane ?

look at what the man said :
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:

In the last case it doesn't means that I will model Yak-9U to the trials before manufacture speciafications. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>