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Fighterduck
01-04-2005, 12:30 PM
Hi all!
I'm new down there so be patient with me please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
I have PF since 3 weeks ca. and I finally love it!Simply amazing!
But I have a little technical problem: I always use fighters planes ( I love the Sm. Spitfire )but I saw that the B-25 light bomber is flyable.I try to use it but....not able to use the bombing visor. I played B-17 the mighty eight for years and I thought that the visor worked like in b-17 : you find the target, you fix the visor on, you wait until the two arrow of the visor coincide and "clack" bombs away!
But no way...I don't understant how to use the b-25 bombingsight.

Could you please help me?

thank you!!

AWL_Spinner
01-04-2005, 12:46 PM
Glad you're enjoying this sim! Here's a quick guide for you,

a) First, you have to map a whole load of keys. The minimum being :-

Bombsight Airspeed (or Velocity) (+/-)
Bombsight Altitude (+/-)
Bombsight Elevation (+/-)
Bombsight Mode
Level Stabiliser

b) Level the aircraft on course to the target and at your desired altitude, trimmed properly. A good altitude is between 10,000 and 14,000ft (approx 3-4000m). When you have a good fix on your track and you are trimmed, engage the LEVEL STABILISER (NOT the Autopilot!).

c) Move to the bombardier position.

d) Set the bombsight parameters for the drop. This will be altitude in metres or feet (feet for the B25) using the BOMBSIGHT ALTITUDE keys, and airspeed in TAS (True Airspeed rather than Indicated Airspeed, you will need to convert this) using the BOMBSIGHT VELOCITY keys. I won't go into TAS/IAS and the conversion in depth here but suffice it to say your TAS gets increasingly faster than your IAS the higher you go.

As a sample to get you started (and these figures reflect that the B25 sight in PF is a little wonky and you must subtract approximately 10% from the true TAS for the bombsight), aim for 200mph indicated (cockpit instruments or speedbar) at 13,150ft (4,000m) and the TAS input will be approximately 230mph.

e) Shift-F1 to enter bombsight view.

f) Swing the elevation up using the BOMBSIGHT ELEVATION keys until you've sighted your target. As the target passes under the crosshairs at 50-60 degree elevation change the BOMBSIGHT MODE to Automatic. Only do this once you've set your parameters in (c)!

g) Watch the crosshairs track the target, if your figures are accurate they should move at approximately the same speed as the target. If it's tracking fast or slow, your TAS input is most likely suspect. You can alter this if necessary. You can switch the sight in and out of AUTOMATIC mode as desired before the drop.

h) When you reach the optimum point according to your inputs, the bombsight will release the bombs automatically.

i) Get the hell out of dodge, or swing the bombsight down to zero degrees elevation using the BOMBSIGHT ELEVATION keys and watch the bombs fall and impact.

You can also do this manually using the scope and a knowledge of elevations.

I've produced a very in depth guide to this with missions and track files for my squad, let me know if you'd like me to send it to you.

Cheers, Spinner

Fighterduck
01-04-2005, 12:59 PM
WOW!
thank you a lot! that's a really awesome "tutorialanswer" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
It seem to work how a B-17 bombsight, but, yes, if you have a training mission to learn how to use the b-25 bombsight I'll be wery happy to revice it! so i'll finally be able to use the b-25.

Thank you!!!

ah. what do you mean with "using the scope and a knowledge of elevations" ?

Sorry but bombing it's new for me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

AWL_Spinner
01-04-2005, 01:03 PM
Our site appears to be crapped out at the moment, when it's back I'll post the link to the guide, it features track files and missions for the complete bomber training experience http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I should maybe publicise this a bit better, it's good to have fellow bombers in the game!

Cheers, Spinner

Fighterduck
01-04-2005, 01:12 PM
oh thank you!!!really really thank you!
No prob for the site...i'll wait!
I always love to use bomber, but b-25 bombsight was really a problem for me... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
But now I will learn to use it: love this plane!
So another time...thank you!

ExtraG
01-04-2005, 01:16 PM
Hello Fighterduck,
Spinner told you all the necessary things, so I just wanted to welcome you on this forum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I hope that you will enjoy the sim as we all enjoy it and that we'll be able to meet online soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fighterduck
01-04-2005, 01:28 PM
Thank you ExtraG!
I didn't play Il2 very much cause my old pc wasn't enough.
But now I can play PF on my new brand HightEnd PC http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
I really like it! The planes, the scenario, the graphic....But ho I said, the B-25 ,that I really love, given to me a little bit of problem.

I'm sure that I will really apreciate PF how I'm sure that I will apreciate the PF community!

Fighterduck
01-04-2005, 01:45 PM
Looking that we are talking about the b-25, i have a little hystorical question;
witch was the operating altitude of the b-25?

J_Weaver
01-04-2005, 02:30 PM
I *think* that medium bombers like the B-25 usually opereated from medium to low altitude and left the high altitude bombing to the heavies.

Also here's another tip. When on my bomb run I use combat flaps along with the level stabalizer. It keeps you from loosing altitude. If you noticed the B-25 normally flies in a nose up attitude. The combat flaps will bring the nose closer to level. I've read that real
B-25 pilots used this to help get the last bit of fuel out of their tanks.

Also airwarfare.com has a manuel bombing guide which has been a big help to me.

The reason you had trouble before is that the
B-25 uses the same bombsite as the He-111. The nordon bombsite used by the USAAF isn't modeled in game.

Good luck and happy flying! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fighterduck
01-04-2005, 02:53 PM
First: thank you Spinner! the b-25 documentation is really much than I was expected! Very accurate very well made! with this help I will really appreciate fliyng the b-25!
So another time ..THANK YOU!!

Second: also thank to Weaver! I will try the flaps tip on my next bombing run.


really like the forum!

thanks

Latico
01-04-2005, 04:31 PM
It's nice to see some people that are more interested in groundpounding than of being Aces.

Hopper_35thCAG
01-04-2005, 07:40 PM
S! I am interested in that mission/tutorial pack you mentioned. My air group has converted from CFS2,CFS3 and need some practice using these bombsights. Skip bombing is pretty easy for us since we fly low most of the time as was done by the 499thBS "Bats outta Hell" The tutorial up above really answered all of the questions I had about using that bombsight. Thank you for the information.

icrash
01-04-2005, 07:53 PM
Nice to see B-25 fans. I usually hit from low level because the bombsight thing drives me nuts (user error there). Here is something I wish Oleg would turn us looses with. I also found one with HVARS mounted in a 3 pack on each side of the fuselage but haven't posted it anywhere yet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/icrash/tinytim.bmp

NZ_Coyote
01-04-2005, 11:07 PM
I was about to ask about B25 bopmbing but thanks to this post all my questions have been answered (I think).
I couldn't figure out how to fly the plane straight & level and use the bomb sight, I tried using auto pilot to find the bomb sight controls didnt work and the bombs dropped automaticly. The "LEVEL STABILISER" appears to be my answer.
Thanks guys.

Fighterduck
01-05-2005, 02:49 AM
I always liked to fly "big" planes: I was so exited when B-17 come out in stores. Finally I was able to use a 4 engine plane, with a massive weaponery. it was "over the top" for me.
I like much more hear "Bombs away" when i pull the trigger that to take down other planes ( I eventually can do it with the turrets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).
Fliyng through the ennemy flak tring to reach your objective it's simply amazing: and when some zeros attack the formation engaging the escort and your machine-guns....wooooa!
But this is my opinion, fighters aces are really important; in online play, fighter pilot is the choiche. But i so appreciated to play a bomber-escorted mission with my friends. Intelligent escort is the best thing you can have.

Kvarium
01-05-2005, 06:28 AM
This is a chart I made for Indicated air speed / True air speed. This is just a direct conversion from the metric (meters / kmph) chart that came with IL-2 so it's probably not accurate but it does give you an idea.

I'm not very good with formating text in these forums so I don't know how this is going to come out, I hope it's readable.

K

ft/mph 60 90 120 150 180 200 210 240 270 300 330 360 420
1640 62 93 124 155 186 206 217 248 279 310 341 372 434
3281 64 96 128 160 192 213 224 256 288 320 352 383 448
4921 66 99 132 165 198 219 230 263 296 329 362 341 461
6562 68 102 136 170 203 226 238 271 305 340 373 407 475
8202 70 105 140 175 209 233 244 280 314 349 384 419 489
9843 72 108 143 179 215 239 251 287 323 359 395 431 503
11483 74 110 148 184 221 246 258 295 332 369 406 443 517
13123 76 113 151 190 227 253 265 303 341 379 416 454 530
14764 78 116 155 194 233 259 272 311 350 389 427 466 544
16404 80 119 160 199 239 266 279 319 359 398 438 478 558
18045 82 122 163 204 245 272 286 326 367 408 449 490 572
19685 83 125 167 209 251 279 293 334 376 418 460 502 586
21325 86 128 171 214 257 285 299 343 385 428 471 514 599
22966 88 131 175 219 263 292 307 350 394 438 482 526 613
24606 89 134 179 224 269 298 313 358 403 448 493 537 626
26247 91 137 183 229 274 305 320 366 412 457 503 549 640
27887 94 140 187 233 280 311 327 374 421 467 514 561 654
29528 95 143 191 239 2866 318 334 382 430 477 525 572 668
31168 97 146 195 244 292 325 341 389 438 487 536 584 682
32808 103 154 205 257 308 342 359 410 462 513 565 616 718

AWL_Spinner
01-05-2005, 07:18 AM
1.Java_Platypus (sorry if that's the wrong way round) has an excellent IAS/TAS conversion spreadsheet.

I'd included in my bumper bombing training package with other goodies I'd picked up from here - although I've referenced the relevant sources I thought it best to ask first (including the chap above) which is why I've pulled the link until I hear from the other authors.

I'll publish a cut down version with just my stuff in it tonight I think, while I wait to hear.

I'm very keen to encourage more bomber pilots. It makes for a much much better online experience. Bombers tend to mean higher altitudes, escorts and intercepts rather than meaningless tree-top furballs.

Cheers, Spinner

VF2_Snowman
01-05-2005, 08:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fighterduck:
Looking that we are talking about the b-25, i have a little hystorical question;
witch was the operating altitude of the b-25? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just watched a show on the History Channel yesterday about the Burma Bridge Busters. Some of the pilots from that squadron said when they first started out in the theater they tried to bomb bridges from 10-15,000 ft but most of the bombs missed. They finally developed a technique of coming in low, climbing a little before reaching the target and then diving to the target to release bombs. They were releasing bombs at 250-500 ft altitude. So for large targets I would say 10-15,000 ft was normal bombing altitude but for smaller tagets you have to get right down there.

BTW, the pilots also said several B25s were lost when the time delay fuses on the bombs failed and the planes were caught in their own bomb blast.

VR_Cutter
01-05-2005, 09:40 AM
Not as fancy as some I am sure, but here is a link to a bomber guide I wrote myself.

Cutter's Bombing Guide (http://www.mnstarfire.com/ww2/il2/documentation/CuttersBombingGuide.html)

Note it does not refer to the B25 since I wrote this before we had the B25 but the He-111 stuff applies to the B25 as the site is the same.

Fighterduck
01-05-2005, 10:21 AM
Thanks to all!
Now I have a lot...a mountain of documentation!
Really have to thank all!
Now I have only to practice a little bit with the b-25...but with this material i'm sure that i will really enjoy it!

thanks!

When I will be really able to use the b-25 like a real bomber http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif i will create a b-25 site with all a b-25 fan need to have.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> bombs at 250-500 ft altitude <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>..really low...with some antiaircraft defense it's a really hard work to do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Osirisx9
01-05-2005, 10:34 AM
Ahhhhhhhh More B-25 junkies. This plane just absolutely kicks bu_tt . I didn't know there were so many of us who really like this bird and sneaking behind enemy lines, blowing up stuff and then sneaking back home. I fly this aircraft 95 pecent of the time on and offline. Even though I get my share of kills online flying fighters, turning around in circles trying to shoot someone down gets boring for me. Trying to sneak around in a B-25 and hit objectives then sneaking back to home base is what I love to do. As for the B-25, it is my favorite aircraft of all time. If this were the only aircraft in the game I could fly, I would still pay full price for this sim. I love the way she B-25 looks, flys, and i love the history. And whoever modeled the aircraft for IL2+Aces+PF , you are a God. As for bombing, I like to sneak in at tree top level... About 200-300 feet off the deck. With practice I've become deadly acurate on bomb runs. I'm pretty successful using the bombsite above 5000 feet. But I just prefer the low alt bombing.

Salute to all B-25 jocks

RAF238thOsiris
www.warbirdsofprey.org (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org)

Kapt_A
01-05-2005, 10:39 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=3181017342&r=6171090952#6171090952

Fighterduck
01-05-2005, 10:49 AM
I have to admit that low altitude bombing it's a little bit more exciting : i personally use 3/4 throttle for those runs.
But it's so nice to use the bombsight! I always loved it in B-17 , when you are above the target, you pull the button and...."bombs away"...and you watch the damages you cause.
A lillte thing I appreciate using bombers is thtat you have an escort ( not always ): but having an escort during the game, make it more complete and intense.

Fighterduck
01-05-2005, 10:57 AM
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/B-25.html

just found it! mabye you have already watched it but the "how to fly the b-25" video is a really autentic training movie. Must see it

Hopper_35thCAG
01-05-2005, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I like to sneak in at tree top level... About 200-300 feet off the deck. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, that works so well doesn't it? My air group did that all the time back in the cfs2 days. The zeros would be waiting at 25,000ft for us and we'd come blasting in at 50-100ft, strafe the heck outta their airfield and be gone before they could get down to our altitude. I'd love to fly with some of you guys. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Osirisx9
01-05-2005, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hopper_35thCAG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I like to sneak in at tree top level... About 200-300 feet off the deck. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, that works so well doesn't it? My air group did that all the time back in the cfs2 days. The zeros would be waiting at 25,000ft for us and we'd come blasting in at 50-100ft, strafe the heck outta their airfield and be gone before they could get down to our altitude. I'd love to fly with some of you guys. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that we have the official patch, Warbirds of Prey is gearing up for our official launching. We are a full switch server and our missions are not just about turning around in circles trying to shoot down another fighter and running to home base when all the ammo is gone. In fact the server is geared toward ground attack so flying bombers are a must on the server because you will not win the mission by just shooting down fighters. Our missions take place in bad weather and at night too. All of this is great for pilots who love to fly bombers. On the standard DF server bombers dont have a chance, especially with Icons and the sun at high noon all the time. It is real easy to sneak around in a B-25 and blow up lots of stuff on a full real server. BTW If you want to give it a shot check us out.

RAF238thOsiris
www.warbirdsofprey.org (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org)

Fighterduck
01-06-2005, 02:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>flying bombers are a must on the server because you will not win the mission by just shooting down fighters <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

just love those missions!!! When my new connection will be installed...I'll try it!

When I use low altitude bombing run I do it at 60m hight with full throttle ( 380-400 km/h) it's not really historically correct, but it's extremly exciting and works perfectly! I use Low bombing run to elude the ennemy radar defense ( i know i knwo, no radar in PF,...eheeh, but a little bit of fantasy isn't bad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).

Joe-90
01-31-2005, 06:30 AM
After much testing of the Norden Site, I now fly at 10,000ft with IAS at 218mph. Set TAS to 250mph (even though the ASI says 260mph).

I mad a training video to show this in operation, see HERE (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=65710358&m=1601081072)

Tooz_69GIAP
01-31-2005, 06:53 AM
Bombing rocks!!!

The other night in the FBOW server, I decided to go do some serious explosive stuff over a German harbour.

I took the TB-3, loaded her up with as much as she could carry (about 5,000kgs!!), climbed to 3,000m and headed on my way the 120km or so to the target to drop my load flying at a serene 170kmh!!!

And I did this in the dark!!!!

I got there, hit my target from 3,150m, and then landed. I was happy.

indylavi
01-31-2005, 10:04 AM
I'm a bomber pilot myself. I usually don't fly online except for coops with my friends. I have found this chart and some go info over at the Bombs Away forum. Follow this link for a B25 chart and some good info. I printed this chart out and use it. As a result my bombing has become a lot more accurate.
http://www.bombs-away.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14461

AWL_Spinner
01-31-2005, 10:10 AM
Great to see bombing on the up, and that online war servers like FBOW recognise the importance of it. Warclouds too has become a much more varied and interesting environment recently.

The new medium bombers/CAS aircraft in PF have really helped a lot. Hopefully BoB will be coded for realistic multi-engine behaviour from the outset.

TC_Stele
01-31-2005, 10:57 AM
the greatergreen and Western Front servers also have really great bomber maps too. Stats put me at having over 200 ground targets for greatergreen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Hairball_1
01-31-2005, 11:11 AM
One thing that helps immensely, is rudder trim.

Once you are fairly lined up with the target, and have the Level Stabilizer on, you can steer the plane dead nuts over the target without altering your speed or altitude.

I play almost exclusively on the GreaterGreen server, and the gents there have been kind enough to include bombers in nearly every scenario.

I fly the B-25 90% of the time. If not that, then the He-111 or Stuka.

If none of those are available, I'll take an IL-2, Bf-110, P-38, or P-47 for ground-pounding. I've even used Mustangs for bombing. A 2,000 lb bombload is nothing to sneeze at!

indylavi
01-31-2005, 11:15 AM
Spinner could you post those trk files and things once your site gets back up. I'd like to take a look at them as well. Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

badaboom.1
01-31-2005, 11:51 AM
HELLO Indylavi! I'm using Drillings bomb chart also,unfourtunitly for me I'm not having great results bombing under 4000 ft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif But I did pick ups some good tips on this thread ,combat flaps/-10% TAS for B-25 ect.THANKS,I also am getting a real appreciation for this bird!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifIt's very durable!!!I made it home on one engine a fuel leak& half my tail shot off after a bomb run on a Japanese carrier,oh well practice,practice.

indylavi
01-31-2005, 12:08 PM
Yeah it takes a lot of practice. I've been flying these for over a month and still not perfect. Then again bomber pilots usually don't live long enough to make it perfect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif There is nothing better than hearing flak pound your plane and knowing you have to stay level to hit your target. Flying back is the best part. Nothing gives me greater satisfaction than landing a bomber with one engine on fire and no elevator control. Having to use flaps and the torque of the engines to control the plane. Now that's flying http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Others can turn and burn if they want but I'll keep my big bird http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

AWL_Spinner
01-31-2005, 12:23 PM
indylavi,

All that stuff's in my signature; see the link for the bombing guide. Should be no problems downloading it but let me know if you encounter any difficulties. It includes all sorts of goodies.

And yeah, forgot to mention Greatergreen - lots of ground pounding goodness on there too!

indylavi
01-31-2005, 02:06 PM
Thanks, File downloaded fine. I just forgot to unzip the full thing. duh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Thanks again

p1ngu666
01-31-2005, 08:17 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif @ info http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif