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hsj
09-10-2004, 06:58 AM
I remember this being an issue a while back, the AI not respecting certain limits of aircraft like climb rate and such to compensate for the poor AI. Often in online campaigns you would see your perform impossible manouvers.

Having been away for a while, is this still an issue?

If I go into QMB for some 1on1 and pick an enemy fighter to fly against with historically known weaknesses, can I be certain the aircraft will still have those weaknessess for me to exploit?

hsj
09-10-2004, 06:58 AM
I remember this being an issue a while back, the AI not respecting certain limits of aircraft like climb rate and such to compensate for the poor AI. Often in online campaigns you would see your perform impossible manouvers.

Having been away for a while, is this still an issue?

If I go into QMB for some 1on1 and pick an enemy fighter to fly against with historically known weaknesses, can I be certain the aircraft will still have those weaknessess for me to exploit?

Udidtoo
09-10-2004, 07:01 AM
1 Yes
2 no

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

VW-IceFire
09-10-2004, 07:08 AM
Yeah it still cheats. It can pull some amazing manuvers at incredible speeds...

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RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

hsj
09-10-2004, 07:27 AM
so an AI's plane characteristics/attributes are basically meaningless in QMB and offline campaigns?

does it differ with AI difficulty, do ace's cheat more than rookies?

is the only time I can be sure planes comply with their in game listed characteristics and limits is when a human is flying?

----
hsj - iceland

Hawk_9th
09-10-2004, 08:35 AM
Well the other day I made a high head on pass in a zero on some b-17s right after i blew threw the formation one did a fast snap roll right on to my 6 shoting at me with all three turrets with out losing any e . I droped combat flaps and pulled a boreder line blackout turn he stayed with me a full 360 degrees when the top gunner got me . When I was bailing out i watched him do a victory roll and go form up with his wing . Ok on a serious note the Ai isnt that unreallistic but they pull some moves that make you "What in the Hell" but there predictable so there very beatable so no worries mate.

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Extreme_One
09-10-2004, 08:41 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The day AI will not cheat is the day we all own computers with 10x the power of Deep Blue.

Not just for flight-sims either...

S! Simon
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Hawk_9th
09-10-2004, 08:52 AM
Well the avg and below do not shoot on a direct head on, thet use little to no led and they break off pretty quikly if damaged. Now the vet Ai will make head on passes but not if your fireing at them, there fairly accrate and they seem to want to climb a little more .The Ace Ai doesnt fire unless it going to hit ya them buggers dont waste a bullet and there planes turn and move unware of the laws of nature. Online is the real deal if the plane out turns you and you know your in a better turning plane that means you were out flown plane and simple . thats why online is more satifacting then offline because when I go done in flames I was killed by a better pilot no cheating involed or I was surprized which means I was to affix on a target or not looking enough.

hsj
09-10-2004, 10:24 AM
ok,
I just wanted to set up a quick offline 1on1 where I could exploit weaknesses for various planes.

wanted to outclimb this plane and outturn that plane.

guess i'll have to lure a friend to fly against me online to try it out.

----
hsj - iceland

mortoma
09-10-2004, 11:37 AM
It is really not all that bad, the AI planes can only go just a hair faster than a human in the same plane and the sustained climb and zoom climb may only be just teeny bit better than a human can do in the same plane. As far as sustained turning, the AI actually has a disadvantage. I can turn tighter than any of the AI, even on ace, flying the exact saem type of plane. The AI give up turning pretty quickly too. So it's not as bad as some of the other guys are saying. Now as far as being immune to overheats and being able to shoot you in the clouds, there the AI shine. They can fly all day at full throttle and not overheat their engines. Really that's the biggest reason they can fly a certain plane faster than we can, because they never have to reduce throttle to cool off, nor do they have to open their radiators.

mortoma
09-10-2004, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hsj:
ok,
I just wanted to set up a quick offline 1on1 where I could exploit weaknesses for various planes.

wanted to outclimb this plane and outturn that plane.

guess i'll have to lure a friend to fly against me online to try it out.

----
hsj - iceland<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The basic differences are there, I mean an I-16 can't outclimb ( or outrun ) a 109, nor can a 109 outturn an I-16!!
Flying against AI the advantages and disadvantages of planes is nearly as accurate as flying agianst a human opponent. Just watch out in the clouds and don't expect them to overheat.

Atomic_Marten
09-10-2004, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
It is really not all that bad, the AI planes can only go just a hair faster than a human in the same plane and the sustained climb and zoom climb may only be just teeny bit better than a human can do in the same plane. As far as sustained turning, the AI actually has a disadvantage. I can turn tighter than any of the AI, even on ace, flying the exact same type of plane. The AI give up turning pretty quickly too. So it's not as bad as some of the other guys are saying. Now as far as being immune to overheats and being able to shoot you in the clouds, there the AI shine. They can fly all day at full throttle and not overheat their engines. Really that's the biggest reason they can fly a certain plane faster than we can, because they never have to reduce throttle to cool off, nor do they have to open their radiators.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I agree. I want to point out that TnB advantage that human playe have over AI. And it is even more noticeable if player turn on extreme low alt's.

And also I have notice that once I get on AI's six, if he is increasing distance and therefore succesfully escaping, all I have to do is fire a short accurate burst in his direction and he will most likely do some manoeuvre that will burn it's energy... and I can catch him. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

falco_cz
09-10-2004, 12:31 PM
AI cheats and will be cheating always to compensate its own tactic deficiency but AI in FB just cheats too much. Climbing with speed below stall limit with incredible AoA (Harrier always comes to my mind), decelerating like having BIG drag chute, Fw turning like Tchajka and so on. Even bombers are often able to do som amazing dogfighting.
Flying offline is ablosutely no way to get prepared for online fighting. Two totaly diffent, distant world...

jensenpark
09-10-2004, 03:38 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Extreme_One:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The day AI will _not_ cheat is the day we all own computers with 10x the power of Deep Blue.

Not just for flight-sims either...

_S! Simon_

Yea, and when that day comes, the Hal and the other computers will all be controlling us and asking each other on this forum if the humans still cheat!
]

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Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

-dying non-stop online as silverdart

SeaFireLIV
09-10-2004, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Extreme_One:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The day AI will _not_ cheat is the day we all own computers with 10x the power of Deep Blue.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I`m glad that Extreme -one and Jensen has pointed out what I was going to wearily do.

Some of these kids really do miss the point. I wonder when the day will come when they`ll understand that ALL AI in ALL games/simulations, HAVE TO cheat just to give us a challenge?

sigh....

weasel75
09-10-2004, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
The basic differences are there, I mean an I-16 can't outclimb ( or outrun ) a 109, nor can a 109 outturn an I-16!!
... Just watch out in the clouds and don't expect them to overheat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still, I-16 is damn fast when flown by AI, same for the early Zero.
And the overheating: aircrafts like I8A overheat easily (throttle at 80%++), but since this is no problem for AI they have 20% more power at hands... try to catch up with 'em!

HvyPetals
09-10-2004, 10:20 PM
How about the AI rear gunners? Are they still incredibly accurate even when the bomber is going down? Havent played since the initial IL2 came out and just installed FB yesterday.

I noticed that with the stukas im protecting, the rear gunners hardly fire at russian fighters except for a short burst and then wait a few minutes like theyre taking a walk in the park or something.

Lateralus_14
09-10-2004, 10:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
It is really not all that bad, the AI planes can only go just a hair faster than a human in the same plane and the sustained climb and zoom climb may only be just teeny bit better than a human can do in the same plane. As far as sustained turning, the AI actually has a disadvantage. I can turn tighter than any of the AI, even on ace, flying the exact saem type of plane. The AI give up turning pretty quickly too. So it's not as bad as some of the other guys are saying. Now as far as being immune to overheats and being able to shoot you in the clouds, there the AI shine. They can fly all day at full throttle and not overheat their engines. Really that's the biggest reason they can fly a certain plane faster than we can, because they never have to reduce throttle to cool off, nor do they have to open their radiators.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not in my experience. I was flying the single mission in the Me-163 Komet where you have to intercept the B-17 formation. After a couple passes at 900kph+ the Mustangs started chasing me, so I nosed down into a 70 degree dive and headed towards home.

The Mustangs followed me down at 1100kph+, and I was just barely pulling away. I got down onto the deck near the base, throttled back to slow down, and the Mustangs got within firing range and started shooting. So I throttled back up and pulled back into a vertical climb. The Mustangs followed me back up for 6000m, barely out of firing range.

It was easily the most absurd thing I've ever seen while playing AEP.

mortoma
09-10-2004, 10:57 PM
Well maybe there's a special high level cheat mode for AI P-51s when against jets only. When I fly any type of late war plane against AI P-51s, I find them easy prey, too easy. Plus, they cannot do the absurd stuff against me, When I'm in a 109 for example, that you described when you were in a Komet. Not even close. If they did I could not win against the P-51 AI when in a 109. But I do it all the time.

karost
09-12-2004, 10:00 AM
AI use the same FM rule same as a player use, but AI not make any mistake same as player did for maneuver and shooting.

AI just cheating for no blind sport , no back out and he can bail out faster then a player, when you pull a trigger to shooting they alert and dance around your gun sight , and shoot you in cloud http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Old patch)

AI ( in this game ) is the first one who teach me about deflection shooting after he show me 120 degree deflection shooting ..! I was replay that track file many time to study... that is not cheating, so that time is my first step to improve deflection shooting skill http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Now AI ace is my best target training for off line gunning skill. Oh... I play this game over 3 years since IL2 sturmovik. In my first year playing this game I have feeling same like you now.... Does AI still cheat?

So...
1 No
2 Yes

Sorry for my bad English. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
S!