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View Full Version : Sword or dagger? Dodge or counter



adarwinter
03-10-2008, 05:10 PM
A.C. gives u more options than u probably need, but its nice to have them non the less.

besides the poll i would like to ask about the differences between the options altair is given.

1) what is the difference in gameplay between the sword and the dagger? does one have an edge over the other? is it just me or is it faster to attack after a dodge with the blade? with the blade u can toss it if the guard is too far away, than where is the sword better?

2) why would i use a dodge when i can counter? is there a reason to dodge if , most of the time, u cant hit back afterwards? are there times where u can do a dodge but u cant to a counter?

3) is there a difference between dodging to the sides or dodging back? its harder to dodge to the side so i wonder if there is a benefit for it.

adarwinter
03-10-2008, 05:10 PM
A.C. gives u more options than u probably need, but its nice to have them non the less.

besides the poll i would like to ask about the differences between the options altair is given.

1) what is the difference in gameplay between the sword and the dagger? does one have an edge over the other? is it just me or is it faster to attack after a dodge with the blade? with the blade u can toss it if the guard is too far away, than where is the sword better?

2) why would i use a dodge when i can counter? is there a reason to dodge if , most of the time, u cant hit back afterwards? are there times where u can do a dodge but u cant to a counter?

3) is there a difference between dodging to the sides or dodging back? its harder to dodge to the side so i wonder if there is a benefit for it.

cooldude6681
03-10-2008, 06:26 PM
First off, it's a short sword, not a dagger.

I prefer countering with the hidden blade when my timing is good and I have a huge sync bar, but since you don't offer that option, I've chosen Long sword + counter.

1. The long sword has a stronger attack, but is slower.

2. The dodge is there to mix things up. You can, however, attack immediately after dodging, so that you'll attack when they are unprepared to deflect the blow.

3. You can dodge to the sides? Cool.

spazzoo1025
03-10-2008, 07:21 PM
1. sword=stronger, slower
knife=faster, cooler mvoes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
2. if maybe you need to heal and dont wanna miss with counter and die
3. uhhh ^^^what cooldude said^^^

ScytheOfGrim
03-10-2008, 08:45 PM
Oh, Lord...

I said it a bunch of times before!
You people just don't... read... >_>

You can dodge in any direction that you want, except towards the enemy.

There's a difference between the dodge, and the skip...

Malidictus
03-11-2008, 05:54 PM
There IS a reason to dodge instead of counter-attacking - you can't counter-attack, or even defend against a block-break. Also, dodges are a LOT easier to pull off than counters. They come out slower, yes, but the window of opportunity lasts a lot longer. It's also a good tactic to use to get out of a pinch, because guards will try to advance a lot when they manage to corner you than they will when you're out in the open.

Also, when dodging, you can counter-attack while still remaining in High Profile mode and you will block, and potentially even counter incoming attacks WHILE you're attacking.

I'm thinking of writing a guide about combat mechanics some time.

*edit*
Am I to understand that there's no mechanical difference between the long sword and the short sword, other than throwing knives and the secondary parameters of speed, power and range?

adarwinter
03-12-2008, 06:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Malidictus:

Also, when dodging, you can counter-attack while still remaining in High Profile mode and you will block, and potentially even counter incoming attacks WHILE you're attacking.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what? i didnt get that one. do u mean that u can dodge and immedietly counter another incoming attack? i didnt get it.

about a tutorial - i suggest opening a thread about combat tips. i will start it and please - post your thoguhts, malidictus. every person will add a comment of a top about sword fighting.

and i didnt see a difference in the short and long swords, damage wise. does it really take more hits with the short sword to kill?

Malidictus
03-12-2008, 10:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what? i didnt get that one. do u mean that u can dodge and immedietly counter another incoming attack? i didnt get it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pressing your weapon hand button after dodging will allow you to attack even though you are in High Profile mode and your weapon hand button is actually supposed to parry. As long as you keep pressing it, you can chain combos while in High Profile mode and attack in greater safety than you can while in Low Profile mode. Furthermore, if you attempt to attack while an attack is coming towards you, your Counter will override the combo and you will counter, or at the very least parry.

eWaster
03-12-2008, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Malidictus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what? i didnt get that one. do u mean that u can dodge and immedietly counter another incoming attack? i didnt get it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pressing your weapon hand button after dodging will allow you to attack even though you are in High Profile mode and your weapon hand button is actually supposed to parry. As long as you keep pressing it, you can chain combos while in High Profile mode and attack in greater safety than you can while in Low Profile mode. Furthermore, if you attempt to attack while an attack is coming towards you, your Counter will override the combo and you will counter, or at the very least parry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have lightning fingers, you can actually counter while dodging the enemy's attack followed by his defense break move. But you need to be extremely fast. Dodge, Counter in less than a half second.

Malidictus
03-12-2008, 04:14 PM
Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I considered myself oh so smart for noticing you can dodge the follow-up of a Guard Break http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Far as I see things, I would have been happy if Guard Breaks themselves couldn't be countered. As it stands, they come out VERY fast, but can still be countered, especially if you're expecting them. The final enemy, for instance, always opens with a guard-break, so it's easy to predict.

Blazeeee360
07-17-2010, 01:21 PM
dagger is always better....i mean think about it! MOST of the guards with the exception of seekers and some brutes carry swords, which are always countered by daggers which is much faster and deadly at a close range than a sword. a notched cinquedea beats a sword of altair any day. also there is a way to dodge and counter in quick succession.

SupremeCaptain
07-17-2010, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blazeeee360:
dagger is always better....i mean think about it! MOST of the guards with the exception of seekers and some brutes carry swords, which are always countered by daggers which is much faster and deadly at a close range than a sword. a notched cinquedea beats a sword of altair any day. also there is a way to dodge and counter in quick succession. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The topic is about Assassin's Creed 1.

GariStz
07-17-2010, 03:53 PM
Not only that the thread is for AC1, but he revived a thread from 2 years ago...

Anyway, to answer the author's questions, and not just spam:

1) The main difference is that the sword is a strong but slow weapon, while the short blade is weaker and fast. The sword does 4 hits for combo kill, while the short blade 5. The sword is better when you are fighting with less enemies 1-4, while the short blade is best for multiple enemies (5+), especially in situations when you are surrounded. The short blade got that little "quick kill" bonus feature, in witch you can throw a knife at your enemy and kill him instantly. NOTE that this applies ONLY for AC1! You cant do that in AC2!

2) The reason for the dodge move is if you are blocking all the time - the second and third class enemies (I'm talking about AC1 again!) can break your blockade and hit you and then the dodge move comes useful, that you may avoid that hit. There is not a dodge-counter move, its more like a "deflect move" - after you dodge, you can immediately attack your "stunned" enemy.

3) Dodging back and to the sides have a difference only if you gonna make a deflect move for witch I just said. Second and third class enemies can block your attack after you dodge and perform a deflect if you dodge back. But if you dodge to the sides your enemy remains open and you can hit him without being countered.

About the poll, I voted for the "The long sword" and "counter it" - even that the short blade is the better weapon with the more brutal kill animations (my top favorite moves - the double chest stab, the head stab, the kick in the stomach and stab in the back, the leg stab and sliding it all the way up, and the throat punch and slice! &lt;333) I like the sword more (favorite moves - almost all.), and since in the most part of the game you are fighting with a first class soldiers witch die with one counter attack, dodging and block it is only to make the fight more longer and interesting...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

adarwinter
07-17-2010, 05:01 PM
what a blast from the past, pffft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GarlStz - your answer only shows how far backwards the AC combat as gone. the coolest tactics from AC1 as missing in AC2 where there is no way to break through a block which renders dodging almost useless.
the small nuiances of combat are gone in AC2 in favor of a shallow button mashing combat system that not only allows u to kill anyone (but the brute) in 4 consecutive attacks (which no AI cares to interfere with) or with counters of a sword that is far easier to pull off than in AC1.

a shame such a nice combat system not only didnt evolve but actually gone dumber and dumber.

i hope brotherhood will include better enemy AI that will actually be able to do something against Ezio ... though im not counting on it.

GariStz
07-17-2010, 05:48 PM
Its GariStz...

true, while the combat in AC2 is more "colorful", a lot of the cool stuff from AC1 was removed...I guess they've took 'one step forward and two steps back'...

Not only that its easier in AC2, but tell me, having a 25 squares health meter doesn't sound "immortal" to you? Especially when 1 square breaks in 4 smaller depending on the hit, witch hit takes from 1 to 3 max squares...

The AI stupidity and the unbalanced health meter made the combat very easy in both games, making ME to make it more interesting, as doing things that I can win the fight without - dodge, strafe, deflect, throw, almost never use counters, combo kills, block...

So, I'm too very exited about seeing those problems fixed in AC:B...

adarwinter
07-18-2010, 12:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GariStz:
Its GariStz...

true, while the combat in AC2 is more "colorful", a lot of the cool stuff from AC1 was removed...I guess they've took 'one step forward and two steps back'...

Not only that its easier in AC2, but tell me, having a 25 squares health meter doesn't sound "immortal" to you? Especially when 1 square breaks in 4 smaller depending on the hit, witch hit takes from 1 to 3 max squares...

The AI stupidity and the unbalanced health meter made the combat very easy in both games, making ME to make it more interesting, as doing things that I can win the fight without - dodge, strafe, deflect, throw, almost never use counters, combo kills, block...

So, I'm too very exited about seeing those problems fixed in AC:B... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think having 25 health diamnd sounds like immortal to me more than to a lot of others http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
this is why it's MY sig that contains the health limitation tool (for PC).
25 health is too much. i tested this and actually even 3 is too much. i finished the game with a mode that allows ezio to take 4 hits before dying and could still pull it off.
in AC1 i used a trainer to limit altairs health to 2! just 2 instead of 20.

besides in AC2 if u have a mission to kill someone than u can just charge at him, kill him and immidietly get killed and still have a mission successful. u dont even need to get away. UBI made more than 2 steps back with AC2 and the sad thing is GariiiiiiiStz http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif is that they didd it on purpose. they want a game for the casual audience to finish. they are proudd how so many ppl finished their game cuz it's pi$$ easy.

UBI thinks we are crying lil girls that are too emotionally delicate that we can't take a lose once in a whlie. (lets not forget 20 medicine and escape circle as small as the distance of ezio's BO).

Blazeeee360
07-18-2010, 10:20 AM
oops my bad