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TheBandit_76
07-21-2006, 11:16 AM
Looking forward to trying out the P47s, P51s and P38s online. Any tips for shooting down huns in this sim?

TheBandit_76
07-21-2006, 11:16 AM
Looking forward to trying out the P47s, P51s and P38s online. Any tips for shooting down huns in this sim?

MEGILE
07-21-2006, 11:20 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 11:20 AM
Welcome.

Tip for shooting down huns: practice

BTW, why are we called huns? No one ever explained this to me.

Fritz

Xiolablu3
07-21-2006, 11:28 AM
USe height and speed, dont try and outturn everything or you will surely die.

What version of the game have you got?

If youwant to play online with the majority of people here, get the Il2 COmplete Edition

it contains

Forgotten Battles
Aces Expansion Pack
Pacific Fighters

All merged with the patches needed. Its only about ‚£20.

Do you have this version?

robban75
07-21-2006, 11:30 AM
Hi Bandit! Welcome! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I good idea is to fly the Fw 190 and Bf 109 offline. That way you can learn their strengths and weaknesses.

But here's my experience.

When in a P-38, P-47 or P-51, you should avoid turning combat with 109's at low speeds, at least when in the P-47 and P-51, also do not try and keep up with them in spiral climbs. The best you can do is to keep the airspeed high. The 109 has heavy controls at high speed.

The P-38/47/51 are rather superior to the Fw 190A series in most respects. The Fw 190D-9 is dangerous however. It is faster, and it climbs and accelerates better than the american fighters. However. The D-9(as well as the Antons) has a speed bug that makes them underperform quite alot between 1000m and 3000m.

Good luck! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

justflyin
07-21-2006, 11:31 AM
Great movie, but I'll have to guess that the "76" in your name means something else because http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif the movie and car are from 1977.

Welcome aboard, even though, I'm awaiting the usual "american planes are porked" and "what's with these .50s" and "the P-51 won teh war" posts that are most assuredly coming. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

justflyin
07-21-2006, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
BTW, why are we called huns? No one ever explained this to me.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hun)

MLudner
07-21-2006, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Welcome.

Tip for shooting down huns: practice

BTW, why are we called huns? No one ever explained this to me.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because you are.

But, it's better than being French http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Really, it's just old, World War V /I era Limey propoganda. I think our friend above didn't realize there would be anyone here with:
"Schon nach einem Tag f√ľhlt er, dass Italien ihn verwandelt, ja, dass er ein anderer Mensch zu werden beginnt. Er ist pl√¬∂tzlich kein DDR- B√ľrger mehr, kein Mitteldeutscher, kein Ostdeutscher, kein Zoni, kein Sachse. Er ist, was er nie gewesen ist, ein Tedesco, ein Deutscher, ganz einfach."
in his sig. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TheBandit_76
07-21-2006, 11:40 AM
Well, I've been stealin' the ladies hearts with only one smile since '76, so it seemed appropriate. Thanks for the warm welcome and I look forward to joining you folks in the hall of aces.

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 11:45 AM
Sorry Justflyin, I'm in Beijing. I cannot open Wikipedia from here,...it's blocked.

Mludner, that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

joeap
07-21-2006, 11:50 AM
Let's see if this works

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Huns were a confederation of Eurasian tribes, most likely of diverse origin with a Turkic-speaking aristocracy, who appeared in Europe in the 4th century, the most famous being Attila the Hun. It has also become a more general term for any number of Central Asian equestrian nomads or semi-nomads. Most of these peoples are recorded by neighboring peoples to the south, east, and west as having occupied Central Asia roughly from the 4th century to the 6th century (with some surviving in the Caucasus until the early 8th century).
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Origins and research
* 2 History
o 2.1 3rd-5th centuries
o 2.2 European Huns
* 3 Successor nations
* 4 Historiography
* 5 See also
* 6 Notes
* 7 Further reading

[edit]

Origins and research

Ever since Joseph de Guignes in the 18th century identified the Huns with the Xiongnu or (H)siung-nu, the research and debate about the Asian ancestral origins of the Huns has continued.[1]

Recent research has suggested that many of the great confederations of steppe warriors were not entirely of the same race, but rather tended to be ethnic mixtures, for example Turkic, Mongolian, Finno-Ugric, Caucasian, and Tungus clans.[1] Also, many clans may have claimed to be Huns simply based on the prestige and fame of the name, or it was attributed to them by outsiders describing their common characteristics, believed place of origin, or reputation. Thus it is probably fruitless to speculate on a single ethnic origin and geographic home of the Huns.

The recent genetic research is in contrast to older theories, which put forward more definitive answers about the Huns' origins ‚‚ā¨"Ě based on linguistics, Chinese records, archaeology, and other indirect evidence. These theories contain various elements: that the name "Hun" first described a nomadic ruling group of warriors whose ethnic origins were in Central Asia, and was most likely in present day Mongolia; that they were possibly related to, or included in, the Xiongnu (the theory first suggested by Joseph de Guignes in the 18th century); that the Xiongnu were defeated by the Chinese Han Empire; and that this is why they left Mongolia and moved westward, eventually invading Europe 200 years later. Indirect evidence includes the transmission of the composite bow from Asia to the European countries of Hungary, Russia and others; and that Europe, at some point, saw an influx of Asian genes. This traditional narrative, of a westward movement of people triggered by a Chinese war, is deeply ingrained in western (and eastern) historiography ‚‚ā¨"Ě but the evidence is often indirect or ambiguous (the Huns left practically no written records). There is no straight record for 150 years of what happened between the time they left China and arrived in Europe, since the last mention of the northern Xiongnu was their defeat by the Chinese in 151 at the lake of Barkol, after which they fled to the western steppe at K‚‚ā¨ôang-ch√ľ (centered on Turkestan in Kazakhstan). Also, from what we know in the later Chinese records between the 3rd and 4th century, a small tribe called Yueban (which is described as the remnants of northern Xiongnu in texts) were distributed in the steppe of Kazakhstan. It is further challenged by the recent genetic research showing little support for a distinct Hun people (even further sparking contention, see "Modern Huns" below).

One of the debates about the origins of the Huns is centered on Kama, legendary ancestor-King of the Huns. Research is still ongoing to learn if there ever was a ruler among the Xiongnu with that name, and because none to date has been found, some have suggested that the Huns were entirely distinct from the Xiongnu. However, the Huns and/or Xiongnu were both said to have been largely military tribes with very few written records, so the research remains tentative. The story of Kama is probably more mythology than history.

To avoid confusion, this article will not treat on the Aparni "White Huns" (Akhun only in modern Turkish) of Procopius, since while he calls them "Huns", others feel it clear that they were of a different cultural and physical stock.
[edit]

History
The Hunnish empire stretched from the steppes of Central Asia into modern Germany, and from the Danube river to the Baltic Sea
Enlarge
The Hunnish empire stretched from the steppes of Central Asia into modern Germany, and from the Danube river to the Baltic Sea
[edit]

3rd-5th centuries

Dionysius Periegetes talks of people who may be Huns living next to the Caspian Sea in second century AD. Ptolemy lists the "Chuni" as among the "Sarmatian" tribes in the second century, although it is not known for certain if these people were the Huns. The fifth century Armenian historian Moses of Khorene, in his "History of Armenia," introduces the Hunni near the Sarmatians and goes on to describe how they captured the city of Balk ("Kush" in Armenian) sometime between 194 and 214, which explains why the Greeks call that city Hunuk.

Following the defeat of the Hsiung-nu by the Han, there was a century without significant Hsiung-nu references, followed by attempts by the Liu family of southern Hsiung-nu Tiefu to establish a state in western China (see Han Zhao). Chionites (OIONO/Xiyon) appear on the scene in Transoxiana as the Kidarites begin to press on the Kushans in 320 and the Jie ethnicity Hou/Later Zhao kingdom competes against the Liu family. Back west, the Romans invite the Huns east of the Ukraine to settle Pannonia in 361, and in 372, under the leadership of Balimir their king, the Huns push toward the west and defeat the Alans. Back east again, in the early 5th century Tiefu Xia is the last southern Hsiung-nu dynasty in Western China and the Alchon and Huna appear in what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan. At this point deciphering Hunnish histories for the multi-linguist becomes easier with relatively well-documented events in Byzantine, Armenian, Iranian, Indian, and Chinese sources.
[edit]

European Huns

Huns made an appearance in Europe in the Fourth Century AD, appearing first north of the Black Sea area possibly from Central Asia, forcing a large number of Goths to seek refuge in the Roman Empire; then later the Huns appear west of the Carpathians in Pannonia, probably sometime between 400 and 410, which was probably the trigger for the massive migration of Germanic tribes westward across the Rhine in December 406.

The establishment of the 5th century Hun Empire marks one of the first well-documented appearances of the culture of horseback migration in history. Under the leadership of Attila the Hun, these tribal people achieved military and diplomatic superiority over their rivals (most of them highly cultured) through weapons like the Hun bow and a system of pay-offs, financed by the plundering of wealthy Roman cities to the south, to retain the loyalties of a diverse number of tribes.

Attila's Huns incorporated groups of unrelated tributary peoples. In the European case Alans, Gepids, Scirii, Rugians, Sarmatians, Slavs and Gothic tribes all united under the Hun family military elite. Some of Attila's Huns eventually settled in Pannonia after his death, but the Hun Empire would not survive Attila's passing. After his sons were defeated by Ardaric's coalition at the unidentified river Nedao in 454, the Hunnish empire ceased to exist.

The memory of the Hunnish invasion was transmitted orally among the Germanic peoples and is an important component in the Old Norse V√¬∂lsunga saga and Hervarar saga, and the Old German Nibelungenlied, all portraying events in the Migrations period, almost one millennium before their recordings. In the Hervarar saga, the Goths make first contact with the bow-wielding Huns and meet them in an epic battle on the plains of the Danube. In the V√¬∂lsunga saga and the Nibelungenlied, King Attila (Atli in Norse and Etzel in German) defeats the Frankish king Sigebert I (Sigur√?r or Siegfried) and the Burgundian King Guntram I (Gunnar or Gunther), but is subsequently assassinated by Queen Fredegund (Gudrun or Kriemhild), the sister of the latter and wife of the former.
[edit]

Successor nations

Many nations have tried to assert themselves as ethnic or cultural successors to the Huns. The Bulgarian khans, for instance, believed to have been descended from Attila. Indeed, the language of Volga Bulghars, currently known as the Chuvash language, is the most divergent of all the Turkic languages, which testifies to its separate existence for centuries before the dissolution of the proto-Turkic unity happened. "Formerly, scholars considered Chuvash not properly a Turkic language at all but, rather, the only surviving representative of a separate subdivision of the Altaic languages probably spoken by the Huns".[2]

The Magyars also have laid claims to the Hunnish heritage. Considering that the Huns who invaded Europe represented a loose coalition of various peoples, it is not entirely out of the question that Magyars were present among those ethnic groups as well.

In 2005, a group of about 2,500 Hungarians petitioned the government to be a recognized minority of direct descendants of Attila. It was a failed bid, but gained publicity for the group, who had been formed in the early 1990s, and appear to represent a special Hun(garian)-centric brand of mysticism. The self-proclaimed Huns are not known to possess more special knowledge about Hun culture or language than would be available from historical and modern-mystical Hungarian sources.[3]

While there is no question that the Huns left decendants all over Eastern Europe, the disintegration of the Hun empire after the death of Attila meant they never regained their lost glory. One reason was that the Huns never fully established the mechanisms of a State, such as bureaucracy and taxes, unlike the Magyars or Golden Horde, who did. Once disorganized, the Huns naturally were absorbed by more organized polities.
[edit]

Historiography

The term "Hun" has been also used to describe peoples with no historical connection to what scholars consider "Hun".

On July 27, 1901, during the Boxer Rebellion in China, Kaiser Wilhelm II gave the order to "make the name 'German' remembered in China for a thousand years, so that no Chinaman will ever again dare to even squint at a German". This speech, wherein Wilhelm invoked the memory of the 5th-century Huns, coupled with the Pickelhaube or spiked helmet worn by German forces until 1916, that was reminiscent of ancient Hun (and Hungarian) helmets, gave rise to the later derogatory English usage of the latter term for their German enemy during World War I. This usage was reinforced by Allied propaganda throughout the war, prompting hatred of the Germans by invoking the idea that they were brutal savages. The usage resurfaced during World War II.
[edit]

See also

* Hunnic language
* List of Hunnish rulers
* Battle of Ikh Bayan

[edit]

Notes

1. ^ a b Walter Pohl (1999), "Huns" in Late Antiquity by Peter Brown, p.501-502 .. further references to F.H Bauml and M. Birnbaum, eds., Atilla: The Man and His Image (1993). Peter Heather, "The Huns and the End of the Roman Empire in Western Europe," English Historical Review 90 (1995):4-41. Peter Heather, The Fall of the Roman Empire (2005). Otto Maenchen-Helfen, The World of the Huns (1973).
2. ^ (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1997)
3. ^ BBC News - "Hungary blocks Hun minority bid" - By Nick Thorpe, April 12, 2005

[edit]

Further reading

* Otto J. M√¬§nchen-Helfen (ed. Max Knight): The World of the Huns: Studies in Their History and Culture (Berkeley, University of California Press, 1973) ISBN 0520015967
* Otto J. M√¬§nchen-Helfen: Huns and Hsiung-Nu (published in Byzantion, vol. XVII, 1944-45, pp. 222-243)
* Otto J. M√¬§nchen-Helfen: The Legend of the Origin of the Huns (published in Byzantion, vol. XVII, 1944-45, pp. 244-251)
* E. A. Thompson: A History of Attila and the Huns (London, Oxford University Press, 1948)
* J. Webster: The Huns and Existentialist Thought (Loudonville, Siena College Press, 2006)
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Edit: yup that's why Fritz ya Hun...though my Brother in Law is a real Hun...(garian) American.

justflyin
07-21-2006, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Sorry Justflyin, I'm in Beijing. I cannot open Wikipedia from here,...it's blocked.

Mludner, that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yes, Chinese censorship at it's best, eh?

"The term "Hun" has been also used to describe peoples with no historical connection to what scholars consider "Hun".

On July 27, 1901, during the Boxer Rebellion in China, Kaiser Wilhelm II gave the order to "make the name 'German' remembered in China for a thousand years, so that no Chinaman will ever again dare to even squint at a German". This speech, wherein Wilhelm invoked the memory of the 5th-century Huns, coupled with the Pickelhaube or spiked helmet worn by German forces until 1916, that was reminiscent of ancient Hun (and Hungarian) helmets, gave rise to the later derogatory English usage of the latter term for their German enemy during World War I.

This usage was reinforced by Allied propaganda throughout the war, prompting hatred of the Germans by invoking the idea that they were brutal savages. The usage resurfaced during World War II."

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 12:01 PM
Cool! Thanks guyz.

I guess I owe my nickname to British intellegence. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TheBandit_76
07-21-2006, 12:21 PM
Or in other words, beware of the hun in the sun.

Jaws2002
07-21-2006, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Looking forward to trying out the P47s, P51s and P38s online. Any tips for shooting down huns in this sim? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Welcome Bandit!


Map the "bail out" button to your stick. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

You'll need it a lot for the first few months fighting the huns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Practice a little off line before you get online, to be familiar with the controls, views and flight model.

Practice shooting as much as you can, learn to trim your plane during the flight. American planes have trim tabs on all axes and except the p-38, it takes quite a bit of work to keep the ball centered.

For tactics I suggest take your time to climb before getting into the battle, stay fast at all times.

Now come online and shoot all of us down. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Kocur_
07-21-2006, 01:09 PM
As far as P-51 is concerned you can feel relatively safe right after you learn PATIENCE! In practical terms it means staying fast, i.e. NEVER slower than 220mph and never making more than 90deg of turn. P-51s top speeds are higher than almost anything at almost any alt BUT they accelerate like a sleepy turtle, so it takes enough time to get to the top speed to get killed dozen times. OTOH P-51s dive nicely so in case of trouble you just push your nose down, reduce prop pitch and dive away. Did I mention that you need to be fast at all times? If you arent when entering dive, it wont help anyway for whatever you read about "pulling away rapidly", it must have been propaganda and is not modelled in the game. Sorry.
.50s work! As long as you fire from close, like 500ft and less. Also being patient and NOT seeking to get on your target 6, but trying to put yourself in large angle lead firing solutions, will keep you from being disappointed with .50s when shotting from dead 6 at flat angle, when their effectiveness is greately reduced.
Oh, and stay fast.
In DF server you are not ready for combat without like 7.000ft alt and like 280mph minimum - if you plan to survive.

Pirschjaeger
07-21-2006, 01:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Or in other words, beware of the hun in the sun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, I like that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bearcat99
07-21-2006, 01:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Looking forward to trying out the P47s, P51s and P38s online. Any tips for shooting down huns in this sim? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome aboard!!

Lots of good tips in this thread. I recomend practice.

BSS_AIJO
07-21-2006, 01:43 PM
No one has mentioned it yet. But, spend the 2 bux on a microphone download TeamSpeak, before you even grab a copy of hyperlobby, load it up find someone to wing with. This works especially well if the person you wing with is very experinced. They can save your @55 when you get in trouble and also show you how to avoid the trouble in the first place. Online teamspeak is more valuable then a better video card.

BSS_AIJO

Taylortony
07-21-2006, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Or in other words, beware of the hun in the sun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Another reason you were called Huns was the line

Beware of the Angry German in the Sun does just not have the same ring to it.............


Anyone find it funny that during the war Hitler and his cronies demanded the ultimate Arran state, blue eyed, blonde, fit Arran people, the perfect pure German.......... they obviously had no mirrors in their accomodation..........

Most of the leadership of the time looked like weasels....

Waldo.Pepper
07-21-2006, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Map the "bail out" button to your stick. Veryhappy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Literally LOL! Truer words were never spoke!