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View Full Version : OT : Japanese aircraft-carrying submarine found off Pearl



AWL_Spinner
03-21-2005, 08:00 AM
Saw this in a thread on PPRuNe and thought you lot would probably be interested.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>HONOLULU, Hawaii (AP) -- The wreckage of a large World War II-era Japanese submarine has been found by researchers in waters off Hawaii. A research team from the University of Hawaii discovered the I-401 submarine Thursday during test dives off Oahu.

"We thought it was rocks at first, it was so huge," said Terry Kerby, pilot of the research craft that found the vessel. "But the sides of it kept going up and up and up, three and four stories tall. It's a leviathan down there, a monster."

The submarine is from the I-400 Sensuikan Toku class of subs, the largest built before the nuclear ballistic missile submarines of the 1960s. They were 400 feet long and nearly 40 feet high and could carry a crew of 144. The submarines were designed to carry three "fold-up" bombers that could be assembled for flight within minutes.

Kerby said the main hull is sitting upright and is in good shape. The I-401 numbers are clearly visible on the sides, and the anti-aircraft guns are in almost perfect condition, he said.

An I-400 and I-401 were captured at sea a week after the Japanese surrendered in 1945. Their mission -- which was never completed -- reportedly was to use the aircraft to drop rats and insects infected with bubonic plague, cholera, typhus and other diseases on U.S. cities. When the bacteriological bombs could not be prepared in time, the mission was reportedly changed to bomb the Panama Canal.

Both submarines were ordered to sail to Pearl Harbor and were deliberately sunk later, partly because Russian scientists were demanding access to them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Further reading :

I-401 Submarine (http://www.combinedfleet.com/I-401.htm)

Aichi M6A1 Seiran (http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/aichi_serian.htm)

Tooz_69GIAP
03-21-2005, 08:12 AM
Interesting, wonder if it would be possible to raise it?

Capt._Tenneal
03-21-2005, 08:23 AM
It sounds like something out of a Clive Cussler novel. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Blackdog5555
03-21-2005, 10:37 AM
Plans to use them to drop Nuclear "dirty Bombs" on LA and San Diego were in the works too. google U-234. Came very very close!

jarink
03-21-2005, 04:59 PM
OK, OK, OK. I'll say it since no one else seems to have the guts.

PF will not be "complete" until these subs and aircraft are in the game!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Hendley
03-21-2005, 09:52 PM
The bizarre suggestion that the IJN were planning to drop "typhoid infested rats and insects" on the continental US is quite obviously wartime propoganda. One wonders how the rats would survive being dropped from 1000 meters? I mean, they're already sick with typhus and all...

The Panama plan was real, however (THIS was the mission they had set out on just before war's end.) The planes that were to fly the mission were the Aichi Seiran, a handsome inline-engined floatplane.

Pic and good info is here (note lack of mention of bubonic plague):

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/aichi_serian.htm

IDF_Raam
03-22-2005, 01:28 AM
3 weeks ago i saw a program about those subs in the Discovery Channel.
The crew was able to perpare and launch the 3 aircrafts in 40 minutes.
The target was to attack ships convoys, deep in enemy territory, further away from the range of the Japanese aircraft carriers/
Think of the effect and dammage of 3 bombers appearing from nowhere and disapearing again.
When the japanese fleet surrendered, the americans sank the subs and kept it as a secret, in an attempt to prevent the Russians and other future enemies to develop such subs.
The documentry includes movies taken by the Japanese and the Americans (during the surrender process).

Aero_Shodanjo
03-22-2005, 03:04 AM
Seiran's 3 views drawing:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/m6a1.gif

Anyway, this plane's appearance somehow reminds me of Japanese George and Zeke and also Me-109 plus Stuka. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DRB_Duckman
03-22-2005, 06:19 AM
If you check your history the Japanese, use rats and insects infected with bubonic plague, cholera, typhus and other diseases in China before we got involved in the war.
They also used the Jet stream to send up balloons with incendiary and regular bombs. Hoping to hit cities, but caused forest fire in the north west of the US only 1 landed out side San Diego, killing one or two people after a young boy hit the bomb with a rock not knowing what it s was.
P.S. The US military know of them but hold the info from the public so the Japanese would not know that we knew. After analyzing the sand we where able to determined where they were launching them from. Then we bomb that area and for sum reason the fires stoped.

Krt_Bong
03-22-2005, 06:46 AM
I have seen the Discovery Channel program on the secret weapons that Japan had hidden away at wars end and this Aircraft slightly resembles a Stuka with floats. The program also featured a canard design called the Shinden which had both prop and jet powered models. I remember a game called "Aces over the Pacific" which featured this a/c and it was always hard to determine which direction it was going in because of its unusual configuration. Many aircraft the Japanese had could've been taken from designs from other countries but the ones that were that were theirs alone were truly unique and elegant. Makes you wonder what could have happened if the US had not developed the A-Bomb and the war had continued long enough for them to use these aircraft.

Hendley
03-22-2005, 06:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DRB_Duckman:
If you check your history the Japanese, use rats and insects infected with bubonic plague, cholera, typhus and other diseases in China before we got involved in the war. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That the Japanese researched the use of biological weapons in China and elsewhere is not particularly newsworthy--so did Germany, the USA and Britain.

This has nothing to do with the submarine missions in question however. The assertion that 3 or 6 or whatever floatplanes were going drop sick rats on LA is not true and, upon reflection, clearly absurd. The AP writer obviously heard some rumor still doing the rounds from the war era and, like all reporters, couldn't resist putting a bit of "color" into the story.

BTW, just noticed in my previous post I linked to the same page that Spinner did in the original post. Sorry Spinner... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Edit: Oh yeah, a late aside: I just picked up the Tamiya 1/72 Seiran and it's a good-looking kit. Recommend it to modellers interested in some of the more funky Japanese planes...

Waldo.Pepper
03-22-2005, 05:03 PM
With respect to all here are a couple well meaning friendly comments;

Dear DRB_Duckman

Check your history too.
"San Diego, killing one or two people after a young boy hit the bomb with a rock not knowing what it s was."

It was in Oregon and a Minister and some kids. There is a comemorative monument at the site.

Also more than ONE hit the North American continent. HUNDREDS made it here.
See the following links.

http://web.umr.edu/~rogersda/forensic_geology/Japenese%20vengenance%20bombs%20new.htm
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=932

No one hit it with a rock.

Dear Hendley

"That the Japanese researched the use of biological weapons in China and elsewhere is not particularly newsworthy--so did Germany, the USA and Britain."

I would hardly have typified the killing of THOUSANDS of Chinese with disease (which the Japanese DID!) mere researsh.

I quote from the following link.

"Between 700,000 and 2 million chemical bombs, most of them loaded with mustard gas and many of them corroded and leaking, are stored in warehouses and old munition dumps in Manchuria, where chemical agents were manufactured and deadly bacteria were cultured on a large scale in the 1930s and 1940s."

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/ww2germ.htm

Furthermore;

"There could be over 700,000 or even 1 million" lives lost to Japan's biowarfare programme, Daniel Barenblatt, author of, "A Plague Upon Humanity", said in a recent interview.

from - http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2004/0325/fe21-2.html

If after reading that quote and the rest of the links you still think that this chemical warfare effort is comparable to what the Germans USA and Britain did then I am wasting my time typing this.

Certainly the Japanese had the capability to do this is China. What was it that stopped them from making the attempt in North America?

SeperateCheck
03-22-2005, 06:00 PM
this subject reminds me of a newspaper clipping my mom sent me while I was living in OR.

I don't think I have it anymore, but I remember it was the story of a Japanese pilot who died (in 1996). He was the one and only pilot to attack the continental U.S. during WWII. He flew one of those bombers that folded up into a submarine, and dropped incendiary bombs on the rain forests in Oregon.

No one was injured, and the event went unknown to Americans until after the war was over.

But. They dropped bombs on America. I don't think the Japanese realized the forests in Oregon are rain forests. Not too unlike tropical rain forests.

ah well, live and learn.

Zyzbot
03-22-2005, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeperateCheck:
this subject reminds me of a newspaper clipping my mom sent me while I was living in OR.

I don't think I have it anymore, but I remember it was the story of a Japanese pilot who died (in 1996). He was the one and only pilot to attack the continental U.S. during WWII. He flew one of those bombers that folded up into a submarine, and dropped incendiary bombs on the rain forests in Oregon.

No one was injured, and the event went unknown to Americans until after the war was over.

But. They dropped bombs on America. I don't think the Japanese realized the forests in Oregon are rain forests. Not too unlike tropical rain forests.

ah well, live and learn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have a book somewhere with that guy's short story in it. I'll try to find it.

Hendley
03-22-2005, 07:22 PM
Waldo, thanks for the Google search efforts, but the topic at hand are the plane-carrying subs--which had nothing much to do with how wicked and dastardly Japan may or may not have been.

Anyway, I shall desist from further comment before this turns into the Internet's 546,256th* country-X-was-an-evil-monster-was not!-was too! thread. Back to those lovely Seirans... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

* Pointless Flamewars Statistical Survey, 2005

Blackdog5555
03-22-2005, 07:37 PM
Did someone say, "Not Newswothy"?..LOL...I just wonder what you would consider newsworthy. You would be a very tough editor to please for any newspaper...lol. just kidding..not. cheers BD.

Waldo.Pepper
03-22-2005, 07:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hendley:
Waldo, thanks for the Google search efforts, but the topic at hand are the plane-carrying subs--which had nothing much to do with how wicked and dastardly Japan may or may not have been.

Anyway, I shall desist from further comment before this turns into the Internet's 546,256th* country-X-was-an-evil-monster-was not!-was too! thread. Back to those lovely Seirans... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

* Pointless Flamewars Statistical Survey, 2005 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love you too man!

I wouldn't have let it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ronison
03-22-2005, 09:02 PM
Quote:
__________________________________________________ ______________________
I don't think I have it anymore, but I remember it was the story of a Japanese pilot who died (in 1996). He was the one and only pilot to attack the continental U.S. during WWII. He flew one of those bombers that folded up into a submarine, and dropped incendiary bombs on the rain forests in Oregon.

No one was injured, and the event went unknown to Americans until after the war was over.

But. They dropped bombs on America. I don't think the Japanese realized the forests in Oregon are rain forests. Not too unlike tropical rain forests.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Very true. My brother in law is a corpret pilot and back in the early 90's he flew this pilot, for a 40th anaversy flight, from Crecent City California over the sight where this took place. My brothe in law even let the pilot fly the plane, he has his instructor license, and the pilot "Tryed to fly the exact corse" he flew on the mission.

SeperateCheck
03-23-2005, 05:47 PM
ronison,

that's so freaking cool!!!

I like stories like that!

I'm reading Guadalcanal right now, and it tell a little about these pilots who fell into the ocean near one another. The American convinced his rescue crew not to murder the enemy pilot, and tried to pull him out of the water. The guy in the water put a gun to the American's head and pulled the trigger!

When the wet ammo didn't fire, he tried to shoot himself in the head. Then got captured. The two pilots met after the war.

It's pretty amazing how much time heals all wounds.

Giganoni
03-23-2005, 06:21 PM
I believe Japan had a lot of weapons, such as those plane carrying subs that could have helped them immensely if they either had enough of them, or used them properly. I feel the Emily is one, had they made more of those they would have proven very valuable as transports and anti sub aircraft which they had some success at.

If you people are interested in very little known aspects of the PTO, or perhaps just interested in the Japanese point of view I would recommend Japan At War: An Oral History by Haruko Taya Cook & Theodore F. Cook. All interviews of Japanese that lived during the war from all walks of life. Soldiers in China, Nanking, fighter pilots, soldiers in New Guinea, artists, dancers, reporters put in jail for being "against the war", and many others.

Some interesting ones I liked were the interviews of Kaiten pilots (one way torpedos with a human pilot), a woman who as a child helped make the balloons that were sent to firebomb America. Finally there was an interview of a man who was in the six-grade then and discussed how he used to get strafed by US planes, something I didn't know.