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MB_Avro_UK
08-25-2008, 04:29 PM
Hi all,

The Battle of Britain occured between July and October 1940.

I always thought that Fiske was the only American fighter pilot to serve with the RAF in this period;and he was killed.

But there were other American fighter pilots who fought during this period.

The seven 'official' Americans in Fighter Command in the summer of 1940 were:

Pilot Officer Arthur Donahue, 64 Squadron.
Pilot Officer J.K. Haviland, 153 Squadron. Pilot Officer W.M.L. Fiske, 601 Squadron.
Pilot Officer Vernon Keough, 609 Squadron. Pilot Officer Phil Leckrone, 616 Squadron. Pilot Officer Andrew Mamedoff, 609 Squadron Pilot Officer Eugene Tobin, 609 Squadron

Their names can be found here on the Battle of Britain Roll of Honour:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/roll.html


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

MB_Avro_UK
08-25-2008, 04:29 PM
Hi all,

The Battle of Britain occured between July and October 1940.

I always thought that Fiske was the only American fighter pilot to serve with the RAF in this period;and he was killed.

But there were other American fighter pilots who fought during this period.

The seven 'official' Americans in Fighter Command in the summer of 1940 were:

Pilot Officer Arthur Donahue, 64 Squadron.
Pilot Officer J.K. Haviland, 153 Squadron. Pilot Officer W.M.L. Fiske, 601 Squadron.
Pilot Officer Vernon Keough, 609 Squadron. Pilot Officer Phil Leckrone, 616 Squadron. Pilot Officer Andrew Mamedoff, 609 Squadron Pilot Officer Eugene Tobin, 609 Squadron

Their names can be found here on the Battle of Britain Roll of Honour:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/roll.html


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

SeaFireLIV
08-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Isn`t Fiske notable because he`s the only American that got a kill in the BOB?

crucislancer
08-25-2008, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

The Battle of Britain occured between July and October 1940.

I always thought that Fiske was the only American fighter pilot to serve with the RAF in this period;and he was killed.

But there were other American fighter pilots who fought during this period.

The seven 'official' Americans in Fighter Command in the summer of 1940 were:

Pilot Officer Arthur Donahue, 64 Squadron.
Pilot Officer J.K. Haviland, 153 Squadron. Pilot Officer W.M.L. Fiske, 601 Squadron.
Pilot Officer Vernon Keough, 609 Squadron. Pilot Officer Phil Leckrone, 616 Squadron. Pilot Officer Andrew Mamedoff, 609 Squadron Pilot Officer Eugene Tobin, 609 Squadron

Their names can be found here on the Battle of Britain Roll of Honour:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/roll.html


Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could have sworn there were as many as 11 Americans in the Battle, but perhaps some where there as RCAF pilots?

WTE_Galway
08-25-2008, 05:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

The Battle of Britain occured between July and October 1940.

I always thought that Fiske was the only American fighter pilot to serve with the RAF in this period;and he was killed.

But there were other American fighter pilots who fought during this period.

The seven 'official' Americans in Fighter Command in the summer of 1940 were:

Pilot Officer Arthur Donahue, 64 Squadron.
Pilot Officer J.K. Haviland, 153 Squadron. Pilot Officer W.M.L. Fiske, 601 Squadron.
Pilot Officer Vernon Keough, 609 Squadron. Pilot Officer Phil Leckrone, 616 Squadron. Pilot Officer Andrew Mamedoff, 609 Squadron Pilot Officer Eugene Tobin, 609 Squadron

Their names can be found here on the Battle of Britain Roll of Honour:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/roll.html


Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could have sworn there were as many as 11 Americans in the Battle, but perhaps some where there as RCAF pilots? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


My list gave ....

Pilot Officer William M.L. Fiske of No. 601 Squadron. KIA

Flying Officer Carl R. Davis. No. 601 Squadron

Pilot Officers Vernon C. Keough,
Andrew Mamedoff
and Eugene Q. Tobin
all No. 609 Squadron.

Pilot Officer Phillip H. Leckrone of No. 616 squadron.

Pilot Officers Arthur G. Donahue,
John K. Haviland,
Hugh W. Reilley (64 and 66 Sqds)

De Peyster Brown No. 1 Squadron of the Royal Canadian Air Force


I make that 10. But some names on the list originally posted are not on this one.

M_Gunz
08-25-2008, 09:05 PM
There's a show out where one pilot recounts leaving the US to Canada to go to England just
to fly for the RAF. But I don't remember just when except it was before Dec 7, 1941.
It had stated that many went that route and the practice was illegal, you could come home
and get put in prison as we have people that do those A-Retentive sorts of things.

There was even a kid who lied about his age to join the Navy, fought at Midway and was
decorated and then sent to prison for lying about his age by just that sort of.. people.
He may not have served his time but he was treated inhumanely while incarcerated.

We had a name for those sorts that were in the Army, btw, they're called REMF's and they
will take combat troops just back from the field and have them clean already clean floors
and do other dirt work so the REMF can prove he is leadership material without actually
going into combat. I wonder how people like that survive a war? They do, I've seen em.

Buzzsaw-
08-25-2008, 10:31 PM
Salute

Compared to other nationalities, very few Americans served with RAF Fighter Command in the BoB.

Here are some figures for the foreign nationalities flying Fighters with the RAF according to Wikipedia:

Poland 139
New Zealand 98
Canada 86 (Official Canadian government figures say over 100, many longserving RAF members as well as those in No. 1 Squadron RCAF. For example, Douglas Bader's No. 242 Squadron was predominantly Canadian, and fought in the BoF before the BoB. As well some 100 flew with Bomber Command.)
Czechoslovakia 84
Belgium 29
Australia 21
South Africa 20
France 13
Ireland 10
United States 7
Jamaica 1
Palestine Mandate 1
Southern Rhodesia 1
Unknown 8

Highest scoring Ace for the RAF in the BoB was Sergeant Josef František, originally Czech Air Force, then Polish, then French, and finally RAF. He scored 11 victories flying with other services, then 17 with the RAF. Killed in flying accident in October 1940, apparently while stunting over his girlfriend's house in Surrey England. He was a "Buzz" Beurling type, a lone wolf who was ferocious in his campaign against the Germans, but impossible to discipline. Finally his Superiors assigned him to No. 303 Polish Squadron as a "Guest" flyer, who then gave him a plane, and carte blanche to fly as much as he wanted.

May his memory shine bright.

http://www.osobnosti.net/foto/j/josef-frantisek/1.jpg

Frequent_Flyer
08-25-2008, 11:33 PM
The highest scoring squad. were the Pole's in BOB.

WTE_Galway
08-25-2008, 11:46 PM
... and highest casualty rate, for either side, (something close to 90% KIA) was among the Australians

Buzzsaw-
08-25-2008, 11:54 PM
Salute

Without all these disparate nationalities fighting in the RAF alongside Britons, the BoB would have been lost. And most of them knew what they were getting into, very many had seen their countries overrun, and had no home anymore, many did not survive the war.

One of our Squad members, RAF74_Bimmer, recently visited England and I am happy to say that in that country, the sacrifices of those few who were from elsewhere is not forgotten:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/aegaspari/IMG_1294.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/aegaspari/IMG_1295.jpg

Xiolablu3
08-26-2008, 02:19 AM
Although the Poles had the highest kill rate, they also had the highest loss rate too.

Not sure about the Czechs.

This can be explained by the fact that in general they were more bloodthirsty and 'reckless' (without meaning that in an insulting way) than the RAF/RCAF pilots who kept very strict discipline. Even to the extent of shooting down Germans in parachutes. They would also disobey orders in order to get more kills. This is demonstrated in the Battle Of Britian Movie. Also there is a true account of two Poles taking off into fog to shoot down a He111 bomber on the Spitfire Ace program, they were expressly forbade to take off by the CO as it was very dangerous, (a real pea-souper) but they did anyway - and shot the plane down.

The Poles and Czechs 'hated' the Germans and as has been said before, where the RAF/RCAF were treating it as a chivelrous battle to shoot down airplanes, the Poles and Czechs were there to kill Germans and whether he was in a plane or not didnt matter.

There would be no case of an RAF Pole escorting a damaged 109 back over the channel as was done in some cases by RAF and RCAF pilots - he would shoot it down. They had seen Warsaw burn, and might never see their families again, they were fighting the Eastern War, not the Western war.

No Mercy - kill the German and make him suffer for his crimes against our country was the general thought.

Quote from a Polish BOB pilot 'We were very united, we just hated the enemy and all we wanted to do was to get at him, shoot him and kill him'

Quote from RAF pilot 'There was no bad feelings, and I dont think any of the other chaps had any bad feelings towards them. The chap over there with black crosses on was only doing the same job as us, for another firm'


There was a classic recollection of a Pilot who interviewed a shot down German Pilot who was particularly shaken by the ferocity of his attacker, who shot at him in a parachute on his way down. He asked the RAF pilot why would an English pilot do such a thing? He was expecting a Chivelrous fight between honourable enemies.

As the RAF pilot told him that it was a Pole who shot him down, the German Pilot suddenly realised what and why it had happened.

Schwarz.13
08-26-2008, 03:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Although the Poles had the highest kill rate, they also had the highest loss rate too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. This is one of the many myths debunked by Stephen Bungay in his excellent book:

<span class="ev_code_yellow">"The record of 303 in partiular was indeed unsurpassed. Although only entering the battle on 31 August, they were, with 126 accredited kills, the highest claiming squadron in Fighter Command. Such were the suspicions raised by their claims that their station commander at Northolt, Group Captain Vincent, flew with them on one occasion and reported back, rather shaken, that 'what they claimed, they did indeed get!' Moreover, despite their reputation as reckless daredevils, 303's claims-to-loss ratio, at 14:1, was the fourth best in Fighter Command."</span>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:This can be explained by the fact that in general they were more bloodthirsty and 'reckless' (without meaning that in an insulting way) than the RAF/RCAF pilots who kept very strict discipline. Even to the extent of shooting down Germans in parachutes. They would also disobey orders in order to get more kills. This is demonstrated in the Battle Of Britian Movie. Also there is a true account of two Poles taking off into fog to shoot down a He111 bomber on the Spitfire Ace program, they were expressly forbade to take off by the CO as it was very dangerous, (a real pea-souper) but they did anyway - and shot the plane down.

The Poles and Czechs 'hated' the Germans and as has been said before, where the RAF/RCAF were treating it as a chivelrous battle to shoot down airplanes, the Poles and Czechs were there to kill Germans and whether he was in a plane or not didnt matter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think blind hatred alone would be enough to assure a fighter squadron such a high kill rate (although it was certainly a contributing factor):

<span class="ev_code_yellow">"There were good reasons for the Poles' outstanding performance. They were all very-well trained, battle-experienced pilots. Many had been flight or squadron commanders in Poland, and they often ignored their less combat-experienced British officers. They always got in very close, so it seems likely that their claims were indeed more genuine than average."</span>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Not sure about the Czechs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thought i'd post this very interesting anecdote about the Czechs, seeing as it was on the opposite page:

<span class="ev_code_yellow">"As in the case of the Poles, they were very good pilots, but their British commanders were a little taken aback by some of their ways. Flight Lieutenant Gordon Sinclair was made a flight commander in 310:

The Czechs were totally disciplined. They did what was expected of them, though not necessarily what they were supposed to do. The young ones were very frightened of their commanding officer. One day, Early on, one of these lads crashed a Hurricane in landing. The undercarriage buckled up. They quickly had a court martial among themselves and they were going to shoot him behind the hangar. Douglas Blackwood and I discovered what was going on and said: 'You can't do that sort of thing, we run the show, not you."</span>

Poor sod!

@Avro - with regards to your original post, Bungay has this to say:

<span class="ev_code_yellow">"The exact number of Americans in Fighter Command is uncertain because some pretended to be Canadian in order to get round their government's enforcement of its neutrality. There were probably about eleven. Three of them got past FBI agents at the Canadian border and tried to join the Finnish Air Force to fight the Russians, but by the time they got to Europe that war was over so they ended up in 609 squadron and fought Germans instead. They were volunteers of the purest sort, for it was not yet their war, They fought for fun or for freedom. It was hard to tell."</span>

S!

Xiolablu3
08-26-2008, 04:01 AM
303 Squadron CLAIMED the most enemy aircraft shot down.

Once kills had been verified it was the 4th highest scoring, and the highest scoring Hurricane squadron (the 3 above flew SPitfires)


'Although the number of Battle of Britain claims was overestimated (as in case of virtually all fighter units), 303 Squadron was one of top fighter units in the battle and the best Hurricane-equipped one. According to historian John Alcorn, 44 victories are positively verified, what makes 303 Squadron the fourth best fighter squadron of the battle, after Squadrons Nos. 603, 609, 41, which all flew Spitfires. Considering that these victories were scored in only 17 days of combat, it was the most efficient unit, with high kill-to-loss ratio of 2.8:1.'


Apologies if I was wrong about the losses suffered, I did read it somewhere.

Awesome job Polskis! Proud to be your allies.

Bremspropeller
08-26-2008, 05:29 AM
Ben Affleck - 6

tragentsmith
08-26-2008, 06:09 AM
Problem for the german : As soon as Ben Affleck shows, they forget all of their tactics.

tragentsmith
08-26-2008, 07:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
There's a show out where one pilot recounts leaving the US to Canada to go to England just
to fly for the RAF. But I don't remember just when except it was before Dec 7, 1941.
It had stated that many went that route and the practice was illegal, you could come home
and get put in prison as we have people that do those A-Retentive sorts of things.

There was even a kid who lied about his age to join the Navy, fought at Midway and was
decorated and then sent to prison for lying about his age by just that sort of.. people.
He may not have served his time but he was treated inhumanely while incarcerated.

We had a name for those sorts that were in the Army, btw, they're called REMF's and they
will take combat troops just back from the field and have them clean already clean floors
and do other dirt work so the REMF can prove he is leadership material without actually
going into combat. I wonder how people like that survive a war? They do, I've seen em. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you read the book called (in french : le soldat oublié) "the forgotten soldier" by Guy Sajer ? He was a young french alsacian that got recruited by the Wehrmacht in late 1942 to go fight on the eastern front (he was 16 at that time if I remember correcty). He's the author of the book and relates all his war experiences.

At a moment, during the collapse of the German army, he tells about the routing of the Wehrmacht while trying to cross the Dniepr river.
After seeing number and numbers of comrades dying, he finally manage to catch a ship that allows him to cross the river. He thinks that he will be sent back to his unit, that they will be refited and then properly sent back to the front. Instead of that, the survivors hav to go to a "debriefing" with Feldgendarmen that is purely hell.

In front of him in the queue, he see a leutnant being sent to a disciplinary battalion because during the routing he lost the pocket of his binoculars. He himself is beeing threaten because he has 4 bullets for his rifle left (out of 120) and is called a "coward" running from the enemy without shooting....

Feldgendarm where really the most hated people on the eastern front. Both by russians and germans.

M_Gunz
08-26-2008, 09:44 AM
Never heard of that one before, thanks for the head's up!
Are those what the Russians call Starshoy, the political officer or are they another breed?

I guess that Feldgendarmen might translate to military police or worse?

Just another bunch of chickenhawks.

Schwarz.13
08-26-2008, 11:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does REMF stand for, just out of interest Gunz?

berg417448
08-26-2008, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schwarz.13:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does REMF stand for, just out of interest Gunz? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=REMF

Schwarz.13
08-26-2008, 11:31 AM
aah, the Urban Dictionary - how foolish of me to not look there first http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Hoenire
08-26-2008, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Isn`t Fiske notable because he`s the only American that got a kill in the BOB? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think so. He went out up on a scramble, got shot up very badly and suffered from some minor burns. He succumbed overnight in a hospital bed and they think it was because of shock. Half of the problem about the chap is that there are so many differing accounts about him.

Saburo_0
08-26-2008, 12:47 PM
Pilot Officer Phillip H. Leckrone of No. 616 squadron.

Phillip Leckrone was from my home town, Salem Illinois. I went to school with his brother's Granddaughter. The story I heard was he left for Canada when he was only 17, his Father signed a document to say he was older. He joined the RCAF, I wasn't sure if he made it in time to take part in the BoB but knew he was one of the first Americans in the RAF.
He was killed while training with the Eagle Squadrons (71 IIRC) when the oxygen on his Hurricane failed.
His picture still hangs at our local airport, Leckrone Field, where I took my first flights.
Nice to see him remembered here.

M_Gunz
08-26-2008, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schwarz.13:
aah, the Urban Dictionary - how foolish of me to not look there first http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I learned the term while in radar school from the prior service guys there.
We had combat vets who didn't think much of spending hours to shine floors, shoes, what have you
and related about the kinds of people who would force that on guys just back from real soldiering.

Later on though it was an 82 AB vet who taught me how to shine shoes really well and it did go
a long way to not getting .. screwed.. with.

REMF's have neither soul nor balls.

WTE_Galway
08-26-2008, 04:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoenire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Isn`t Fiske notable because he`s the only American that got a kill in the BOB? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think so. He went out up on a scramble, got shot up very badly and suffered from some minor burns. He succumbed overnight in a hospital bed and they think it was because of shock. Half of the problem about the chap is that there are so many differing accounts about him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fiske had the misfortune of being the very first American to die fighting in the Battle of Britain.

MB_Avro_UK
08-26-2008, 04:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saburo_0:
Pilot Officer Phillip H. Leckrone of No. 616 squadron.

Phillip Leckrone was from my home town, Salem Illinois. I went to school with his brother's Granddaughter. The story I heard was he left for Canada when he was only 17, his Father signed a document to say he was older. He joined the RCAF, I wasn't sure if he made it in time to take part in the BoB but knew he was one of the first Americans in the RAF.
He was killed while training with the Eagle Squadrons (71 IIRC) when the oxygen on his Hurricane failed.
His picture still hangs at our local airport, Leckrone Field, where I took my first flights.
Nice to see him remembered here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for your post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Makes all this real if you understand.

MB_Avro.

Saburo_0
08-27-2008, 01:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saburo_0:
Pilot Officer Phillip H. Leckrone of No. 616 squadron.

Phillip Leckrone was from my home town, Salem Illinois. I went to school with his brother's Granddaughter. The story I heard was he left for Canada when he was only 17, his Father signed a document to say he was older. He joined the RCAF, I wasn't sure if he made it in time to take part in the BoB but knew he was one of the first Americans in the RAF.
He was killed while training with the Eagle Squadrons (71 IIRC) when the oxygen on his Hurricane failed.
His picture still hangs at our local airport, Leckrone Field, where I took my first flights.
Nice to see him remembered here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for your post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Makes all this real if you understand.

MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do ;-)

Bloody shame war. Too much lost potential, still hope I'd have had the courage to do the same.
An' not being an ace, doesn't mean he didn't make a difference. Mostly the unknowns did it I figure.

WTE_Galway
08-27-2008, 01:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saburo_0:

Bloody shame war. Too much lost potential, still hope I'd have had the courage to do the same.
An' not being an ace, doesn't mean he didn't make a difference. Mostly the unknowns did it I figure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed.

This is a full list of BoB pilots ...

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/roll.html

Almost all of these men were young, often university educated, often married with families and almost all at this early stage of the war were already trained pilots.

It is rather sobering to scroll quickly through and note how many are simply noted as "killed" (the * notes killed during BoB itself). Only one American on the list seems to have survived the war.

M_Gunz
08-27-2008, 06:27 AM
There is a longer list I am sure of those killed on the ground, mostly not pilots.
How many million did that war take all tolled?

Buzzsaw-
08-27-2008, 11:22 AM
Salute

Re. the Americans in the BoB:

Although not many Americans participated in the battle, it was reported so thoroughly in the US by people such as Edward Murrow of CBS that it inspired very many to come across the border into Canada to join the RCAF, or to go directly to Britain. The result was the formation of the RAF `Eagle` Squadrons, (No. 71, 121, and 133) ie. Squadrons composed almost entirely of American flyers. The first was formed in September of `40, but wasn`t operational till Jan. `41. Later, when the US joined the war, these Squadrons were reformed into the 4th Fighter Group.

Edward Murrow broadcast from London during Blitz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KLQxtDOkZA&feature=related

Murrow pioneered the technique of reporting in such a way as to put the viewer right in the enviroment. Later of course, he went on to be the man who first confronted Joseph McCarthy and the Witchhunt of the `50`s.

M_Gunz
08-27-2008, 02:27 PM
All he did was to expose McCarthy's lies that got bigger and bigger.
Back then it wasn't considered being a liberal, it was just telling the truth.

MB_Avro_UK
08-27-2008, 03:24 PM
Hi all,

There is international confusion on this forum as to what the 'Battle of Britain' means.

The 'Battle of Britain' relates to a period from July 1940 until October 1940.

It was a period when the German Luftwaffe tried to impose aerial dominance over the RAF as a prelude to invasion.

I hope this helps http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

lockhands
03-31-2012, 06:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

The Battle of Britain occured between July and October 1940.

I always thought that Fiske was the only American fighter pilot to serve with the RAF in this period;and he was killed.

But there were other American fighter pilots who fought during this period.

The seven 'official' Americans in Fighter Command in the summer of 1940 were:

Pilot Officer Arthur Donahue, 64 Squadron.
Pilot Officer J.K. Haviland, 153 Squadron. Pilot Officer W.M.L. Fiske, 601 Squadron.
Pilot Officer Vernon Keough, 609 Squadron. Pilot Officer Phil Leckrone, 616 Squadron. Pilot Officer Andrew Mamedoff, 609 Squadron Pilot Officer Eugene Tobin, 609 Squadron

Their names can be found here on the Battle of Britain Roll of Honour:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/roll.html


Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could have sworn there were as many as 11 Americans in the Battle, but perhaps some where there as RCAF pilots? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


My list gave ....

Pilot Officer William M.L. Fiske of No. 601 Squadron. KIA

Flying Officer Carl R. Davis. No. 601 Squadron

Pilot Officers Vernon C. Keough,
Andrew Mamedoff
and Eugene Q. Tobin
all No. 609 Squadron.

Pilot Officer Phillip H. Leckrone of No. 616 squadron.

Pilot Officers Arthur G. Donahue,
John K. Haviland,
Hugh W. Reilley (64 and 66 Sqds)

De Peyster Brown No. 1 Squadron of the Royal Canadian Air Force


I make that 10. But some names on the list originally posted are not on this one.



I am the Son of PO Hugh William Reilley who is detailed in the list of American Pilots which appear on this Forum and who fought and died in the Battle of Britain.

My father was a CANADIAN (as listed in the RAF roster). The information relating to his Nationality is given in a Memoriam which I wrote and can be seen at:- http://hughwreilley.blogspot.co.uk.

Alex Kershaw and I have corresponded regarding the details of my father in his book “The Few” and he agrees that it was published with the wrong information and that this will be changed in later editions.

With regard to Kenneth G. Wynn's book “ Men of the Battle of Britain” I have the “Supplementary Volume” published in 1992 and on page 162 the correct information is given.

I hope this will clear up the confusion surrounding my father's nationality.


C.H.A.Reilley.

AndyJWest
03-31-2012, 07:09 PM
Thanks for clarifying this. And of course, thanks to the memory of your late father. A brave and honourable man.

(the link you post seems not to work, but I fixed it here http://hughwreilley.blogspot.co.uk/)

Tully__
04-01-2012, 04:22 AM
Thanks for clarifying this. And of course, thanks to the memory of your late father. A brave and honourable man.

(the link you post seems not to work, but I fixed it here http://hughwreilley.blogspot.co.uk/)
Fixed in the original post. :)

lockhands
04-04-2012, 10:41 AM
As a matter of interest Wikipedia give the dates of the Battle of Britain as "between 10 July and 31 October 1940"

I hope this helps.

C.H.A.Reilley

MB_Avro_UK
04-04-2012, 10:01 PM
Hi all,

I started this thread four years ago. And its amazing how its found new life. Maybe thanks to Cliffs of Dover? And thanks also for your latest contributions.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.