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View Full Version : Nude women and airplanes---budding Freuds discuss



leitmotiv
09-30-2007, 04:57 PM
Why did WWII see an explosion of aero porn? The phenomenon was unseen in WWI. Discuss:

leitmotiv
09-30-2007, 04:57 PM
Why did WWII see an explosion of aero porn? The phenomenon was unseen in WWI. Discuss:

VW-IceFire
09-30-2007, 05:10 PM
Still coming out of the Victorian era in 1914-1918 probably...not the era itself but the leftovers from it. The sort of things we take as a norm these days was strictly taboo. But with all of the partying and social upheaval in the 1920s and 1930s some of these social rules were loosened and with a war on nobody was really too concerned about being prim and proper.

Plus these same people that were painting nudes on the side of their planes went on the give birth to the hippies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
09-30-2007, 05:12 PM
Probably cos WWI was during the Victorian period. a period when they even covered Piano legs! It was a serious no-no to have any visual image of naked women on anything, even war stuff. Only greek themes in art were able to get away with it in those times.

Come to think of it, it became a lot like that in the `orrible feminist `80s too. I think even today military vehicles are censored?

....

Dunno why it popped up in WWII. Perhaps a loosening of the Victorian values during the `20s and `30s and America defintely had something to do with it...

leitmotiv
09-30-2007, 05:16 PM
My theory is less intelligent---WWI airplanes looked like box kites---you didn't exactly see a similarity with women and an airplane like the SE 5. Even the svelte Albatri had clunky engines breaking the harmony. Now, take the smooth-skinned, streamlined aircraft of WWII, and any self-respecting young male immediately would think of Mary Lou's long legs back in Peoria, & etc!

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-30-2007, 05:19 PM
Ahem! Dirigibles, I say!

I believe the 'naughty postcard' trade to be be more in evidence during WWI.

leitmotiv
09-30-2007, 05:33 PM
The question about the gigantic zeppelins is an interesting one: was the zeppelin an expression of German masculine phallic-aggressive barbarism, or were the fragile, easily-blown-about zeps seditious expressions of German socialist-feminist breast-kultur?

I saw some superb examples of the naughty postcards of the WWI-era in a Trieste shop---doubtlessly a lingering effect of D'Annuzio's time there.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-30-2007, 05:49 PM
I wouldnt really call it porn as most were pretty tasteful. Any whatever can boost the morale is a good thing.

S!

polak5
09-30-2007, 06:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Why did WWII see an explosion of aero porn? The phenomenon was unseen in WWI. Discuss: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif look into 19th amendment

leitmotiv
09-30-2007, 07:00 PM
Are you kidding, HaVok? Those terrific paintings on the 20th AF B-29s were about as tasteful as Hustler. I'm not making a moral judgment by using "porn"---but the simple fact is that the paintings were intended to titillate, in spades, and that ain't academic painting, and it shore as hell wasn't Norman Rockwell! To 1940s sensibilities it was like hard-core is now. Read Paul Fussell's Wartime---it was a different era---Jane Russell's bit of bosom in 1943's The Outlaw practically drove GIs crazy overseas. Now your average American male would say "Big deal!"

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1299/9328_0023.jpg

crazyivan1970
09-30-2007, 07:07 PM
Careful with images folks.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ploughman
10-01-2007, 03:26 AM
Gargh. Who was it who flew his imaginatively decorated B-29 home only to be met on the tarmac by his mother with her jaw on the ground? Resulted in a stern letter to all commands that pretty much brought the whole thing to a close.

ViktorViktor
10-01-2007, 03:58 AM
The explosion of pin-up art was in my opinion an overwhelmingly American phenomenon. My guess is that the other Air Forces had more sexually conservative leaders than the Americans.

Though I get the impression that the Germans were more open about sex/nudity than Americans (German had official wh#rehouses for fighting men, right?). I don't know why they didn't have women painted on their aircraft like the Americans.

Actually, come to think of it Americans were the most enthusiastic about painting their planes for any reason, be it women, or animals, or just a name. Guess they had the time and a more lenient leadership.

Bremspropeller
10-01-2007, 06:17 AM
You haven't seen noseart, 'till you've seen some F-105's noseart http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Monterey13
10-01-2007, 07:24 AM
Maybe they were supposed to be used as a distraction to disrupt the enemy pilots' concentration, therefore throwing off his aim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Feathered_IV
10-01-2007, 07:46 AM
And by the way, isn't "budding" Freuds a bit of a slip too???

LEBillfish
10-01-2007, 07:49 AM
General Kenny as an example, wanted his guys feeling hungry, aggressive and with a feeling of though they were facing a vicious enemy, they were not facing a just as oppressive leadership.

Young men think of only 4 things......Sex, fighting (still trying to secure their place among other males), sex, and sex......Deny them one, and their focus will be upon it yet using the other against those who deny them in a sort of rebellion......IOW, deny them a sexual outlet of some form, and they'll apply that fighting aspect toward that which denies them.

So, let them have their outlet, and they'll apply that fighting toward the enemy.....In kind, a bit of vice allowed helps one forget the troubles at hand...and get right down to it the leadership is stating as it must..."Go do this thing with the very real possibility of dying".....So to deny them harmless things while at the same time sending them to their doom, is a sure fire recipe for rebellion.

Wars are fought and "won by" those savage enough to fight them....Not by pinky lifting croquet playing lords in ice-cream pinstripe suits....and anyone who has issue with it needs to adjust their priorities having an attitude more akin to "well let them eat cake".

Hurts no one, in fact is complimentary toward women....Only ones it truly upsets are those women feeling outshone, and the men who try and impress those women by going along with them.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ploughman
10-01-2007, 07:49 AM
Hmmm, you said slip, you negligée wearing devil you.

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 08:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Gargh. Who was it who flew his imaginatively decorated B-29 home only to be met on the tarmac by his mother with her jaw on the ground? Resulted in a stern letter to all commands that pretty much brought the whole thing to a close. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All true. Brought the heyday of lurid nose decs on the B-29s to a screeching halt to be replaced by tame, sanitized, uniform markings emphasizing hometowns. Returned during the Korean War on the B-29s.

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
General Kenny as an example, wanted his guys feeling hungry, aggressive and with a feeling of though they were facing a vicious enemy, they were not facing a just as oppressive leadership.

Young men think of only 4 things......Sex, fighting (still trying to secure their place among other males), sex, and sex......Deny them one, and their focus will be upon it yet using the other against those who deny them in a sort of rebellion......IOW, deny them a sexual outlet of some form, and they'll apply that fighting aspect toward that which denies them.

So, let them have their outlet, and they'll apply that fighting toward the enemy.....In kind, a bit of vice allowed helps one forget the troubles at hand...and get right down to it the leadership is stating as it must..."Go do this thing with the very real possibility of dying".....So to deny them harmless things while at the same time sending them to their doom, is a sure fire recipe for rebellion.

Wars are fought and "won by" those savage enough to fight them....Not by pinky lifting croquet playing lords in ice-cream pinstripe suits....and anyone who has issue with it needs to adjust their priorities having an attitude more akin to "well let them eat cake".

Hurts no one, in fact is complimentary toward women....Only ones it truly upsets are those women feeling outshone, and the men who try and impress those women by going along with them.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well put, Fishmeisterin.

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 08:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
And by the way, isn't "budding" Freuds a bit of a slip too??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Harrumph, these artistic types, harrumph, always looking for, harrumph, lurid, harrumph, as they say these days "sub texts," harrumph. Cold showers is the cure, and perhaps a therapeutic sandbagging, harrumph. In my day...

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 08:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Hmmm, you said slip, you negligée wearing devil you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn, preversion is out of control among those Brits!

Monterey13
10-01-2007, 08:30 AM
I'm missing LB's avatar already. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

buzzsaw1939
10-01-2007, 08:39 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif... What a thread!....LEBillfish must be closer to my generation to have that kind of wisdom! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

MEGILE
10-01-2007, 09:50 AM
I would go to war with the depiction of a texas cheerleader straddling the nose of the aircraft any day.

Viper2005_
10-01-2007, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Why did WWII see an explosion of aero porn? The phenomenon was unseen in WWI. Discuss: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many reasons:

- Cameras were more readily available to unofficial photographers during WWII than during WWI; therefore it was easier for suggestive decoration of WWI aircraft to go un-reported if it was felt unsuited to the needs of the various propaganda ministries.

- The average life of a WWI combat aircraft was somewhat shorter than that of its WWII counterpart, so complex artwork made rather less sense unless the aircraft concerned was the property of an ace.

- Esquire magazine was one of the main sources of material for WWII "pin-up" nose art, and it wasn't founded until 1933.

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 10:47 AM
Here you go M

http://www.mattzudweg.com/images/nose/palm-beach-girl.jpg

Viper2005_
10-01-2007, 10:54 AM
LOL! "Emergency Rescue"!

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 10:55 AM
!!!!

Heliopause
10-01-2007, 11:10 AM
WWI was pre "roaring twenties"
WWII was post "roaring twenties"

MB_Avro_UK
10-01-2007, 03:04 PM
Hi all,

Didn't some RAF bombers have pin-ups on the nose (of the aircraft)?

The use of 'nose art' pin-ups by the RAF was frowned upon officially but I think a few got away with it.

But not today. Insults wimmin..

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 03:22 PM
As far as I know, the world's first airborne nude was on a Bristol Blenheim IV in the fall of 1939---the pilot taped an "artistic" photo to the side of his airplane. There was a Lancaster named "Sky Floozy" with a splendid nude on the side, but, based on just a rough study, I am beginning to suspect only Commonwealth squadrons were able to get away with painting nudes on their bombers.

The RAF may take the prize for the world's funniest and most mordant nose painting. A British fighter pilot who lost an arm to a German shell, and returned to flying with a prosthethic arm, had an arm being blown off by a cannon shell painted on the nose of his Hurricane---the hand was making the one-finger salute! When he posed with the picture, he was doing the same!

K_Freddie
10-01-2007, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
I would go to war with the depiction of a texas cheerleader straddling the nose of the aircraft any day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I just wouldn't take off ... so to say.
a/c parked in the corner of the hanger .. of course. Make sure I've just run the engine to make it warm - must be considerate you know - It's cold over there.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LEXX_Luthor
10-01-2007, 07:24 PM
Sex = War

It's 3 o'clock in the morning.
haha the Air Force never sleeps.
Buck honey, I'm not sleepy either.

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 08:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Sex = War </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pynchon explores the sexual ramifications of war in GRAVITY'S RAINBOW, which are very complicated. Sex=war is the Hollywood fantasy---a desire to believe Malraux' theory killing is the only pure act. This is mere decadence.

LEXX_Luthor
10-01-2007, 10:58 PM
I don't read the academic intellectuals, but I have read that the WW2 German press, among many other nations' media, also labelled as "decadent" all citizens who might question the war making.

Cajun76
10-01-2007, 11:12 PM
Gettin too deep for me, I just like looking at planes and partially nekkid women. Billfish, have you got a sister? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Enforcer572005
10-02-2007, 09:41 PM
Amazing how uninhibited the Americans themselves were but how much influence and messed up priorities the prudes that ran the society were. The same is even more true today....We Americans live in the most morally repressive society in the west. Islamic countries have nothing on America when it comes to such repression today. Im amazed the WW2 generation was able to do it...but it was because they were overseas.

That absurd fanatical prude was more concerned about her warped view of morality and purity than she was the fate of the men and what they had accomplished. Just like now here.

Longpo
10-03-2007, 01:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:

Harrumph, these artistic types, harrumph, always looking for, harrumph, lurid, harrumph, as they say these days "sub texts," harrumph. Cold showers is the cure, and perhaps a therapeutic sandbagging, harrumph. In my day... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Harrumph?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JN99jshaQbY

leitmotiv
10-03-2007, 01:59 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harrumph

MEGILE
10-03-2007, 02:18 AM
They locked cheerleaders pt dos http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

major_setback
10-03-2007, 02:24 AM
I wonder if it might have appeared 'girly' or 'soppy' at the time to have had a picture of a feminine lady on one of those old machines. They seemed to have plenty of other sorts of decoration though.

http://www.1stfighter.org/history/94thHistory_files/94th_Spad13_post_war.jpg

http://www.1stfighter.org/1stpursuit/images_1stpursuit/Buchanon3.jpg

http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Pearson/art/C.766.16s.jpg

http://www.kitreview.com/reviews/images/Ro_022_box.jpg

buzzsaw1939
10-03-2007, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Enforcer572005:
Amazing how uninhibited the Americans themselves were but how much influence and messed up priorities the prudes that ran the society were. The same is even more true today....We Americans live in the most morally repressive society in the west. Islamic countries have nothing on America when it comes to such repression today. Im amazed the WW2 generation was able to do it...but it was because they were overseas.

That absurd fanatical prude was more concerned about her warped view of morality and purity than she was the fate of the men and what they had accomplished. Just like now here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+ 1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I remember when I was a young man, hearing a couple old ladys setting in a both next to me, complaining about our morality, I choked on my sandwhich when one said "If God wanted us to be naked, we would have been born that way"

Carnage_2681
10-03-2007, 09:53 AM
Hmmm I think we need more naked woman as Signs in Il2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I have my favourite Nude Model as Sign when i´m flying US Planes

Carnage_2681
10-03-2007, 09:55 AM
I have heard the RAF not allowed Woman on Planes. The USAAF seems to be not so radical with this