PDA

View Full Version : 4.09 AI observation... In combat!



SeaFireLIV
02-20-2008, 05:39 PM
Ok, so I`ve been moved from the p39 D1, D2 and now the Spifire Vb (so much more comfortable).

4.09 109s are brutal. I was intercepted 4 of them attacking a bomber squad and locked on one while my wingmen (2) engaged the others.

I hit this 109 catching him by surprise as he focused on a bomber. he broke up then spiraled down. I thought he was gone, but then I saw him right himself and fly away. I zoomed after him as he ran. hit him a few more times as he manouevered but kept on ahead. I decided to close in for a more sure kill. Suddenly he levelled and slowed. haha! Thinks I.

Then 4 X 109 appeared ahead and above from nowhere. I ran, calling for help. As I turned, one sharp-eyed 109 hit me, busting my engine and smoke began billowing out. I manouevered for an emergency landing. Twice this 109 took shots at me at ground level and just missed.... just as I was about to land he hit me and I caught fire. I still tried to land, but caught fire and exploded. How brutally annoying.

Ok, next mission, came across 4 109s attacking bombers again. We engaged and took them down. again, I got separated, but killed my bogey and stayed high.

4 more 109s appeared, but just below me. I climbed and decided to see if I could use energy against them like with Humans online. the 109s passed below and climbed to have a go at me. I stayed high, circling all the time in my Spit Vb. Several times the 109s tried to climb to me, but every time, they stalled out and fell back. I couldn`t believe it, i was keeping 4 109s at bay by simply staying higher and they did not have the energy to get me.

Suddenly, it seemed the 109s gave it up as they stopped trying to climb and one I saw targeted a spitfire, so I dived in and attacked him.

The thing is energy does count against AI if you have it. I never tried doing this in 4.08 so is this new with 4.09?

SeaFireLIV
02-20-2008, 05:39 PM
Ok, so I`ve been moved from the p39 D1, D2 and now the Spifire Vb (so much more comfortable).

4.09 109s are brutal. I was intercepted 4 of them attacking a bomber squad and locked on one while my wingmen (2) engaged the others.

I hit this 109 catching him by surprise as he focused on a bomber. he broke up then spiraled down. I thought he was gone, but then I saw him right himself and fly away. I zoomed after him as he ran. hit him a few more times as he manouevered but kept on ahead. I decided to close in for a more sure kill. Suddenly he levelled and slowed. haha! Thinks I.

Then 4 X 109 appeared ahead and above from nowhere. I ran, calling for help. As I turned, one sharp-eyed 109 hit me, busting my engine and smoke began billowing out. I manouevered for an emergency landing. Twice this 109 took shots at me at ground level and just missed.... just as I was about to land he hit me and I caught fire. I still tried to land, but caught fire and exploded. How brutally annoying.

Ok, next mission, came across 4 109s attacking bombers again. We engaged and took them down. again, I got separated, but killed my bogey and stayed high.

4 more 109s appeared, but just below me. I climbed and decided to see if I could use energy against them like with Humans online. the 109s passed below and climbed to have a go at me. I stayed high, circling all the time in my Spit Vb. Several times the 109s tried to climb to me, but every time, they stalled out and fell back. I couldn`t believe it, i was keeping 4 109s at bay by simply staying higher and they did not have the energy to get me.

Suddenly, it seemed the 109s gave it up as they stopped trying to climb and one I saw targeted a spitfire, so I dived in and attacked him.

The thing is energy does count against AI if you have it. I never tried doing this in 4.08 so is this new with 4.09?

Huxley_S
02-20-2008, 06:42 PM
Is this 4.09 final or beta? Because in the beta version I find you can avoid being shot down by AI just by flying at low speed at tree-top level. The enemy circles, dives but just can't get a firing angle on you. All you have to do is wait for them to overfly and pick them off.

SeaFireLIV
02-20-2008, 06:46 PM
4.09 beta. they most definitely will shoot you at below treetop.

I`ll get a few screenshots tomorrow as i am tired... need bed...

zzzz

Feathered_IV
02-20-2008, 08:44 PM
I too have noticed some neat things in the 140mb 4.09b. Maybe they are undocumented enhancements. Maybe it is because I've ditched the grindingly repetetive online experience and just notice things more now. Whatever it is, I'm very content with the AI behaviour at the moment and am finding it to have much more variety than I previously thought.

M_Gunz
02-21-2008, 02:41 AM
Seafire, when is the last time you upgraded your PC and did you notice any change in AI then?
Memory and/or CPU is mostly what I'm thinking of.
Or is 4.09b perhaps less of a load than 4.08..?

rnzoli
02-21-2008, 03:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The thing is energy does count against AI if you have it. I never tried doing this in 4.08 so is this new with 4.09? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not new, at least I am 100% sure that the described climb/level out pattern due to energy constraints does happen to them in 4.08 as well.

Actually I am often flying 1 vs 1 quick engagements on various types in FMB, against an Ace AI, which means I have to deny almost any shot opportunities, or I am dead immediately. So either hard turning/corkscrewing, or staying on higher energy level can achieve this. In FMB I often experiment with stepping up my initial height by 200-500 meters (especially when I am flying an inferior plane against a better one) and see how long I can last. Starting from height advantage, it often happens that the Ace AI is practically hanging on my tail, within shooting distance, but unable to raise his gunsight/nose on me before he has to level out else he would stall.

That's the moment to wing over and dive back on him, while he is slow and steady http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SeaFireLIV
02-21-2008, 05:28 AM
Roger that, rnzoli, I wasn`t sure, since I`ve not tried staying above 109s in campaign before in this manner. It`s usually an online routine against Humans. Nice to know I can use it against AI anyway.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Seafire, when is the last time you upgraded your PC and did you notice any change in AI then?
Memory and/or CPU is mostly what I'm thinking of.
Or is 4.09b perhaps less of a load than 4.08..? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last change was a big one in november, MB,CPU, RAM. I didn`t immediately run IL2 to compare so can`t say, but I did just recently optimise my Ram timings perfectly (which cured my recurring out of memory errors). No idea if this has affected IL2 at all. 4.09b does feel better optimised than 4.08, but there are some graphic deviations with the new DLLs they`re working on...


Some pics of low flying 4.09 109 AI coming soon.

SeaFireLIV
02-21-2008, 06:31 AM
Here we are...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/nicegraphics-start.jpg

I like to wear Brit colours over the eastern front. Brit guy on loan to help the Russians, etc...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/britcolours.jpg


Ok, to the point, i`ve been hit and trying to land.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/tryingtoland.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/109shoots.jpg

Evil 109 fires.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/catchfire.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/noooobetter.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/explode.jpg

stalkervision
02-21-2008, 07:18 AM
That's not a very nice thing to do to you SeaFireLIV ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

evil 109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Friendly_flyer
02-21-2008, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Is this 4.09 final or beta? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a 4.09 final?

M_Gunz
02-21-2008, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Seafire, when is the last time you upgraded your PC and did you notice any change in AI then?
Memory and/or CPU is mostly what I'm thinking of.
Or is 4.09b perhaps less of a load than 4.08..? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last change was a big one in november, MB,CPU, RAM. I didn`t immediately run IL2 to compare so can`t say, but I did just recently optimise my Ram timings perfectly (which cured my recurring out of memory errors). No idea if this has affected IL2 at all. 4.09b does feel better optimised than 4.08, but there are some graphic deviations with the new DLLs they`re working on... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen AI get smarter in other sims when the PC was upgraded but I can't say that before then
if the computer was 'tight' for AI space and cycles. I dunno the priority of AI in IL2 though.

SeaFireLIV
02-21-2008, 01:01 PM
It was a good question and would answer why some people see no improvement while others see improvements, rather than a possible `placebo`.

Another interesting point concerned my Wingman. I wondered where he`d gone cos i called him to cover me. On the Replay, i noticed that he had stuck to me like glue while I was chasing the lone 109. But then another 109 came along and shot at the covering wingman, forcing him to break off on the defensive. I had no idea that this had happened, so focused was I on my prey.

The interesting thing was that usually, the 109 would have attacked me since I was attacking the other 109, but it went for my wingman instead.

There are some possible reasons for this....

Lurch1962
02-21-2008, 01:08 PM
I very seriously doubt that AI code is in any way dependent on computer resources. Low end machine or high, the AI behavior should be identical. The only difference will be smoothness of play and/or graphical niceties.

Covino
02-21-2008, 05:45 PM
PC hardware wont affect AI. The whole principle of .trk files is based on this. .trk files only record your joystick/command inputs and plays them back. Your FM and the AI will react the same on every playback... unless a patch changes the AI or FMs...

So if you want to see if AI or flight models really changed with a patch... playback a v4.08 .trk file in v4.09.
In the track...
...If your plane flies the same, but AI reacts differently... AI was updated.
...If your plane acts wildly or crashes into the ground... FMs were updated but AI changes are uncertain.

Haigotron
02-21-2008, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It was a good question and would answer why some people see no improvement while others see improvements, rather than a possible `placebo` </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im still skeptical, i believe its just a placebo effect, but I can be wrong. I am actually thinking: would a third party really tweak the AI for this patch...or just not bother with it?

mortoma
02-21-2008, 07:14 PM
There have not been any changes to AI since about the time PF came out. That was late 2004 or so. There was no change in 4.05 ( April '06 )
or when 1946 was introduced ( Late '06 or early '07. ) And really there have only been small tweaks in AI between Aces and Pacific!!