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View Full Version : T&B. A valid tactic or invalid excuse?



AFJ_Locust
03-03-2004, 10:21 PM
OK. Here is the question of the century... Is T&B a valid tactic IN THIS GAME online, or an excuse for lack of skill? My opinion is the latter.

Here is why!!! To me, it takes very little skill to TURN AND BURN, take off, twist & wriggle, get your shots off, and then TURN some more, like a girl ON ICE SKATES.

It takes a LOT of skill to B&Z and survive. Thats how I fly. I find the biggest mass of swirling bOOb's, twiriling on the deck and DIVE into there soon to be corpses!

I typically can get 6 kills and fly home without much problem. Sure there is a place for it once & a while, (t&b that is) but not in a dogfight server or in squad matches or dam near anywhere else for that matter.

And definataly not on a server like Slammins.

I have a 1 hour commute that has been slowly killing my brain cells (as you can tell) and my time. I have not had any time to play recentaly.

So I jump on slammin and started having a good time. Untill a boob squad started pulling some cheap BS. 3 members of this squad picked LA7'S and flew 500m over the enemy base.

They would all decend on whoever just took off and introduce a bunch of holes into the poor targets aluminum skin, and then fly away.(rinse & repeat over & over)

Its nearly impossible to counter this tactic 9if you can even call it that). I voiced my complaint, and got a "take off from the other airbase". So I did. Then they came after me again. It took them a good 15 minutes of constant pouncing 3 on 1 to finally take my DORA down. I was hoping to run them out of ammo. I have delt with this kind before (QUACK YAK QUACK) and I have found that TYPICALLY, thoes people who T&B are NOT good pilots. Take them 1 on 1, and they will flop and flail LIKE A DYING FISH, or run away in there LA7'S.

Later on I came back to slammin and found the SAME squad who VULCHED ME and everyone on my team relentlessly, and they DID NOT have the advantage THIS TIME. So I promply dispatched all 3 LA7'S EASILY. Now for people who say "VULCHERING was a proper tactic in WWII", I have this to say. YA! IT WAS! You know why? Because killing the enemy WAS THE MAIN OBJECTIVE !!! They feared a pro-longed enguagement and prefered to VULCH-N-RUN on an enemy base and survive. But we, pilots of IL2 in dogfight servers should not T&B or vultcher. I have had many T&B pilot's run away from my DORA and I asked them "why run?!?!?!?".

There reply was "your in a better aircraft with an altitude advantage". Well #1, thats true, and #2, its the pilot, not the aircraft that makes it better. (HAR HAR HAR)

So I landed my DORA and took off in a FW190A5. The LA7 pilot STILL RAN!!! I asked: "Why run now? The FW190A5 is a MUCH better dogfighter then the LA7 ?" And I GET no reply.

This only proved my POINT. T&B'ers have no skill !!! What do you think?

Im guessing this will start a few flames, but it will be interesting to see the reply's.

Just dont make it "personal" or this thread will be locked.

DBH.

dOnT belive the hYpE.
mEdia AsSasiNs


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I made this post for fun to show the IGNORANCE of another simular post slaming on other fight style's that dont line up with his gunsights or Ideas of what a "DF" should be.

Fly what you want............ YOU BOUGHT THE DAM GAME & ILL DO THE SAME.

BTW Dont piss down my back & tell me its raining. LOL

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

AFJ_Locust
03-03-2004, 10:21 PM
OK. Here is the question of the century... Is T&B a valid tactic IN THIS GAME online, or an excuse for lack of skill? My opinion is the latter.

Here is why!!! To me, it takes very little skill to TURN AND BURN, take off, twist & wriggle, get your shots off, and then TURN some more, like a girl ON ICE SKATES.

It takes a LOT of skill to B&Z and survive. Thats how I fly. I find the biggest mass of swirling bOOb's, twiriling on the deck and DIVE into there soon to be corpses!

I typically can get 6 kills and fly home without much problem. Sure there is a place for it once & a while, (t&b that is) but not in a dogfight server or in squad matches or dam near anywhere else for that matter.

And definataly not on a server like Slammins.

I have a 1 hour commute that has been slowly killing my brain cells (as you can tell) and my time. I have not had any time to play recentaly.

So I jump on slammin and started having a good time. Untill a boob squad started pulling some cheap BS. 3 members of this squad picked LA7'S and flew 500m over the enemy base.

They would all decend on whoever just took off and introduce a bunch of holes into the poor targets aluminum skin, and then fly away.(rinse & repeat over & over)

Its nearly impossible to counter this tactic 9if you can even call it that). I voiced my complaint, and got a "take off from the other airbase". So I did. Then they came after me again. It took them a good 15 minutes of constant pouncing 3 on 1 to finally take my DORA down. I was hoping to run them out of ammo. I have delt with this kind before (QUACK YAK QUACK) and I have found that TYPICALLY, thoes people who T&B are NOT good pilots. Take them 1 on 1, and they will flop and flail LIKE A DYING FISH, or run away in there LA7'S.

Later on I came back to slammin and found the SAME squad who VULCHED ME and everyone on my team relentlessly, and they DID NOT have the advantage THIS TIME. So I promply dispatched all 3 LA7'S EASILY. Now for people who say "VULCHERING was a proper tactic in WWII", I have this to say. YA! IT WAS! You know why? Because killing the enemy WAS THE MAIN OBJECTIVE !!! They feared a pro-longed enguagement and prefered to VULCH-N-RUN on an enemy base and survive. But we, pilots of IL2 in dogfight servers should not T&B or vultcher. I have had many T&B pilot's run away from my DORA and I asked them "why run?!?!?!?".

There reply was "your in a better aircraft with an altitude advantage". Well #1, thats true, and #2, its the pilot, not the aircraft that makes it better. (HAR HAR HAR)

So I landed my DORA and took off in a FW190A5. The LA7 pilot STILL RAN!!! I asked: "Why run now? The FW190A5 is a MUCH better dogfighter then the LA7 ?" And I GET no reply.

This only proved my POINT. T&B'ers have no skill !!! What do you think?

Im guessing this will start a few flames, but it will be interesting to see the reply's.

Just dont make it "personal" or this thread will be locked.

DBH.

dOnT belive the hYpE.
mEdia AsSasiNs


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I made this post for fun to show the IGNORANCE of another simular post slaming on other fight style's that dont line up with his gunsights or Ideas of what a "DF" should be.

Fly what you want............ YOU BOUGHT THE DAM GAME & ILL DO THE SAME.

BTW Dont piss down my back & tell me its raining. LOL

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

BpGemini
03-03-2004, 10:42 PM
There are dams in this game?
I believe the dam you are looking for is spelt with an 'n' on the end.


On a serious note; if you donâ't have to do both tactics from time to time then maybe you fellas are flying something a little too uber.

;)

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

J30Vader
03-03-2004, 10:50 PM
Back in my RB days, we had a saying.

"If you promise not to out turn me I won't outrun you."

BuzzU
03-03-2004, 11:01 PM
I don't think one is harder than the other. They're just different. It's much easier to stay alive with B&Z, so doesn't that make it easier?

Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg

03-03-2004, 11:03 PM
I don't think one is harder than the other. They're just different. It's much easier to stay alive with B&Z, so doesn't that make it easier?

That's the wisest thing I've ever heard all day.

BpGemini
03-03-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
I don't think one is harder than the other. They're just different. It's much easier to stay alive with B&Z, so doesn't that make it easier?


B&Z IS easier anyone who actually believes it isn't is kidding themselves. Both, are valid tactics.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

AFJ_Locust
03-03-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
I don't think one is harder than the other. They're just different. It's much easier to stay alive with B&Z, so doesn't that make it easier?

Buzz


Not easier buzz just less of a target, dont tell me your flying p38 < p51 < o47 in the deck ? the hard deck for any of thoes birds should be near 3000m & id rather be @ 5500 or higher :)

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

Gianordolli
03-03-2004, 11:22 PM
Bnz attacks are not easy, you MUST have some or a lot of skill to attack the enemy in the right time and in some cases you have to make more than 1 pass, and there is more one disadvantage: its caracteristic of wide turners fighters, they cant turn decently.

i Think turn and burn easyer because who likes to combat in this way, likes to fly with extra 300 planes (you move and she respond)planes easyer to ride ex: zeros, la5s etc..etc..

BpGemini
03-03-2004, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Gianordolli:
Bnz attacks are not easy, you MUST have some or a lot of skill to attack the enemy in the right time and in some cases you have to make more than 1 pass, and there is more one disadvantage: its caracteristic of wide turners fighters, they cant turn decently.

i Think turn and burn easyer because who likes to combat in this way, likes to fly with extra 300 planes (you move and she respond)planes easyer to ride ex: zeros, la5s etc..etc..


First, I don't recall anyone saying B&Z was easy in this thread.... just easier.

T&B is like being in the trenches with bullets whizzing by your head and guys near by who want you dead.

B&Z is like being part of a naval off-shore bombardment, sure it's tough to hit the target but you sure as hell are in a much safer place while doing it.

;)



____________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

BuzzU
03-03-2004, 11:33 PM
Another thing to consider is even though the T&B planes are easier to fly. They're easier to fly for everybody. In that way it's hard to stay alive. If it was my real life on the line. I would never jump in a furball, and T&B. I would B&Z and take no chances of stalling or getting three Yaks on my six.

Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg

BpGemini
03-03-2004, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
Another thing to consider is even though the T&B planes are easier to fly. They're easier to fly for everybody. In that way it's hard to stay alive. If it was my real life on the line. I would never jump in a furball, and T&B. I would B&Z and take no chances of stalling or getting three Yaks on my six.



I wouldnâ't say T&B planes are easier to fly. Some of the most uber planes are B&Z by nature. Not to mention the fact of needing to learn and excel at more maneuvers down in the trenches.



_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

Dmitri9mm
03-03-2004, 11:47 PM
I don't really care what offensive tactics a player uses. The different planes handles in a unique way, and of course you fly according to that!
What really detemines players skill, is what happens once he/she is in a disadvantage situation.
It takes far more skill, to combat yourself out of a situation where you are low and slow and have a bindit comming at you at high speed.
The defensive tactics are actually much more interesting, especially for me since I have a bad habbit of ending up in disadvantage after the first moves!
I'm not just talking about dodging enemy fire, anyone can do that, but how you actually turn the fight to your advantage. Are you a fan of the "level scissors" or the "wing over", in what planes should you stay low and what planes demand an altitude advantage?
It's when the s**t hits the fan that REAL skill is determined!

BuzzU
03-03-2004, 11:48 PM
GEM,
I was responding to Gianordoli's post, but now that you brought it up. Which true T&B planes are hard to fly?

Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg

Gianordolli
03-03-2004, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
Another thing to consider is even though the T&B planes are easier to fly. They're easier to fly for everybody. In that way it's hard to stay alive. If it was my real life on the line. I would never jump in a furball, and T&B. I would B&Z and take no chances of stalling or getting three Yaks on my six.

Furball is more luck than ability, everybody hits everyone Buzz.

BpGemini
03-03-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
GEM,
I was responding to Gianordoli's post, but now that you brought it up. Which true T&B planes are hard to fly?


Check out my thread in the CWoS FB Forum. :)


_________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

BpGemini
03-03-2004, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Gianordolli:
Furball is more luck than ability, everybody hits everyone Buzz.


You haven't been in many FR "furballs" have you? LOL

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

BuzzU
03-03-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Gianordolli:

Originally posted by BuzzU:
Another thing to consider is even though the T&B planes are easier to fly. They're easier to fly for everybody. In that way it's hard to stay alive. If it was my real life on the line. I would never jump in a furball, and T&B. I would B&Z and take no chances of stalling or getting three Yaks on my six.

Furball is more luck than ability, everybody hits everyone Buzz.

There is some luck involved, just like there is in B&Z. However, when you see someone who can consistantly fight in furballs, and not get killed. You have to think they might have some skill.

Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg

Gianordolli
03-04-2004, 12:08 AM
Gemini, we are having a great talk here.

lets get back to the great cfs1 days

did you remember that everybody was used to get the Hawker to fight in furballs? why? because it was easy to fly,it could turn damn sharp and those battles was full of newbies, i could see many guys with hawkers and p51s splashing alone in the ground, or dying in head on attacks.

when i played, i liked to get the fw190 because it was tough to turn, and so i could boom and zoom those dogs running behing each ones tail till someone kicks me out of game, i was used to enjoy everything that plane had to offer, great speed and good firepower.

now in fb, i dont like to go to furballs, because i know that its full of newbies and i see EVERYTHING that happened in cfs1 happening again in the fb, thats why i prefer the no fun games, and you're right, i just played furballs 2 times in fb since i installed it, the reason i already explained

Gibbage1
03-04-2004, 12:49 AM
Nice try, but there is no way you can acheave my greatness in such a thread! 20 pages of flamage!! Muahahahaha!!!

Locust. Isent a pressure-suite standard issue for AFJ members?

WUAF_Badsight
03-04-2004, 12:56 AM
i thought this was setteled ?

the skill involved in BnZ relates to aiming

the skill involved in TnB is in flying ability

BlackHawkLeader
03-04-2004, 02:31 AM
You people surprise me!
I thought some of you where more intelligent than this!
Each Pilot it does not matter which side you fly for Online, Axis or Allies, will attempt to suck the enemy into fighting them so that they can use the strengths of their aircraft against the weaknesses of the opponents aircraft.

Some aircraft with their fast rate of climb, like the 109 is an ideal Boom and Zoom fighter.
Others like the Hurricane are excellent turn fighters.

When 2 experten opponents fight in aircraft like that, there is no certain out come, for each knows the capabilities of their aircraft its strong and weak points.
Now that is one v one, when teams fight like that it is quite an experience I can assure you, and the out come is still not certain.
S!

JG27_Arklight
03-04-2004, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by BuzzU:

Originally posted by Gianordolli:

Originally posted by BuzzU:
Another thing to consider is even though the T&B planes are easier to fly. They're easier to fly for everybody. In that way it's hard to stay alive. If it was my real life on the line. I would never jump in a furball, and T&B. I would B&Z and take no chances of stalling or getting three Yaks on my six.

Furball is more luck than ability, everybody hits everyone Buzz.

There is some luck involved, just like there is in B&Z. However, when you see someone who can consistantly fight in furballs, and not get killed. You have to think they might have some skill.

Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg




Aristo is a good example.

I can't even count how many times I have seen that guy dive into a furball and start T&B'ing with people and not one person can touch him. He'll have people chasing him and shooting at his silly *** the whole time and next thing you know he is on their 6 pasting the hell out of them.

Ark

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I fear nothing, for I am driving a Frogfoot.
------------
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ASUS P4C800-E (Rev. 11)
1GB Mushkin PC3500 LvL2 Black @ 2-2-2-5
Radeon 9800XT (Cat. 3.10)
SB Augigy Gamer
Antec True550
Zalman 7000A-CU HSF
4 Case fans/1 120mm Blowhole

RedDeth
03-04-2004, 02:50 AM
"Locust. Isent a pressure-suite standard issue for AFJ members?" lol. somehow i have to incorporate this into my sig

www.fighterjocks.net home of Now 12 time Champions AFJ www.alloutwar.com/IL2FS/ http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509034.jpg

JG77Hawk_9
03-04-2004, 03:04 AM
Don't go there girl friend (-;

AFJ_Locust
03-04-2004, 09:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
I don't think one is harder than the other. They're just different. It's much easier to stay alive with B&Z, so doesn't that make it easier?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


B&Z IS easier anyone who actually believes it isn't is kidding themselves. Both, are valid tactics.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realy think that should be refrazed:

B&Z is Smarter because anyone can t&b...

Im not saying Im smarter than you or anyone else Im just saying.

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

AFJ_Locust
03-04-2004, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
B&Z is like being part of a naval off-shore bombardment, sure it's tough to hit the target but you sure as hell are in a much safer place while doing it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats what im talkin bout http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif Ie: Smarter

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

Teufel_Eldritch
03-04-2004, 10:07 PM
AFJ_Locust
*whiiiiiizzzzz* It's raining. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

YANKEE ROSE
-----------
"For a world of happiness & equality is but a fantasy driven by men who envy the ruling class."

AFJ_Locust
03-04-2004, 10:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gianordolli:
Gemini, we are having a great talk here.

lets get back to the great cfs1 days

did you remember that everybody was used to get the Hawker to fight in furballs? why? because it was easy to fly,it could turn damn sharp and those battles was full of newbies, i could see many guys with hawkers and p51s splashing alone in the ground, or dying in head on attacks.

when i played, i liked to get the fw190 because it was tough to turn, and so i could boom and zoom those dogs running behing each ones tail till someone kicks me out of game, i was used to enjoy everything that plane had to offer, great speed and good firepower.

now in fb, i dont like to go to furballs, because i know that its full of newbies and i see EVERYTHING that happened in cfs1 happening again in the fb, thats why i prefer the no fun games, and you're right, i just played furballs 2 times in fb since i installed it, the reason i already explained<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

AFJ_Locust
03-04-2004, 10:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Nice try, but there is no way you can acheave my greatness in such a thread! 20 pages of flamage!! Muahahahaha!!!

Locust. Isent a pressure-suite standard issue for AFJ members?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know thats right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif (the part about the Space suite)

I will Crush your punny BNZ thredd with my TNB superpost & Ill swipe half of your original thredd while Im @ it LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

AFJ_Locust
03-04-2004, 10:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i thought this was setteled ?

the skill involved in BnZ relates to aiming

the skill involved in TnB is in flying ability<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Classic !!!! Thats all I have to say is Classic !!!!

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/