PDA

View Full Version : The Tempest Thread(tm)



Pages : [1] 2 3

VW-IceFire
03-06-2005, 12:09 PM
Hey all,

I've heard the rumor that all third party work on new game content is due to end shortly. Perhaps in the next week or two. I'm not sure if that applies to maps because I think there's still some work going on there.

But in any case, my attempts to contact Mr. Voicu have failed (his e-mail no longer seems to work) and I was just wondering if anyone has information on if the Tempest V cockpit made it.

I've been waiting paitently (most of the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) for the chance to fly this aircraft. I think it'd be a shame to loose it now but I'm crossing my fingers.

Hopefully I don't develop a cramp in those fingers, they've been crossed for a while http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
03-06-2005, 12:55 PM
using new magic technique, i can see icefires dreams http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

using fraps, this image was captured http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//icefiretempest.jpg

stathem
03-06-2005, 01:30 PM
Is that from a certain DVD about a certain air force? Does it have Gun cam shots of a Tempest blowing up a V-1? I was thinking of doing a similar thing, not had time yet.

p1ngu666
03-06-2005, 02:09 PM
nah its from a book. could be off a film tho, as alot of films are surprisingly high quality http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

stathem
03-06-2005, 02:20 PM
Aha, yep you're right, maybe fraps would be better.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/griffnav/Gallery/Mossies.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/griffnav/Gallery/TempestScramble.jpg

p1ngu666
03-06-2005, 02:31 PM
cool pics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

actully, i just used my camera to take pic of back cover of typhoon and tempest book http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

what DVD is that ?

stathem
03-06-2005, 02:48 PM
It's IWM Officail Collection, RAF At War. It's a series of WW2 newsreels'made by the RAF for the RAF' type of thing, I'll try to do some more soon

VW-IceFire
03-06-2005, 03:44 PM
Ohhh...DVD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LeadSpitter_
03-06-2005, 04:50 PM
Does a bear cr@p in the woods?

Da_Godfatha
03-06-2005, 05:08 PM
"Seeing is believing"

No601_Zulu
03-07-2005, 06:40 AM
~S~ IceFire

I'm with you on this one. This is one of the most important British aircraft of WWII. I am really hoping that the Tempest makes it to IL2 FB AEP PF before the close. I hear rumours that the cockpit is in the final stages of completion, but its getting very frustating. And the thought of Tempest being AI only, is well unthinkable.

VW-IceFire
03-07-2005, 07:21 AM
Agreed...

I'm going to try and once again contact the modeler but I had my e-mail bounce the last time.

EDIT: Bounced again.

MEGILE
03-07-2005, 08:03 AM
I'd be gutted if the Tesmpest, Spitfire XIV and Mossie all didn't make it in... but I could understand if Oleg was too busy with BoB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Philipscdrw
03-07-2005, 08:51 AM
In the end, they'll all be in BoB, and that will really rule...

I would like to see the Mosquito and Tempest before then though! I eagerly followed the development at Il2center and Netwings...

AlmightyTallest
03-07-2005, 09:20 AM
I'd like to see another late war Allied aircraft like this as well.

We've had some bad news over the last few months, I hope this plane would be a part of the good news I'm hoping for.

VW-IceFire
03-07-2005, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
In the end, they'll all be in BoB, and that will really rule...

I would like to see the Mosquito and Tempest before then though! I eagerly followed the development at Il2center and Netwings... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They wouldn't be in BoB.

Maybe after...but we're going to the Med first apparently so none of those till much later.

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 01:59 PM
Oleg
http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempestsmall.jpg

unleash the tempest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempestbig.jpg

if oleg put XIV, tempest, mossie in same patch, it will be know as the "ACTUNG! RAF" patch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

VW-IceFire
03-07-2005, 02:48 PM
Wow...neat picture! I've never seen a shot like that of the early Series 1 Tempest V. Impressive.

stathem
03-07-2005, 02:49 PM
Ditto
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/griffnav/Gallery/TempestII.jpg

Wouldn't it be sweet if we could get this version too!
(Actual WW2 shot, not post war, mind you,the P gives it away)

VW-IceFire
03-07-2005, 02:55 PM
The Mark II prototype as well! Man thats a cool and rare bird as well. Was the Mark II prototype a conversion of the Mark V prototype or was it from a Typhoon. I can't remember...

stathem
03-07-2005, 03:01 PM
From my very limited knowledge, I think they were built as separate prototypes, from he Typhoon II, but the centauros engine had more teething troubles than the Sabre. Shame, I think it was a wee bit quicker. Weren't there versions to take the Griffon too? Pingu would prob. know better than I

Alex_Voicu
03-07-2005, 03:47 PM
Icefire, sorry for the bounced e-mails. That mail server broke down a long time ago but i remember i sent you a message with my other e-mail address.

The external is now implemented in the game as an AI plane. I think i'm done with the cockpit, but the final textures may take a little longer. I just hope everything goes well when the model will be sent to Oleg.

lrrp22
03-07-2005, 04:41 PM
Alex,

Do you mean that Oleg already has the Tempest interior, or that you have a little more work to do before submitting?

Thanks for your hard work in getting the Tempest implemented!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex_Voicu:
Icefire, sorry for the bounced e-mails. That mail server broke down a long time ago but i remember i sent you a message with my other e-mail address.

The external is now implemented in the game as an AI plane. I think i'm done with the cockpit, but the final textures may take a little longer. I just hope everything goes well when the model will be sent to Oleg. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

VW-IceFire
03-07-2005, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex_Voicu:
Icefire, sorry for the bounced e-mails. That mail server broke down a long time ago but i remember i sent you a message with my other e-mail address.

The external is now implemented in the game as an AI plane. I think i'm done with the cockpit, but the final textures may take a little longer. I just hope everything goes well when the model will be sent to Oleg. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mmmm I must have lost the address in my e-mail backup when I had to reformat (wonders of technology). Anyways, thats reassuring...we've run into a minor setback with the XIV Project but its back on track at the moment so I'm crossing fingers we all make it! I'll save the heart attack for later if need be...good luck sir!

ImpStarDuece
03-07-2005, 06:10 PM
I'd love the idea of the Spitfire XIV, Mosquito F/B and the Tempest all arriving at the same time. About time the Brits got some more iron (or wood!) into the skies.

I am in the research and planning stages of a early 44 to very late 44/very early 45 campaign. I know there are more than a few floating around but I really want to simulate the build up to and fighting of the initial stages of the liberation of France.

At the moment I envision a tactical air war outlook; jabos and twins being the stars, fighters and quads in the auxilary roles. Sort of like CFS3 should of been. I've always been a ground pounder at heart, i'd rather take out a tank than a bogey. Guess thats why I love the Jug!

Imagine Mitchells and A-20s done up in RAF colours; Tempests, Spitfire IXs and XIVs and RAF Mustangs flying escort; Mossies and P-47s doing fast Jabo work and 'free hunt' ground straffing; Beach head support for Overlord; Hurri IICs hitting supply depots; V1 hunting missions roaming along the coastline
; missions leading upto the Falaise gap; the F/B carnage as the German army beats a retreat out of Normandy; Maybe even ground pounding in 38s and 47s around Bastonge.

As far as I can see it will take a solid six months of planning. At the moment i'm still building up my relationship with the FMB. She is fickle but fun!

Having a Mossie and a Tempset would make things a lot more interesting at medium altitude. Would give the Allies some late war recompense against the A8, A9, D9, G-10 and K-4. Also, I would like (nay, need) some more ammo load outs for the Hurri IIc. Outdated in '44 by a BIG margin but still an amazingly effective ground pounder and suprisingly deadly right on the deck. Rings PRO site has an excellent study of the effects of two 500lbrs on the flight characteristics of the Hurricane. Much better than those piddling little 250lb jobs for jabo missions.

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 07:28 PM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempests1.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempests2.jpg


http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempests3.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempests4.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempests5.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempests6.jpg big pic of ammo stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//tempests7.jpg

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 07:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
I'd love the idea of the Spitfire XIV, Mosquito F/B and the Tempest all arriving at the same time. About time the Brits got some more iron (or wood!) into the skies.

I am in the research and planning stages of a early 44 to very late 44/very early 45 campaign. I know there are more than a few floating around but I really want to simulate the build up to and fighting of the initial stages of the liberation of France.

At the moment I envision a tactical air war outlook; jabos and twins being the stars, fighters and quads in the auxilary roles. Sort of like CFS3 should of been. I've always been a ground pounder at heart, i'd rather take out a tank than a bogey. Guess thats why I love the Jug!

Imagine Mitchells and A-20s done up in RAF colours; Tempests, Spitfire IXs and XIVs and RAF Mustangs flying escort; Mossies and P-47s doing fast Jabo work and 'free hunt' ground straffing; Beach head support for Overlord; Hurri IICs hitting supply depots; V1 hunting missions roaming along the coastline
; missions leading upto the Falaise gap; the F/B carnage as the German army beats a retreat out of Normandy; Maybe even ground pounding in 38s and 47s around Bastonge.

As far as I can see it will take a solid six months of planning. At the moment i'm still building up my relationship with the FMB. She is fickle but fun!

Having a Mossie and a Tempset would make things a lot more interesting at medium altitude. Would give the Allies some late war recompense against the A8, A9, D9, G-10 and K-4. Also, I would like (nay, need) some more ammo load outs for the Hurri IIc. Outdated in '44 by a BIG margin but still an amazingly effective ground pounder and suprisingly deadly right on the deck. Rings PRO site has an excellent study of the effects of two 500lbrs on the flight characteristics of the Hurricane. Much better than those piddling little 250lb jobs for jabo missions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

tempests did fast jabo, big question is, will we have rockets?

sneaking over the channel, at 0 feet and 300mph+ for sneaky raids will be fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gifbtw, for dday stuff, the germans had g6,g6late and a8 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

i can give u some links to mossie stuff from books ive uploaded before, and i can do some for the typhoon aswell.
dont have much on XIV IX and p51 and hurri missions, i have got some stuff tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
03-07-2005, 09:28 PM
Which book is this? I NEED IT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 10:32 PM
typoon and tempest at war, and a 4+ one, which is iccle, and has TINY text.
the text is smaller than a ants peenuss, at the north pole http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/pingutiffy.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/pinguandnapire.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

thats me btw, and the monopod makes me look fantasticly silly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

jeanba2
03-07-2005, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:


tempests did fast jabo, big question is, will we have rockets?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
During WW2, the Tempest did not carry rockets, only the dearly missing Typhoon did.
Anyway, I hope that in the game it will be able to carry rockets, as this could be an acceptable replacement for the Typhoon.
In Normandy, the Tempest was used at the very beginning of the campaign, as it was quickly transfered to the defence of the homeland against V1.

ImpStarDuece
03-08-2005, 03:25 AM
Pingu, thanks for the offer mate but i have really only started research and am already drowning in information. If I do need more mossie info I now know where to look! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Oh, and i recon it would take more than a monopod to make you look silly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I'm thinking of inventing a 2TAF Spitfire squadron into existence but having it carry out the combined chronologies of a couple of different squadrons. Have it progress through various Spitfire marks (V through to XIV) and run it through the full gammut of mission types; base defence, sweep, escort, late evening/early morning intercepts, lots of ground pounding (V1 sites, Transportation plan, battle field interdiction, front line straffing, pin point dive bombing, tree top airfield straffing) and some other suprises as well.

If only we were getting the Tempest then I could of done a complete 56th squadron campaign (they went from Hurris to Tyffies to Spits to the Tempest, with a few other swithces in there!). Not that would be cool.

The lack of Westernfront maps really narrow my focus. This is a good thing though, otherwise I would have enough material to build a couple of hundred missions!

VW-IceFire
03-08-2005, 07:06 AM
Imp...I'm trying to see what we can do about having a generic western front map so that we can do campaigns like you've suggested.

Fish6891
03-08-2005, 09:05 AM
Ty Alex!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
03-08-2005, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Pingu, thanks for the offer mate but i have really only started research and am already drowning in information. If I do need more mossie info I now know where to look! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Oh, and i recon it would take more than a monopod to make you look silly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I'm thinking of inventing a 2TAF Spitfire squadron into existence but having it carry out the combined chronologies of a couple of different squadrons. Have it progress through various Spitfire marks (V through to XIV) and run it through the full gammut of mission types; base defence, sweep, escort, late evening/early morning intercepts, lots of ground pounding (V1 sites, Transportation plan, battle field interdiction, front line straffing, pin point dive bombing, tree top airfield straffing) and some other suprises as well.

If only we were getting the Tempest then I could of done a complete 56th squadron campaign (they went from Hurris to Tyffies to Spits to the Tempest, with a few other swithces in there!). Not that would be cool.

The lack of Westernfront maps really narrow my focus. This is a good thing though, otherwise I would have enough material to build a couple of hundred missions! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

u could do so u are spare bod, and jump from squadron to squadron, and ofcouse different plane types http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Alex_Voicu
03-08-2005, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
Alex,

Do you mean that Oleg already has the Tempest interior, or that you have a little more work to do before submitting?

Thanks for your hard work in getting the Tempest implemented!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will send the cockpit model to Oleg when Hammerd is done with the final textures. I don't want to send something that is only half finished.

Regarding the rockets, the AI Tempest is already carrying them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jagdmailer
03-08-2005, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex_Voicu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
Alex,

Do you mean that Oleg already has the Tempest interior, or that you have a little more work to do before submitting?

Thanks for your hard work in getting the Tempest implemented!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will send the cockpit model to Oleg when Hammerd is done with the final textures. I don't want to send something that is only half finished.

Regarding the rockets, the AI Tempest is already carrying them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You guys get rockets for the Tempest ?? What about LW Panzerblitz rockets for the Fw 190F-8 that has been in the game for over a year or 2 now ??

Jagd

lrrp22
03-08-2005, 11:22 AM
Excellent Alex, thanks!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex_Voicu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
Alex,

Do you mean that Oleg already has the Tempest interior, or that you have a little more work to do before submitting?

Thanks for your hard work in getting the Tempest implemented!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will send the cockpit model to Oleg when Hammerd is done with the final textures. I don't want to send something that is only half finished.

Regarding the rockets, the AI Tempest is already carrying them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

VW-IceFire
03-08-2005, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex_Voicu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
Alex,

Do you mean that Oleg already has the Tempest interior, or that you have a little more work to do before submitting?

Thanks for your hard work in getting the Tempest implemented!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will send the cockpit model to Oleg when Hammerd is done with the final textures. I don't want to send something that is only half finished.

Regarding the rockets, the AI Tempest is already carrying them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You guys get rockets for the Tempest ?? What about LW Panzerblitz rockets for the Fw 190F-8 that has been in the game for over a year or 2 now ??

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As far as I know, the F-9 is the FW190 that carried Panzerblitz rockets. And I would be the first person to argue for their inclusion...infact I have argued for their inclusion in the past along with a F-9 variant which would be a A-9 conversion. VERY simple but its never happened.

The difference is that the FW190s are Oleg's teams creation and the Tempest V is a third party creation. The Tempest V was equipped and rated with rockets. Their use in combat is apparently nil...but it was fully certified and there are pictures with Tempests during the war with rockets installed on the wings. It does make up for the fact that there will never be a Typhoon in the sim.

Alex, I'd say be very careful about the timeline...make sure Oleg knows whats coming because apparently the cutoff date for acceptance of anything is the "middle of March". We're rushing with the XIV to be done with that too.

p1ngu666
03-08-2005, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex_Voicu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
Alex,

Do you mean that Oleg already has the Tempest interior, or that you have a little more work to do before submitting?

Thanks for your hard work in getting the Tempest implemented!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will send the cockpit model to Oleg when Hammerd is done with the final textures. I don't want to send something that is only half finished.

Regarding the rockets, the AI Tempest is already carrying them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You guys get rockets for the Tempest ?? What about LW Panzerblitz rockets for the Fw 190F-8 that has been in the game for over a year or 2 now ??

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no one is against panzerblitz, quite the opposite i belive http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

alex, if possible, could u send the rocket rails as a 3dmax file to pingu666 @gmail.com ? i think they was used on the swordfish, so it would save us some time (me and a friend are doing swordfish http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )
ill give some things in return, be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Brain32
03-08-2005, 01:37 PM
Just bumping the topic in hope Oleg will se it.
I would trade half of the already flyable planes in game for Tempest IF I had to.

cygfrain
03-08-2005, 01:49 PM
Thanks Alex_Voicu for all the hard work you have obviously put into the Tempest V http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif. I look forward flying against the AI version and can't wait to "fly" the flyable version.

Thanks.

ImpStarDuece
03-08-2005, 06:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Imp...I'm trying to see what we can do about having a generic western front map so that we can do campaigns like you've suggested. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool, I'd be seriously pleased with an Antwerp based map as well. It gives the Allies (particularly the Brits and Canadians) a really great little playground with a variety of targets (land and sea based). Its also one of the few areas that aren't on the "BoB proscribed" list.

A generic map would be good though; i've been playing with a few of the online maps for some 'training' style missions; they work reansoably well for a 'some where in Europe' setting. I'm almost itching to see the new maps that Ianboys is going to hit us with. Wondering what the possibilities are.

The more I play with the FMB the more addictive this game gets. To think, as of 6 months ago I had only every played the stock offline campaigns. Now i'm looking at making my own campaign, skinning planes for it and (maybe) building some co-ops to go along with it. I think I may need help!

For me the best thing that came out of PF was the flyable Bostns and Mitchells. 137 and 139 Wing here we come.

VW-IceFire
03-08-2005, 06:21 PM
Agreed...I spent alot of my time making campaigns these days. I've got three in the works:

- F6F5 Marianas on the USS Bunkerhill with VF-18
- La-5FN with the 3rd GvIAP north of Leningrad in 1944
- P-38 with the 9th AF over Normandy after the invasion

p1ngu666
03-08-2005, 06:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cygfrain:
Thanks Alex_Voicu for all the hard work you have obviously put into the Tempest V http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif. I look forward flying against the AI version and can't wait to "fly" the flyable version.

Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep THANKYOU http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ImpStarDuece
03-08-2005, 07:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Agreed...I spent alot of my time making campaigns these days. I've got three in the works:

- F6F5 Marianas on the USS Bunkerhill with VF-18
- La-5FN with the 3rd GvIAP north of Leningrad in 1944
- P-38 with the 9th AF over Normandy after the invasion <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


3 at one time! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Might stop you getting bored but just one is eating up a good 3 hours a day at the moment for me.

They sound great. I'm not much chop with the Russian birds but if you want a playtester for the P-38 or F6F5 campaign keep me in mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Would love to see what you are doing for Normandy and the 9th. My own focus is on the 2TAF. This is my first attempt at a campaign and i'm going to be sweating square bullets to make it as good as it can be.

VW-IceFire
03-08-2005, 08:20 PM
Naa doesn't really take me three hours. Well it takes about two to setup a map the way I want it and then I just keep saving and changing stuff as needed. Adding detail to a section of the map as needed as well.

Right now, I'm just making the La-5FN missions about one a night. Takes about an hour to setup and playtest. The scenario I spent about 3-4 hours researching so that I have the basics of the frontline down (and all major dates) and then planning the missions. The La-5 campaign will have 11 missions against the Finnish airforce and some Luftwaffe involvement.

The Hellcat one is done (with 12 missions) but its needing that Jill torpedo bomber for accuracy and I'd prefer to make some balance changes before I send it out. So its waiting for the patch.

The P-38 one is still planning. More ground attack for this campaign.

No601_Zulu
03-18-2005, 06:02 AM
IceFire

Bumped for a good cause. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Monty_Thrud
03-18-2005, 02:25 PM
PLEASE!...PPPPLLLLLEEEEEAAAASSSEEE!...we need the Spitfire MkXIV...if we get the XIV, i'll shave my testicles...live on the internet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif...*AHEM!*...for charity ...of course

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//xiv6.bmp

Pretty please...*grovel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifgrovel*...i'll do the washing up for a week

VW-IceFire
03-18-2005, 07:52 PM
Nyme is working on or finished completing the cockpit of this plane. Should be good too.

The duo of the Tempest V and Spitfire XIV will be great.

jagdmailer
03-18-2005, 09:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
PLEASE!...PPPPLLLLLEEEEEAAAASSSEEE!...we need the Spitfire MkXIV...if we get the XIV, i'll shave my testicles...live on the internet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif...*AHEM!*...for charity ...of course

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//xiv6.bmp

Pretty please...*grovel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifgrovel*...i'll do the washing up for a week <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, that thing is an ugly son of a gun.....Looks fast though with that 5 bladed prop.

Jagd

VW-IceFire
03-18-2005, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
PLEASE!...PPPPLLLLLEEEEEAAAASSSEEE!...we need the Spitfire MkXIV...if we get the XIV, i'll shave my testicles...live on the internet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif...*AHEM!*...for charity ...of course

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//xiv6.bmp

Pretty please...*grovel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifgrovel*...i'll do the washing up for a week <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, that thing is an ugly son of a gun.....Looks fast though with that 5 bladed prop.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really? I think its the best looking of all the Spitfire marks. The five blades is to absorb the power of the Griffon engine...which should be killer on torque...especially for ground handling.

p1ngu666
03-19-2005, 06:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
PLEASE!...PPPPLLLLLEEEEEAAAASSSEEE!...we need the Spitfire MkXIV...if we get the XIV, i'll shave my testicles...live on the internet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif...*AHEM!*...for charity ...of course

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//xiv6.bmp

Pretty please...*grovel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifgrovel*...i'll do the washing up for a week <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, that thing is an ugly son of a gun.....Looks fast though with that 5 bladed prop.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i like the smoother chin profile, but in not too keen on the power bulges.

mark8 is my favourite merlin spit, looks sleek and just right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

tempest looks like its bulit to destroy stuff, typhoon too, but only moreso http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

jadg, check GD forum, 2 vids ive uploaded, 1 of mossie, and 1 of typhoon and tempest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hammster
03-19-2005, 07:14 PM
Not sure if you guys saw these:

Tempest renders in screenshotspost (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=35010114&p=178)

About 1/3 the way down the page.

VW-IceFire
03-19-2005, 08:13 PM
Didn't see those....excellent!! I can't wait...I can't wait....I can't....you know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

goshikisen
03-19-2005, 08:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hammster:
Not sure if you guys saw these:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=35010114&p=178

About 1/3 the way down the page. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing like a couple new Hammerd skins to renew interest in IL2.

Monty_Thrud
03-20-2005, 06:11 AM
jagdmailer
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Man, that thing is an ugly son of a gun.....Looks fast though with that 5 bladed prop.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifAnyone who likes German planes is renowned to be of dubious character and bad taste http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif the Spitfire is sheer poetry in motion, in other words.. i love her long time GI, especially the bulges up front http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

p1ngu666
03-20-2005, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hammster:
Not sure if you guys saw these:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=35010114&p=178

About 1/3 the way down the page. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

goshikisen
03-20-2005, 07:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Didn't see those....excellent!! I can't wait...I can't wait....I can't....you know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice Clostermann Mk. V in your sig IceFire. I get the impression that you're a Tempest fan. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
03-20-2005, 09:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Didn't see those....excellent!! I can't wait...I can't wait....I can't....you know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice Clostermann Mk. V in your sig IceFire. I get the impression that you're a Tempest fan. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No really? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif My avatar title, graciously added by the admins doesn't give it away at all. I decided I'd make a new sig using Hammerds renders.

I'll have to come back because my current drool bucket is full and I need to get a new one *drools*

SO looking forward to flying this plane.

ImpStarDuece
03-20-2005, 09:34 PM
IceFire, do you have the latest version of Hardballs Aircraft Viewer? Because if you don't there is a nice little suprise for you in it.

Here is a hint; go to the 'H's first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
03-20-2005, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
IceFire, do you have the latest version of Hardballs Aircraft Viewer? Because if you don't there is a nice little suprise for you in it.

Here is a hint; go to the 'H's first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, but I'm downloading now ;D

Badsight.
03-20-2005, 11:03 PM
whats the big deal

another "unneeded"

i bet no one uses it ever

so on that basis we can all agree to email oleg requesting he just forget about it

i did my part how about you ?

its not like its a Shinden or anything cool like that

mmmmmmm Shinden **drifts off day-dreaming** . . . .

anyways , it British & you know what they are like , if something needs to be bolted to someting else , you can guarantee they will block access with a firewall or make you drop the whole feckin engine out

not that ive ever had to work on Jags or anything **goestokickanotherholeinthewall& screamabitmorerememberingworkingonmydadscars**

& thats just what they make , i mean have you ever been to england ? no & you dont want . nobody does

so lets just fergedaboudit

(dont forget to email oleg tho)

goshikisen
03-20-2005, 11:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
SO looking forward to flying this plane. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IceFire... have you ever read "My Part of the Sky" by Roland Beaumont? Great Read.

WOLFMondo
03-21-2005, 06:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
whats the big deal
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

11,000lbs of fine British craftmanship!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
another "unneeded"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I need it! You need it, you just haven't realised it yet:P

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
i bet no one uses it ever
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*raises hand*
I will!

And the Tempest is way cooler than that Japanese oddball plane.:P

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 08:11 AM
Badsight hasn't caught the affliction yet. Soon he will see the ways of the Tempest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

goshikisen, no I have not read that. Pierre Closterman yes, but not R. Beaumont yet. I should track it down.

I had a look at Hardballs aircraft viewer. Its great to see it on the list finally. I worry a bit about the numbers stated there (sea level top speed is much too low) but as I have said before, till we actually see it in game I imagine its a moot point. My one worry at the moment is the cannon loadout...they list 150rpg in there (not sure if thats from Hardball's data or from the game data) which is correct if we were talking about after May 1945. Wartime loadout for a Mark V was 200rpg according to several sources. After the war it was 150rpg inner and 160rpg outer. But if its 150 rpg...I guess we'll have to accept it...regardless of correctness or not. At least its not 60 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG53Frankyboy
03-21-2005, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Badsight hasn't caught the affliction yet. Soon he will see the ways of the Tempest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

goshikisen, no I have not read that. Pierre Closterman yes, but not R. Beaumont yet. I should track it down.

I had a look at Hardballs aircraft viewer. Its great to see it on the list finally. I worry a bit about the numbers stated there (sea level top speed is much too low) but as I have said before, till we actually see it in game I imagine its a moot point. My one worry at the moment is the cannon loadout...they list 150rpg in there (not sure if thats from Hardball's data or from the game data) which is correct if we were talking about after May 1945. Wartime loadout for a Mark V was 200rpg according to several sources. After the war it was 150rpg inner and 160rpg outer. But if its 150 rpg...I guess we'll have to accept it...regardless of correctness or not. At least its not 60 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you know correct ammoloadouts from the beginning is not a strong point of the maddox team http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
so, i would say send them an email with your informations about the Tempest ammo.

WOLFMondo
03-21-2005, 09:15 AM
Makes you wonder where they get there data from since some is fairly common and easy to get hold of. Maybe Oleg has some super secret Russian data on the Tempest...lets hope its not similar to the P47 data Oleg used oncehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Im slightly concerned we might get a series I FM but the model is of a series II which is the one that saw all the combat.

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Makes you wonder where they get there data from since some is fairly common and easy to get hold of. Maybe Oleg has some super secret Russian data on the Tempest...lets hope its not similar to the P47 data Oleg used oncehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Im slightly concerned we might get a series I FM but the model is of a series II which is the one that saw all the combat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That would be dorky but entirely possible I imagine. I unfortunately only have the performance specs of the Series I prototype. Does anyone have Series II with a Sabre IIB engine? Hopefully they are also aware of the Mark V hispano cannons.

I'll dig up sources on the ammo loads. Once again, if people have them, send them my way. Ultimately, I love getting my hands on whatever information there is no matter which warbird. I think its fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In any case, the top speed is enourmously low for even a Series I with a Sabre IIA. Maybe secret Russian data http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BigKahuna_GS
03-21-2005, 10:08 AM
S!

The Spit 14 and Tempest are great late war aircraft. Because of the copyright problems it looks like the P47M, P47N and F4U-4 will probably never make it in this sim. What a huge loss for US aircraft. These planes were extrodinarily fast and the F4U-4 had it all speed, maneuverability, climb rate and huge payload.

The Allies defenitly need a fast, hard hitting mud mover and the Tempest will do an excellent job at that.

It was one of my favorite planes in EAW.


_____

WOLFMondo
03-21-2005, 10:12 AM
The Hardball viewer shows the top speed as a 80kph to slow at sea level but then its not the final version.

I wonder if the RAF museum at Hendon has the relevent performance data on the series II? What confused me about Tempest V series II performance was when I read the Big Show, Pierre Closterman refers to his second JFE 'Le Grande Charles' as a newer type series II with a newer engine and propeller but his old JFE was a series II, not a series I.

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
The Hardball viewer shows the top speed as a 80kph to slow at sea level but then its not the final version.

I wonder if the RAF museum at Hendon has the relevent performance data on the series II? What confused me about Tempest V series II performance was when I read the Big Show, Pierre Closterman refers to his second JFE 'Le Grande Charles' as a newer type series II with a newer engine and propeller but his old JFE was a series II, not a series I. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
'Le Grande Charles' I think was amongst the smaller number of Series II aircraft that came with the Sabre IIC engine with the highest possible boost settings.

If I were Oleg and a Tempest fanatic like I am I would model two types:
1) Tempest Mark V Series II with Sabre IIB engine (call it Tempest Mark V 1944)
2) Tempest Mark V Series II Late with Sabre IIC engine (call it Tempest Mark V 1945)

There would be no need for a different external model as far as I know, the differences were minor and engine power related. The external model that Alex Voicu made for us is undoubtedly a Series II aircraft. What would be historically inaccurate and disappointing is if they model it according to the Series I aircraft...which as far as I know, only flew anti-V1 missions. These are the ones with the buldges on the wing leading edges for the longer barreled Hispano Mark II. There were 100 of these built. There were 700-800 of the Series II built...all with Hispano Mark V and the vast majority using the Sabre IIB (although as has been pointed out, the last few were with Saber IICs).

Spring tab ailerons (another component of Tempest performance) was a different matter. I hunted for data on these. Turns out (from what I could find), no serial production Tempest that ever had spring tab ailerons. These boosted roll rate by 10dps along the entire range of speeds. From 85dps maximum at 350mph to 95dps maximum at 350mph. So I hope Oleg doesn't model spring tab ailerons because that would also be incorrect.

My wish is for a historically accurate Series II, with the right engine, right guns, right aileron types, and proper top speeds. Nothing more and nothing less.

WOLFMondo
03-21-2005, 11:07 AM
I always though the spring tab ailerons were standard fittings?

p1ngu666
03-21-2005, 11:30 AM
i thoughtso too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

there isnt much tempest and typhoon info out there, compaired to the spit for example, ill look up ammo loads http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 11:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I always though the spring tab ailerons were standard fittings? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Apparently not...I couldn't find a single picture of Tempests with spring tab ailerons.

You can visually tell them apart according to Alex Voicu. Find me pictures of the ailerons on Tempests and I'll identify them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
03-21-2005, 11:33 AM
yep V and VI series had 200rpg, mk2 had162 and 156 outboard

WOLFMondo
03-21-2005, 03:10 PM
You'll have to let me know the difference..my new Tempest DVD should be here tomorrow.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 04:24 PM
I'll try and describe it.

(odd image, in Russian!)
http://mkmagazin.almanacwhf.ru/avia/hawker_tempest_3.gif

The aileron, if its spring tabbed, has an extra panel about halfway along the aileron. Right in the middle really. On this one, the slot is right at the inner edge of the aileron. Thats pretty much it.

If Alex pops by, I think it was he who sent me the comparison image. I can't seem to find that right now.

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 04:27 PM
On the guns issue...this is by far the best resource:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Hawker Tempest Mk.V. This one is armed with Hispano Mk.V cannon. Early Tempests had Mk.II cannon, and the longer barrels extended in front of the wing leading edge. [63]

* Four Hispano Mk.V cannon, installed within the wing, with 200 rounds per gun. That was ammunition for 16 seconds.
* Per second 50 rounds were fired, with a total weight of 6.5 kg. Total muzzle energy was 2292 kW.
* This was the definitive armament option for British WWII fighters, although a number of designs and prototypes featured six Hispano cannon. It was also retained by the first generation of jet fighters, becoming a de facto standard in the first year after the war. The exceptions were the USAAF, that continued to rely on the .50, and the USSR, that prefered 23mm and 37mm cannon.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-fi.html

Also...on the two variants of the Tempest:
[empest F.Mk V Series 1 This subversion was armed with 4 Ӕ 20 mm Hispano Mk II cannons with slightly protruding barrels.
Number built: 100
Tempest F.Mk V Series 2 This subversion was armed with 4 Ӕ 20 mm Hispano Mk V cannons with shorter barrels, a detachable rear fuselage, smaller main wheels, and other small changes. Early aircraft were powered by 1 Ӕ Napier Sabre IIB, rated at 2,200 hp (1.640 kW), the rest was powered by 1 Ӕ Napier Sabre IIC, rated at 2,260 hp (1.685 kW)
Number built: 705[/quote]
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/hawktempest.html

Although this site also incorrectly states the post war Mark II armament of 150rpg. Its hard to find good info unfortunately.

WOLFMondo
03-21-2005, 06:08 PM
Did the IIB ones use the 9lbs or the 11lbs boost? Did the IIC ones use the 13lbs boost?

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 07:53 PM
Not sure...trying to find information. Unlike the Spitfire and the USAAF birds...there is little information to go on with the Tempest.

Here's the best details I can find.

Boscombe Down A&AEE tests:
http://home.epix.net/~cap14/tp.html

This is unfortunately the third production aircraft, with Mark II cannons (thus with drag creating cannon barrel covers on the wings) and a Sabre IIA. It hardly represents a typical frontline Tempest. Is there a RAF public records archive or the sort that has more information than this?

balrog09
03-21-2005, 09:30 PM
After going through these forums the question still remains is the Tempest going to make it.
This Brute of an aircraft should be in this great game.I have seen the Typhoon and cockpit made up for this sim but never made it in,i have seen some brilliant work on the skins and some battle damaged Tempest shots (Great work from Alex and Hammerd) and only 1 cockpit shot.
This aircraft is the one i'm waiting for, the big beast of the skies over Europe...

Just like to thank everyone who has put up some great info on the Tempest.

http://www.jg11.com/start.htm

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 09:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by balrog09:
After going through these forums the question still remains is the Tempest going to make it.
This Brute of an aircraft should be in this great game.I have seen the Typhoon and cockpit made up for this sim but never made it in,i have seen some brilliant work on the skins and some battle damaged Tempest shots (Great work from Alex and Hammerd) and only 1 cockpit shot.
This aircraft is the one i'm waiting for, the big beast of the skies over Europe...

Just like to thank everyone who has put up some great info on the Tempest.

http://www.jg11.com/start.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've seen alot of cockpit shots actually. They just haven't been posted on the UBI forums.

The Typhoon is another story. There never was a cockpit for it. And the external model was made by a guy who we later found out did not get his models accepted by Oleg. I think there was some gross miscommunications but the end result was that the Typhoon project died. The model did not work with the game technology.

Alex Voicu's model on the other hand has been in development because he's worked to make sure that its going to work with the game engine at top quality. Few of the third party projects have achieved that....very few. Anyways, I'm still crossing my fingers on that point but I'm hopeful that we'l see it.

I just hope they don't flub the implementation...flyable or not...it should be historic.

Badsight.
03-21-2005, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I always though the spring tab ailerons were standard fittings? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>your after a Hawker FURY

just plain outright Nassty

http://www.naval-museum.mb.ca/navalair/hawker_sea_fury.jpg

but thats besides it being another peice of english engineering , sure it goes good , but have you ever tried to work on someting british ?

Badsight.
03-21-2005, 10:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
And the Tempest is way cooler than that Japanese oddball plane.:P <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>you is lucky we dont have it , Tempest Schmempest no 427 Mph Sea Level would save you from it

its common knowledge that 9 out of 10 english mechanics go barmy within 5 years from frustration

VW-IceFire
03-21-2005, 10:46 PM
Yep, you can see the spring tabs on those planes. It'd be great to have a Korean war sim with those! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Badsight.
03-21-2005, 11:13 PM
http://img204.exs.cx/img204/4915/mig15seafury8gq.jpg

WOLFMondo
03-22-2005, 02:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Is there a RAF public records archive or the sort that has more information than this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The information will either be at one of the Imperial War Museum sites or RAF Hendon where lots of this sort of information is kept. Not sure if it is publically available or can be viewed on appointment.

Theres always BAe who own the Hawker name.

WOLFMondo
03-22-2005, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:

but thats besides it being another peice of english engineering , sure it goes good , but have you ever tried to work on someting british ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is one confused statement. The English are British.:P

DIRTY-MAC
03-22-2005, 07:53 AM
I think Oleg has RAF papers that indicates
the usage of 13 lb boost in the Tempest
I know someone sent him this but that was
maybe two years ago

What is the Tempest performance in HardBalls aircraft weiwer, and what is incorrect,
By the way didn´t Clostermann talk about an ammo-load of 250 rounds?

WOLFMondo
03-22-2005, 08:02 AM
No, Closterman is quite specific about the Mk V Hispano's in the Tempest V having 800 shells between them, 200 rounds per gun.

The info in the viewer shows the Tempests top speeds at different heights as allot lower in some cases.

VW-IceFire
03-22-2005, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
I think Oleg has RAF papers that indicates
the usage of 13 lb boost in the Tempest
I know someone sent him this but that was
maybe two years ago

What is the Tempest performance in HardBalls aircraft weiwer, and what is incorrect,
By the way didn´t Clostermann talk about an ammo-load of 250 rounds? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well there's three points of Hardballs viewer that appear to be incorrect (I'm also open to be proven wrong but I don't think I am).

Just to reiterate:
1) Engine HP is listed at 2180 which means its a Sabre IIA. But the Sabre IIA was used only in the first 100 aircraft known as Series 1. The aircraft 3D model is a Series 2 which should have either the Sabre IIB or Sabre IIC engine. The HP ratings of those second two go upto 2400hp.

2) Maximum top speed at sea level is listed at 537kph. Thats 333mph. The chart I have is for a Sabre IIA equipped aircraft (which BTW apparently never reached 9lbs of boost) and the maximum sea level speed is 376mph. So, for the slowest, lowest boosted Tempest there is...this number is 50mph lower.

3) Armament section lists the aircraft as having 4 20mm cannons with 150rpg each. This is true of the Mark II Tempest...as Pingu has pointed out and as backed up by dairys of Pierre Closterman and Roland Beaumont, the wartime Tempest V's used 200rpg. Also, hopefully they know that Series II Tempests, the one modeled, use short barrel Hispano Mark V cannons and not long barrel Mark II cannons. The Mark V trades some of the kinetic power in muzzle velocity with a higher fire rate. Arguably, the Mark V Hispano is the most powerful 20mm cannon of World War II. While the MG151/20 and the Mark II should be in striking distance of each other, the Mark V is a cut above and was installed on 700 of 800 Tempest Vs (as well as some Seafire IIIs and most or all Meteor jet fighters).

WOLFMondo
03-22-2005, 10:32 AM
Should be said though the Series I was still bloody fast under 20,000ft. 411mph at 6500ft and 438mph at 17,500ft is no small feat.

BlackStar2000
03-22-2005, 11:13 AM
Justice Must be made, Tempest MUST get in game flyable

DIRTY-MAC
03-22-2005, 12:53 PM
Isn´t the emergency HP of the Sabre IIB and Sabre IIC was around or over 3000hp?
I have a book about the sabre engines
I will look it up

Nubarus
03-22-2005, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
I think Oleg has RAF papers that indicates
the usage of 13 lb boost in the Tempest
I know someone sent him this but that was
maybe two years ago

What is the Tempest performance in HardBalls aircraft weiwer, and what is incorrect,
By the way didn´t Clostermann talk about an ammo-load of 250 rounds? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well there's three points of Hardballs viewer that appear to be incorrect (I'm also open to be proven wrong but I don't think I am).

Just to reiterate:
1) Engine HP is listed at 2180 which means its a Sabre IIA. But the Sabre IIA was used only in the first 100 aircraft known as Series 1. The aircraft 3D model is a Series 2 which should have either the Sabre IIB or Sabre IIC engine. The HP ratings of those second two go upto 2400hp.

2) Maximum top speed at sea level is listed at 537kph. Thats 333mph. The chart I have is for a Sabre IIA equipped aircraft (which BTW apparently never reached 9lbs of boost) and the maximum sea level speed is 376mph. So, for the slowest, lowest boosted Tempest there is...this number is 50mph lower.

3) Armament section lists the aircraft as having 4 20mm cannons with 150rpg each. This is true of the Mark II Tempest...as Pingu has pointed out and as backed up by dairys of Pierre Closterman and Roland Beaumont, the wartime Tempest V's used 200rpg. Also, hopefully they know that Series II Tempests, the one modeled, use short barrel Hispano Mark V cannons and not long barrel Mark II cannons. The Mark V trades some of the kinetic power in muzzle velocity with a higher fire rate. Arguably, the Mark V Hispano is the most powerful 20mm cannon of World War II. While the MG151/20 and the Mark II should be in striking distance of each other, the Mark V is a cut above and was installed on 700 of 800 Tempest Vs (as well as some Seafire IIIs and most or all Meteor jet fighters). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eh IceFire,

Did you send this info to Oleg yet?

It would be so much better if it get's made right the first time around instead of having to wait for another patch.

VW-IceFire
03-22-2005, 07:22 PM
See my trouble is that I want to substantiate it as much as possible. I have all sorts of information, and lots of stuff that I've assimilated into my brain. But a good amount of it is from web sources.

I'm still a student for another 2 months and my university training is getting the better of me. I want to have solid, reputable, and reliable sources to be totally sure that when I present Oleg with a case, I can really hammer the point home. I tried and somewhat succeeded with the RAF markings issues...although nothing really happened in the end (although the Corsair Mark I through IV and the Tempest looks to have it painted on with the proper colors!).

I guess I can give it a try. The other thing is that, although I'm already contradicting myself and having a bit of a hyperventilation here (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif), I don't want to be accused of unncessarily stiring the pot or complaining because my favorite fighter isn't uber.

Thats not what I want...the Tempest is uber on its own. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I just want to see it represented in its most common form.

Perhaps I'll toss an e-mail over.

Badsight.
03-22-2005, 10:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
That is one confused statement. The English are British.:P <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>eh ? no kidding

besides that , have you ?

can you say "hair pulling" ? or "teeth gnashing" ?

jeanba2
03-23-2005, 02:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

Well there's three points of Hardballs viewer that appear to be incorrect (I'm also open to be proven wrong but I don't think I am).

Just to reiterate:
1) Engine HP is listed at 2180 which means its a Sabre IIA. But the Sabre IIA was used only in the first 100 aircraft known as Series 1. The aircraft 3D model is a Series 2 which should have either the Sabre IIB or Sabre IIC engine. The HP ratings of those second two go upto 2400hp.

2) Maximum top speed at sea level is listed at 537kph. Thats 333mph. The chart I have is for a Sabre IIA equipped aircraft (which BTW apparently never reached 9lbs of boost) and the maximum sea level speed is 376mph. So, for the slowest, lowest boosted Tempest there is...this number is 50mph lower.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just one question out of curiosity : how this version compares to late Typhoon version ?
At low altitude, they seem to be very close to each others ?

WOLFMondo
03-23-2005, 03:46 AM
The Typhoons and Tempests used the same engines but the Tempests aerodynamics were in a different league to the Typhoons. I guess there was less drag so it got to its top speeds quicker, could maintain the speed more through manouvers and regain it quicker, it probably gained speed in a dive allot quicker and its zoom climb was probably superior (two things it was noted for).

I get the impression while the Typhoon and Tempest were not the easiest of planes to fly (Tempest pilots were required to have a tour on Typhoons or Spitfires first) that the Typhoon wasn't a particularly nice plane to fly because of its weight, technical problems and heavy handling whereas the Tempest was a nicer plane to fly as it was allot more responsive and manouverable, especially in a roll but given most of the pilot who flew them and survived (I don't know the exact loss rates but loosing Tempests to flak was very common) were already veteran fighter pilots its hard to say.

VW-IceFire
03-23-2005, 08:29 AM
I'll have to check on the Typhoons sea level speeds but the value is too low for a Typhoon as well.

The Tempest and Typhoon had similar low altitude performance...but the Tempests superior aerodynamics (particularly the laminar flow wings) gave it a far superior altitude advantage that the Typhoon didn't have. Also, the Tempets is regarded as having the best or second best dive speed of any WWII fighter. Apparently its better than the Mustang which is apparently better than the Thunderbolt. Although the Tempest and Thunderbolt have a big advantage over the Mustang in that they are tougher aircraft structurally.

WOLFMondo is also right. Tempest pilots were supposed to have one tour under their belts before flying with Tempest squadrons. Losses due to flak were higher than losses to anything else. Particularly chilling for me was the mention in Pierre Clostermans book where he or another noticed a thin streak of oil coming from a fellow Tempests radiator. This was caused by some hits from flak...suddenly the aircraft exploded and disintegrated. No warning.

Not a particularly forgiving aircraft in a stall either. I.e. the Tempest that got into a turn fight with a Ta-152H at low level and stalled into the ground trying to catch him in a turn.

I'm looking forward to mastering all of these things http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jeanba2
03-23-2005, 09:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I'll have to check on the Typhoons sea level speeds but the value is too low for a Typhoon as well.

I'm looking forward to mastering all of these things http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you, it is very interesting, the more, the better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DIRTY-MAC
03-23-2005, 09:18 AM
IceFire
What does Clostermann say about
the Performance of the Tempest in
"the Big Show"?
I dont have my book here,

hare is a quote from the Book when he is using the emergency power:


Engine temperature 125?, oil pressure down to the fifty five. Regretfully I opened the radiator and closed the throttle to 3500 revs. Even then I went on gaining on the Focke-Wulf, who was probably making for home, his magazines empty. We were now over Bremen, and he was still a thousand yards ahead. This businness might take me rather far; I closed the radiator again and opened the throttle flet out. My "Grand Charles" responded at once. We were now over the first docks of the Weser. We roared between the shattered remains of the big transporter bridge. On either side rose the charred hulks of the ware-houses; the few cranes and derricks still erect rose uo like black skelettons. Suddenly a salvo of Flak shelles blossomed beetween theFocke-Wulf and me - brief white flashes, mingled with brown balls which passed by either side of me. More kept appearing miracously out of the void. The automatic flak now chimed in and the orange glow of the tracers was reflected in the black oily water, from wich overturned hulk emerged, like enormous stranded whales. I concentrated on not losing sight of my Focke-Wulf - lukely he was silhouetted against the dying glow of the sky. For a moment the Flak redoubled in intensity. There was a sudden Clang behind my back - then suddenly the tracers were snuffed out and diseappeared... A bit suspicious ! A glance behind me explained this curious phenomenon : on my tail six Focke-Wulfs in perfect close echelon formation - exhaust white hot -pursuing me at full throttle. With one movement I broke the metal thread to enable me to go to "emergency" and shoved the throttle lever right forward. It was the first time I had occasion to use it on Tempest. The effect was extraordinaire and immediate. The aircraft litteraly bounded forward with a roar like a furnace under pressure. Within a few seconds I was doing 490 m.p.h by the air speed indicator and I simultaneously caught up my quarry and left my pursuers standing. I had soon reduced the distance to less than 200 yards. Although in this darkness my gun sight rather dazzled me, I had him plumb in the middle and I fired two long, deliberate bursts. The Focke-Wulf oscillated and crashed on its belly in a marshy field, thowing up a shower of mud. He miracously did not overturn. Whithout losing anytime I climbed vertically toward the clouds and righted myself to face the others. They had vanished in the shadows. They must have turned about and left their comrade to this fate. I flew back over the Focke-Wulf I shot down. The pilot was limpimg off, dragging his parachutte an dquite dazed by the shock. I besparred the remains of his machine with shells and they caught fire at once.
That made two !

Extract of "flames in the dusk"

stathem
03-23-2005, 02:37 PM
Wow.

Thanks for that, I really must look that book up quite soon.

VW-IceFire
03-23-2005, 05:33 PM
Best WWII diary book that I've read so far. Closterman doesn't beat around the bush...lots of people never come back, he has a whole bunch of very close scrapes, and so on.

As I can remember, he flies the Spitfire IX (an LF model just like in game), a Spitfire LF V with clipped wings, a Spitfire VI high alititude, once in a Typhoon for a test flight, and then a bunch in a Tempest V. Both of his Tempests were Series II models...one was probably with a Sabre IIB engine and the other with a Sabre IIC engine ("Le Grande Charles")

Bull_dog_
03-23-2005, 06:47 PM
So back to the original question...there is no doubt in my mind the Tempest is in the patch...the only question is...will it be flyable?

jagdmailer
03-23-2005, 07:41 PM
Probably not flyable...but that is more than OK with me - I just need them as targets for my LW BoE dynamic fighter campaigns.

Jagd

VW-IceFire
03-23-2005, 08:15 PM
Why do you say that?

Reading Alex Voicu's last post here...cockpit was on its way. The last screen captures shows a fully finished cockpit that was being worked over in finishing detail.

If we don't get it flyable now...I highly doubt it'll ever be. That'd be a shame.

p1ngu666
03-23-2005, 08:22 PM
takes time to put them ingame, the cockpit in this case as the external is already in from what ive seen.

they might turn out tobe rather scary targets too jagd http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

i also think u should try out some of the non lw planes in the game, your really missing some sweet planes, ki43 for example http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

goshikisen
03-23-2005, 08:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
If we don't get it flyable now...I highly doubt it'll ever be. That'd be a shame. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This aircraft has been in development too long (it was first seen in a Dev. Update in Nov. 2003) for it not to make Flyable. As you say... it'd be a shame if the cockpit didn't see the light of day.

jagdmailer
03-23-2005, 11:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Why do you say that?

Reading Alex Voicu's last post here...cockpit was on its way. The last screen captures shows a fully finished cockpit that was being worked over in finishing detail.

If we don't get it flyable now...I highly doubt it'll ever be. That'd be a shame. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only said that because the prior posted asked if it will be flyable in next patch and from what some people in the know said, it will be only AI. Flyable or not flyable does not make any difference with me as I only need it as AI target. The more targets, the merrier. Too bad we won't get some A-20Cs, A-20Ks and B-26s.

Out of the allied stuff, I only flew breifly the P-40E & P-51D for the kick of it, and perhaps P-47D & A-20 once. I have not tried most of the Russian paper birds either.

For some reason, I personally find unethical to fly any other than Axis. I fly mostly German, Hungarian and sometime Finland. Cannot wait for the Italian birds. It's just me but that is the way it is.

Cheers,

Jagd

WOLFMondo
03-24-2005, 02:20 AM
Unethical? Odd choice of words.

VW-IceFire
03-24-2005, 06:30 AM
See I'm rooting for every plane to be flyable and I indeed do fly every plane. I want them to be more than just targets.

People in the know? You mean the plane list released by Oleg about a month ago? Things change quickly...we'll see.

Aaron_GT
03-24-2005, 07:26 AM
Typically the Tempest V is quoted as 392mph at sea level, 442 at about 20,000 ft (from memory), for series II, with AFAIK, +9 boost. The sea level speed didn't increase very much with +11 boost (405 or thereabouts). The P51 got a better improvement with increased boosts (anything up to 405 at SL for a P51C at +25 boost) but was slower than the Tempest V at lower 'standard' boosts (depends what you mean by standard, of course).

Aaron_GT
03-24-2005, 07:28 AM
"I get the impression while the Typhoon and Tempest were not the easiest of planes to fly"

The Tempest was reputedly easier than the Typhoon (improved visibilty for one thing). I think the restriction was as much that the Typhoon and Tempest required BnZ tactics and often operated on low level strike missions into heavy flak and that required skilled pilots and ones that had proved that they could remain resolute in the face of such AAA.

MEGILE
03-24-2005, 07:45 AM
Unethical? Hmm English must not be your first language, because surely no virtual pilot could truly believe it to be unethical to fly other planes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

WOLFMondo
03-24-2005, 08:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
"I get the impression while the Typhoon and Tempest were not the easiest of planes to fly"

The Tempest was reputedly easier than the Typhoon (improved visibilty for one thing). I think the restriction was as much that the Typhoon and Tempest required BnZ tactics and often operated on low level strike missions into heavy flak and that required skilled pilots and ones that had proved that they could remain resolute in the face of such AAA. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the stories and pilot accounts I've read of Tempest and Typhoon pilots, skill was important but a large dose of luck was handy too.

I certainly wouldn't of wanted to be a Tempest pilot considering the task they were given, the locations they flew in and the height they flew at.

jagdmailer
03-24-2005, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megile:
Unethical? Hmm English must not be your first language, because surely no virtual pilot could truly believe it to be unethical to fly other planes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is indeed the way it is. To each is own I guess.

Anyhow, this thread is about Tempest and I will be glad to see it wether it is AI or flyable in the end. That is all I care about.

Jagd

p1ngu666
03-24-2005, 08:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Why do you say that?

Reading Alex Voicu's last post here...cockpit was on its way. The last screen captures shows a fully finished cockpit that was being worked over in finishing detail.

If we don't get it flyable now...I highly doubt it'll ever be. That'd be a shame. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only said that because the prior posted asked if it will be flyable in next patch and from what some people in the know said, it will be only AI. Flyable or not flyable does not make any difference with me as I only need it as AI target. The more targets, the merrier. Too bad we won't get some A-20Cs, A-20Ks and B-26s.

Out of the allied stuff, I only flew breifly the P-40E & P-51D for the kick of it, and perhaps P-47D & A-20 once. I have not tried most of the Russian paper birds either.

For some reason, I personally find unethical to fly any other than Axis. I fly mostly German, Hungarian and sometime Finland. Cannot wait for the Italian birds. It's just me but that is the way it is.

Cheers,

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gifki43 is axis plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

cmon everyone, lets get jadg to fly a ki43 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
ki43 is a real http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif plane, be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

lrrp22
03-24-2005, 09:21 AM
?? Care to elaborate?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:

That is indeed the way it is. To each is own I guess.


Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HayateAce
03-24-2005, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:

For some reason, I personally find unethical to fly any other than Axis. I fly mostly German, Hungarian and sometime Finland. Cannot wait for the Italian birds. It's just me but that is the way it is.

Cheers,

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, what a statement.

You want this to go easy, or hard?

Let's begin with the source of labor that may have stood at a bench building your beloved db605. Maybe that poor soul wasn't there by his/or own will?

k5054
03-24-2005, 04:37 PM
Tempest stats....during WW2, 124 lost due to accident, 87 to flak, 25 to enemy a/c (23 of then to 109s and 190s, 2 other) and 5 missing. Claims were around 240.

586 (approx) typhoons were lost to flak, 82 to a/c and 84 missing against 246 claims. The 720 accidents include 4 lost to US a/c.

DarthBane_
03-24-2005, 06:13 PM
Indeed it will be a nice chew for 262. With mosquito as foremeal. Nice if it commes in patch (flyable), but not nerely nice as if we get DO335 flyable.

p1ngu666
03-24-2005, 08:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k5054:
Tempest stats....during WW2, 124 lost due to accident, 87 to flak, 25 to enemy a/c (23 of then to 109s and 190s, 2 other) and 5 missing. Claims were around 240.

586 (approx) typhoons were lost to flak, 82 to a/c and 84 missing against 246 claims. The 720 accidents include 4 lost to US a/c. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

interesting, flak way more dangous than the luftwaffe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

i guess the flak at end of the war extremely heavy, with it all condensed in germany, and i bet it was what the troops took when u was reatreating

Badsight.
03-25-2005, 04:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Indeed it will be a nice chew for 262. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i just bet the Tempest , if it has its proper Hp & Speed , will waste 262s

WOLFMondo
03-25-2005, 05:57 AM
That comes down to the pilot but the Tempest V is the best tool for the job.

jagdmailer
03-25-2005, 10:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Indeed it will be a nice chew for 262. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i just bet the Tempest , if it has its proper Hp & Speed , will waste 262s <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just need it as target.

Jagd

p1ngu666
03-25-2005, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Indeed it will be a nice chew for 262. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i just bet the Tempest , if it has its proper Hp & Speed , will waste 262s <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just need it as target.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if u saw one irl, ud want to fly it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

lrrp22
03-25-2005, 12:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Indeed it will be a nice chew for 262. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i just bet the Tempest , if it has its proper Hp & Speed , will waste 262s <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just need it as target.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if u saw one irl, ud want to fly it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that would be unethical! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p1ngu666
03-25-2005, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Indeed it will be a nice chew for 262. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i just bet the Tempest , if it has its proper Hp & Speed , will waste 262s <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just need it as target.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if u saw one irl, ud want to fly it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that would be unethical! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

true, tempest is 2nd only to typhoon, in badassness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

jagdmailer
03-25-2005, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lrrp22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DarthBane_:
Indeed it will be a nice chew for 262. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i just bet the Tempest , if it has its proper Hp & Speed , will waste 262s <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just need it as target.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if u saw one irl, ud want to fly it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that would be unethical! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

true, tempest is 2nd only to typhoon, in badassness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

targets.

Jagd

Badsight.
03-25-2005, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
That comes down to the pilot but the Tempest V is the best tool for the job. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>im guessing the roll rate & turn rates are going to be fairly close

only thing is the Tempest , if it has its proper Hp , should waste the Schwalb in 200 - 450 Kmh accelleration , oh so criticall if you is in trouble

i bet they are going to make for a good match at any rate

p1ngu666
03-25-2005, 03:38 PM
think tempest was excellent at high speeds, which is handy as it tended to inhabit the highspeed range http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Aaron_GT
03-25-2005, 05:43 PM
"think tempest was excellent at high speeds, which is handy as it tended to inhabit the highspeed range"

Roll rate at high speed was pretty much the same as the Mustang. turn a bit worse (but turning was going out of fashion) and with a much more powerful armament. The Mustang was cleared for more ordnance carrying, but it might have been that the RAF was being a bit conservative - after all the Tempest V was cleared for rockets but never carried them during WW2 even though the Typhoon used them extensively.

Badsight.
03-25-2005, 06:50 PM
the Schwalb is a High-Speed-Dream

dont think the advantage for the Tempest lies over 500 Kph , but under 500 Kph

lrrp22
03-25-2005, 08:28 PM
Badsight,

The 262's high speed *was* the dream. It seems its high-speed roll and turn would be poor- but at 540 mph in level flight, it didn't need to turn or roll very well!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
the Schwalb is a High-Speed-Dream

dont think the advantage for the Tempest lies over 500 Kph , but under 500 Kph <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

p1ngu666
03-26-2005, 03:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
"think tempest was excellent at high speeds, which is handy as it tended to inhabit the highspeed range"

Roll rate at high speed was pretty much the same as the Mustang. turn a bit worse (but turning was going out of fashion) and with a much more powerful armament. The Mustang was cleared for more ordnance carrying, but it might have been that the RAF was being a bit conservative - after all the Tempest V was cleared for rockets but never carried them during WW2 even though the Typhoon used them extensively. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thought they both took 2 1000lb bombs, or rockets?

badsight, u are probably right vs 262, but i think typhoon and tempest was always very fast at low alt http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Badsight.
03-26-2005, 04:18 AM
never said it wasnt , its a total scorcher at low alt , & up to 500 i think it will best the Schwalb

but in FB the 262 is a high speed dream machine (i aint referring to the simple fact that it goes fast here)

VW-IceFire
03-26-2005, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
"think tempest was excellent at high speeds, which is handy as it tended to inhabit the highspeed range"

Roll rate at high speed was pretty much the same as the Mustang. turn a bit worse (but turning was going out of fashion) and with a much more powerful armament. The Mustang was cleared for more ordnance carrying, but it might have been that the RAF was being a bit conservative - after all the Tempest V was cleared for rockets but never carried them during WW2 even though the Typhoon used them extensively. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How much more was the Mustang cleared for?

Typhoon was cleared for upto 2000lbs of bombs or 8 60lb rockets. Thats quite a bit. Same as the Typhoon.

Handling for the Tempest is probably similar to the Mustang. Highest roll rate at 350mph, best turn at a similar speed, average to good turn for short periods of time.

DIRTY-MAC
03-26-2005, 08:28 AM
Does anyone have the quotes on the Tempests performance by Clostermann when he talkes about its speed at different HP inputs?

Aaron_GT
03-26-2005, 08:40 AM
"thought they both took 2 1000lb bombs, or rockets?"

Cleared for rockets, but from everything I have read, rockets were never carried in WW2.

IceFire wrote:
"How much more was the Mustang cleared for?"

A greater variety of ordnance was carried - e.g. the rockets. Same maximum external load, though (2000lb) during WW2. They way I phrased it before was a bit ambiguous, sorry.

VW-IceFire
03-26-2005, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
"thought they both took 2 1000lb bombs, or rockets?"

Cleared for rockets, but from everything I have read, rockets were never carried in WW2.

IceFire wrote:
"How much more was the Mustang cleared for?"

A greater variety of ordnance was carried - e.g. the rockets. Same maximum external load, though (2000lb) during WW2. They way I phrased it before was a bit ambiguous, sorry. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, cleared but never used them. There was a shortage of rockets I think and the Typhoon squadrons had the priority seeing as they were the primary ground pounders. The Tempests were more capable fighters and were used in that role instead.

WOLFMondo
03-26-2005, 01:52 PM
Im not sure how much sense it would make to use the Tempest as a rocket or bomb platform when they had Beaufighters, Typhoons, Mosquito's, B25's, A20's etc that could all take rockets or bombs and there were thousands of Spitfire IX's that could be bombed up yet none of these could take on the Luftwaffe at low altitudes like the Tempest could.

VW-IceFire
03-26-2005, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Im not sure how much sense it would make to use the Tempest as a rocket or bomb platform when they had Beaufighters, Typhoons, Mosquito's, B25's, A20's etc that could all take rockets or bombs and there were thousands of Spitfire IX's that could be bombed up yet none of these could take on the Luftwaffe at low altitudes like the Tempest could. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the idea was that, once they ran out of Typhoons, the Tempests would take on the rocket roll. Of course the war ended quicker than that.

WOLFMondo
03-26-2005, 02:53 PM
Did Typhoon production finish up before the end of the war then? I thought they built them right the way up until VJ day then scrapped them after that in favour of the Tempest II's and Seafury development.

No doubt the Tempest could any thing the Typhoon could do and better but the production lines were already running, changing over machinery and retooling would take weeks.

Badsight.
03-26-2005, 03:09 PM
wether it was used for much rocket action is moot

were getting it

http://img76.exs.cx/img76/5683/tempest089tr.jpg

p1ngu666
03-26-2005, 03:49 PM
one of the things im worried about, is how itll sound, touching 4000rpm and all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

XIV doesnt have that problem, 2750rpm was max i think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

stathem
03-26-2005, 03:51 PM
4k? nice.

What Capacity was the Sabre?

p1ngu666
03-26-2005, 04:04 PM
36ishlitres i think

VW-IceFire
03-26-2005, 04:07 PM
Badsight...it'll make a good substitude Typhoon for the Normandy map.

p1ngu666
03-26-2005, 04:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Badsight...it'll make a good substitude Typhoon for the Normandy map. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think itll look most magestic, banking away with emputy rocket rails, over the quickly rising smoke of burning tanks and lorries http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

goshikisen
03-26-2005, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
wether it was used for much rocket action is moot

were getting it

http://img76.exs.cx/img76/5683/tempest089tr.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a beast of an aircraft... it leaves you wondering why there are so few of the Mk. V left today today. With 900 or so built you'd have thought someone would have had the forethought to put a few of them aside. Not as glamorous as a Spitfire I suppose... more of a workhorse.

Anybody seen the Tempest at Hendon? Too bad the only Mk. V left has a garish target towing scheme.

Regards, Goshikisen.

WOLFMondo
03-27-2005, 04:29 AM
I've seen that Mk V, shame its in those colours but it is in there milestones of flight collection along with the 262, Sopwith Camel, 109G and Mosquito etc. There was a guy who was rebuilding and restoring one to fly but said he needed 3 spare Sabres.

I think allot of them were scrapped in favour of the MkII's because the Sabre engines required allot of maintenance and care and Hawker always favoured the Centaurus over the Sabre anyway.

WOLFMondo
03-27-2005, 04:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
36ishlitres i think <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

36.65http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.enginehistory.org/Gallery/JimBuckel/Napier%20Sabre%20VII%2031.JPG

stathem
03-27-2005, 08:22 AM
Now thats an engine!

Must be quite a short stroke to rev so high.

Edit - ah, 24 cyl? small pots then.

p1ngu666
03-27-2005, 09:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stathem:
Now thats an engine!

Must be quite a short stroke to rev so high.

Edit - ah, 24 cyl? small pots then. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

think it was

and they scrapped tons of planes, like theres only 1 typhoon left, no hornet's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/madengine.jpg

came before sabre in tiffy and tempest
22litres i think, 4200 rpm, 24 cylinder H...

AIRCOOLED!!!!

miricle it worked at all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
03-27-2005, 12:33 PM
Man that sabre is huge!

Sir-Tiedeman
03-27-2005, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Man that sabre is huge! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



So is my jhonson http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

p1ngu666
03-27-2005, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Man that sabre is huge! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/pinguandnapire.jpg

me and the one ton monster http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sir-Tiedeman
03-27-2005, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Man that sabre is huge! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/pinguandnapire.jpg

me and the one ton monster http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Are you blind?
Or limp?


that is a cane, is it not?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


mant questions still unawnsered

p1ngu666
03-27-2005, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sir-Tiedeman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Man that sabre is huge! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/pinguandnapire.jpg

me and the one ton monster http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Are you blind?
Or limp?


that is a cane, is it not?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


mant questions still unawnsered <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

naw, its a monopod for camera, helps keep it still. alot of museums arent that well lit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
BOB hanger at hendon is dark, a romantic evening dark http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

DIRTY-MAC
03-27-2005, 07:28 PM
OK http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
I get no responce.
Nobody seems to take notice of my posts... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
well....anyway I hope to see the tempest
flyable in the game, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Thanks for me and I will not trouble you with any further posts. Bye http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

p1ngu666
03-27-2005, 09:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
OK http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
I get no responce.
Nobody seems to take notice of my posts... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
well....anyway I hope to see the tempest
flyable in the game, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Thanks for me and I will not trouble you with any further posts. Bye http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, we may just not of had that quote handy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
ive never read the big show http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

ppl still ignore me so dont worry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
03-27-2005, 10:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
OK http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
I get no responce.
Nobody seems to take notice of my posts... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
well....anyway I hope to see the tempest
flyable in the game, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Thanks for me and I will not trouble you with any further posts. Bye http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I thought you were being rhetorical...sorry. Take a bit much to type out the big long quote unfortunately.

WOLFMondo
03-30-2005, 03:40 AM
Got my Tempest DVD.

Something interesting from the point of view of what weapons they were cleared to carry...both the Typhoon and Tempest were cleared to use Napalm and theres video on the DVD of both of them in trails dropping napalm cannisters as well as rockets and bombs.

Something else pilots mentioned was the extremely sensitive ailerons and stiff but effective elevators.

No601_Zulu
03-30-2005, 05:55 AM
WOLF

Sounds like you have he same DVD as I. Did you buy the Typhoon and Tempest version.

All I will say it's a pity you cant grab a sound bite of that Sabra, really howls along.

IceFire...

Any more news re how the cockpit is going?

WOLFMondo
03-30-2005, 06:26 AM
Its just the Tempest. Lots of interviews with pilots and the fitters. One of the engine fitters interviewed also mentions the Tempest used 150 grade fuel and 11lbs boost.

VW-IceFire
03-30-2005, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by No601_Zulu:
WOLF

Sounds like you have he same DVD as I. Did you buy the Typhoon and Tempest version.

All I will say it's a pity you cant grab a sound bite of that Sabra, really howls along.

IceFire...

Any more news re how the cockpit is going? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No news unfortunately.

Yeah, that Tempest DVD sounds like a real piece of work. I'll have to try and order it up sometime.

I think its going to be a surprise if ultimately we get flyable Spitfire XIV, Mosquito VI, and Spitfire XIV. I'm kind of hoping for all three...we were certainly within the realm of the possible on this.

Aaron_GT
03-30-2005, 08:55 AM
'Its just the Tempest. Lots of interviews with pilots and the fitters. One of the engine fitters interviewed also mentions the Tempest used 150 grade fuel and 11lbs boost. "

I've got something that sounds similar for the Blenheim, but a 3D set (got the whole thing for under a tenner at one of those clearance bookshops!)

Aaron_GT
03-30-2005, 08:56 AM
Let's hope for +25 boost too!

p1ngu666
03-30-2005, 12:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
'Its just the Tempest. Lots of interviews with pilots and the fitters. One of the engine fitters interviewed also mentions the Tempest used 150 grade fuel and 11lbs boost. "

I've got something that sounds similar for the Blenheim, but a 3D set (got the whole thing for under a tenner at one of those clearance bookshops!) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i got one too, really cool vid http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TheGozr
03-30-2005, 06:16 PM
The Typhoon had it's share of teething problem, not the least because of the relatively unknown Napier Sabre engine. After the problems were solved, the aircraft turned out to be an excellent ground-attack fighter (in stead of the interceptor role it was planned for). It was put to good use against German trains and Armor, and Typhoons claimed a record number of 135 German tanks on a single day in August 1944! The Typhoon had it's own tactic when attacking ground targets: the 'Cab rank'. In this tactic waves of Typhoons formed up to await their turn in hitting the targets.

Strengths:

* Good armament
* Good performance on low altitudes

Weaknesses:

* Inadequate maneuverability against fighters
* Initial problems concerning the engine and aerodynamical issues
* Structural weaknesses when maneuvered violently.

Tempest Mark II production ended up in the hands of Bristol, and the switch delayed production even more. The first Tempest II was rolled off the line on 4 October 1944, but then production was shifted back to Hawker.

A total of 452 Tempest IIs were built, including 136 basic Mark IIs and 316 "Fighter Bomber Mark IIs (FB.IIs)". They were built mostly by Hawker and generally with Centaurus V engines, and of that number 300 were completed after the war. The Tempest II, despite its slightly improved performance and better reliability, never saw combat. Tempest IIs produced during the war were intended for combat against the Japanese, but the Pacific War ended before they could be deployed.

Now witch of the typhoon Oleg will introduce the tempest right..? I hope Oleg will model it like the Yak9U with the first serie and the problems to go with.

VW-IceFire
03-30-2005, 06:39 PM
Gozr....the Typhoon is not the Tempest. The two aircraft are related but the Tempest is a total redesign by Sydney Camm and his engineers at Hawker. This is a major misconception...shared only by the misconception that the Tempest was a ground attack aircraft like the Typhoon. It was not. The vast majority of Tempest missions were flown as armed reconnaisance...hunting the Luftwaffe in the air and on the ground.

Changes between aircraft were quite numerous. The fuselage was strengthened and reshaped, the tail section was totally designed, the radiator was redesigned, the wings recieved the biggest change with a new thinner wing and laminar flow.

The Tempest did not have the problems of its predecessor. The Typhoon had a few major problems, some of which were resolved and some that weren't. They include:
- Notoriously unreliable engine
- Carbon monoxide buildup in the cockpit due to faulty engine seals
- Excessive elevator vibration causing structural failure of the tail section
- Poor altitude performance
- Abysmal roll rate for a fighter

The Tempest didn't have nearly as many problems. The unreliable engine was partially solved through quality control. The Sabre IIB and IIC that were most commonly used were generally better behaved although they were still far more tempermental than the Merlin or the Centarus radial and its one of the core reasons that the Tempest V's disappeared so quickly after WWII.

I'm not sure if the carbon monoxide problem was solved but it may have happened midway through the Typhoons lifespan and not affecting the Tempest design at all.

Elevators and tail unit were totally redesigned (and thus there were no tail separation problems) and the Tempest was cleared with the highest dive rating of any RAF fighter at the time. Tempests in combat used the dive and zoom climb combination to fantastic effect.

The new wings partially solved the altitude problem. It still wasn't a fantastic high altitude fighter but it was good enough and its use at lower altitudes was far more important by that time in the war. The new wings and new ailerons also solved the roll rate problem. Maximum roll was achieved at 350mph with a speed of about 80-85dps. Aileron spring tabs put that to 95dps (from what I can tell) but these were rarely used. Roll rate at near stall speed was very low...much like the Mustang actually (just with a heavier plane).

The Tempests worst vices were high torque on takeoff (partially offset by wide tracked landing gear) and a nasty stall at slow speeds. It wasn't a forgiving fighter for new pilots and that probably had something to do with RAF policy that all Tempest pilots had to have at least one tour under their belt elsewhere before flying the Tempest.

Oleg should not model the Series I Tempest either. They rarely saw combat except against V-1s.. And the external model that Alex Voicu created is a Series II aircraft. About 100 Series I aircraft were built. About 700 Series II aircraft were built...pretty much all of them flying on the frontlines by the end of 1944 and pretty much being the dominant tactical fighter in the RAF during 1945 (although this was shared with about an even number of Spitfire XIVs).

BTW: We did try and hoped to see a Typhoon as well. But the model was not properly constructed and was rejected.

goshikisen
03-30-2005, 08:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
- Notoriously unreliable engine
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speaking of a notoriously unreliable engine... I know the Sabre used sleeve valves and its initial overhaul interval was in the neighbourhood of 20 to 25 hours (I remember reading that the interval got to around 100 hours after they'd got the bugs out) because the sleeves started to warp. 20 to 25 hours... the ground crews must have just loved that.

Just for comparison... what would the overhaul interval be for a Merlin?

Regards, Goshikisen.

p1ngu666
03-30-2005, 10:01 PM
typhoon was very strong, similer to p47
was tail virbration that happened sometimes would shake the plane apart.

hawker test pilots set out to find out what it was, they would do a set program, and ONLY that for each flight, the likely hood was they wouldnt get out of aircraft, so the ppl on the ground would say, oh he came down at 5.55pm, so he was doing snap rolls or whatever.

luckly i think it was solved by some other means

WOLFMondo
03-31-2005, 01:27 AM
GOZR

The Tempest is almost a completely different plane to the Typhoon. One pilot said it was like comparing a cart horse to a racing car. Ken Hughes even described the Tempest V as 'Perfect' and the engine and plane were made for each other. Apart from the outward appearance of the nose there not to much thats the same in the Tempest V, the cockpit is similar in form but the wing, fuselage, entire tail section, undercarrage, electronics, hydraulics, pnuematics and the placing of the cockpit are all differnent on the Tempest. There entirely different dimensions.

Icefire, I think some series 1's saw action in Operation Market Garden as flak and fighter supression and took place in fighter sweeps but apart from that I can't find much about them being used apart from against V1's.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by goshikisen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
- Notoriously unreliable engine
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speaking of a notoriously unreliable engine... I know the Sabre used sleeve valves and its initial overhaul interval was in the neighbourhood of 20 to 25 hours (I remember reading that the interval got to around 100 hours after they'd got the bugs out) because the sleeves started to warp. 20 to 25 hours... the ground crews must have just loved that.

Just for comparison... what would the overhaul interval be for a Merlin?

Regards, Goshikisen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By the time the Sabre was being used in the Tempest it was considered fit ofr purpose. It did reqiure allot of maintenance to keep running but by the time the Sabres were in use in Tempest they had been 3 years of development work on them.

TheGozr
03-31-2005, 02:30 AM
yes i anderstand but i'm not shure that Oleg has the corect data or infos, if he does what it did to the Yak9U and UT the tempest will be doomed.

TheGozr
03-31-2005, 02:33 AM
Anyway every models made in the game should go true historians, real pilots of those planes( the most they can ) and data before release. IMO but that it's an other story http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
03-31-2005, 02:59 AM
Pingu, they never really did solve the tail problem on the Typhoon. They reduced the flutter but the last accident of the 25 in total was in March 1945. The dive speed limit that was imposed was probably the main factor in saving the pilots lives.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
yes i anderstand but i'm not shure that Oleg has the corect data or infos, if he does what it did to the Yak9U and UT the tempest will be doomed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who can say what info Oleg has on the Tempest. lets hope its not from the same source he originally got P47 info from or some Russian data picked up when it was a plane they never trailed or had access to. The only Tempest that could have ended up on Russian hands might have been a Tempest II (which has superior performance to the V in some respects)

Theres enough info out there on both planes that anyone spending a few hours can easily see there very different aircraft, theres also plenty of Tempest pilots still kicking about and at least 2 DVD's available on the net as well as the IWM resources. Even reading aircraft of the aces 27 points out the differences clearly. The information thats harder come by is hard technical data but then the IWM in london or BAe might have that information.

What was nice about the IWM/RAF DVD was the interviews with not only the pilots but the fitters as well as trials footage and actual gun cam and training footage. It confirms that Tempests used 150 grade fuel and 11lbs boost for one thing and the pilot comments all match up..they considered it a very manouverabe plane and very fast plane and all the pilots come from different flying back grounds, not just Typhoons or Spitfires.

sk065
05-20-2005, 09:44 AM
Just thought id bump this post up.
Any news on either tempest, Spit XIV or mossie?
I read somewhere that only the tempest has made it in as AI only. Is this true. Hope not!!!

ImpStarDuece
05-20-2005, 10:25 AM
There are several reports and accounts of the Tempest using +13lbs boost by early 1945.

The Sabre was cleared for +13 well before 1945 but it wasn't considered necessary to overboost the enigne that high.

Closeterman refers to the Tempest running at clost to 4000 rpm and at 13lbs in his autobiography.

As far as I can ascertain the Typhoon didn't ever have dive limits imposed on it when the tail problems occured. In fact the calculations and tests done by Hawker, the A&AEE, MAP and the RAF all shophoonsw that the Typhoon had sufficient structural stregth to withsand dives apporaching 600mph and the associated violent pullouts. Problems with sympathetic vibration are most likely the cause of the tail shedding.

By mid-1944 most Typhoons had undergone modifications to reduce vibration. The elevator mass balance was changed as was the engine mounting brackets, the timing on the Sabre was also very slightly altered. A Rotol electric 4 balded prop was also fitted as was an enlarged tailplane, similar in some respects to the Tempests. The transport joint was generally reinforced with the fishplate stringers even when the tailplane had been replaced.

As for the Tyffie being inadequately maneuverable, that is only really applicable above about 20,000 feet, where its thick wing really hindered the rate of climb and turn. Below about 10,000 feet it was faster than the 190 and had the advatage in the turn. Typhoon pilots also recount getting into turning duels with 109s and coming out on top, or at least holding their own. If they did find themselves out turned they could simply point the nose down and rely on the superior speed of the Tyffie on the deck to get away

goshikisen
05-20-2005, 10:39 AM
Are these screenshots of the 4.0 Tempest in action? They were posted earlier by another member with no real explanation of their origin. I take it this is also the new Murmansk map?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/shot1.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/shot2.jpg

Does anybody know if Alex Voicu was able to finish the cockpit for the Tempest? This aircraft would give the RAF fans something to fly in late war scenarios.

Unfortunately it appears as though the IL2 series has it's own Davis-Monthan of unused and unfinished models (but certainly not unappreciated) that will never see the light of day. I hope that in the future there is a system that will avoid having so many modellers put so much effort into models that will never be used.

Case in point...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/goshikisen/pf16.jpg

This aircraft is such an obvious choice for the Ardennes and Normandy maps... especially since it's mission is very similar to that of the Sturmovik... the aircraft that was the original impetus for this entire series.

Regards, Goshikisen.

VW-IceFire
05-20-2005, 12:03 PM
Yeah not sure...they make me drool, but I hear its only AI...so close but yet so far away.

sk065
05-20-2005, 12:31 PM
Awwww. No tempest, mossie or spit XIV. So the beta05 readme says anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

p1ngu666
05-21-2005, 02:43 AM
tiffy was something like 4x stronger than it was calculated it needed tobe for highspeed and high g http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
highspeed wasnt the problem, some odd aerodynamic or vibration was the problem

Monty_Thrud
05-21-2005, 03:11 AM
So, its not looking very promising for the RAF fans of this Sim....shame...real shame http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

First the Mk21 bites the dust then the MkXIV dissapears, the Mossie is finished but no mention of it, the Tempest is only AI, the Typhoon gets pulled the MkI Spit gets pulled http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

sk065
05-21-2005, 03:38 AM
I really feel for the people who put a lot of hard work into these pits and externals that will probably never see the light of day. I dont understand why th mossie is not even AI seeing oleg mentioned it was flyable. This is really dissapointing for me as an RAF fan. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

WTE_Ibis
05-21-2005, 05:54 AM
Oleg how can we not have this plane flyable?
Many would even pay to have it.
It was one of the main aircraft of the late war.

It just doesn't make sense. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

JG53Frankyboy
05-21-2005, 06:47 AM
i would say, be patient young padawans http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

4.0 will be most propably not the , from some still expectet, mega plane adon.

sure there will be more adons/updates/patches in the future. and this kite will be sure flyable , its just a question of time

remember the last 3 1/2 years , the time after a patch release is just the time before the next patch release http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kurfurst__
05-21-2005, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Oleg should not model the Series I Tempest either. They rarely saw combat except against V-1s.. And the external model that Alex Voicu created is a Series II aircraft. About 100 Series I aircraft were built. About 700 Series II aircraft were built...pretty much all of them flying on the frontlines by the end of 1944 and pretty much being the dominant tactical fighter in the RAF during 1945 (although this was shared with about an even number of Spitfire XIVs).


Uhm, neither the Tempest nor the Spitfire XIV was a 'dominant fighter of the RAF', EVER. They were used by a handful of units, 5-6 Squadrons of each type. There were about ten times as many Typhoons and Spit IXs around at the same time.Compare how many Tempest/XIV squads were with the 2nd TAF in 1944/45 against Typhoons/IXs... a handful of best. And they were all concentrated there... It`s like saying the Me163 or 262 was the dominant fighter of the LW in 1945; it wasn`t, they were rare high performance birds while older models formed the mainstay.

VW-IceFire
05-21-2005, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Oleg should not model the Series I Tempest either. They rarely saw combat except against V-1s.. And the external model that Alex Voicu created is a Series II aircraft. About 100 Series I aircraft were built. About 700 Series II aircraft were built...pretty much all of them flying on the frontlines by the end of 1944 and pretty much being the dominant tactical fighter in the RAF during 1945 (although this was shared with about an even number of Spitfire XIVs).


Uhm, neither the Tempest nor the Spitfire XIV was a 'dominant fighter of the RAF', EVER. They were used by a handful of units, 5-6 Squadrons of each type. There were about ten times as many Typhoons and Spit IXs around at the same time.Compare how many Tempest/XIV squads were with the 2nd TAF in 1944/45 against Typhoons/IXs... a handful of best. And they were all concentrated there... It`s like saying the Me163 or 262 was the dominant fighter of the LW in 1945; it wasn`t, they were rare high performance birds while older models formed the mainstay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree. Clostermann made quite a note on how his Tempest group was called upon to do pretty much everything that could not be accomplished using other types of aircraft.

I'm not talking about numbers of aircraft deployed, I'm talking about actual performance and combat deployment. No, the Tempest and Spitfire XIV were not in the largest numbers in the 2nd TAF. I'm not sure on the exact numbers but probably the combination of Spitfire IX/XVI and late model Typhoon IBs were the bulk of the fighting force. However, those aircraft were sometimes forbidden to operate in certain areas...the Tempest was cleared for operation essentially anywhere along the front and was used for the most dangerous and demanding missions.

If we're to take a keyword out of there..."dominant" in terms of performance and dangerous missions. Not in sheer numbers or overall force capability within the 2nd TAF. But you don't hear much about Spitfire IX's chasing Me 262s into flak zones do you?

Lets not get started on this shall we...I know you have certain perspectives on Spitfires and such and we'll not tread that path that has been treaded before. I think you're going on another tangent than I am...

p1ngu666
05-21-2005, 05:34 PM
its historicaly important http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
also we dont have a tiffy ingame http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

both are serious weapons, thats the feeling you get when u see them in the flesh, several times more than in pics, easily.

u dont really understand till u see them in the flesh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

besides, when we get it ill change my sig to a r0x0r quote
"in a insolent display of superiority, sabre engined tempests overtaking the v1's in level flight."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Badsight.
05-21-2005, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
the Tempest is only AI, the Typhoon gets pulled the MkI Spit gets pulled that never happened


Originally posted by p1ngu666:
both are serious weapons, thats the feeling you get when u see them in the flesh, several times more than in pics, easily. Word !

*fingers crossed for a Tempest pit*

Gibbage1
05-22-2005, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
the Typhoon gets pulled the MkI Spit gets pulled http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I dont remember EVER reading about the Typhoon or Spit MkI being included. Yes, there where people working on them but they never finished the aircraft. Only about 5-10% of the aircraft you read about people "working on" make it.

Gibbage1
05-22-2005, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
It`s like saying the Me163 or 262 was the dominant fighter of the LW in 1945; it wasn`t, they were rare high performance birds while older models formed the mainstay.

Ya. THats they key differance. Axis HAS 1945 aircraft. Allies dont. A lot of the US late war birds wont and cant be included because of the recent lawsuit. Spit XIV and Tempest is our last hope to compete with your 109K4's, 190 D9's, Ta-152's and so on. How many Ta-152's flew combat? About the same as Spit XIV's or Tempest's?

Monty_Thrud
05-22-2005, 01:41 AM
I dont mean in the upcoming patch 4.0, i'm talking through IL2FB's past...The Typhoon and MkI Spit were rejected the Mk21 was pulled because of time restriction, and whats happened to the MkXIV?

Gibbage1
05-22-2005, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
I dont mean in the upcoming patch 4.0, i'm talking through IL2FB's past...The Typhoon and MkI Spit were rejected the Mk21 was pulled because of time restriction, and whats happened to the MkXIV?

The Typhoon and Spit MvI where never submitted. The project's where stopped early for various reasons. I have both the models and they are not even close to being finished. As for the Mk21 I dont know much about it. I got a group togeather with Nyme and a few other guys to rush the XIV off to get it to Oleg in time to be included on the patches. I know the XIV external was accepted, but I am not sure about the cockpit.

Also, please remember. Just because you see a good looking model, thats only 1/4th the job. Oleg's team must spend a HUGE ammount of time programming in the flight model, damage model and every other thing thats in the sim. That takes a LOT of time.

Monty_Thrud
05-22-2005, 02:02 AM
Ok thanks for the reply...i have my fingers and toes crossed for the MkXIV and Tempest flyable.

I'm almost certain Kurfurst has a model of the Spitfire that he regularly sticks pins in http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

p1ngu666
05-22-2005, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
It`s like saying the Me163 or 262 was the dominant fighter of the LW in 1945; it wasn`t, they were rare high performance birds while older models formed the mainstay.

Ya. THats they key differance. Axis HAS 1945 aircraft. Allies dont. A lot of the US late war birds wont and cant be included because of the recent lawsuit. Spit XIV and Tempest is our last hope to compete with your 109K4's, 190 D9's, Ta-152's and so on. How many Ta-152's flew combat? About the same as Spit XIV's or Tempest's? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

there was more XIV and tempests, easily i think
think 240 tempests where lost to flak so a fair number where used, and used alot too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
05-22-2005, 07:50 AM
Just so were straight on numbers here (as accurate as I can make them):
Spitfire XIV Produced (presumably wartime): 957
Tempest V Produced (until August 1945): 800
Me 262 Produced: 1430
Ta-152H Produced: 150

None of those are high production aircraft but there's a vital and key difference between Allied and Axis deployment. While the period between January 1945 and May 1945 saw the reduction of new pilots in the Luftwaffe, the Allies had an over abundance of pilots...more of those "exotic" aircraft saw service with the 2nd TAF. Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of the Tempest Vs produced were on the line with the 2nd TAF (except those first 100 for V-1 chasing) as they kept loosing planes to flak.

So while Germanys production lines continued to press out examples like the Ta-152H or Me 262, neither had pilots to fly them and so very few were actually operational. I'd love to see the numbers on both sides. Nonetheless, historical inclusion of the Ta-152H and Me 262 are fine...historical inclusion of the Tempest V and the Spitfire XIV are just as important from the Allied pilots perspective. From my perspective, any warbird is good, particularly my two favorites...but it seems more and more likely that I will never ever see what I want to see. I'm simply not allowed those pleasures in life.

p1ngu666
05-22-2005, 08:32 AM
sortie numbers, if avalible would be interesting, cos alot of lw planes where produced and never used because of low fuel, transport dificulties etc

think they did 2-3 sorties a day in tempests and spitfires

Lewicide
05-22-2005, 08:46 AM
Simple. no flyable Tempest. EOS

goshikisen
05-22-2005, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Lewicide:
Simple. no flyable Tempest. EOS

What does EOS mean? I'm not up on all the lingo.

VW-IceFire
05-22-2005, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Lewicide:
Simple. no flyable Tempest. EOS
And you have a direct line to Oleg's brain?

Honestly, we've got all sorts of nay sayers, optimists, and so on and so forth. Maybe not in 4.0, maybe in 4.01...maybe never. But the dev team is far more qualified to say than any that have stepped upto the plate.

But maybe I should just give up...

Brain32
05-22-2005, 11:25 AM
But maybe I should just give up...

Don't give up man, or just wait till 4.0 release, then we will see...
But let's look back a little bit, AI Tempest was announced few months ago when we still expected v3.05 so I guess it's not unrealstic to believe they got the cockpit too...
I'm checking il2 database every week for past two months but it seems nobody is updateing it.

p1ngu666
05-22-2005, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> But maybe I should just give up...

Don't give up man, or just wait till 4.0 release, then we will see...
But let's look back a little bit, AI Tempest was announced few months ago when we still expected v3.05 so I guess it's not unrealstic to believe they got the cockpit too...
I'm checking il2 database every week for past two months but it seems nobody is updateing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

been dead for ages i think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

ai tempest, we know, but hopefully we get cockpits

if no cockpits (ever) then its a real smack in the face for us raf guys, and a complete gift for teh luftwhiners http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

i dont mean those that fly lw, but like other planes btw http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RiesenSchnauzer
05-22-2005, 05:36 PM
Given that later war Corsair or Jug models are completely out of the picture for this sim the flyable Tempest is sort of my last great hope for the game. I have to admit it will be a big disappointment if we don't get it.

Lewicide
05-22-2005, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Icefire

But maybe I should just give up...

Naaaahh

I think all us speculators agree it will show up, just not in this patch (as a flyable). Same with the Spit X1V, too much work has been done already for it not to appear. However it could be in a later patch or even in a pay add-on.

Patch speculation the no-1 forum sport around here, love it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

whitetornado_1
05-22-2005, 09:06 PM
I think the Tempest was replaced by the Typhoon


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Badsight.
05-22-2005, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
The Typhoon and MkI Spit were rejected *again* , that never happened

WTE_Ibis
05-23-2005, 12:18 AM
Does anybody believe that there will be more
patches after 4.
I doubt it, BOB will be the focus.Last chance for the Tempest I believe but I sure hope I'm wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

DIRTY-MAC
05-23-2005, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
There are several reports and accounts of the Tempest using +13lbs boost by early 1945.

The Sabre was cleared for +13 well before 1945 but it wasn't considered necessary to overboost the enigne that high.

Closeterman refers to the Tempest running at clost to 4000 rpm and at 13lbs in his autobiography.

As far as I can ascertain the Typhoon didn't ever have dive limits imposed on it when the tail problems occured. In fact the calculations and tests done by Hawker, the A&AEE, MAP and the RAF all shophoonsw that the Typhoon had sufficient structural stregth to withsand dives apporaching 600mph and the associated violent pullouts. Problems with sympathetic vibration are most likely the cause of the tail shedding.

By mid-1944 most Typhoons had undergone modifications to reduce vibration. The elevator mass balance was changed as was the engine mounting brackets, the timing on the Sabre was also very slightly altered. A Rotol electric 4 balded prop was also fitted as was an enlarged tailplane, similar in some respects to the Tempests. The transport joint was generally reinforced with the fishplate stringers even when the tailplane had been replaced.

As for the Tyffie being inadequately maneuverable, that is only really applicable above about 20,000 feet, where its thick wing really hindered the rate of climb and turn. Below about 10,000 feet it was faster than the 190 and had the advatage in the turn. Typhoon pilots also recount getting into turning duels with 109s and coming out on top, or at least holding their own. If they did find themselves out turned they could simply point the nose down and rely on the superior speed of the Tyffie on the deck to get away

I think someone already sent proof to Oleg that Tempests used +13lbs boost http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
05-23-2005, 05:45 AM
Gotta remember Closterman didn't have the most common Tempest V. His personal plane was the ultimate IIC powered version of which there was only a hundred or so AFAIK.

I do know that commonly Tempests ran on 11lbs boost with 150 grade fuel, thats from a Tempest mechanic on the RAF Tempest DVD.

VW-IceFire
05-23-2005, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Gotta remember Closterman didn't have the most common Tempest V. His personal plane was the ultimate IIC powered version of which there was only a hundred or so AFAIK.

I do know that commonly Tempests ran on 11lbs boost with 150 grade fuel, thats from a Tempest mechanic on the RAF Tempest DVD.
However...the most common one (and I think he did fly it) was the Sabre IIB...which they haven't modeled from what I can tell...so 13 pounds of boost on a IIA should make up the difference? Maybe? I don't really know...I just like posting in the Tempest thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ImpStarDuece
05-23-2005, 07:25 AM
Isn't there only about 60hp difference between the Sabre IIA and IIB?

*Goes and checks references*

Right, found it

Sabre IIA; 2,180 hp
Sabre IIB; 2,200 hp
Sabre IIC; 2,260 hp

A whole massive 20 horses of extra power http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I think those figures are for +9lbs boost, which was what they were originally tested for, +11lbs and +13lbs should give higher figures.

ImpStarDuece
05-23-2005, 07:42 AM
From what I have found, of the 800 Tempests delivered before the end of the war about half had the Sabre IIA.

The first two production batches of 100 and 300 aircraft were fitted with the Sabre IIA, while the second two batches of 199 and 201 aircraft were fitted with the Sabre IIB.


As for boost levels, a Tempest V was tested with a Sabre IIA at +12lbs boost. Sea-level speed was 394 mph (630 kph), maximum 'M' or first stage supercharger speed was 411 mph (655 kph) at 3,500 feet and maximum speed at at was 437 mph at 17,000 feet.

Compared to the +9lb Sabre the +12lb provided an additional 20 mph on the deck and 10 mph at critical alt. I would hazard a guesstimate that +11lbs would knock of about 1/3 off of that improvement in speed.

At +11lbs the Sabre IIB was producing 2,420 hp and was cleared for more RPMS than the Saber IIA, making emergency overboosting very feasible.

We could always cross our fingers and hope that a 1945 Tempest with the 2,7000 hp Sabre VA pops up. It would make a nice counterpart for the Ta-1521

Philipscdrw
05-23-2005, 09:26 AM
Well, I really hope the Tempest does make it...

p1ngu666
05-23-2005, 09:42 AM
in my engine book, it said that sabre figures wherent the absolute maxium power, but lower http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

so 2200ish could be max continuous, and not WEP http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

WOLFMondo
05-23-2005, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:


At +11lbs the Sabre IIB was producing 2,420 hp and was cleared for more RPMS than the Saber IIA, making emergency overboosting very feasible.

Overboosting was usedhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Theres more than 1 reference to it and how it was engaged...as some metal wire holding the throttle back, snap the wire and overboost. Closterman stated his IIC Tempest would get up to 2995 HP when overboosted.

sgilewicz
05-23-2005, 11:07 AM
I'm rooting for you Icefire! I know that we all have our favorites (mine being the Jug) and it's a delight to be able to fly them on a regular basis. In my current TLD campaign I am flying the Mustang and I cringe when my briefing specifies ground pounding (OK how many times will I be hitting refly on this one?!). Outside of the Hellcat, Corsair and Jug there are few high performance allied fighters rugged enough to deal with mud moving (the Lightning has awesome ordinance hauling abilities but, like the Spit and Mustang, seems to be very vulnerable to coolant loss). The Tempest would be my inspiration to start RAF campaigns and I'm sure the onliners would salivate at all that low/medium altitude performance. I can only hope that your patience will ultimately pay off with a flyable Tempest in 4.0. Best of luck to us all!

p1ngu666
05-23-2005, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:


At +11lbs the Sabre IIB was producing 2,420 hp and was cleared for more RPMS than the Saber IIA, making emergency overboosting very feasible.

Overboosting was usedhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Theres more than 1 reference to it and how it was engaged...as some metal wire holding the throttle back, snap the wire and overboost. Closterman stated his IIC Tempest would get up to 2995 HP when overboosted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thatll be war emergancy power or similer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
shame i dont have stupid amounts of money, or id take a tempest Mk1 to reno http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

One13
05-23-2005, 02:06 PM
Although I have no information about the Tempest I have been looking at sukhoi.ru through babelfish and on the il2 forums in a thread called something like pictures of work in progress I have seen-

A screen shot from the cockpit of the Mosquito of one of the new Spitfire MkV's on the desert map.

Several new views of the J2M cockpit without the yellow armored glass.

A screen shot that looked like it was taken in the bombaimers station in a glazed nose A20.

Several views of high defanition models of the I-16 (to BoB standard?).

It is not easy navigating with babelfish but you can find interesting things if you search.
Sorry no links.

DIRTY-MAC
05-23-2005, 02:38 PM
Its very interesting to hear about the performance of the Sabre and tempest,
gimme some more!
One thing is clear, It's a beast!
So do you think it will be the fastest single engine propfighter in the game down low?

p1ngu666
05-23-2005, 05:21 PM
p51mk3 maybe quicker on the deck, but abit higher (not much at all) tempest will be fastest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

tempest was the fastest prop about at low alt, the tempest mk1 slightly different engine, and mossie style wing leading edge rads got upto 470mph at best alt.

napier engines are really clever and odd designs also http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

ImpStarDuece
05-23-2005, 08:26 PM
In September of 1943 they got the original Tempest Mk I prototype (HM 599) up to 472 mph in level speed testing, finally surpassing the 469 mph figure for the fastest prop plane that Messerschmidt has set with the Me-209 V1 in 1939.

The Mk1 though was designed as a fighter not a record breaker, something that makes its accomplishment fairly amazing. The Me-209 was a tiny little thing, reminiscent of the Mig-3 in the body design with a long cowling and the cockpit seemingly tacked on as an afterthought just in front of the tail. It had a very short and small wing that looks similar in profile to the P-51s. It sported a DB 601 ARJ that was rated at 1,800 hp but could be temporarily boosted to 2,300 hp.

lrrp22
05-23-2005, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
p51mk3 maybe quicker on the deck, but abit higher (not much at all) tempest will be fastest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


...then a bit higher, the +25 lbs Mustang III will be faster. Then a little higher again the +11 lbs Tempest will be fastest, and so on and so forth.

On the other hand, the oft-rumoured +13 lbs Tempest V would be an absolute demon at lower altitudes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Fish6891
05-25-2005, 09:23 PM
@ICEFIRE:

Just went ahead and read the last 3 pages of this thread. The tone of your posts seem hopeless. Are you connected enough to the development to know for a fact that we are not *ever* likely to get the Tempest or Spitty14, or are you just being pessimistic?

The later I hope.

I am REALLY looking forward to these 2. If the Tempest were included in the sim it'd be my second favorite A/C type to fly, with only the Focke-Wulf series (Ta included) taking my favor over it. Then comes the 109 series followed closely by the Spits(CWs especially)'n'Stangs, then the Jugs, then Yak9UT, etc etc, and I'm rambling now so forgive me, I'm an enthusiast http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I greatly enjoy pretty much all the A/C in the sim except maybe the P63 because of its rear view and because of something else about it I can yet put my finger on...it just bores me that 63. I don't dislike it, its just blah.

Well regardless of all that mumbo-jumbo, I really do hope we get those 2 flyable. I agree for the most part with you guys, they played a big role in the air battle and are just what the doctor ordered for getting the RAF up to snuff with the late war hardware we Lufties have got at our disposal :]

I know Monty will likely be grinning should we get that new Spitty, based upon the fact that everytime he's on WC he's being a **** pest in the ones we've got http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
05-25-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Fish6891:
@ICEFIRE:

Just went ahead and read the last 3 pages of this thread. The tone of your posts seem hopeless. Are you connected enough to the development to know for a fact that we are not *ever* likely to get the Tempest or Spitty14, or are you just being pessimistic?

The later I hope.

I am REALLY looking forward to these 2. If the Tempest were included in the sim it'd be my second favorite A/C type to fly, with only the Focke-Wulf series (Ta included) taking my favor over it. Then comes the 109 series followed closely by the Spits(CWs especially)'n'Stangs, then the Jugs, then Yak9UT, etc etc, and I'm rambling now so forgive me, I'm an enthusiast http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I greatly enjoy pretty much all the A/C in the sim except maybe the P63 because of its rear view and because of something else about it I can yet put my finger on...it just bores me that 63. I don't dislike it, its just blah.

Well regardless of all that mumbo-jumbo, I really do hope we get those 2 flyable. I agree for the most part with you guys, they played a big role in the air battle and are just what the doctor ordered for getting the RAF up to snuff with the late war hardware we Lufties have got at our disposal :]

I know Monty will likely be grinning should we get that new Spitty, based upon the fact that everytime he's on WC he's being a **** pest in the ones we've got http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I hear you. I'm an enthusaist too...I'll fly just about anything and everything. The FW190 series is definately up there as something I fly frequently.

My hope is fading quickly now. I am an optimist through and through but I'm not feeling too good about the chances of flying my number one favorite WWII fighter. And the Spitfire XIV is another one I'm just not very sure about....I have a few connections but they have mostly dried up at the moment. And the Mosquito...no idea.

Where three major RAF aircraft went...is beyond me.

StG77_Stuka
05-26-2005, 12:08 AM
If it isn't in v4.0, it'll be in the pay add-on being released before years end.

RiesenSchnauzer
05-26-2005, 01:15 AM
I missed the announcement of a new payware add-on. Can someone direct me to this?

ImpStarDuece
05-26-2005, 03:25 AM
Nothing is confirmed so just hold your horses. SaQson just dropped a few hints that some more stuff may be bundled in with the infamous "Russian Market Only" add-on to make it more palatable for Western marketers/distributers (read: UbiSoft)

Apparently such a add-on could, maybe, might, possibly, with a little luck and a lot of work, be released before the end of the year. Maybe.

I think it was mentioned in the Raiden thread in PF.

ImpStarDuece
05-26-2005, 03:29 AM
Be sure.(c)
But, I wouldn't hope for something, like AEP for PF. I'd rather believe in a joint commercial add-on for merged install, consisting from all those "Russian CD add-ons", somewhere by the end of the year (my pure speculation ).

Best regards,


SaQSoN (Vladimir Kochmarsky)

Here you are, the quote plucked from the PF forum for your reading pleasure.

MEGILE
05-26-2005, 05:48 AM
Tempest would be good.. but if Oleg is running out of time and HAS to choose, then Italian planes and Ju-88 all the way plz! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Kurfurst__
05-26-2005, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
In September of 1943 they got the original Tempest Mk I prototype (HM 599) up to 472 mph in level speed testing, finally surpassing the 469 mph figure for the fastest prop plane that Messerschmidt has set with the Me-209 V1 in 1939.

Uhm, not really. The 469mph figure of the Me 209 was achieved slightly above SL, whereas the Tempest achieved it at higher altitude, where the air is thinner and drag is less. The two figures are not compatable with each other, the 209 having to work against heavy drag at SL. iirc the early Tempest V at +7 could do about 370 mph at SL, later, more highly boosted variants about 400 or so, but nowhere near 469.

MEGILE
05-26-2005, 06:15 AM
He is comparing top speeds, is he not? Not top speed at same altitude.

Its like saying, the P-47M could acheive top speed of 473mph at 32,500 feet and the Spitfire XIV could acheive 450MPH at 25,000FT.

They are at different altitudes, but they are the maximum speed they can acheive ergo. P-47M most definatly has the higher top speed.

Same with the Me-209 and Tempest MkI proto.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Friendly_flyer
05-26-2005, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by One13:
Several views of high defanition models of the I-16 (to BoB standard?)

Now, this is good news! Upgrading some of the older, somewhat dated models would indeed be just as good as new kites!

Kurfurst__
05-26-2005, 08:22 AM
Megile, speed records were measured at low level for no random reason : that`s was the only place they could reliably measure it with ground instruments. So I mean the record was not broken for a time, altough the absolute speeds were exceeded by some planes of course. I am not sure how the 209 would do at altitude, certainly few if any planes develop top speed at SL.. but it`s engine was specially for low levels with a 'Bodenlader', and produced some 2600 PS - the confusion may come from the fact that there were no less than five record engines from DB, and two recorder 109s, a refined, unarmed but pretty much standard 109E airframe (655kph or soiirc) and the 209V-1/"109R" with ~755kph, both at SL. The Germans also disinformed the public, understating the real power outputs the records were achieved with.

ImpStarDuece
05-26-2005, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:

Uhm, not really. The 469mph figure of the Me 209 was achieved slightly above SL, whereas the Tempest achieved it at higher altitude, where the air is thinner and drag is less. The two figures are not compatable with each other, the 209 having to work against heavy drag at SL. iirc the early Tempest V at +7 could do about 370 mph at SL, later, more highly boosted variants about 400 or so, but nowhere near 469.

I didn't know that the air speed record with He 209 was set at low alt. Ooops http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Meglie is right though, I was comparing absolute speed, not speed at altitude, mostly because they were the only figures that I had.

But,

Firstly the +11 lbs and +13 lbs rated Tempests were not that highly boosted; Napier was putting Sabre IICs and Sabre IVs at somewhere around +18lbs and over 4100 RPM before wars end and looking to boost them further in the future.

Secondly, the Tempest which achieved 472 mph was a Tempest I with SabreIV, not a Tepest V with the Sabre II. The Tempset I had much cleaner lines than the Tempest V; it replaced the large and draggy 'chin' radiator with more elegant wing root radiators. These were later abandoned because the Air Ministry felt that they would be too susceptiable to battle damage.


The later models of Tempest with the Sabre IIC (mostly from the third and fourth production runs, but some were retrofitted) were cleared for 3850 rpm with 150 grade av gas. Sabre IIB engined Tempests with +11 lbs boost at 3700 RPM were recorded at 404 mph at sea level during trials to determine aircraft effectiveness against V1s. This is just 1 MPH slower than the +25lbs Mustang IIIs in the same trials and 7-8 mph faster than the Spitfire XIV. The same engines were later modified (wish I could remember the Mod number) with stronger prop shafts and changes to the reduction gear to get 3850 rpm. +13 lbs, which the Tempests were cleared for in early 1945, would add approximately another 200 hp at sea level but do little for high alt speed due to the supercharger configuration.

VW-IceFire
05-26-2005, 08:54 AM
Trick is...the Tempest V was a frontline combat aircraft and not a prototype or a speed tester. It was the fastest in its class (but not the absolute fastest around) and extremely well suited to what it was meant to be used for. Its a tactical fighter meant for strafing, fighter patrol, ground attack, intercepting jets, and generally being fast. Its the combination of its abilities that makes it an interesting aircraft and one of the best performing of the war.

Wether or not it wins the absolute fastest top speed record at any altitude isn't really the main point. Although I guess its an interesting discussion.

The P-47M, Spitfire XIV, Do-335, and others are all faster than it...but at different altitudes.

p1ngu666
05-26-2005, 10:49 AM
209 record run was done at low alt, but NOT sea level from what ive read. the he100 and relatives article, the he racer did a run and was faster, the Me 209 did a run at a different place, but slightly higher, mr heinkel felt his racer would go faster at the same alt, but he was never given the chance.

tempest was the fastest prop aircraft at low-medium alts around, some stuff was close tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and the macchi mc72 did 440mph at low level probably way eariler, and it has floats http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif plus it was more praticle than 209 probably, as it was designed for schinder trophie, where theres seaworthyness tests etc.

http://www.aviationtrivia.homestead.com/MC72.html

ill see if i can dig up some info on the heston racer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Philipscdrw
05-26-2005, 11:28 AM
Schneider trophy != practical, I think. [/C++]

Tempest is fastest propellor-driven aircraft with guns.

p1ngu666
05-26-2005, 12:04 PM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8309.JPG

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Frequent_Flyer
05-26-2005, 09:54 PM
Fastest production piston-engined fighter of any of the combatants to see operational service was the P-51H at 487 m.p.h. at 25,000ft. They operated in the PTO.A not so distant second was the P-47N at 470 m.p.h. at 30,000ft.

Aaron_GT
05-27-2005, 01:54 AM
Units were allocated P51Hs before the end of the war but did not reach operational status before VJ day.

Kurfurst__
05-27-2005, 04:29 AM
Hey, pingu, isn`t that a photographed page from a book? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WOLFMondo
05-27-2005, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by Frequent_Flyer:
Fastest production piston-engined fighter of any of the combatants to see operational service was the P-51H at 487 m.p.h. at 25,000ft. They operated in the PTO.A not so distant second was the P-47N at 470 m.p.h. at 30,000ft.

Again that is at there optimum altitude. The first Tempest V's in 1944 were hitting 411mph at 6500ft. With bigger engines, more boost etc they got even quicker at low and medium heights. The P47N didn't even hit 400mph till over 18,000ft. At that height the Tempest was still clocking up at 438mph.

Against the P51D and Spitfire XIV the Tempest V was superior in speed all the way till 25,000ft!

Slickun
05-27-2005, 07:25 AM
There is STILL argument as to whether the H saw "operational" service in WW2. I have several publications that claim it did. One even goes so far as to say it saw service for several months.

On the other hand there is evidence none left the US at all.

I personally think they were, literally, days away from operational missions at VJ day.

The P-51H had fearsome speed at low levels. It was NOT like the P-47N, it was like the other P-51's with its supercharger kicking in at different altitudes. On Baughers website it says something like 445 mph at mid altitudes.

Frequent_Flyer
05-27-2005, 07:53 AM
WOLF, The Tempest was designed for its best performance at low to medium altitude. The P-51H and P-47N were both designed to escort high altitude bombers. However, the P-51H reached a speed of 444 m.p.h. at 5,000ft. Out performing both the Tempest V and any Spitfire variant at low and high altitudes to see srvice in WW II.Using your vernacular the "optimum altitude " for the Tempest V was 17,000ft.were it attained 435m.p.h. The P-51H reached 487 m.p.h.at its "optimum altitude" of 25,000 ft.To optimize a piston-engined powerplant to perform that well at at higher altitude and at low altitude was an outstanding engineering feat.They did reequip a number of fighter groups in the pacific and participate in the conflict prior to V-J day.

Frequent_Flyer
05-27-2005, 08:13 AM
Is it too late for the P-51H to be included in the alleged add-on after 4.0.? The wing span is the same as the'D' variant. The 'H' is a foot longer, but whats a foot among friends. Just tweak the flght model of the 'D'.

Philipscdrw
05-27-2005, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Frequent_Flyer:
Is it too late for the P-51H to be included in the alleged add-on after 4.0.? The wing span is the same as the'D' variant. The 'H' is a foot longer, but whats a foot among friends. Just tweak the flght model of the 'D'.

You don't know Oleg very well, do you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Frequent_Flyer
05-27-2005, 09:13 AM
I have read about his attention to detail, truth be told the' K' variant wing span is 1/4 in. longer, the canopy bubble is shorter than the 'D'. The wing is cleaner due to making the wheels smaller, shallower carburettor air intake, and an integral engine mounting saving weight. Oleg has a point, the Luftwaffe/Japanese pilots would have a good vantage point to view these changes as they float down strapped to their chute.