PDA

View Full Version : FB/PF OFFLINE PLAY IS...WELL...GARBAGE



Air_Hog
12-04-2004, 04:11 PM
I didn't think I'd every say these words.

1.What's with the AI. They fly along in a straight line and I just shoot them down one after the other - oh wow, great fun.

2. I go to land with my fellow AI pilots and enemy fighters appear. My AI companions stick to their landing pattern routine and ignore the enemy. That leaves ME to take on a whole pile of badguys - alone. Again oh great fun.

3. You fly over mile after mile of boring pacific ocean for nothing. I know the extreme realism crowd will say "thats the way it was." Well EXCUESE ME PAL, this is still a game.

4. I think the wake island campaign. Third mission or so My wingman and I are overwhelmed with about 30 enemy. Oh great fun.

You know us offline pilots don't often comment on forums. We grab a few nice skins, campaigns, missions and the patches but we don't often talk on a forum.

I used to love FB now the CD gathers dust.

A.H.

joeap
12-04-2004, 04:16 PM
First of all number one and four are kind of contradictory, you gripe about it being to easy and too hard at the same time? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I don't know about straight flying AI I've never seen it.

Korolov
12-04-2004, 04:19 PM
Add these lines to conf.ini

[DGen]
MissionDistance=20
AirIntensity=Low
GroundIntensity=Low

And see if that helps you.

actionhank1786
12-04-2004, 04:20 PM
Then play online and shut up.
This post wasnt needed.

Air_Hog
12-04-2004, 04:33 PM
What I mean is you need a balance. On one mission you find nothing, well thats okay for a few missions, it adds a bit of suspense. Yet on others your overwhelmed with no chance.

Oh I see actionhank1786, FB/PF is an online game only and this forum is for online pilots only. I did make the awful mistake of pointing out some problems that I think need fixing.

A.H.

Jason Bourne
12-04-2004, 04:54 PM
Ok then Air Hog, how about if you post the code that you think they should use for the AI? oh yah, thats right, you cant, so how about unless you actually have a way of solving. or why dont you try and make your own campaigns? since the Random path ones dont seem to be to your liking. I personally love the off line game, if you want quick dogfights, start the marine campaign AFTER Wake.

Air_Hog
12-04-2004, 05:00 PM
Well actually I could contribute to FB/PF at some time. I'm a 3D graphics artist and have created a number of barges, junks, fishing boats and a Japanese heavy cruser for FB/PF. I'm having a bit of trouble texturing them. See I could, well at some point, make a meaningful contributation to PF. I'm no code writer but we all have our talents to contribute.

I guess my main gripe was that Oleg and Co. is they concentrate almost completely on things to enhance online play.

A.H.

Oh by the way Jason "Why don't I write my own campaigns." Look for "Wings of Valor" on some of the links. It's a 100 mission campaign from the Soviet side.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
12-04-2004, 05:01 PM
Short and simple: Bothers you that much, find another game/sim.

VW-IceFire
12-04-2004, 05:37 PM
Do you have the 3.01 or 3.02 patches? These fix problems with the DGEN system. Further upgrades are being made.

Have you made the changes suggested by people in this post and elsewhere? The system is customizable...it can be made to suit your tastes.

Or try a different campaign. USMC at Okinawa is great BTW.

Air_Hog
12-04-2004, 05:43 PM
Thanks VW-IceFire. Those are great suggestions. You sound like a proper British gentlemen. Some pilots attitudes seem to be "pay your money & shut up."

A.H.

sapre
12-04-2004, 06:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Air_Hog:
I didn't think I'd every say these words.

1.What's with the AI. They fly along in a straight line and I just shoot them down one after the other - oh wow, great fun.

2. I go to land with my fellow AI pilots and enemy fighters appear. My AI companions stick to their landing pattern routine and ignore the enemy. That leaves ME to take on a whole pile of badguys - alone. Again oh great fun.

3. You fly over mile after mile of boring pacific ocean for nothing. I know the extreme realism crowd will say "thats the way it was." Well EXCUESE ME PAL, this is still a game.

4. I think the wake island campaign. Third mission or so My wingman and I are overwhelmed with about 30 enemy. Oh great fun.

You know us offline pilots don't often comment on forums. We grab a few nice skins, campaigns, missions and the patches but we don't often talk on a forum.

I used to love FB now the CD gathers dust.

A.H. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For 1: I've never seen this.

For 2: I like this to get fixed too.

For 3: Well it's a simulator. What do you expect? If you want a quick action go play Tarawa, Palau, Iwo Jima, Japan main land campaign. Those are pretty fast.

For 4:
Are you flying for USMC?
If so, I think thats pretty accurate histollicaly.

LEXX_Luthor
12-04-2004, 06:48 PM
Actually, the AI fighters do follow straight line when they are out of ammo, but do turn just before you reach them or as you reach them.

Bombers usually follow straight line http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but to Be Sure, mission builder must have them follow Ground Attack waypoints, otherwise many smaller bombers think they are fighters and drop bombs and attack anything in the air.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

joeap:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>First of all number one and four are kind of contradictory, you gripe about it being to easy and too hard at the same time? Roll Eyes I don't know about straight flying AI I've never seen it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. ...They fly along in a straight line and I just shoot them down one after the other - oh wow, great fun.

4. ....Third mission or so My wingman and I are overwhelmed with about 30 enemy. Oh great fun.

Ya, Choosing which straight line to follow and shoot down can be overwhelming, from time to time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

--joking...poster does note some AI behavior, but there are explanations, although AI always needs more programming resources in any flight sim.

harryklein66
12-04-2004, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Air_Hog:
Thanks VW-IceFire. Those are great suggestions. You sound like a proper British gentlemen. Some pilots attitudes seem to be "pay your money & shut up."

A.H. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep some have strange attitudes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

HotelBushranger
12-04-2004, 10:25 PM
alright people, theres no need to like have a big psycho at A.H. he makes come good points, so don't shoot him down. although i myself haven't played PF, from what he says, yes there are some things that need to be fixed, as some people might not have the opportunity to play online. lets act like grown ups and treat each other with respect.

ElAurens
12-05-2004, 12:30 AM
The AI are pretty lame. I'm not an offliner, but I encounter AI in Co-ops all the time and they are really easy to predict, not very aggressive, and have the situational awareness of a door knob.

actionhank1786
12-05-2004, 12:33 AM
Air_Hog i apologize for the harsh response, but in all honesty, i've never played this game online yet.
Actually i take that back, i got into a game a year ago, but then someone picked up the phone and i was kicked.
the only time i have AI collision problems is when i fly and my wingman follows me through the formation that i just cut through.
Also, next time if you're going to post something you dont like, be a little more respectful about it.
Dont go posting claiming it's garbage. I've been playing this series since I got the first Il-2 about 2 years or so ago, i'm not sure when exactly. And i have never relied on Online play to get my kicks, and i must say, the AI in this game is a lot better than anything i've seen in any other game.
Everything about this game, in my opinion is far better than any other sim i've ever played, and a game that can keep so many dedicated and playing for this long, with a developer who is constantly working to improve and add new things deserves a little more respect than you gave dont you think?

gonzieman
12-05-2004, 03:37 AM
Air_Hog

Sir, do not worry about the responses you recieve from some of the fanboys on this forum, as valiant is it may be they often jump to the defence of their beloved product without seeing the problem from the other side of the fence.

Offline play is Garbage for the most part, and much more of a problem since offline flyers don't often dig through obscure forum threads to find DGEN beta patches to fix a small percent of issues they have.

AWL_Spinner
12-05-2004, 04:16 AM
Isn't there a campaigndifficulty=1 setting or something somwhere that controls how aggressive the AI are?

Remember reading that somewhere. I think the default is relatively easy so all the n00bs who just wish to see their .50 cals blowing up endless Japanese are happy.

That might take care of your point number 1. The distance thing as IceFire has explained is now greatly customisable in DGEN and hopefully that'll make your offline play more enjoyable.

Personally I've never played the stock campaigns in any of these releases. I have, however, played quite a few the community have coded and have enjoyed the creativity in every one. Hats off to you for being a campaign writer.

Cheers, Spinner

Tully__
12-05-2004, 04:36 AM
AI also follow straigh lines if you find them well before the mission designer expects you to (ie: well before the waypoint where there target is designated).

SeaFireLIV
12-05-2004, 05:03 AM
Part of the problem, Air_Hog is not your complaint as such, but the WAY you started it.

"FB/PF OFFLINE PLAY IS...WELL...GARBAGE"

That`s gonna get a lot of offliner`s backs up. I agree that Offline needs more work, but I`ve already sent a message to the DGEN creator (politely) about possible improvements.

Alternatives, add the Conf lines as Korolov mentioned or try DCG by Lowengrin.

Large derogatory comments in capital letters just invite the same back at you.

Extreme_One
12-05-2004, 05:09 AM
IMHO the AI gets better and better with each patch.

It's never going to be perfect though.

About flying for miles and miles - you could always use the time-skip feature.

fabianfred
12-05-2004, 05:40 AM
i must admit to never having played on-line, although i can understand the thinking of those who prefer it, that no AI opponent will ever be as good as a human one.
given that, I still find the AI pretty good, but they particularly depend on a well written mission to help them.
one of my pet hates too, is that when the AI have a 'set' target ahead of them they ignore all else, and also the same once they have reached their last waypoint and entered the landing circuit..
especially amusing is how they will all lock onto the first and nearest enemy to appear, and hunt him to destruction before looking for another target..... also when a number two follows his leader who is targetted on the flight leader of an enemy pair, and trys to squeeze off a few shots too, over his leaders shoulder, whilst completely ignoring the enemies number two who may be right in front of him... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif although I have seen improvement in this last one since PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I probably spend more hours writing missions and trying over and over to get them 'just right', than i ever do flying.... but then i also fly my own missions more than any others....

Spitf_ACE
12-05-2004, 06:09 AM
Nice sig fabianfred.

Is that a screenshot of one of the new objects in the new patch? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

fabianfred
12-05-2004, 06:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spitf_ACE:
Nice sig fabianfred.

Is that a screenshot of one of the new objects in the new patch? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been playing il2 for a couple of years now and have only just got around to putting a pic in my sig..... I use the name 'loon' for all my missions and on other boards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

one day may even get an avatar

Fresshness
12-05-2004, 07:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Air_Hog:
I didn't think I'd every say these words.

1.What's with the AI. They fly along in a straight line and I just shoot them down one after the other - oh wow, great fun.

2. I go to land with my fellow AI pilots and enemy fighters appear. My AI companions stick to their landing pattern routine and ignore the enemy. That leaves ME to take on a whole pile of badguys - alone. Again oh great fun.

3. You fly over mile after mile of boring pacific ocean for nothing. I know the extreme realism crowd will say "thats the way it was." Well EXCUESE ME PAL, this is still a game.

4. I think the wake island campaign. Third mission or so My wingman and I are overwhelmed with about 30 enemy. Oh great fun.

You know us offline pilots don't often comment on forums. We grab a few nice skins, campaigns, missions and the patches but we don't often talk on a forum.

I used to love FB now the CD gathers dust.

A.H. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


YOUR COMPLAINTS ARE VALID!

Let nobody tell you otherwise (self-righteous actionhank1786 for example).

What I would do if I was you, I would forget (for the time being) all about IL2.

Only when you hear BoB is released (IL2+FB+AEP+PF+BoB that is) then, and only then check back and see if most/all of those things you say are fixed. I wouldn't get my hopes up. I know I'll get flamed for this, but 1C/UBI/Oleg (I really don't care anymore at this point) have been lying (really, no foolin'. They did manage to make some blatant lies on several occasions) for some time now.

Sure IL2 is the best prop-flightsim around (for now); but that doesn't mean it should be immume for critisism.

Osirisx9
12-05-2004, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Air_Hog:
What I mean is you need a balance. On one mission you find nothing, well thats okay for a few missions, it adds a bit of suspense. Yet on others your overwhelmed with no chance.

Oh I see actionhank1786, FB/PF is an online game only and this forum is for online pilots only. I did make the awful mistake of pointing out some problems that I think need fixing.

A.H. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Air_Dog

Check out www.warbirdsofprey.org (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org). Post there. we will be glad to here what guys who dont fly online have to say.

RAF238thOsiris

gmot_ka
12-05-2004, 08:40 AM
Try Lowengins campaign generator. It has some bugs but is otherwise a great pice of work. I like it very much.

http://www.lowengrin.com

Just try it! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DuxCorvan
12-05-2004, 09:29 AM
Try Lowengrin's DCG. It's campaigns are better balanced, are more varied and are more customisable than Starshoy's DGen.

Apart from that, yes, I also think Maddox has centered too much in online market, which is good itself, as far as we offliners are not forsaken, as it seems.

AI has not improved at all since the original Il-2. They have only included some workarounds to avoid the most unforgiving situations, for instance, making the formations wider, making soft turning waypoints, or putting your plane in the first formation to avoid the constant 'turning to be behind' of previous versions. But they still have 'psycho' target fixation, pursuing the foe into enemy territory no matter the odds or the situation, and ignoring any other thing. I've seen a guy pursuing me till the end of times to my home base, and chasing me until he got AAA shot down. My mates were circling to land. At a certain time, one of my squad AI mates had the 'psycho' killer just in front of him. He had ammo, because he hadn't engaged at all yet. It looked as he was escorting him! He only had to fire and my chaser would be mincemeat. But... he was in the landing point, and Mr. Crash Dummie had better things to do than killing the guy he was a$$-smelling.

Given that, if I get out of ammo and my fuel is scarce, and press Auto, the AI, instead of pulling me out of combat and head home, will take me just in the middle of the fray, just because I can't change or cycle my own waypoints. That's how the cr@ppy AI works.

If they survive but run out of fuel, they'll shout 'AAaaaargh!' and head for the nearest forest just to have their head sticked if a pine tree branch. It doesn't matter how the terrain is, they'll make a crash landing in the top of the only sequoia that's in five km. around.

If I tell them 'Cover me!', they'll shout 'Right! I'm on him!' and immediatly proceed to cut their nails and paint their lips in the mirror. If I order 'Break off!' or 'Rejoin!' in order to have them off my target and covering my back instead, they'll try to kill me with a side-by-side collision in a frantic race to catch my target before I do. In fact, it's the same what I tell them, they ignore it. It's in the game just to entertain yourself.

If you add the Jedi Force gunner that has a target radar and computer instead of a brain, the obviously non-Jedi rookie AI which ignores deflection shooting just to have an endless 'turn and burn' engagement, the eternal cycle of turns before landing with that boring 'Permission to land' and 'No! Turn around!' -Have they all really to ask it and try an aproach with every turn they make? Can't the base just tell them 'Ok, number four, proceed', while they turn at the same level and just aproach the strip when they're allowed?- the order to repeat a ground attack when nobody has ordnance yet, but MGs, and the way they chase a falling smoking aircraft just to steal your kill, while able foe pours shots on you, and you get the puny state of AI routines.

Since that's difficult to work with, they put it aside and give the onliners more and more non-historical maps, late war uber-stuff and dedicated servers, leaving us with 'perfect' (ehem, only for Nvidia 6800 owners) water, and a lot of really wonderful aircraft that we must put in context with FMB, given the incredibly poor offer of retail offline single missions and campaigns.

Ok, and still I enjoy it. But not telling is not going to help these serious shortcomings. AI is the worst part of PF/FB, without any doubt.

huggy87
12-05-2004, 09:49 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Best AI post yet Dux. I LOL'd at the seqouia and make-up comments. You forgot to add that the AI is also allowed to pull impossible maneuvers with their "simplified" programming.

actionhank1786
12-05-2004, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fresshness:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Air_Hog:
I didn't think I'd every say these words.

1.What's with the AI. They fly along in a straight line and I just shoot them down one after the other - oh wow, great fun.

2. I go to land with my fellow AI pilots and enemy fighters appear. My AI companions stick to their landing pattern routine and ignore the enemy. That leaves ME to take on a whole pile of badguys - alone. Again oh great fun.

3. You fly over mile after mile of boring pacific ocean for nothing. I know the extreme realism crowd will say "thats the way it was." Well EXCUESE ME PAL, this is still a game.

4. I think the wake island campaign. Third mission or so My wingman and I are overwhelmed with about 30 enemy. Oh great fun.

You know us offline pilots don't often comment on forums. We grab a few nice skins, campaigns, missions and the patches but we don't often talk on a forum.

I used to love FB now the CD gathers dust.

A.H. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


YOUR COMPLAINTS ARE VALID!

Let nobody tell you otherwise (self-righteous actionhank1786 for example).

What I would do if I was you, I would forget (for the time being) all about IL2.

Only when you hear BoB is released (IL2+FB+AEP+PF+BoB that is) then, and only then check back and see if most/all of those things you say are fixed. I wouldn't get my hopes up. I know I'll get flamed for this, but 1C/UBI/Oleg (I really don't care anymore at this point) have been lying (really, no foolin'. They did manage to make some blatant lies on several occasions) for some time now.

Sure IL2 is the best prop-flightsim around (for now); but that doesn't mean it should be immume for critisism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not self ritcheous and i apologized for my response.
There are too many people around here who post nice 3 year old posts about how "This game sucks, wah i want this fixed"
do they offer proof no not really, do they show a way to fix it? No they dont do that either, just just piss and moan and stir up trouble. It gets old.

Air_Hog
12-05-2004, 12:02 PM
Sorry for the term "GARBAGE". Never type when your mad. I'd just flown a long hr mission where I encountered no enemy (this was the third in a row of such missions). When I and my AI buddies got into their landing pattern we were bounced by 4 bombers and 4 fighters. All my AI friends were shot down because they wouldn't fight. I just got plain old fashioned MAD!

Well just use accelerate time. When I go 8X my computer locks up sometimes. Also, the AI crash into each other on WP turns (especially while escorting bombers). When I use 4X I still get collisions but no lock up.

Can you picture some average joe that brings home FB or PF (or the combined package). He gets the game all set up and starts a career. He might want a bit more depth than an arcade game but dumb AI and boringly long missions would put him off quickly no matter how good the planes look.

A.H.

Again sorry for the term €œGARBAGE€.

t0n.
12-05-2004, 12:18 PM
Some valid points.

You have to remember though mate that the missions are being generated by a machine with no thought to gameplay. Downloading a campaign by a clever chappy like Extreme_One will go a long towards creating the illusion of a more intelligent bot.

...not that I've got anything against machine generated missions mind you. I play DCG (as opposed to DGEN which is teh_1337 sux0r) 90% of the time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
4. I think the wake island campaign. Third mission or so My wingman and I are overwhelmed with about 30 enemy. Oh great fun.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually really love those and find them far more immersive than the missions with better odds. I think it has something to do with being completely overwhelmed and shifting focus from point-scoring to surviving. The further the scales tip towards the latter the closer we get to a "realistic" game world IMO.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Digger319
12-05-2004, 01:20 PM
Airhog said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>3. You fly over mile after mile of boring pacific ocean for nothing. I know the extreme realism crowd will say "thats the way it was." Well EXCUESE ME PAL, this is still a game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure there are a few out there who will back me on this one...

There are dozens and dozens of "games" out there. Games made strictly for entertainment of a wide slice of computer "gamers". Games that can be played by practically anyone capable of pushing a couple of buttons on a keyboard.

I think Pacific Fighters was created in the spirit of a simulation. A Combat Flight simulation. Most combat flight simulations can be played in game mode - but, in order to experience the most immersion possible, you will need to know how to fly an airplane, (not just push a couple of buttons on a keyboard).

Flying an airplane is out of the reach of most people on this planet. Flying a fighter plane is even more exclusive. Flying a fighter plane in combat is even more exclusive than that! Flying a vintage WWII combat plane in combat is even more exclusive than that (it is impossible to recreate those conditions except on a computer combat flight simulation!!).

I for one, am thrilled by this series of combat flight simulations (regardless of any anomalies, errors or ommisions.

I hope I have made my point.

Snootles
12-05-2004, 01:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> IL2+FB+AEP+PF+BoB that is <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, from all appearances BoB is going to be a clean slate, with a new game engine.

Irksome things about fighter AI: You get pounded from behind by an enemy and ask for cover. They respond affirmative, but don't show up. You evade your pursuer on your own and manage to get behind another enemy. Your AI mates then proceed to come out of nowhere, swamp your target and steal your kill.

An AI squadmate draws a bead on an enemy plane way off in the distance and proceeds to close the gap between them. Just then, another enemy plane and his wingmate flying close by drop right in front of your squadmate. Does he take advantage of these targets of opportunity? No. He's so fixated on that little dot in the distance that even when someone else gets behind him and proceeds to disintegrate his plane, he does not move.


Apart from that, hella fun.

Redeyex
12-05-2004, 03:07 PM
Well the most amusing thing I saw the AI do were four flights of B17E's dogfighting with zero's!

After bombers hit the target and the AI flight leader starts yelling 'Get him off me!' the rest off the flight goes into dogfight mode.

It's hillarious but not very realistic!

Redeye

sapre
12-05-2004, 04:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fresshness:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Air_Hog:
I didn't think I'd every say these words.

1.What's with the AI. They fly along in a straight line and I just shoot them down one after the other - oh wow, great fun.

2. I go to land with my fellow AI pilots and enemy fighters appear. My AI companions stick to their landing pattern routine and ignore the enemy. That leaves ME to take on a whole pile of badguys - alone. Again oh great fun.

3. You fly over mile after mile of boring pacific ocean for nothing. I know the extreme realism crowd will say "thats the way it was." Well EXCUESE ME PAL, this is still a game.

4. I think the wake island campaign. Third mission or so My wingman and I are overwhelmed with about 30 enemy. Oh great fun.

You know us offline pilots don't often comment on forums. We grab a few nice skins, campaigns, missions and the patches but we don't often talk on a forum.

I used to love FB now the CD gathers dust.

A.H. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


YOUR COMPLAINTS ARE VALID!

Let nobody tell you otherwise (self-righteous actionhank1786 for example).

What I would do if I was you, I would forget (for the time being) all about IL2.

Only when you hear BoB is released (IL2+FB+AEP+PF+BoB that is) then, and only then check back and see if most/all of those things you say are fixed. I wouldn't get my hopes up. I know I'll get flamed for this, but 1C/UBI/Oleg (I really don't care anymore at this point) have been lying (really, no foolin'. They did manage to make some blatant lies on several occasions) for some time now.

Sure IL2 is the best prop-flightsim around (for now); but that doesn't mean it should be immume for critisism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What sort of lie http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Can you proof it?

Fresshness
12-07-2004, 05:47 AM
sort of lie, I could prove it, if I had the complete db of all the posts on this forum (ofcourse, also all the data from before the new forum-software).

For example: I distincly remember Oleg promised that the HighGore feature was going to be expanded (before or right after FB, don't remember anymore) Instead; the contrary is true; it's completely vanished.

"3rd CD for PF" ? do you believe that? I don not. Ofcourse I can't directly proof UBI/1C are lying. (Bush can't even proof saddam had WMD, so get a perspective on that).

I'm SURE I forgot alot

DuxCorvan
12-07-2004, 06:01 AM
Yeah, the 3rd CD thing has always looked a poor excuse to calm down the unavoidable whining. But I won't blame them. They can't publicly accuse UBI of forcing them to put an unfinished product in the market.

As for the AI, yes, I liked to see a little more work on the main routines instead of all those workarounds and limitations just to try to unsuccessfully conceal the evident shortcomings of that part of engine.

At least, they have deactivate the most obvious and bleeding workaround: the vanishing AI after landing. That just broke my nerves. I prefer them crashing than disappearing with a -pop-.

SeaFireLIV
12-07-2004, 06:18 AM
I tried talking some AI Zeros into coming here and giving their side of the story, but they were unavailable for comment. Some AI I16s let me take a statement for everyone though:

TacticalYak3
12-07-2004, 06:29 AM
Sorry you had to suffer through some more examples of the stupidity around these parts mate. Notwithstanding, some of the guys were kind enough to offer you some insight.

Outside of the third-party generator, DGEN is presently being re-worked by Starshoy and hopefully will help to resolve some of the issues that you mentioned (and I agree with).

Also, it would be great if Starshoy (or someone associated with him) could provide the community a list of parameters that are valid for FB/AEP and PF when he is done. I have a fair number of them but always feel that I missing some.

While I understand some enjoy being promoting, I have for a long time now appointed myself the squadron commander, which gives me greater control over my squad.

One day the technology/programming will provide campaigns with a much harder AI. While I generally enjoy them even now, I think the experience can be significantly improved upon with the right campaign settings in conf.ini. I can post my DGEN parameters later if you like mate (I believe these won't work until you generate your next campaign though).

Do you play online also mate? Doing so certainly illustrates what the AI lacks, especially the common low-altitude fighting, and that annoying 300-metre radar where it always knows you are there. But hey, it's great fun nonetheless, provided the missions are reasonable and enjoyable.

Regards,
TactS!

TacticalYak3
12-07-2004, 06:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Yeah, the 3rd CD thing has always looked a poor excuse to calm down the unavoidable whining. But I won't blame them. They can't publicly accuse UBI of forcing them to put an unfinished product in the market.

As for the AI, yes, I liked to see a little more work on the main routines instead of all those workarounds and limitations just to try to unsuccessfully conceal the evident shortcomings of that part of engine.

At least, they have deactivate the most obvious and bleeding workaround: the vanishing AI after landing. That just broke my nerves. I prefer them crashing than disappearing with a -pop-. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your pics are always fantastic mate. Can we download them from your webpage? Ratas - fantastic.

Tooz_69GIAP
12-07-2004, 07:01 AM
Have you tried using Lowengrin's DCG for campaigns rather than the DGen?? To be honest, I feel that the DGen thing is not that good, but that's probably mainly due to the limitation of a lot of people's rigs and DGen doesn't overly stress the limitations.

The DCG however, does stretch limitations a bit. But it is scalable, obviously, just needs some work.

I'd suggest trying it out, and then see how offline play is after a few missions.

DuxCorvan
12-07-2004, 07:54 AM
TacticalYak, you missed it. SeaFire is the artist. I guess you clicked in the wrong 'reply' button. And, yes, his pics are incredible. He has his own web page.

I often think they would look awesome as ilustrations in a big big sim handbook. Pity they don't make them yet.

SeaFireLIV page:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/gritier/

Here you can find many fantastic pics by him. Not the best, because they're still to come... he always manages to make something better every time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ask him for permission to d/l -that's a matter of politeness- but he's known to be generous.

J_Weaver
12-07-2004, 09:29 AM
Well this game has its bugs. When I get put out with it I stop and think about the older flight sims and remind myself this is the best yet. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DRB_Hookech0
12-07-2004, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Have you tried using Lowengrin's DCG for campaigns rather than the DGen?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I did, was not thrilled by the results. I have been using Lowengrin's DCG since he started doing it way back in CFS2. I'll admit it is better than the in game mission generator but it still leaves much to be desired.

D/L'd it, set up a Pacific 44 campaign with the USMC flying the Hawg, started the game....was stuck in a wildcat....ok fiddled around and got the corsair...and all the missions were air to mud..evan after I had it set to random...ok, lets try something different.

New Guiena (sp?) 43, USAAF, P38j. Ok 1st mission...move the squadron from Milne Bay to Port Morsby....long flight up the Owen Stanely...I loose 8 planes in the landing pattern after they fly into a mountain while doing the roundy round landing pattern thing.

2nd Mission....recon Milne Bay....WTH?..we just left there...ok so a hour long flight down the entire Owen Stanley...do our recon...see nothing...didnt even get shot at...fly an hour back to base, up the entire Owen Stanley, and loose all 3 wingman to the mountain during landing. So far havenot fired a shot, not seen a Tojo, and lost 11 planes in 2 missions.

3rd mission....recon (again!) ...take off...fly an hour worth of waypoints, hear 2 air engagements take place somewhere, can see Tojo's on the map, but nowhere near my flight (like on the other side of the map from us) fly home, loose 2 planes to the mountain (who is now approching triple ace status) and thru 3 missions nobody has fired a shot, I've lost 15 or so planes and I'm sure we are loosing the war.

I shelved the off line stuff for now because it is infuriating. If I want to fly a campaign, I have to go back to FB and fly on the eastern front with either the Russians or Germans. I'm not happy about this ecause while it was fun to fly on the eastern front for a while....it is getting a little old. I was so much looking forward to the Pacific but so far the map selection is horrible and the off line campaigns are a total mess.

I do fly online with my squadies in Coops a lot so on that front, I find PF to shine and I am really having a good time flying it. It's the off line stuff and the over all map selection that needs serious work. I'd like to see the maps and map selection fixed prior to all these pie in the sky requests for this or that plane, I mean come on, who is going to fly a Brewster day in and day out? Maybe once and then back to the mainstays in the Pacific. I do think we need the Allies and Tojo Torp planes, one because the TBM was a mainstay in allied operations even if it was not doing torp runs. I'm sure the Brits want the Mossy (which I think would be a good addition to PF) and a few other planes but I feel we really need a much better map selection. Hell most of the mid 43 to late 44 aombat areas are no where to be found. Rabaul anyone?

Ok...mini rant over....I'll go get my fire suit on for the backlash........

SeaFireLIV
12-07-2004, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
TacticalYak, you missed it. SeaFire is the artist. I guess you clicked in the wrong 'reply' button. And, yes, his pics are incredible. He has his own web page.

I often think they would look awesome as ilustrations in a big big sim handbook. Pity they don't make them yet.

SeaFireLIV page:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/gritier/

Here you can find many fantastic pics by him. Not the best, because they're still to come... he always manages to make something better every time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ask him for permission to d/l -that's a matter of politeness- but he's known to be generous. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, thnx Dux corvan, and TacticalYak3, but that`s my old link. Didn`t realise it was still up!
I`ve got another one that I`m just adding new pics to right now... Sorry to keep you lot waiting. Soon...

MK2aw
12-07-2004, 10:13 AM
Airhog...did you patch the game? the AI flying along was eliminiated in the first patch and now they act agressively.

Mk2aw

DuxCorvan
12-07-2004, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Well, thnx Dux corvan, and TacticalYak3, but that`s my old link. Didn`t realise it was still up!
I`ve got another one that I`m just adding new pics to right now... Sorry to keep you lot waiting. Soon... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't forget to say 'Voil !' when you raise the curtain... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TacticalYak3
12-07-2004, 12:47 PM
Personally I think most would agree that hand-made campaigns are the best for a number of reasons.

Firstly, the creator can really tailor the experience to the likes of his targeted audience.

And, secondly, one can really present a complete "story" to the gamer as he flies through the campaign. Repetitiveness can be avoided, as well as surprises can be incorporated into the campaign design.

Notwithstanding, they are a lot of work. Kudos to those that make them.

Gato__Loco
12-07-2004, 01:28 PM
I'm also a big fan of Lowegrin's DCG. Not only the missions generated are better and more dynamics, but also what you do has an actual effect on what happens next. If you blow out some columns, the front does not advance, etc. I think its way better than Starshoy's DGEN.

For the AI... yap...there has been some marked improvements, but some important issues are still there. Sadly.

Cold_Gambler
12-07-2004, 02:02 PM
re: point #2 (friendlies in landing pattern not engaging)-
one work-around solution to this is to take a high/the highest rank when setting up the campaign. That way you can give your AI buddies orders that will make them disregard their choice of a dumb/inappropriate AI routine.
Cheers,
CG

LilHorse
12-07-2004, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Digger319:
I'm sure there are a few out there who will back me on this one...

There are dozens and dozens of "games" out there. Games made strictly for entertainment of a wide slice of computer "gamers". Games that can be played by practically anyone capable of pushing a couple of buttons on a keyboard.

I think Pacific Fighters was created in the spirit of a simulation. A Combat Flight simulation. Most combat flight simulations can be played in game mode - but, in order to experience the most immersion possible, you will need to know how to fly an airplane, (not just push a couple of buttons on a keyboard).

Flying an airplane is out of the reach of most people on this planet. Flying a fighter plane is even more exclusive. Flying a fighter plane in combat is even more exclusive than that! Flying a vintage WWII combat plane in combat is even more exclusive than that (it is impossible to recreate those conditions except on a computer combat flight simulation!!).

I for one, am thrilled by this series of combat flight simulations (regardless of any anomalies, errors or ommisions.

I hope I have made my point. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhhh.... This one is wise for being on the first post.

I don't particularly care for the offline stuff but it's far from "garbage". Can it be improved upon. Sure. Very few things in this world could do without a little improvement. But you'd think this guy and those who rushed to his defense got ripped off 'cause the sim doesn't meet their standard of perfection. Please, less 'tude people.

Philipscdrw
12-07-2004, 03:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
TacticalYak, you missed it. SeaFire is the artist. I guess you clicked in the wrong 'reply' button. And, yes, his pics are incredible. He has his own web page.

I often think they would look awesome as ilustrations in a big big sim handbook. Pity they don't make them yet.

SeaFireLIV page:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/gritier/

Here you can find many fantastic pics by him. Not the best, because they're still to come... he always manages to make something better every time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ask him for permission to d/l -that's a matter of politeness- but he's known to be generous. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, thnx Dux corvan, and TacticalYak3, but that`s my old link. Didn`t realise it was still up!
I`ve got another one that I`m just adding new pics to right now... Sorry to keep you lot waiting. Soon... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My word! Why have I not seen this pic (http://members.lycos.co.uk/gritier/hpbimg/HurriStudy.jpg) before? Check out the titles of the books on the floor! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

As for AI compared to online play, the recent times I've been online, I've been flying something Beaufighter or P-38-like for 20 minutes at high alt, in the general direction of the enemy bases or the ground targets, and not seeing any action for ages. This is when there's 50+ players on the server. Then I find a brace of Bf109 a bit higher than me, at 2oclock, and try to get behind them - they see me and come headon, I shoot one down but the other gets my engine, I return to base but crash and burn on the pseudocarrier runway... Rinse and repeat, I spot a dogfight after about 10 minutes straight and level flight and end up negotiating a forested hill with a Bf109...

mortoma
12-07-2004, 08:42 PM
Really don't care about any whining in here, or the whining about the whining from those who consider themselves non-whiners. But after having read some of the posts from both sides of the issue, I'd have to say I've been thoroughly entertained!! Some of the posts in here are really humorous!!!

Lt.Davis
12-07-2004, 09:05 PM
Have u guys(offliner) try call help from your base. I did it few times and my AI friendly did come and help me. I need to Double check tonite.

unseen84
12-07-2004, 10:25 PM
Indeed, this has been a pretty entertaining thread. A mountain approaching triple ace status...lol. But on topic, I haven't really had any problems with the campaign generator as it is. However, I also haven't started any Pacific campaigns yet, and won't be doing so until the plane-patch comes out. I've been sticking with my Russian campaing instead. I missions have been varied enough that I haven't had any real problems with it.

On the other hand, the ai does annoy me at times. I generally think that the ai in this sim is quite good, but I've also seen most of the peculiarities about it that others have mentioned here. I think my favorite is the one DuxCorvan mentioned where the ai plows into a forest when an open field for a crash landing is just a short distance away. I can't count how many times i've seen my comrades waste themselves doing that.

Even so, I'll stick with it. I just hope us offliners don't get pushed to a backcorner by Oleg & co.

Bearcat99
12-08-2004, 04:38 AM
Take all of the good suggestions in this thread..... and also consider the UQMG. Look in the Essentials link in my sig and DL Uberdemon's software. You wont be sorry... you can make some of your own missions. Try the FMB as well. This AI though not perfect is actually pretty good. I dont like some of the things they do... like attacking planes that you have already set aflame instead of the one peppering you with 20mm shells more often than not.... but foe the most part it is pretty good. If you are on dial up you might want to look for a copy of PC Pilot (http://www.pcpilot.net/(az4dzu5515bujv55qogxpr3o)/index.aspx) or Computer Pilot (http://www.computerpilot.com/) magazine. They usually have disks with copies of the UQMG and other utilities on them.

SeaFireLIV
12-08-2004, 05:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lt.Davis:
Have u guys(offliner) try call help from your base. I did it few times and my AI friendly did come and help me. I need to Double check tonite. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you call for help from the Tower or Carrier they will definitely send aircraft if available. The Tower will say if no aircraft are ready. You can increase this if you set RANDOM FLIGHTS=High, so there are more planes patrolling. The tower will immediately pick a flight and send it to you.

I`ve had my butt saved many times with a call to Tower, I`ll even make a call now even before a fight and when I think things are about to get rough (sometimes they can arrive late)!