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View Full Version : Has anyone else started to question some of Ezio's decisions?



Smbradley91
01-10-2011, 07:48 AM
Or the Assassin's altogether?

I mean one of the side missions you find a woman who talks about her husband cheating on her. So Ezio says "I'll sort out your problem."

And then you go and kill him! lol seems a little bit of strong punishment.

And it slowly seems to me like the templars are just trying to create some order to society and all the assassins want to do is kill everyone.

Seems like if the assassins were in charge they'd bring in those laws where you get your hand cut off for stealing.

And they're so against politicians that it's pretty easy to relate the assassins to modern day terrorists.

Just seems that Ezio's solution to every problem in the world is to go and kill someone. Seems slightly excessive...

Smbradley91
01-10-2011, 07:48 AM
Or the Assassin's altogether?

I mean one of the side missions you find a woman who talks about her husband cheating on her. So Ezio says "I'll sort out your problem."

And then you go and kill him! lol seems a little bit of strong punishment.

And it slowly seems to me like the templars are just trying to create some order to society and all the assassins want to do is kill everyone.

Seems like if the assassins were in charge they'd bring in those laws where you get your hand cut off for stealing.

And they're so against politicians that it's pretty easy to relate the assassins to modern day terrorists.

Just seems that Ezio's solution to every problem in the world is to go and kill someone. Seems slightly excessive...

Murcuseo
01-10-2011, 07:59 AM
You're projecting your modern perspective into the 1400 and 1500's, where I'm sure things were a little different. Punishments were a lot more severe back then. Also, you're only really seeing one side of the story so you have no idea what the Templars are really up to. We're told the Templars want to rule through lies and deceit where as the Assassins want everyone to know the truth and make their own decisions.

Ezio himself isn't against Politicians per say. Think about Lorenzo de' Medici, he is basically one of Ezios best friends in ACII and he was a Politician.

Avl521
01-10-2011, 08:24 AM
You can also see Egidio Troche, a senator in AC:B if I'm not mistaken, who, after Ezio's help decides to straighten his ways and work for the city of Rome and it's people.

You can also see how Ezio defends Copernico from the Borgia, who now want him dead for his theories that endanger Templar control.

And if I'm not mistaken the mission about the husband is Oberlin? you know, the blacksmith with a hammer from the multiplayer that spreads Borgia propaganda.

Overall, Ezio's motives are to clean the city from those that help inforce Borgia's power and opression. He kills those who facilitate or enforce the domination in Rome. He's an assassin, his methods are not exactly pacific.

And the reason he kills templars is because templars basically want a new world order, but the way they intend to achieve it is by controling and enslaving everyone.
Assassins want everyone to know the "truth" and be free, using what they know to make the best choices to everyone. So basically they're killing those that want to enslave us, and the enslavers themselves aren't any better.

Templars:
Kidnap people, hold them against their will to use them in the Animus.
Use cellphone towers to investigate, locate and monitor people.
Rig elections and put their lackies on government positions.
Facilitate wars and incidents to ensure their control in multiple regions.
Monitor people through their TVs. (that phone conversation was the creepiest thing I've ever heard in my life.)
Kill people who stand in their way. (as proved by the TV conversation, the attempt to murder Lucy, Leila Marino's death, etc.)
Launch a satellite with POEs to enslave all of mankind.

Yeah, I think fighting in any way against templars is just fair.

Smbradley91
01-10-2011, 08:42 AM
Yeah some good points, and I can see both sides. But it is kinda funny with the side missions when some one asks Ezio for help and his immediate conclusion is to kill them.

Yeah I guess it isn't all politicians but a lot of them are or if not then some form of high up authority.

With the assassins wanting to spread the truth though it doesn't seem like they are trying to spread it because they don't ever tell anyone about the templars, and as soon as it got to around 1994 or so I don't get why the modern day assassins didn't create a website to tell everyone the truth. Seems like in the modern day portion of the game with Desmond and people that they easily could have spread the truth.

I assume it's because they don't want to endanger people or something.

I guess like you say Avl521, he is an assassins at the end of the day and not a pacifist, but you must have thought at some point - "Hold on, why am I killing this guy again?"

Also all those things you list the Templars of doing, yeah they are bad but that's pretty much exactly what the US government do today but that doesn't make terrorists the good guys does it?

At the end of the day though it is fiction based on loads of conspiracy theories and such so I guess it's kinda hard to say whether the assassins are completely right in their decisions.

But as much as I love Ezio I think he enjoys killing people abit too much.

Plus if you do look at it from the side of the templars the assassins do just look like serial killer anarchists.

DANAVFC95
01-10-2011, 08:51 AM
I dont understand why Ezio seems to kill anyone who has done something wrong, but did not kill Rodrigo Borgia in AC2?

magesupermaster
01-10-2011, 09:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DANAVFC95:
I dont understand why Ezio seems to kill anyone who has done something wrong, but did not kill Rodrigo Borgia in AC2? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Listen to what Ezio says to Rodrigo at the end, then come back.

Avl521
01-10-2011, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smbradley91:
Also all those things you list the Templars of doing, yeah they are bad but that's pretty much exactly what the US government do today but that doesn't make terrorists the good guys does it?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you're comparing fiction to reality.
And if we speak about the fiction, I'll point even more things out:
<LI>Check people's backgrounds and ancestors.
<LI>Kidnap and hold people against their will.
<LI>Use said people to find artifacts with unbelievable powers.
<LI>Risk those persons to go insane and die/commit suicide due to the ill effects of the Bleeding Effect.
<LI>Hunt their oposition (The Assassins) and take them out on sight.
<LI>Test a chemical called "New Fluoride" which practically poisoned an entire community.
<LI>They were responsable for the DIA accident that caused everyone at the facility to die.
<LI>According to e-mails and letters, The Templars are the ones that created mass production, the assembly line, electricity and guess what else? The Atomic Bomb.
<LI>Through e-mails and letters, a previous Abstergo leader/employee states they must neutralize communists.
<LI>Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin are credited as templars during the game... how much more evil can you get?
<LI>They have assassinated people that were close to, or had created things that would help mankind progress without the need of Templars.
<LI>They are present in almost every major conspiracy in history.
<LI>They sabbotage elections and place whoever they want in the U.S. Senate and it is hinted even the presidency.
<LI>According to the rifts, Abstergo was involved in Argentina and Chile, incidents in which 30.000 people disappeared, and 3.000 people died respectively.
<LI>Abstergo uses TVs to spy and keep information about civilians. When a civilian found out and called the cable company, they immediatly sent someone to kill him and his son, this can actually be heard in one of the rifts, and as I said before, has to be the creepiest thing to have ever existed.
<LI>They use cellphone towers to find and monitor people.
<LI>They want to enslave everyone with POEs and the satellite, basically robbing us of free will while they become the leaders and basically Gods of the new world.

It may be true some of these things are also done by governments today, but Abstergo, by far, is wicked compared to what you mention.

Smbradley91
01-10-2011, 09:17 AM
Fair play but then you could argue that they are more wicked then Governments today because the things you listed have happened over longer periods of time.

Plus I know Hitler and Stalin have been credited as Templars but that's kind of a contradiction because if Templars pretty much control the most Governments and like you say are strongly in charge of US Gov, then why did US fight against Hitler?

Why did templars want to neutralize communists by the way?

Avl521
01-10-2011, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smbradley91:
Fair play but then you could argue that they are more wicked then Governments today because the things you listed have happened over longer periods of time.

Plus I know Hitler and Stalin have been credited as Templars but that's kind of a contradiction because if Templars pretty much control the most Governments and like you say are strongly in charge of US Gov, then why did US fight against Hitler?

Why did templars want to neutralize communists by the way? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hitler apparently was in possession of a POE, IIRC the plan was to have him cause the war, the US would then win the war, killing Hitler's double inside the bunker, then Hitler would return the POE and reintegrate to the order. However if I'm not mistaken, Assassins got in the way and assassinated Hitler when he got outside the bunker.
So basically it was all a plot to find another POE, but it flopped and bit the templars ***es.

On the rifts, it is also stated that capitalism was created by templars, the whole system is their way to control workers, producers, everyone really.
Communism is a threat to the capitalist system, and it is even shown during one of the rifts, that the so called communists on one of the photos, if inspected with the X ray thingy, instead of carrying communist propaganda, they were carrying banners with the Assassin logo.

Smbradley91
01-10-2011, 09:30 AM
But also I'm not saying that the Templars are good, I realise they're the bad guys in this but do you not think that any story being told from one side is going to make you take that side of it?

Avl521
01-10-2011, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smbradley91:
But also I'm not saying that the Templars are good, I realise they're the bad guys in this but do you not think that any story being told from one side is going to make you take that side of it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, you're right about that.
It's just that, they've shown the philosophy of both sides of the conflict.
Templars believe humanity needs to be lead, and that they should be the ones to do that.
Assassins believe nothing is true, everything is permitted.
They believe humanity needs to know the truth, and by knowing it acquire the wisdom to do what's best.
The way they do things (both sides) is basically war, death on both sides.

But you are an assassin, so I guess you have no choice in game to do what you wish or support who you want.

Smbradley91
01-10-2011, 09:45 AM
No I would still support the assassins over the Templars but I do just sometimes wonder about Ezio's killing of minor people.

Ah thanks for explaining the Hitler thing and the communist thing.

If Communism is a threat to Capitalism was that created by assassins or another party against the Templars or was it just a kind of 'coincidence' that Communism came about?

Johno_efc
01-10-2011, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smbradley91:
But also I'm not saying that the Templars are good, I realise they're the bad guys in this but do you not think that any story being told from one side is going to make you take that side of it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is brought up in Project Legacy.

Avl521
01-10-2011, 10:23 AM
Well Ezio's tale is that of an assassin, and one who was looking for Revenge.
Rodrigo Borgia plotted a conspiracy in which most of Ezio's family died, so there goes Ezio's revenge in AC2.
Once Ezio believed it was over, Cesare comes, completely destroys Monteriggioni, and kills Uncle It's-a-me-Mario.
So he wants revenge again, and anyone who stands in his way would probably either be ruined or dead.

So his violence is kind of justified.

And yeah, in Project Legacy you play as templars, assassins, templars that became assassins, so you get to see both sides.

SAVMATIC
01-10-2011, 03:01 PM
The assassins understand a higher truth that free will and the choice all people have to be moral or not is essential to the progression and development of mankind. The Templar just want to control everyone and have them serve their will.
So a man who swears to be faithful to a woman through marriage breaks his word.....sure, kill em. There is no need for immoral humans, Ezio is honoring the deepest moral code of mankind, and that is what the assassins defend.

Smbradley91
01-10-2011, 03:16 PM
Lol yeah but then it's wrong to kill people and probably worse so then it is to be unfaithful...

Avl521
01-10-2011, 03:22 PM
Yeah, saying they deserve to die because they were unfaithful is a bit extreme...

itsamea-mario
01-10-2011, 03:34 PM
Well they are 'Assassins' killing people is pretty much what they do.

E-Zekiel
01-10-2011, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smbradley91:
Fair play but then you could argue that they are more wicked then Governments today because the things you listed have happened over longer periods of time.

Plus I know Hitler and Stalin have been credited as Templars but that's kind of a contradiction because if Templars pretty much control the most Governments and like you say are strongly in charge of US Gov, then why did US fight against Hitler?

Why did templars want to neutralize communists by the way? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why risk losing, when you can invent a false enemy and ensure your victory, and gain control of the hearts and minds of a nation or most of the modern world in your victory?

Also, have you watched V for Vendetta? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

TrueDemonzBane
01-10-2011, 04:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smbradley91:
Fair play but then you could argue that they are more wicked then Governments today because the things you listed have happened over longer periods of time.

Plus I know Hitler and Stalin have been credited as Templars but that's kind of a contradiction because if Templars pretty much control the most Governments and like you say are strongly in charge of US Gov, then why did US fight against Hitler?

Why did templars want to neutralize communists by the way? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>the templar had alot of strong ties in america right? well, what happens when america comes to save the day from an evil, mass murderer? everyone loves america, therefore they get more power in the world wide spectrum. also, i think that the husband referred to in the OP was the member of the centro ochi (thousand eyes) who pushed men from rooftops to kill them, but either way, i do think killing them was a bit extreme. maybe he could have just broken the gang member's legs, and broken the blacksmith's arms? but he is an assassin, and they do kill. we'll just have to see if it all pays off in the end, or if everyone is standing around with guns pointed thinking "how the hell did i get myself in to this mess?"

Serrachio
01-10-2011, 04:28 PM
The person you're on about is Lanz, and he became the leader of the Cento Occhi which robbed from the poor and as TrueDemonsBane said, pushed people from the rooftops.

He became a Cento Occhi because his wife had a miscarriage and it left him a bit loopy.

Ezio kills Lanz to disband the Cento Occhi.

Augustine Oberlin was the blacksmith who beat his wife because she wouldn't go along with him rallying support for the Borgia. Ezio kills him to weaken Borgia influence.

Smbradley91
01-10-2011, 04:31 PM
Yeah I can see the WW2 thing now. But let's not start saying that America saved the day and single handedly won the war...

Yeah I have seen V for Vendetta thought it was a very good film.

ShamrockGTX
01-10-2011, 04:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smbradley91:
Or the Assassin's altogether?

I mean one of the side missions you find a woman who talks about her husband cheating on her. So Ezio says "I'll sort out your problem."

And then you go and kill him! lol seems a little bit of strong punishment.

And it slowly seems to me like the templars are just trying to create some order to society and all the assassins want to do is kill everyone.

Seems like if the assassins were in charge they'd bring in those laws where you get your hand cut off for stealing.

And they're so against politicians that it's pretty easy to relate the assassins to modern day terrorists.

Just seems that Ezio's solution to every problem in the world is to go and kill someone. Seems slightly excessive... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im pretty sure that cheating man, as actually abusing her... you can see her purple eyes and blood gashes all over her face and he is infact a Borgia supporter and also has the small village under his grip...and if youre talking about the one In AC2, Ezio beats the crap out of him. not kill him

Avl521
01-10-2011, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smbradley91:
Yeah I can see the WW2 thing now. But let's not start saying that America saved the day and single handedly won the war...

Yeah I have seen V for Vendetta thought it was a very good film. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who ever said that? if you read some posts carefully you see WWII was a set up. it was rigged from the beginning so that the allies won.