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View Full Version : Gyro Gun Sights for the RAF during World War Two. Not in here for the spits why not?



Sofiyah
09-17-2004, 06:23 AM
hi

Why have the RAF planes like spifire variants do not have Gyro Gun Sights. They were invented in Manchester, England early in the war and found them being used in increasing numbers by 1943-44. So why are they not in FB/aces

Sofiyah
09-17-2004, 06:23 AM
hi

Why have the RAF planes like spifire variants do not have Gyro Gun Sights. They were invented in Manchester, England early in the war and found them being used in increasing numbers by 1943-44. So why are they not in FB/aces

Sofiyah
09-17-2004, 06:25 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/439218.stm

VW-IceFire
09-17-2004, 07:14 AM
I've got one guess and I'm not sure if I'm 100% right on this one.

Here's my theory. The Spitfire V's were almost never fitted with gyros that I know of. It was the IX models that were first fitted in numbers with the gyro gunsights. So the Mark V is out of the runnings.

The Mark IX's (and the Mark V) represent the Spitfires that were sent to the Russians and used in the VVS on the Eastern Front. So my thinking is that perhaps the British didn't send them any aircraft equipped with the gyro gunsights. A military secret or something along those lines.

I would expect to see the Mark XIV, if its ever finished, would have a gyro gunsight. I've got pictures of its installation in a XVI (IX Packard Merlin) if info is needed.

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Kurfurst__
09-17-2004, 08:31 AM
It`s a dark conspriration, the details are laid down in a secret pack between Oleg and the luftwhiners. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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BSS_Goat
09-17-2004, 08:43 AM
You have won longest post title!

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p1ngu666
09-17-2004, 08:49 AM
hm wasnt the k14 a modified copy of some british sight?
think we should lobby for mark IX wid 150grade fuel AND fancy sight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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Daiichidoku
09-17-2004, 11:11 AM
if we get the 150 oct fuel, then I want the pilot voice from spitfire in Janes..."my kite's been pranged!" hehehe<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
hm wasnt the k14 a modified copy of some british sight?
think we should lobby for mark IX wid 150grade fuel AND fancy sight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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One13
09-17-2004, 12:23 PM
The USAAF K-14 and the USN Mark 18 sights were direct copies of the British Gyro Gunsight Mark IID.
In 1944 analysis of 130 combats by MkIX Spitfires with fixed sights resulted in 34 kills, or 26 percent.
A Sqaudron with the Gyro sight were involved in 38 combats and shot down 19, so 50 percent.
The gyro sight nearly doubled the effectiveness of air-to-air gunnery.

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DarthBane_
09-17-2004, 01:35 PM
With me262 on server, you can use any fuel or gunsight for spits. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

MB_Avro
09-17-2004, 06:06 PM
Apologies for my ignorance...

What does a giro gunsight do to make it so effective??

BaldieJr
09-17-2004, 06:20 PM
It computes lead (takes the guesswork out of calculating kentucky windage).

http://www.acphosting.com/BandR.jpg

Sofiyah
09-18-2004, 05:42 PM
Well if the arguements goes that oleg modded the spitifire for russian front accuracy. Why did he put the p51d in the game when there were only about 5 in russia. what about the x plane with the two g6 aqttached together, it never flew combat missions.

I fear oleg wants to push the brits out of the picture and concentriate on the american market. This is another reason why bob is being made, Battle of britian is rather popular in the US. I wish he would of given the british halifaxes, lancasters (superior bomer to the b17) wellingtons, hanely page, manchester, not just a variant of american bomber (b35) to give the impression the brits never had their own bombers and only used american stuff. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I am not into getting into a slanging match with the americans, but I do feel left out abit. Yes we have a few spits, hurriancains, but no bombers, oh the blenhiem, yes cannot fly it.

Oh well i it was wishful thinking that oleg was not going to break the mode. A really brave decision would to build up the british in 1942 -45, then these planes could be used in the med, mid east, asisa, far east etc. I suppose its nice he is buliding the brit aircraft carriers and somme battleships like the hood ( think)

Sofiyah
09-18-2004, 05:43 PM
the b25 not b35

609IAP_Recon
09-18-2004, 10:42 PM
Sofiya: Has to do with modellers who did the work because they liked those aircraft and Oleg was kind enough to add them in.

"Battle of britian is rather popular in the US"

Not near as popular as in Britian? I wouldn't say it's that popular - actually, PF will be very popular to US market!

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p1ngu666
09-18-2004, 10:57 PM
i think its pretty clear theyve gone for the us market.

but we ARE getting a mossie or 2, which is prolly the best bomber if u want hit target and rtb.

lanc is better than b17/24 in bombload and heavy bombs

dunno about speed, range etc

mossies we will get will be ify in 44 planeset i think, also we get exhaust shouds which will slow it down http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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Aaron_GT
09-19-2004, 01:54 AM
I think the lack of Hampden and Wellington is as much that fact that noone seems to have modelled them. I've seen a fair bit of cockpit info for the Hampden, and even turret information for the Whitley, but I don't know if there is enough to make a complete bomber.

There is plenty of info for the Halifax and Lancaster in terms of internal detail, but 4 engined planes are a huge modelling task.

we are getting a couple of British twins in PF, and we already have two models of the Blenheim.

GoToAway
09-19-2004, 02:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sofiyah:
I fear oleg wants to push the brits out of the picture and concentriate on the american market. This is another reason why bob is being made,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, Oleg wants to push the Brits out of the picture by making a game based upon the Battle of Britain. Obviously he has a diabolical plan to undermine the British people and cater to the Americans by making a game about the Battle of Britain. A battle in which a negligible number of Americans participated. A battle in which all of the important allied aircraft were British. A battle about which few Americans outside of aviation enthusiasts or history buffs know or care about in anything but name.

Let me guess, Oleg made Il-2, a game that focuses on the Eastern Front, to push the Russians out of the picture and appeal to the Australians, right? Have you taken your medicine today?

I'm sorry. I can see how one could argue that Pacific Fighters is being targeted at an American market, but suggesting that a game based upon the Battle of Britain is being made to "push the British out of the picture and appeal to Americans" is ludicrous.

As for a lack of British aircraft in Il-2, that also isn't a part of some grand conspiracy to keep the British down. The British did not have a gigantic lend-lease program with the USSR. The US did, hence the large number of US aircraft and the lack of Tempests and Lancasters. Il-2's primary focus is on the Eastern Front. EVERYTHING else has been extra. We are lucky that we've gotten maps of Normandy, Balaton, the Pacific, and North Africa because they are not the focus of the game and have been included as bonuses. Most of the aircraft that only saw use among the US (such as the P-38) have been made by players, not by Oleg. They made these aircraft because they liked them, not because they wanted to force the British out of the picture.

I swear, it sounds like everybody thinks that Oleg has a vendetta against them based upon either the country they come from or the plane they fly.
"OLEG HATES GERMANY! THE 190 COCKPIT BAR PROVES IT."
"OLEG HATES THE US AND LOVES COMMIES. THE .50 DISPERSION PROVES IT."

Oleg is cool. He's only human and can only do so much. Everything will come in good time.

Fehler
09-19-2004, 03:00 AM
ROFL! Man, that's rich.

Yes, us whiny "Too rich for our own good" Americans want to be better than everyone else and push the British out of the game. That's why we have the K-14 and the Brits have no lead computing sight.

Well to toss a wrench into your theory, I am an American and I fly neither the Pretty Pony nor the Spitfarter. Point is? I am American Oleg, where is my lead computing sight for my German planes? C'mon Oleg, lets finish these British off once and for all. We took their tea, stole their colonies, now lets kick them out of aircraft simulations! Viva la Estados Unitos!

No wonder you guys drive on the wrong side of the road. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oh wait... Here is another thought. Perhaps.. YES!, just maybe... No one modelled the British sight! Could that be the reason it isnt in the game?!?!

NAW...

By the way, I would love to have the British bombers in the game! They make excellent targets for my FW190!

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WOLFMondo
09-19-2004, 03:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sofiyah:
I fear oleg wants to push the brits out of the picture and concentriate on the american market. This is another reason why bob is being made, Battle of britian is rather popular in the US. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes no sense what so ever. You might find the Battle of Britian is slightly more popular somewhere else and it invlolves the British rather more than the USA.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Abbuzze
09-19-2004, 06:12 AM
maybe cause the D9 also should get one if the Spit will get it???
Search for EZ42...

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WTE_DuStA
09-19-2004, 06:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:

We took their tea, stole their colonies, now lets kick them out of aircraft simulations! Viva la Estados Unitos!

No wonder you guys drive on the wrong side of the road. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler44.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


actually you didn;t steal Aus and i doubt it would ever be received nicely over here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Shooting down yanks is enough for me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Korolov
09-19-2004, 06:35 PM
Fratrucide? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

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Aaron_GT
09-20-2004, 03:19 AM
"That makes no sense what so ever. You might find the Battle of Britian is slightly more popular somewhere else and it invlolves the British rather more than the USA."

Unless we get the special Tom Cruise edition :-)

(Just an anti-Hollywood historical fantasy glitzy thriller dig, not anti-Americanism!)

WTE_Ibis
09-20-2004, 05:07 AM
I wanna shoot down Tom Cruise,don't care who he's
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WOLFMondo
09-20-2004, 06:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
"That makes no sense what so ever. You might find the Battle of Britian is slightly more popular somewhere else and it invlolves the British rather more than the USA."

Unless we get the special Tom Cruise edition :-)

(Just an anti-Hollywood historical fantasy glitzy thriller dig, not anti-Americanism!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me and my cricket bat would have to pay Oleg a visit if that happened.

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p1ngu666
09-20-2004, 06:37 AM
p51 won the battle of britain, be sure.

thought the germans didnt get a computing sight into use?

if someones got pics of sight we can see how different they are..

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PraetorHonoris
09-20-2004, 07:34 AM
I don't have many data about the Askania EZ42, but it definatly was in use and saw combat.
It is often stated that the EZ42 replaced the ReVi 16 in the Ta152, Fw190D and Me262A1, so I assume that it was mass produced.

Of course it saw more combat than some fantasy birds in the game... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Here some pics:

http://www.sam.hi-ho.ne.jp/ki-44/image2/EZ42.jpg

EZ42 in a Me262
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.co.uk/jan/AM51-2x.jpg

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VW-IceFire
09-20-2004, 11:26 AM
PraetorHonoris, I thought that I had read that it was equipped but un-evenly distributed with only certain pilots, usually of privilege, getting to use the site.

Nonetheless, I'd love to have it too.

Argument for aircraft using Soviet specs: Most aircraft that were available to the Soviets through lend-lease are modeled as such. The P-40, the P-39, the Hurricane (also the Fins) and the Spitfire. The P-38 or the P-51 didn't serve at all (or with numbers less than 10) with the VVS so they are modeled according to their other specs.

I don't really know...just a guess and it seems to pan out.

Even so, only some IX's were equipped so its just as legitimate to have standard gunsights. On the XIV's I think all were equipped with the gyro-sight so I'd be surprised if they didn't do it.

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Sofiyah
09-25-2004, 04:05 PM
"The British did not have a gigantic lend-lease program with the USSR. The US did, hence the large number of US aircraft "

Two thousand spitfires were imported to the ussr, hunndreds of tanks, hurricaines, massive supplies by the royal navy where delivered.

Erm abbout 5 mustangs got there, lol. Yes the americans shipped the sherman tanks and trucks, on royal navy ships.

As for the brits pushed out of the game, yes too right. No brit plane except for a obolete hurricaine, and a non flyable bomber, the blenhiem, the mustang gets a british gun sight, but its called "ameircan", the americans get the mustang even though it was in short numbers, while we get ano obsolete plane. Erm considering the british fought the longest in ww2. I think it was rather unfair to leave them to the last. To top it all the even get a b17 and b25 bombers, all to give the impression the yanks supplied everything etc. No lancasters, no wellingtons , etc. Oleg said when he started il2 he wanted to simulate the forgotton part of the war, well he has forget his first mission. It was good that he did not moddel the spitfire or the mustang till late in the game, but the point is this once he decide to do this, he shoiuld of gone with historical precedent not the american market.

As for the battle of britian, give me a break that is nearly two years away and he is not making a major investment just for the british market, every one knows his true aim is for the ameircans and precendent shows this. The trouble is to do bob justice it will need a 19 gig pc, not many wil have this rig, so i am not too sure how it will work out, to do bob justice it needs massive battles. This is the only way to selll it in the usa. it if its like the il2 series were we just have 20 planes and lots of eye candy, it will bomb. The best simulated experience of bob was rowans, even though it messsed up the crontols abit.

It would of been nice to see oleg go the british route by doing obscure planes sets and theatre, such as the night bombing over germany, burma , north africa etc, or even the biltz over the uk.

92SqnGCJimbo
09-25-2004, 04:20 PM
right calm down guys with the ****gin match.

all sofiya said was that the bob was being made to shove gb out of the market.....

i think this is wrong

but for gods sake leave him alone is there any need to start ****gin countries.

oh and as for stealin colonies
1 america is the only conony that won her independance.
2 it must make u really mad to think somewhere down your family lines your mostly british

now if u wernet country ****gin then this aint for u

if u were just a few thoughts for u to ponder over.

anyway i can always just shoot down over confident americans..... more fun than *****in over someones comments

Aaron_GT
09-26-2004, 03:27 AM
"Erm abbout 5 mustangs got there, lol. Yes the americans shipped the sherman tanks and trucks, on royal navy ships. "

Technical Merchant Navy ships, escorted by the Royal Navy. But anyway about 60% of Merchant seamen were lost on those convoys in total (not 60% per convoy, but the sustained loss rate in personnel). Brave men. If your ship went down you were basically doomed to die in the waters off Murmansk etc. Hence the bravery of those CAM Hurricane pilots - if they weren't picked up in a few minutes they would die of hypothermia.

Aaron_GT
09-26-2004, 03:30 AM
"but the point is this once he decide to do this, he shoiuld of gone with historical precedent not the american market."

Oleg has to make money to feed his family. He also needs to create a revenue stream to fund the development of the Battle of Britain series. This is not likely to be about until the end of 2005 and development of AEP by Oleg is coming to a close this year. This means that AEP and PF have to sustain Oleg's efforts (and with PF, those of Luthier and Starshoy too) for a year before Battle of Britain comes out. That's quite a tall order, and appealing to a broad market to get that revenue makes sense. No US aircraft in AEP, no Battle of Britain in 2005, basically.

Aaron_GT
09-26-2004, 03:32 AM
P.S.

With the B25 we have the UK/USSR versions, not the USA versions as they still have the ventral turrets installed. Almost all ventral turrets were removed in the field in US usage (and the ventral turret was ultimately removed from production with the reintroduction tail turret and waist guns).

Sofiyah
09-26-2004, 05:34 PM
hi

I did not say bob is being made to push the Uk out of the maket but I am saying is being made for the ameircan market not the british market etc

If oleg cared about money in the first place he would never of made il2. There was no market for the game in the west until they were won over his quality. Qyality like that, had never been seen before. Now its going downt the pan. Hve you seen the state of the komets cockpit. YUK

Heavy_Weather
09-27-2004, 08:04 AM
i dont fly the later model 109's much but noticed when flying the K-4 model the other night, when i engaged boost the engine flaked out. am i missing something? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif