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View Full Version : Its official: Turn up your net speed :)



BaldieJr
01-02-2005, 01:47 AM
Sparx has been right all along. I checked, rechecked, and made one final check. You can indeed increase net speed MUCH higher than before without negative effects.

Kudos to Sparx for sticking to his guns. He earned this post.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

WUAF_Badsight
01-02-2005, 04:15 AM
sackcloth & ashes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

clint-ruin
01-02-2005, 04:38 AM
Good stuff. Not everyone would have heavy enough balls for a post like that.

Next on Ubi.com - the terrifying truth behind .. icecream.

http://www.ljplus.ru/img/posledniy_strah/icecr.jpg

AWL_Spinner
01-02-2005, 04:44 AM
Right, well I can admit I got lost in all the technical counter arguments on the other big thread. I am a broadband user, and the default netspeed in my ini file is

[NET]
speed=25000

I'm just going to leave it right there, as I understand it most or all hosts will have their speeds set below that, and the host's speed will over-rule mine.

I trust that won't make the world end.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Was entertaining though, kudos to you all for your dedication to a pleasurable net experience for all.

Cheers, Spinner

Hunter82
01-02-2005, 06:07 AM
Baldie while I agree with you and Sparx of the ability to change the net speed, that never was the question on my end as I have reguarly changed and advised to change.

My issue is players increasing their speed to a higher value than their connection can sustain in upload/download over time. If they do not know their actual max sustainable value they should not change it.

Yes the host can set a max value for connection speed...the default is 5000 and that is what I use

Hunter82
01-02-2005, 06:38 AM
BTW in the other thread people were talking about spawn stutter...here's what I've found so far on that.

ok we all know for the most part to place static AC on the map for all flyable planes available to help reduce this. But when a user selects a skin that comes with the sim (not a downloaded custom skin) other than default the skin is added to the cache (not net cache) at a total of 1024kb in one shot.

Here's a good one for hosts to test. Pick the BF 110 for the test.

Have a user join the game and get airborne while you select the BF 110 on a map that has the version flyable as static AC on the ground. Select the default skin and join ask if there was any stutter experienced, if it's static there should not be any. Now exit to the arming screen and select the wespe skin and join. Ask if there was any stutter (95% of the time there will be) Since the sim adds it in 1 chunk the 1024 is a large hit at once. When added as a skin for download it transfered at the connection rate over time when bandwidth is idle or lower than selected speed needed.

So in a nutshell skins within the sim cause more issues than custom skins when selected other than default. If AC is not added as static that is why the problem occurs with spawn stutter on all AC.

I tried setting this line in the conf.ini

ClearCache=0

while this did not clear the cache and continually added roundels and numbers when it was called again the stutter was experienced. I'm still testing as to whether this will help fix the issue player side but it does not look likley so far.

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-02-2005, 07:07 AM
Baldie,

Kudos man. Takes one hell of a person to make a post like this. I do appreciated that you took the time lastnight to listen to what i was saying. A big ole S~ to you.

Hunter,

The point that i have been trying to get through all along, uppping your netspeed does not put as much stress on your connection as it used to. The upstream is what we are mainly concerned about here as this is the part of everyones link that is typically the most unstable. With varying changes in netspeed, I have yet to see the upstream go over 3kbps. I have tried all values from 900 to 8000 and made multiples tests of all of them. This is well within the range of everyone connections. Just to give you an example, there are a couple of players on Warclouds that are dialup users. With this new setup i am running, they are able to play with 50+ players without an issue. Even with me forcing their speed when they join the server. So none of these setting i am suggesting will go over anyones max connection rates unless they have a really crappy connection. And if that is the case, then they shouldnt be online anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

So just to recap what i had posted in the other thread, I highly suggest to everyone to make the following changes. Netspeed of 8000 is probably the best value, even for 56k Users.

1. Goto your Hyperlobby dir and find the file called hlpro.ini. Open this file and scroll to the bottom and find the following section and make the following changes:

[Forgotten Battles]
joinDelay=20
clientRate=8000 <----- this defaults to '3000', change this to '8000'
;Determine the client source port. Useful when is more that one user behind the NAT router.
;Must be diferent for each user behind the same NAT router
localPort=21000
;This detecting right IP address for systems with more that one network adapters
;Default is 1 (on)
DetectLocalIP = 1
Order=20

2. Next you need to change your game settings incase you join thru direct ip or ASE. This can be done 3 ways.

A: Run il2setup.exe and goto the network tab and change your speed to ISDN.
B: Launch the game, goto Hardware/Network and change your speed to ISDN.
C: Open your conf.ini file and goto the following section and make the following changes:

[NET]
speed=8000 <--- make sure this is set to 8000.


This spawnlag/static plane issues is the next thing i am going to look at extensivly. Here is what I think is another issue we are seeing with this:

Oleg himself said that we need more ram to play now. 1.2 - 1.5 times more and i think this is where most people are running into the problems. Before PF, we loaded static planes on our maps and it **** near removed all spawn lag. Using the exact same maps in PF did not yeild this same result. I have noticed that players with 512 or less ram are suffering worse then others. It would seem that even though we are loading the statics on the maps, that their system is still dumping the textures to the pagefile. IE: do not have enough physical ram to load all these static planes, so their system is now using the pagefile. With players that have 1 gig of ram, it seems like the same thing is happening. What i am noticing so far when i play, the only time i notice the spawn lag is when someone respawns in a bomber. I believe this is due to the same problem. 1 gig of ram is enought to hold all the fighters statics, but not enough to hold the bombes as well.

I have not done alot of testing on this as of yet, so i am running on theorys right now. You finding is pretty interesting though. Would have never thought that would be and issue. It makes sense though. If we preload the statics with default skins, and someone uses a skin that come with the game other then the default, then our systems need to read from the skin from teh disk when the player spawns. This is the evil thing that causes the spawn lag http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. Now, add in teh factor that maybe you do not have much ram left when this person spawns in a non-default skin, and your system has to write to the pagefile to cache the default skin, then read from the disk to load then other skin. Double whammy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. As i said, need to do some more testing.

One last time i would like to S~ Baldie for his time in this.

SPaRX

Vortex_79
01-02-2005, 07:07 AM
~S~

Sprax...

Could I humbly request that you advise us what settings you would like us now to change as to quote AWL_Spinner...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Right, well I can admit I got lost in all the technical counter arguments on the other big thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know that you can now change some of 'our' settings when we join your server, but is there anything in the HL .ini or IL2 .ini files that you would like us to change?

Regards

_79_Vortex

Edit... Disregard as I have just seen that you and I have posted at the same time with what I was requesting! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
01-02-2005, 07:12 AM
Sparx . . . what advice would you have for smaller coop & DF rooms users & hosts ?

is setting the same netspeed of any use for someone joining/hosting a 10 person coop/DF room ?

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-02-2005, 07:30 AM
Badsight,

Its not really a matter for smaller rooms. The 28.8 speed should be just fine up to 30 players or so. This is up to the admin to figure out based on their avaible BW. I would assume that at any given time that most of your players can pull 3k/sec and use that to determine how many players you can host. So my suggestion for the host would be to set their netspeed to 3000 and i would still suggest that the players set their ini's as i have outlined above.

SPaRX

AWL_Spinner
01-02-2005, 07:47 AM
Ok, have made changes to my files as suggested and will watch online performance with interest to see if I notice any difference.

Will hop onto Warclouds at some point in the next couple of days, always been a great server. Thanks guys.

Cheers, Spinner

Hunter82
01-02-2005, 08:01 AM
On the server side the cache is not available and adds it to ram when each player selects a skin...just tested it in DS on my lan. Each time a skin even the default is added memory climbs the 2mb needed and is not released even on multiple calls from the same user for the same AC/Skin.


2GB is needed now for using PF imo just like the old 1024...the memory needed by the maps is too great now. Positional data and AC start the climb even greater.

When PF starts in a system with 1GB of ram the start up when joining is greaterthan 1GB and data is paged roughly over 5-15 mins dependant on how fast it's needed.

Hunter82
01-02-2005, 08:03 AM
BTW I'd recommend 2 1GB sticks since alot of MB have issues using all 4 slots in performance apps like games

PF_Coastie
01-02-2005, 08:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunter82:
BTW I'd recommend 2 1GB sticks since alot of MB have issues using all 4 slots in performance apps like games <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Hunter, Ya having a big sale? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Honestly, I can deal with the respawn stutters. It is annoying at worst. It rears its ugly head at very inoppurtune times on occassion, like just as you get ready to squeeze the trigger on a bogie, but I can live with it.

By the way Baldie, Props to you man! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
01-02-2005, 08:30 AM
would limitin the planes help?
ie take out the ones no one flies (g6, spitv,yak7 etc)

Hunter82
01-02-2005, 08:36 AM
Lower amounts of flyables on maps always helps. non-flyables do not add to the problem unless a user has a ram issue as it increases the load needed. Usually each AC including flyable requires 2-3mb of ram on top of map etc.

so in theory on the user end 50 AC = 100- 150 mb of additional ram. As each person spawns this requires and additional 2-3mbs per user.

If a server runs the gc.cmd on a tighter variant than the 3600000 default it could possibly help the ram overhead needed on lower memory system requirements. I haven't tested it yet though...only server side data..not sure if it cleans data for client.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
would limitin the planes help?
ie take out the ones no one flies (g6, spitv,yak7 etc) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hunter82
01-02-2005, 08:37 AM
lol I don't even have 2 gigs in my system yet. I tested it using the memory from my server and it helps especially on maps with alot of trees (pacific), AC, or ground objects.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunter82:
BTW I'd recommend 2 1GB sticks since alot of MB have issues using all 4 slots in performance apps like games <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Hunter, Ya having a big sale? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Honestly, I can deal with the respawn stutters. It is annoying at worst. It rears its ugly head at very inoppurtune times on occassion, like just as you get ready to squeeze the trigger on a bogie, but I can live with it.

By the way Baldie, Props to you man! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hunter82
01-02-2005, 08:39 AM
BTW if you guys have an add on USB port that came with your systems test the track ir on those. It fixed my stick problems for me because of bypassing the Nviida header

Wolf-Strike
01-02-2005, 09:06 AM
Wow great news here.Its great that we are agreeing on what sparxs has been saying all long.Now we can move on and work together.

I wanted to ask,why doesnt Oleg have his online programmers to make it so that the spawning plane adds a small amount of info over time until his skin is fully loaded,and then his plane fully spawns.

BaldieJr
01-02-2005, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunter82:
Baldie while I agree with you and Sparx of the ability to change the net speed, that never was the question on my end as I have reguarly changed and advised to change.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thing is, bandwidth usage with 35 players is within the reach of a 56k modem when using netspeed of 8k (dude, thats LAN settings) . I've seen it myself. The game is only sending/recieving a fraction of the bandwidth that it once did.

So with the changes to the netcode, I'm wondering how the new in-game voice comms work when using the higer-quality codec http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HelSqnProtos
01-02-2005, 02:17 PM
Terrific discussion, highly educational and informative. I shall be starting a Dedicated Server for my Squadron shortly and am delighted to have some answers. Also I would like to propose something that other games have which is a dedicated redirect. I think it behooves Ubi or even 1C to set up a dedicated redirect where player skins could be uploaded and then the community as a whole could download from there. This would alieviate many of the current problems and help with the creative side of the game. Lord know I would love to fly with custom skins and I am sure most others would as well.

Great Post and Sparx great Job. I was with you from the start on this one. Hunter fantastic research on the ram requirements. I look forward to hearing the final assessment. If we need 2 gigs then we need 2 gigs. AT LEAST WE KNOW.

Great job all!

FRAGAL
01-02-2005, 06:50 PM
honestly i'vebeen running with sparx's settings the last week and i've had no problems apart from P1ngu sayin i was warping a bit in a coop but apart from that neg probs

DarkCanuck420
01-02-2005, 10:19 PM
i was waiting for a short response to the turning of ye olde netspeed. ok now i will change it. i always forget to increase my net settings from 28k to cable.
question: could i just set the speed to 999999
like you can do with other games and fps_max 99999 and the server will automatically out the fps to its own limits? or will my modem catch fire? so is the 8000 for everyone, can we increase it because the servers will decrease it, or is there a specific value for each user?

VBF-83_Hawk
01-02-2005, 11:24 PM
This goes to prove that some guys here are right and some others are pure ******!

WTFG Sparx!

Hunter82
01-03-2005, 07:17 AM
??????????? Care to explain? PM me

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VBF-83_Hawk:
This goes to prove that some guys here are right and some others are pure ******!

WTFG Sparx! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

VBF-83_Hawk
01-03-2005, 07:30 AM
Not directed at you if thats what ya mean Hunter. I am refering to some other post where books are wrong, the pilots lied and test data is incomplete but yet flight sim designers are always right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Sparx stood his ground. Although this was a computer issue and not a flight model issue, the result was the same.
Cheers!

AFJ_Locust
01-03-2005, 09:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
Right, well I can admit I got lost in all the technical counter arguments on the other big thread. I am a broadband user, and the default netspeed in my ini file is

[NET]
speed=25000

I'm just going to leave it right there, as I understand it most or all hosts will have their speeds set below that, and the host's speed will over-rule mine.

I trust that won't make the world end.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Was entertaining though, kudos to you all for your dedication to a pleasurable net experience for all.

Cheers, Spinner <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should lower that to say 5000 or 8000

AFJ_Locust
01-03-2005, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
Badsight,

Its not really a matter for smaller rooms. The 28.8 speed should be just fine up to 30 players or so. This is up to the admin to figure out based on their avaible BW. I would assume that at any given time that most of your players can pull 3k/sec and use that to determine how many players you can host. So my suggestion for the host would be to set their netspeed to 3000 and i would still suggest that the players set their ini's as i have outlined above.

SPaRX <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sparx your saying that Hosts should use 3000 & Clients use 8000 ?

Supr
01-03-2005, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AFJ_Locust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
Right, well I can admit I got lost in all the technical counter arguments on the other big thread. I am a broadband user, and the default netspeed in my ini file is

[NET]
speed=25000

I'm just going to leave it right there, as I understand it most or all hosts will have their speeds set below that, and the host's speed will over-rule mine.

I trust that won't make the world end.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Was entertaining though, kudos to you all for your dedication to a pleasurable net experience for all.

Cheers, Spinner <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should lower that to say 5000 or 8000 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lower it? didn't the title of this thread say to raise it? Now that's not confusing, is it? Why cant it ever be simple?

BTW, mine defaulted to 10K

crazyivan1970
01-03-2005, 10:41 AM
Allrighty then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-03-2005, 01:53 PM
My suggestion is to change your netspeed to 8000 in both il2s ini and Hyperlobbies ini and let the server admins take care of setting the max on their server. See my previous posts on how to do this. 8000 is ISDN via il2setup.exe or in game menus. Remember though, if you do not make the changes in hlpro.ini, it does not matter what you set IL2 at. Hyperlobby will override that.

SPaRX