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volkware.xyz
01-17-2005, 11:17 PM
According to this link...

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ho229.html

... the 229 had a top speed about 100 km/h above that of the Me-262. Ingame I can testify to the fact that the 229 certainly feels much *slower* than the 262.

Is my impression wrong? Are those statistics correct? Is the 229 properly represented speed-wise?

Of course I realize this is simply a single web page of stats. ... just wondering all the same.

(P.S.: the jet dive-bomber I`ve referred to in other posts is a Henschel Hs-132. Just a notation.)

p1ngu666
01-17-2005, 11:27 PM
slower acceloration?
its actully the best plane in the game, or was

LEXX_Luthor
01-18-2005, 12:01 AM
Yes, the impression is wrong. It takes alot of time, but The Goth gets up to very high speeds.

Last I tested--before PF--the Goth and He~162 were the fastest Buck Rogers planes in the sim, not counting the rocket Me~163. At high altitude, the Goth ruled the sky...

overall performance rating, best listed first...

JETS
Go~229
He~162
Me~262
YP~80....lowest performing jet in FB at high altitudes

Daiichidoku
01-18-2005, 01:58 AM
The Goth is only slightly slower top speed than the 162

But otherwise, the Goth is THE best type in FB, bar none

Willey
01-18-2005, 04:40 AM
It still lacks bombs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

And it could need some more elevator. It's close to impossible to land it correctly - with flaps and main gear FIRST / 3 point. With a certain speed it is possible, but you'll have the stick at the rear border and no possibility to correct if you sink too quickly. One should be able to pull up - though it's close to stall which is dangerous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p1ngu666
01-18-2005, 07:09 AM
its easy to snap wings init, such good elivator at speed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

go229 was fastest i thought http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

CKY_86
01-18-2005, 07:17 AM
as an addition to bombs it should also have 4 cannon armament

http://img131.exs.cx/img131/8905/bf110sig1yb.jpg

lbhskier37
01-18-2005, 07:39 AM
I think bombs was a mistake in books. Where would it put bombs? That big front tire takes up the whole bottom of the plane.

Willey
01-18-2005, 07:40 AM
Yeah, it has a crazy elevator at high speeds, but at low speeds it's nearly ineffective.

Planned armament was 2 MK 103 and 2x 250/500/1000kg bombs. There were also tests with Dual MK 108s (90rpg) instead of the 103. They had a special arrangement with curved ammo belts. I think this made some problems... but it was planned - the whole plane was planned, so why not?

p1ngu666
01-18-2005, 07:49 AM
mk108 would make it really uber...
bombs for fast jabbo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif, they where external?

Daiichidoku
01-18-2005, 02:33 PM
OMG all you guys need to put some hours in the Goth....

the elevators are super effective
at low speed the only monoplanes outturning the Goth are the Oscars, and A6M2s to M3s
at high speed, the Goth has a natural pitch up tendency and will turn for you....dont be so d a m n ham-fisted

As long as you dont come in too hot, landing the Goth is super easy and actually has a VERY short landing roll

As for the guns, the Mk103 are devastating!
When you fly the Goth, you should only EVER need .5 sec burst, no more...if you have to use more than 2 visible bursts of gunsmoke, you should never have taken the shot in the first place!
Most of my kills in the Goth take TWO or maybe FOUR rounds of amo (that is, I only see the smoke once, or twice from each gun)

Once you learn the Goth, you will rarely, if ever snap a wing...this goes hand in hand with learning how no tto black out in it either

If you get into a spin in the Goth, you,ve pushed too far and you need more learnin'....if you do anyhow, spin recovery is easy and always works within 1000m



AFAIC, he only limitations of flying the Goth is; DOnt do headons, your guns slow ROF will not do any good, and the pilot very vulnerable to fire in his forward pit...thats it


I will 1vs1 anyone in my Goth...they can fly whatever (monoplane, hehehe!) plane they want, my Goth will bett them everytime!

When you learn how to fly the Goth, NOTHING can stand in your way...the only hope for the enemy is to outnumbr you badly AND catch you at low speed and low alt

CKY_86
01-18-2005, 02:44 PM
its a good thing it didnt enter operational service then

http://img131.exs.cx/img131/8905/bf110sig1yb.jpg

Willey
01-18-2005, 03:27 PM
Bombs would have been mounted external below the engines, right next to the front gear.

Yeah, it's easy to land and it has a slow landing speed. But it will come down front wheel first which is historically incorrect. It was hard to land because it had to be landed either main wheels first or 3 point, which left just a small margin to a stall. In FB, we can't stall, because the elevators aren't enough at 120-150km/h. 120 is the speed for 3 point landig with flaps. There you'll have the stick fully back, unable to pull more. In the real plane you could have done that, but with a stall very imminent, so it would need a very gentle pull. That's one of it's well known disadvantages next to the bad yaw stability.
Front/tail wheels are never as tough as main wheels. In FB, they can't break which makes landing the Go quite easy.

volkware.xyz
01-18-2005, 07:31 PM
Well this is bizarre.

I always found the 262 and the 162 accelerated much more quickly, and that my 229 seemed to take ages to exceed a general cruise of 550 kmh, whereas the 262 very quickly achieved that speed and better. Also, I found getting into a spin with a 229 is doomsday... unrecoverable. I assumed the lack of conventional rudder to be the culprit there.

Maybe I need the updates from PF - which is not yet part of my install - to experience that of which you liars speak (grin).

Hmmm.

Btw, I have a book (Secret Weapons Of The Luftwaffe) that states the 229 was to have internal weapon systems - they must have meant bomb loads.

LEXX_Luthor
01-18-2005, 07:44 PM
Yes, The Goth has very slow acceleration, but at high altitudes is the fastest jet in the sim (need to check against He162 though, I forgot).

ElAurens
01-18-2005, 10:11 PM
What!?! No shields or photon torpedos?

Inconceivable...



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

WUAF_Badsight
01-18-2005, 10:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
mk108 would make it really uber... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
the Mk103 is far & away the best A2A cannon in FB besides the Bk3.7

Mk108s would be a massive step backwards

as for bombs , Oleg told Gibbage (IIRC) that the Gotha probably wouldnt have gotten airborn with bombs

hobnail
01-19-2005, 04:11 AM
Mk213C would've made it uber...

robban75
01-19-2005, 04:37 AM
Most planes take a fair amount of time reaching their topspeeds(with the exception of the La-7 and I-185). Patients is a virtue! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p1ngu666
01-19-2005, 04:44 AM
mk103 has slow rof, making it worse for fighter combat

dunno what rof of 103 is, but 108 is 10ish, so a 4 108 would spit out 40 mk108 shells a second http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

i mean ****, with that u could start a quorry, or destroy a small town

Daiichidoku
01-19-2005, 02:02 PM
once you start to get kills with 2-4 rounds of mk 103, you will never want to sully the goth with mk 108s...

the accel is actually not bad at all....one must keep the nose down, and resist climbing until higher sppeds are reached...and DONT let it overheat for too long!...with time, you will know what speeds and throttle settings keep engines cool...and you will also get it up to those speeds quicker than you thought

goth has excellent E retention

the various patches have made no diff in the goth, spins have always been easy to recover from, with the right teq.

landing are easy as pie, make sure the airbrake is out, and you CAN even land rear wheels first, tho 3 pointers prevail

minimal use of rudder is required in all flight regimes...good thing too, cuz it does suck!

despite the vulerability of the pilot, and the shared trait of FB jet to flame from even single 303 hits, otherwise the airframe take a lot of punishment, too


dont let those flaps jam on you!

volkware.xyz
01-19-2005, 03:02 PM
Torpedoes & shields... heh heh heh. A tractor beam or two would be nice when I`m silly enough to fly against my flight leader "who has no special aptitude" too... . The aft shields on the I-16s are also a little overmodelled.

.

Hmmm. Some questions for you 229 people then:

1. I usually set my throttle to 84%. Any higher and I find I have maybe 20 seconds before the engines overheat. What`s safe? Am I missing out on some thrust?

2. I noticed the 229 seems to be able to deploy its flaps when travelling at faster speeds than other aircraft (before they jam). What is the safe threshold?

p1ngu666
01-19-2005, 06:17 PM
once u going fast enuff, u can leave it on full power without issues, 500kph?

u can use combat flaps at any speed, on any aircraft

daii, yeah the mk103 are effective, IF u hit, low rof goes against that...

mk108 would be better in some situations though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

volkware.xyz
01-19-2005, 07:52 PM
Really?

Well, aren`t I the bloody idiot... I`ll try that right away! Thanks! It makes sense too (faster, more intense airflow, better heat dissipation).

WUAF_Badsight
01-19-2005, 09:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
once you start to get kills with 2-4 rounds of mk 103, you will never want to sully the goth with mk 108s... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Daiichidoku knows . . . .

volkware.xyz
01-19-2005, 11:20 PM
Phhh - I feel like a fool. All this time and I never dared to take these jet throttles up beyond 84%... wow... .

Thanks heaps for the tips. Good God I love that 229! What an eminently graceful glide.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to fly one, Oleg & crew!

Daiichidoku
01-20-2005, 01:42 AM
79% or less always cools engines eventually

approx 88% 350-400kph

94% at 470+ kph IAS always stays cool...also no tell-tale smoke, and better fuel economy

100% never overheats at over 620kph IAS, can go all day like this

once higher speeds reached, throttle can be reduced provided no high AoA manuvers and retain speed and even continue accel

prolonged high speed + moderate throttle = a deeper threshold before overheat when throttle is raised or maxed during subsequent low speed manuvers...."save" your coolness for when you need it...just like prop heat mgt, but give much wider range

combat flaps WILL jam if pressed...avoid any flap use over 500 kph IAS, goth dont need em, and will only lead to blkout and wing snap...combat flaps at less than 450IAS, take off less than 200...get speed back beyond that and raise flaps quickly, they will jam in take off before u know it

approaching 200IAS NEVER yaw...you will spin...recoverable, but enemy can extend and you are a quacker...release control and let gravity and goth natural pitch up to let the nose point to hell, then hold it for speed build up...even if under overheat, with 2000+m alt 100% will get you tons o speed and you will be 600+ in no time, overheat will go away

always show ur profile to closing enemies....dont give em a barn door...

Mk108s would REDUCE kill effectivness of Goth...believe me, Mk 103s suit it PERFECTLY..as I said, if you have to use more than .5 sec of burst, you shouldnt have taken the shot in the first place...goth will turn inside 98% of monoplanes and climb/close smoothly and rapidly, making gunnery easier than "staying inside the bowl"

yanking the stick even as low as 500 IAS can snap wings...gentle pulls at 800+ can snap wings...find your zone....an abrupt pos G yank at 800+ can find instant, total explosion, never mind wing snap

10 kills/sortie online DF several times...5-6 minimum...fuel more of a factor than anything in keeping 10 kill maximal...

lather, rinse, and repeat



I SO need a jet server in HL...only Trollville has it regularly, but Trollville sucks, WAY too many objects, flak, and EVERYone gets the boot, eventually...such a waste, I know the two (or is it three?) Trollville servers would be EXcellent without the insane clutter


Funny how so many ppl refer to the Goth as a "rocket"...its a JET! get it right!

BTW, if you have heard, or are ever told "jets casue lag" its total BS!...only the Me 163 Komet ever caused lag, and has been fixed...a vicious rumor spead by (likely La7, 84C, 109K4, Spit and Pony jocks) those who who cant deal with jets...109Zs and 84Cs (while not causing actual lag) are actually culprits that can drop frame rates on lower end machines

Daiichidoku
01-20-2005, 01:44 AM
aint saying no more, already gave away too much...you go figure out the rest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif fer yourselves, hehe

Daiichidoku
01-20-2005, 01:48 AM
dunno what I like killing more in Goths, fools who try to DF it in Spits, Yaks and La's, or the ppl who get killed by it and then jump into 262s, 162s and P 80s thinking those types are in the same league as Goth, heheeh

WUAF_Badsight
01-20-2005, 01:50 AM
man can you blab or what http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Daiichidoku
01-20-2005, 04:35 AM
yea, when Ive been up without sleep for about 36 hours, lol

volkware.xyz
01-20-2005, 11:50 AM
Heh heh - roger all that.