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mynameisroland
05-22-2006, 07:22 AM
In IL2 the Hurricane seems to be a bit of a truck. I love flying it, it has a great gunsight and it is very satisfying to score kills against Bf 109 F2s and F4s when you know you really shouldnt stand a chance.

I always thought that the turning circle and the all round performance was off for this aircraft. It is very well documented from British sources that the Hurricane I was a better turner than the Spitfire I. It should also possess a genteler stall and be a better gunnery platform. In IL2 I feel it was given rough treatment during the FM stage and it has been overlooked ever since.

In reality it was a good dogfighter, Im not saying it was the best or that it should own the Spitfire or the Bf 109 but I really hope that it gets given a massive revamp in BoB because it was a very good fighter in the limited timespan where it was a frontline mainstay.

mynameisroland
05-22-2006, 07:22 AM
In IL2 the Hurricane seems to be a bit of a truck. I love flying it, it has a great gunsight and it is very satisfying to score kills against Bf 109 F2s and F4s when you know you really shouldnt stand a chance.

I always thought that the turning circle and the all round performance was off for this aircraft. It is very well documented from British sources that the Hurricane I was a better turner than the Spitfire I. It should also possess a genteler stall and be a better gunnery platform. In IL2 I feel it was given rough treatment during the FM stage and it has been overlooked ever since.

In reality it was a good dogfighter, Im not saying it was the best or that it should own the Spitfire or the Bf 109 but I really hope that it gets given a massive revamp in BoB because it was a very good fighter in the limited timespan where it was a frontline mainstay.

Xiolablu3
05-22-2006, 08:07 AM
I think actually that the stall is well done in IL2 right now.

It wasnt as forgiving as the SPit in this respect and would give no warning, much like in the game. One minute its turning fine at 230k in a tight circle, next minute - woomf as you hit 220k it will drop a wing and spin. Takes some practise to fly as I think every veteran Hurricane pilot learns to keep an eye on his airspeed when he gets into low alt tnb fights.

But - the British Hurricane does feel a little underdone, the Russian field mod seems to fly much better, not sure why. I can shoot down 109F2's/F4's very well with it and its not just the better guns. I am sure plenty here have their 'theories' on why it does fly better tho. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

mynameisroland
05-22-2006, 08:43 AM
Most of the sources I have read claim the Hurricane to be the more benign handling of the two. Its extra wing area and thicker chord had to have some beneficial trade offs. As it is now in game i find it is a better fighter at 300/350 kmh than at 250kmh where the Bf 109 tends to be superior. Im off to check IL2 compare which Im sure shows that the Bf 109 F4 and the Spitfire V outturn the Hurri in game. I may be wrong tho!

Xiolablu3
05-22-2006, 09:17 AM
I totally agree about the 109 being superior at slower speeds. Especially in turning circles, many times I get low and slow and have thought 'ahh but I can outturn him!' only to find he turns better at around 230-250k and we end up going round and round at stall speed with him gaining on me. (he is possibly using full flaps here) There is no escape from that situation in a Britsh Hurricane (Mk1 or MkIIb), if you run he has got you.

Hurricane should outurn him at slow speeds, I think.

My comments about the Hurricane awkward stall come from a WW2 veteran talking, explaining how the Hurricane flew compared to the Spitfire.

JG4_Helofly
05-22-2006, 09:59 AM
I agree, the hurrican seems to be a bit worse than in RL in some points. The only question is: what kind of turning do you mean? Instantaneous or sustained turn? The performance of the I.turn depends on the wing loading. S.turning depends on the combination of wing loading and power loading. How powerfull was the engine of the hurrican?

Friendly_flyer
05-22-2006, 02:38 PM
The Hurricane Mk.I that we have in the game is the Finnish version, bought pre-war and fighting on against progressively better opponents for years. They flew with a bit lower engine pressure that their British counterparts, thus they are a tad slower and don't climb as well. Then again, a lot of worn, patched Hurribirds with halfway burned out Merlins flew during BoB, so the Hurricane we have are probably not far off the actual performance of some RAF planes.

And it€s my favourite ride too.

FritzGryphon
05-22-2006, 02:49 PM
The Russians didn't like it, because it was a truck.

Main problem it is significantly heavier than the Spitfire, with the same power. All performance would suffer.

It only has a small turn radius because it's slow and with fat wings. The actual sustained turn rate is no better than a 109F. If it is ever described as being a good turner, it is in comaprison to 109E.

It's probably why the Hurricane was tasked with attacking bombers during the BoB, and then was eventually phased out in favor of the Spitfire.

Xiolablu3
05-22-2006, 04:49 PM
WHat exactly is a 'truck'?

The Hurri was a biplane with the top wing removed (Hawker Fury), so it was never going to be a great performer when compared to the throughroughbreds like the 109 or Spitfire.

However I am sure it should turn tighter than the 109, every report I have read comparing the 2 say that the Hurricane 'easily outurns the 109E'

Shouldnt the 109E actually have a better turning circle than the 109F?

'This is itself a factor to be considered in this comparison was the captured Bf109 that the British tested. They did not have an oxygen bottle for their captured Bf109, so tested it at only low to medium altitudes, where they thought combat would take place anyway. At these altitudes the result was indeed that both the Spitfire and Hurricane could out-turn the Bf109, and this was reported to the squadrons, whose pilots would have reacted in combat according to this perceived strength. Later, well after the Battle was over, testing at higher, "combat" altitudes showed the opposite to be true at these heights. Yet pilots in the Battle had consistently confirmed what the initial testing had told them, and claimed they were able to out-turn the German machine at all altitudes'

Quote from a random website, whther its true I dont know, just searched with google.

Sintubin
05-22-2006, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat exactly is a 'truck'?

The Hurri was a biplane with the top wing removed (Hawker Fury), so it was never going to be a great performer when compared to the throughroughbreds like the 109 or Spitfire.

However I am sure if should better than the 109, every report I have read comparing the 2 say that the Hurricane 'easily outurns the 109E'

Shouldnt the 109E actually have a better turning circle than the 109F?

'This is itself a factor to be considered in this comparison was the captured Bf109 that the British tested. They did not have an oxygen bottle for their captured Bf109, so tested it at only low to medium altitudes, where they thought combat would take place anyway. At these altitudes the result was indeed that both the Spitfire and Hurricane could out-turn the Bf109, and this was reported to the squadrons, whose pilots would have reacted in combat according to this perceived strength. Later, well after the Battle was over, testing at higher, "combat" altitudes showed the opposite to be true at these heights. Yet pilots in the Battle had consistently confirmed what the initial testing had told them, and claimed they were able to out-turn the German machine at all altitudes'

Quote from a random website, whther its true I dont know, just searched with google. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

VS Emil in turn it was good thats about al the hurricane had vs bf 109E

The bf 109 was bether in climb , Dive , Guns

Hurricane pilots was forbiddend to go headon vs Emils tho 20mm wing guns

You asked yourself hmm why cant i outturn bf 109 in IL-2FB-EAP-PF

You answer you question your self in turn vs EMIL was bether

Not vs Friedrich,Gustaf

I flew hurrican vs bf 109 before in dogfight vs G-2 hmm no problemmo



Friedrich out !

VW-IceFire
05-22-2006, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat exactly is a 'truck'?

The Hurri was a biplane with the top wing removed (Hawker Fury), so it was never going to be a great performer when compared to the throughroughbreds like the 109 or Spitfire.

However I am sure it should turn tighter than the 109, every report I have read comparing the 2 say that the Hurricane 'easily outurns the 109E'

Shouldnt the 109E actually have a better turning circle than the 109F?

'This is itself a factor to be considered in this comparison was the captured Bf109 that the British tested. They did not have an oxygen bottle for their captured Bf109, so tested it at only low to medium altitudes, where they thought combat would take place anyway. At these altitudes the result was indeed that both the Spitfire and Hurricane could out-turn the Bf109, and this was reported to the squadrons, whose pilots would have reacted in combat according to this perceived strength. Later, well after the Battle was over, testing at higher, "combat" altitudes showed the opposite to be true at these heights. Yet pilots in the Battle had consistently confirmed what the initial testing had told them, and claimed they were able to out-turn the German machine at all altitudes'

Quote from a random website, whther its true I dont know, just searched with google. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The 109F was by far the best turner of the 109s...although possibly the early G's were pretty good at it too. The 109E was not as good in the turn...the 109E infact should generally be worse in the turn than both Hurricane and Spitfire. The Hurricane is supposed to be somewhere in the neighborhood of the Wildcat (which was better than Spitfire and 109 in the turn) apparently.

I used to think the Hurricane was undermodeled but I think in recent patches its gotten better (4.01 and onwards). Its still is a little more gentle now which is helpful. I haven't flown the Mark I in a while but the Mark II I've had quite a bit of success with and its a good fighter in the right hands. I think it may end up being a bit better when its FM is given a more careful treatment in SoW: BOB. Mind you...we'll be starting with just the Mark I. I wonder how long it'll take to get the Merlin XX Mark II with the negative G cutout fixed.