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View Full Version : Hundreds of great new P51 pilot reports/accounts on Spitfireperformance :)



Xiolablu3
07-25-2006, 02:17 PM
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports.html

Really interesting stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

loads and loads of pilot reports. Must have been a lot of work to scan them all.

Thanks Mike http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xiolablu3
07-25-2006, 02:17 PM
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports.html

Really interesting stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

loads and loads of pilot reports. Must have been a lot of work to scan them all.

Thanks Mike http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F19_Olli72
07-25-2006, 02:30 PM
Good stuff, thanks for the link.

RxMan
07-25-2006, 02:38 PM
Another good site I came across.

http://prodocs.netfirms.com/

ploughman
07-25-2006, 03:08 PM
Nice. 19th March, 1945 (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/78-landers-19march45.jpg) 125 E/A, Fw190s...flown by experienced pilots. Quite a gaggle even this late on.

Is this the son (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/361-chennault-12sept44.jpg) of you know who?

GBrutus
07-25-2006, 03:14 PM
Nice link, thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

MrMojok
07-25-2006, 05:29 PM
Someone please forward the parts named "DIVE" and "TURN" to Oleg!

Brain32
07-25-2006, 05:36 PM
Why don't you do it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
PF@1C.RU
Good luck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Not that I see it much different in game, just many guys trying to win t3h war by themselfs as usual. If you want to look at something http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif look at the boost ratings they used http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

leitmotiv
07-25-2006, 05:58 PM
That you very much, Xiolablu3.

luftluuver
07-25-2006, 06:08 PM
Dispite the hate for Mike and his site some have, he does a great service to the flight sim community and those interested in WW2 aviation.

A big THANK YOU Mike for the time, effert and money you spend to give this info to us. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Stackhouse25th
07-25-2006, 06:28 PM
600mph dives? jesus

SkyChimp
07-25-2006, 07:11 PM
The scale of that website is staggering. Many thanks to Mike Williams who not only collects these documents, but puts them out there for public use at his expense. A true benefactor to all those who are interested in this stuff.

brimigus
07-25-2006, 08:48 PM
Great link.As I read the reports I can easily see the the encounter unfolding in my head. Many times in Pacific Fighers the planes have done the exact same thing both ofline and online.

Slickun
07-25-2006, 09:37 PM
Fantastic, fantastic reading.

Thanks to Mike.

And yeah, how 'bout those boost stories?

TC_Stele
07-26-2006, 01:43 AM
That's a neat find.

Slightly OT, what is the proper format guideline for filling out those reports?

snooper2
07-26-2006, 01:52 AM
Many hours of digging ahead. Great. Thanks for the direction and thanks to the people who put this massive detail together.
regards snooper.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WWMaxGunz
07-26-2006, 02:49 AM
Take those IAS dive speeds with a big dose of salt. Pitot tube guages read high with high
speeds. Error begins small even before .6 mach. Guage reads 650mph but that is not the
airspeed.

In his talk to the Finns, Gunther Rall notes flying US fighters (in his role as opfor to
train new LW pilots) in dives to 1400kph which is well over mach 1 at sea level.

If I only ever saw houses painted white does tha mean all houses are painted white?
When you read only accounts of success then does that mean just what? It proves only that
there were successes.

Please just take it easy with those. What Oleg has is full NACA test data with conditions
of the tests noted. Repeatable tests. All sent in to him years ago.

Lucius_Esox
07-26-2006, 03:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/78-landers-19march45.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me for being dumb, whats a tail warning system?

tomtheyak
07-26-2006, 03:41 AM
Lucius -

Late war Mustangs and Lightnings (and I presume Jugs, but I have only personally seen photos of the former with the anenna in evidence) were fitted with AN/APS-11 (IIRC) a rudimentary form of tail warning radar which produced an audible tone or buzz when an aircraft was positioned up to 2 miles (i think) behind the equippede a/c.

Pretty neat huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BBB_Hyperion
07-26-2006, 03:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/78-landers-19march45.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me for being dumb, whats a tail warning system? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Primitive radar equipment showing an alert when a plane approachin in limited scan sector.

Lucius_Esox
07-26-2006, 04:18 AM
Thx lads. I didn't know that sort of thing existed on fighters,,,, very cool indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Didn't the Raf have this on their fighters in Bob http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

luftluuver
07-26-2006, 04:35 AM
From what I have read, most of the time it was turned off &gt; too many false alerts, as in a friendly could set it off.

Nothing beats the ol' MkII eyeball.

jermin122
07-26-2006, 04:47 AM
I'm eager to see Hartmann's report after reading them.

Bearcat99
07-26-2006, 06:14 AM
Can ypou imagine the uiproar in here if later planes that historically had that feature were given it ....

Slickun
07-26-2006, 06:17 AM
P-51's were dove at speeds of 605 TAS and recovered.

Abbuzze
07-26-2006, 06:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slickun:
P-51's were dove at speeds of 605 TAS and recovered. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats seems impressive, but I think most planes reached this range of speed. Even a light plane with a weaker engine like the 109F reached 563mph TAS.

The question is the machnumber!

KG26_Alpha
07-26-2006, 07:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Can ypou imagine the uiproar in here if later planes that historically had that feature were given it .... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why yes, as the Luftwaffe had friend or foe recognition system long before allieds.

horseback
07-26-2006, 07:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
Thx lads. I didn't know that sort of thing existed on fighters,,,, very cool indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Didn't the Raf have this on their fighters in Bob http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not available in 1940. I believe that the marketing department was unhappy with the original box art, which led to some delays.

As regards IFF systems, I seem to recall the RAF memoirs referring to it very early in the war; ground controllers would tell the pilots of an a/c to "flash your instrument" in order to ID that particular friendly on the scope and provide him with a useful vector. I'm guessing very late 1940 to 1941; I seem to recall Tuck's bio referring to it, and he was a PoW by February 1942.

cheers

horseback

stathem
07-26-2006, 07:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
Thx lads. I didn't know that sort of thing existed on fighters,,,, very cool indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Didn't the Raf have this on their fighters in Bob http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not available in 1940. I believe that the marketing department was unhappy with the original box art, which led to some delays. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I heard that the MoD wanted to release it with BoontyBox but the developers said no.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
As regards IFF systems, I seem to recall the RAF memoirs referring to it very early in the war; ground controllers would tell the pilots of an a/c to "flash your instrument" in order to ID that particular friendly on the scope and provide him with a useful vector. I'm guessing very late 1940 to 1941; I seem to recall Tuck's bio referring to it, and he was a PoW by February 1942.

cheers

horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had a hard time accepting the statement about LW IFF too, so I did a quick google and apparantly it's true:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Challenge and response. In World War II, as radar was emerging, Allied aviators and ground controllers soon became aware of a shortcoming in the existing electronic identification system; radar could only recognize that a plane was in the sky, but could not differentiate friendly planes from those of the Axis. The Germans were the first to develop a crude IFF system, which required pilots to roll their planes in midflight as a means of creating a distinctive radar blip that would identify them as Luftwaffe craft to radar operators. The Allies developed their own active systems: first Mk I in 1940, and later the much more effective Mk III, which greatly enhanced identification technology by adding a separate transmitter that tuned through radar bands even as the receiver in the air did the same. Mk III also was made to respond to as many as six different codes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

from Here (http://www.espionageinfo.com/Gu-In/IFF-Identification-Friend-or-Foe.html)

KG26_Alpha
07-26-2006, 07:45 AM
Fug 25a, Asked Oleg for it years ago, but no luck.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-26-2006, 08:47 AM
That's a great link. I just spent almost 2 hours clicking through many reports and accounts.


TB

luftluuver
07-26-2006, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KG26_Alpha:
Fug 25a, Asked Oleg for it years ago, but no luck.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
FuG25 info, http://www.noding.com/la8ak/29a.htm

Monguse
07-26-2006, 10:51 AM
Xiolablu3

I'm so glad you found this site and posted the link. Phenominal!

Bearcat, as a pony lover wouldn't it be great if we had P51 in this sim that actually hit and flew as hard as the WWII debreifs documented in the link.

JG53Frankyboy
07-26-2006, 11:11 AM
in the Mustang III tests it turns slightly better than a Fw190A but better than a Bf109G http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-&gt; Fw190A turns better than Bf109G ..............



BRIEF COMPARISON WITH FW. 190 (BMW.801D)

Turning circle
42. Again there is not much to choose. The Mustang is slightly better. When evading an enemy aircraft with a steep turn, a pilot will always out-turn the attacking aircraft initially because of the difference in speeds. It is therefore still a worthwhile maneuver with the Mustang III when attacked.



BRIEF COMPARISON WITH Me.109G

Turning Circle
49. The Mustang III is greatly superior.

Jaws2002
07-26-2006, 11:15 AM
A lot of good info.
Too bad is presented in such a biased way. Just like Kurfust's site.

"Historians with an agenda".

Lucius_Esox
07-26-2006, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"Historians with an agenda". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 100%. Doesn't really fit the definition of Historian does it.

nealn
07-26-2006, 01:16 PM
Great post X3! Thanks for the link.

Neal

Slickun
07-26-2006, 01:26 PM
Mach .83.

Plane was into compression, but still controllable.

BTW, how is posting pilot accounts biased?

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-26-2006, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slickun:
Mach .83.

Plane was into compression, but still controllable.

BTW, how is posting pilot accounts biased? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They probably refer to it as biased because it only tells one side of the story and usually only the good stuff. Izzy's site is the same way.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-26-2006, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slickun:
Mach .83.

Plane was into compression, but still controllable.

BTW, how is posting pilot accounts biased? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

German planes were shot down. strictly verbotten

Slickun
07-26-2006, 01:56 PM
Well, I guess.

I like Issy's site too. I don't expect to find anything other than what I do....stuff on LW planes, mostly.

"Spitfire Performance". What is misleading about that?

Not going to be too many accounts posted where the Mustang pilot was shot down, now is there?

RCAF_Irish_403
07-26-2006, 02:01 PM
could someone post a link for the above mentioned site? thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

TheBandit_76
07-26-2006, 02:17 PM
Maybe the next quality SIM will have a more realistically behaving P51. Until then.....

http://johncarmichaels.typepad.com/photos/grand_junction_airshow_05/p51d.jpg

Abbuzze
07-26-2006, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slickun:
Mach .83.

Plane was into compression, but still controllable.

BTW, how is posting pilot accounts biased? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good figure no doubt! The 109F reached Mach 0.805. No compression mentioned, but the usual problem with wrong trim.

Such values for the FW would be interesting, but I never saw them...

Frequent_Flyer
07-26-2006, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Maybe the next quality SIM will have a more realistically behaving P51. Until then.....
Agreed..it appears the US planes underperform( in this sim) vs. historical data and accounts. You can read accounts documented by Luftwaffe pilots praising the performance of the Mustang vs. their aircraft so its not just biased USAAF flyers. Its good to read actuall verified accounts of multiple kills with the .50's even several Me-410's on a single sortie. http://johncarmichaels.typepad.com/photos/grand_junction_airshow_05/p51d.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kocur_
07-26-2006, 04:00 PM
... or one Fw-190 with 600rds spent...

MrMojok
07-26-2006, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
... or one Fw-190 with 600rds spent... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I resemble that remark.

CUJO_1970
07-26-2006, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slickun:
Not going to be too many accounts posted where the Mustang pilot was shot down, now is there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MrMojok
07-26-2006, 05:25 PM
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-repor...-bunte-29march44.jpg (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/4-bunte-29march44.jpg)

I love this guy's last remark:

"I claim one FW 190 destroyed and a hell of a lot of intrepidity."

BillyTheKid_22
07-26-2006, 06:39 PM
Howdy!! MY BIG BROTHER TheBandit_76, LOL! P-51 BEAUIFUL!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

carguy_
07-26-2006, 06:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Maybe the next quality SIM will have a more realistically behaving P51. Until then..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Looks like HayateAcehole has been banned http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tator_Totts
07-26-2006, 06:59 PM
€œWe quickly outclimbed the e/a and, having a K-14 gunsight, I opened up at around 600 yards.€

I can do that too.

€œAs I was using the K-14 sight, less than 50 rounds were expended.€

hmmm is that modeled in this game.

Slickun
07-26-2006, 07:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrMojok:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-repor...-bunte-29march44.jpg (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/4-bunte-29march44.jpg)

I love this guy's last remark:

"I claim one FW 190 destroyed and a hell of a lot of intrepidity." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is kind of a famous quote.

Frequent_Flyer
07-26-2006, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slickun:
Not going to be too many accounts posted where the Mustang pilot was shot down, now is there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> After reading quite a few of these reports, not many of the Luftwaffe pilots were going to be filling out those reports either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ColoradoBBQ
07-27-2006, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Maybe the next quality SIM will have a more realistically behaving P51. Until then..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif What makes you think the P-51 we have in game doesn't match the ones in the reports?

MrMojok
07-27-2006, 01:59 PM
*pulls up a chair and opens bag of popcorn*


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MrMojok
07-27-2006, 03:09 PM
This isn't related to ColoradoBBQ's last post.
I just like this particular story.
-------------------------------------------

"I closed upon a 109 and fired. I missed and he broke for the deck. at 35,000 feet, he started diving straight down. I fired and hit him in the starboard wing root and fuselage. I did this twice more. Most of the time he was rolling. At 18,000 feet, I noticed I had 650 or 675 on the clock. He started burning, then the right wing broke off. Immediately he skidded and the fuuselage broke in two. He then completely broke up.

I levelled off at 2500 feet above some broken cloud, and I saw a FW 190 on the deck. I went down after him. When I was 300 yards from him, I cleaned my tail and saw 6 FW 190s at 6 o'clock to me. I broke into them and was again bounced by a gaggle of 25 FW 190s. As there were 3 gaggles of 30 plus 190s, I had a busy time with them. When I saw I couldn't keep turning, I pushed everything to the gate and started climbing. They queued up in back of me and took turns shooting. Some of them kept climbing to the side and would make a head-on pass at me. I finally hit some cloud at 18,000 feet and lost them. About 15-20 FW 190s followed me to the cloud. I believe the Mustang will outclimb anything the Hun has.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/4-lang-24may44.jpg

horseback
07-27-2006, 03:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
Thx lads. I didn't know that sort of thing existed on fighters,,,, very cool indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Didn't the Raf have this on their fighters in Bob http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not available in 1940. I believe that the marketing department was unhappy with the original box art, which led to some delays. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I heard that the MoD wanted to release it with BoontyBox but the developers said no.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
As regards IFF systems, I seem to recall the RAF memoirs referring to it very early in the war; ground controllers would tell the pilots of an a/c to "flash your instrument" in order to ID that particular friendly on the scope and provide him with a useful vector. I'm guessing very late 1940 to 1941; I seem to recall Tuck's bio referring to it, and he was a PoW by February 1942.

cheers

horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had a hard time accepting the statement about LW IFF too, so I did a quick google and apparantly it's true:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Challenge and response. In World War II, as radar was emerging, Allied aviators and ground controllers soon became aware of a shortcoming in the existing electronic identification system; radar could only recognize that a plane was in the sky, but could not differentiate friendly planes from those of the Axis. The Germans were the first to develop a crude IFF system, which required pilots to roll their planes in midflight as a means of creating a distinctive radar blip that would identify them as Luftwaffe craft to radar operators. The Allies developed their own active systems: first Mk I in 1940, and later the much more effective Mk III, which greatly enhanced identification technology by adding a separate transmitter that tuned through radar bands even as the receiver in the air did the same. Mk III also was made to respond to as many as six different codes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

from Here (http://www.espionageinfo.com/Gu-In/IFF-Identification-Friend-or-Foe.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I like your smartass response better than my own.

About the German's early "IFF", though, one has to wonder how a bomber crew, returning from a stressful night sortie over Britain, felt about rolling their aircraft in order to dissuade the friendly FlaK units from shooting at them...

cheers

horseback

WWMaxGunz
07-27-2006, 04:25 PM
Since the series does not have radar and associated organization, what use is this IFF in
the sim? Do your own AAA fire on you? They don't on me. Enemy ships miles away will,
but not my own AAA.

horseback
07-27-2006, 06:27 PM
Max, ground control vectors were a key factor for the RAF during the Battle of Britain.

Having it in the game would be a huge immersion boost for the off-line campaign players (well, at least those playing RAF).

Oh, and yes, I have been hit by 'friendly flak' in offline missions at least twice.

But my response was about the real-life implications of the Germans' supposed 'first IFF system.' It sounds a bit bogus to this old former Navy radar technician (ET, NOT OS/RD for all you old squids). Almost Kurfurstian.

cheers

horseback

Sergio_101
07-28-2006, 04:17 AM
In those combat reports the P-51s were over modeled.
We must complain to the US war department about
the cheating and intentional over modeling
of US combat planes.

I knew you Luftwhiners would whine mightily.

Sergio

WB_Outlaw
07-28-2006, 05:28 AM
In this report, the very last part was completed by the squadron intelligence officer. I wonder what made him censor out the pilot's report and complete it for him...

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-repor...fiedler-8april44.jpg (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/4-fiedler-8april44.jpg)

--Outlaw.

MrMojok
07-28-2006, 02:38 PM
Perhaps he was being naughty.


Here is a funny one:
".... We managed though to split up the enemy formation and I found a single bluish-grey 109 flying perfect line abreast formation with a P-51 at some 150 yards distance. They both didn't seem to to realize their mistake, and only caught on when I attacked the 109. (snip) I fired a few short 1/2 second bursts closing in, and was just going to position myself better on him, as I saw no strikes. Much to my surprise, he jettisoned his canopy and bailed out. I watched his a/c half-roll and crash, and then took a picture of him in his parachute.

I claim this ME-109 as destroyed, and a scared Hun."

berg417448
07-28-2006, 02:48 PM
I saw in interview of a Mustang pilot once in which he told about how he and his wingman were climbing up through some clouds and formed up on some other aircraft as they broke out of the clouds. They flew formation for a short while when the Mustang pilot looked over and saw that they had formed up on a flight of Me-109s. One of the 109 pilots looked over at the same time and for a second or 2 they just looked at each other. He said that each group then broke in opposite directions and he didn't see them again!

TheBandit_76
07-28-2006, 03:55 PM
Most of those kids didn't want to be killing each other anyway.

luftluuver
07-28-2006, 03:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:
I saw in interview of a Mustang pilot once in which he told about how he and his wingman were climbing up through some clouds and formed up on some other aircraft as they broke out of the clouds. They flew formation for a short while when the Mustang pilot looked over and saw that they had formed up on a flight of Me-109s. One of the 109 pilots looked over at the same time and for a second or 2 they just looked at each other. He said that each group then broke in opposite directions and he didn't see them again! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Guess why a yellow, black or white stripe was put on each wing, each stab and the fin/rudder of the razorback P-51s.