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View Full Version : track IR is to SA like a joystick is to maneuvering (as opposed to kb)



doraemil
11-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Track IR is to SA and looking around like joystick is to maneuvering.

Oh my gosh. Oh man. I did not know how great this is.



I got sick at first because I had it too sensitive and my eyes were bugging as I moved around.

Also it takes getting used to, like sometimes I'll bounce or head nod when a extra favorite song in my playlist comes on, and I can't w/ track ir

But once those are worked out, this thing shines. full cockpit feels alot easier to work with. Even the evil 190 cockpit.

I never liked IL-3's padlocking. IL-3's padlocking jerks your vision away and you can return it or sometimes you don't want it . . . it's a mess.

Plus pulling my hand off the throttle or stick to use the mouse to pan around sucks because I'm trying to CEM manually (throttle has all the CEM) or letting go of stick is not good in a moderate G turn.

And its very intuitive, I could look away and control the plane, and back. I can glance down for quick glances at instruments . . .


I could look off to the side at my target, and got this coordination going where I would hold and bring the gunsight over the target.

A must for full pit . . . I can actually fly while looking around and even did a whole single player mission, all cockpit.

For wonderwoman view its not as impressive but you can coordinate and BnZ alot better. I was actually BnZ alternating between 3 different flights of bombers

It was really awesome.



The only con is track IR software haxors (takes over) your mouse ingame (IL-2 anyways) so you can't use your mouse for any looking purposes like external views . . . (I haven't check out a gunner yet).



So . . . it is my opinion that full cockpit, the advantage goes to trackIR users.

So I can see where the no cockpit guys w/out track IR can be at a severe disadvantage in full pit servers . . .

But then again, so is a joystick equipped IL-2 player vs a player that only uses mouse and keyboard to fly.



review:


Ordering it was pretty quick and easy, and natural point sent me email for tracking.

Carefully unpacked it, as opposed to ripped it out of the box, since I'd seen a review that said a guy broke his track clip while not being nice to the package.


Installing track IR is as easy as plugging in a usb.

You have to download the software, so you're SOL if you ain't got internets.

The 5.0 software worked w/ track IR straight out of the box. A quick install, and not even a XP reset, but it froze while in IL-2. But XP reset and its been fine since then.


You have to play with the sensitivity to get it working. I went all 10's and then toned it down, I like 7 and 70% smooth

The hat clip I like the best. And they've improved it. TOAD has a thread called 'cheap TrackIR fix' which fixes an issue with the old hat clip woudln't display if you turned your head sideways and you had to get ping pong balls with reflective tape pinned to your hat / glasses etc to get Track IR to work.

But you don't need that with Track IR 5.0. They fixed the sensitivity for the receiver, as I was ready to make my reflective ping pong ball. Kudos to np for that.

The IR receiver, its designed for LCD monitors but it fits my old school CRT just fine. In near complete darkness (lamp turned on in next room, and track ir room dark) and in bright afternoon (blinds drawn across the windows) it works fine. It uses USB . . .

It centers best if its kind of looking down and in line with your head (centered w/ your head). If its off, sometimes your head will drift and you'll favor the left or right side of the cockpit. I experimented with positioning and for me about serval cm / in above my head and 2 feet / 60 cm away from the hat clip, works great.

The only issue is the USB cord is a bit short for my tastes (more on this later).

The track clip pro, in my opinion does exactly what the hat thing does. No you can't use both and get something uber.

It only clips on to hats (and maybe glasses my friend uses it with glasses.

It does give you a luftwaffe night fighter feel since it has a 3 pronged LCD antenna. But I forgot it was there and nearly broke it while scratching my head.

It plugs in via usb (and track IR receiver can plug into that so only 1 usb is taken from your pc).

I tried clipping it on my right headphones, but its upside down. And you have to adjust the prongs as the trackclip pro is more sensitive to position.

The problem with the short receiver USB is that the track IR has to be in the middle and its at max length and I can't move it to the left.

The track clip pro is off even when I center because since my head position drifts it. This is because it's on my left side and trackir instructions recommend moving the receiver on your left side, to accomodate it but the USB cable won't budge (and I can't move my PC closer or else it gets kicked / jostled bad for Hard drives or burnin dvds).

I have buyers remorse and wished I didn't purchase the luftwaffe night fighter track clip pro . . . but that's ok.

doraemil
11-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Track IR is to SA and looking around like joystick is to maneuvering.

Oh my gosh. Oh man. I did not know how great this is.



I got sick at first because I had it too sensitive and my eyes were bugging as I moved around.

Also it takes getting used to, like sometimes I'll bounce or head nod when a extra favorite song in my playlist comes on, and I can't w/ track ir

But once those are worked out, this thing shines. full cockpit feels alot easier to work with. Even the evil 190 cockpit.

I never liked IL-3's padlocking. IL-3's padlocking jerks your vision away and you can return it or sometimes you don't want it . . . it's a mess.

Plus pulling my hand off the throttle or stick to use the mouse to pan around sucks because I'm trying to CEM manually (throttle has all the CEM) or letting go of stick is not good in a moderate G turn.

And its very intuitive, I could look away and control the plane, and back. I can glance down for quick glances at instruments . . .


I could look off to the side at my target, and got this coordination going where I would hold and bring the gunsight over the target.

A must for full pit . . . I can actually fly while looking around and even did a whole single player mission, all cockpit.

For wonderwoman view its not as impressive but you can coordinate and BnZ alot better. I was actually BnZ alternating between 3 different flights of bombers

It was really awesome.



The only con is track IR software haxors (takes over) your mouse ingame (IL-2 anyways) so you can't use your mouse for any looking purposes like external views . . . (I haven't check out a gunner yet).



So . . . it is my opinion that full cockpit, the advantage goes to trackIR users.

So I can see where the no cockpit guys w/out track IR can be at a severe disadvantage in full pit servers . . .

But then again, so is a joystick equipped IL-2 player vs a player that only uses mouse and keyboard to fly.



review:


Ordering it was pretty quick and easy, and natural point sent me email for tracking.

Carefully unpacked it, as opposed to ripped it out of the box, since I'd seen a review that said a guy broke his track clip while not being nice to the package.


Installing track IR is as easy as plugging in a usb.

You have to download the software, so you're SOL if you ain't got internets.

The 5.0 software worked w/ track IR straight out of the box. A quick install, and not even a XP reset, but it froze while in IL-2. But XP reset and its been fine since then.


You have to play with the sensitivity to get it working. I went all 10's and then toned it down, I like 7 and 70% smooth

The hat clip I like the best. And they've improved it. TOAD has a thread called 'cheap TrackIR fix' which fixes an issue with the old hat clip woudln't display if you turned your head sideways and you had to get ping pong balls with reflective tape pinned to your hat / glasses etc to get Track IR to work.

But you don't need that with Track IR 5.0. They fixed the sensitivity for the receiver, as I was ready to make my reflective ping pong ball. Kudos to np for that.

The IR receiver, its designed for LCD monitors but it fits my old school CRT just fine. In near complete darkness (lamp turned on in next room, and track ir room dark) and in bright afternoon (blinds drawn across the windows) it works fine. It uses USB . . .

It centers best if its kind of looking down and in line with your head (centered w/ your head). If its off, sometimes your head will drift and you'll favor the left or right side of the cockpit. I experimented with positioning and for me about serval cm / in above my head and 2 feet / 60 cm away from the hat clip, works great.

The only issue is the USB cord is a bit short for my tastes (more on this later).

The track clip pro, in my opinion does exactly what the hat thing does. No you can't use both and get something uber.

It only clips on to hats (and maybe glasses my friend uses it with glasses.

It does give you a luftwaffe night fighter feel since it has a 3 pronged LCD antenna. But I forgot it was there and nearly broke it while scratching my head.

It plugs in via usb (and track IR receiver can plug into that so only 1 usb is taken from your pc).

I tried clipping it on my right headphones, but its upside down. And you have to adjust the prongs as the trackclip pro is more sensitive to position.

The problem with the short receiver USB is that the track IR has to be in the middle and its at max length and I can't move it to the left.

The track clip pro is off even when I center because since my head position drifts it. This is because it's on my left side and trackir instructions recommend moving the receiver on your left side, to accomodate it but the USB cable won't budge (and I can't move my PC closer or else it gets kicked / jostled bad for Hard drives or burnin dvds).

I have buyers remorse and wished I didn't purchase the luftwaffe night fighter track clip pro . . . but that's ok.

Mr_Zooly
11-05-2009, 03:20 PM
I get mine in the next few weeks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Bearcat99
11-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Ya think........... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

thefruitbat
11-05-2009, 04:12 PM
Track ir is the nuts, all those who think its a whimsical gimmick are fools.

There is nothing that gives you as much 'being there' empathy.

TheFamilyMan
11-05-2009, 04:29 PM
Yet another convert and satisfied customer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif Welcome to the club!

Soon when watching IL-2 movies on youtube you'll wonder why the view doesn't change when you move your head.

squareusr
11-05-2009, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doraemil:
The only con is track IR software haxors (takes over) your mouse ingame (IL-2 anyways) so you can't use your mouse for any looking purposes like external views . . . (I haven't check out a gunner yet).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Open the in-game map and you will see that it certainly does not take over the mouse, it's just that mouse does not control view anymore (unless you TrackIR-software is heavily misconfigured to control the mouse as a cheap workaround for games that do not directly support trackIR, you absolutely should not go this way in IL2)

Urufu_Shinjiro
11-05-2009, 04:49 PM
In addition to squareusers post, the gunner position is still controlled by the mouse, but you can now move the view without moving the gun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Eow_TK
11-05-2009, 05:36 PM
Now i know what i want for christmas.

Hmm do i want this, a new cell phone, ffb joystick or an amp for my guitar.

lol

BillSwagger
11-05-2009, 05:50 PM
I use mouse pan and i have no trouble competing with Tir users.
I found that not using padlock was better for my SA, though. Just my opinion, and i think depending on your individual set up you could get more SA out of using Tir.

For me, i just don't see it, not with Il2 anyway. There might be other sims that require more of the mouse as a function of the sim and not as a panning tool, but i have to see one that didn't also offer it as a viewing option.

I can't knock Tir, and i'm not looking to make enemies, but i just don't think its that superior to mouse panning. OR....with out sounding like a conceited jack a**, if i haven't already done so, i might just be an exceptionally good mouse pan user. I guess for me its seems more intuitive than shaking my head around, but then its also another learned function of the game, as was mouse panning. To each is there own.



I might be more apt to putting my money toward something like this, which would actually give me that being there:


http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/billswagger/2copy-1.jpg



I'm sure the makers of Tir and the like are already developing a head tracking/ 3d viewer like this one.
This would be neat, indeed.



Bill

Choctaw111
11-05-2009, 05:54 PM
Every time I see a TrackIR thread, I have to come in and say that I really don't have words to describe how great this thing really is.
For those that don't have one, or feel that they don't need one to fully experience the sim, I say to them that they are seriously mistaken.

BillSwagger
11-05-2009, 05:58 PM
i think i just saw a 2 percent gain in Tir stock just because Choctaw said it was so great. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Now someone say something bad about it, so i can buy low again.

Sturmtrooper
11-05-2009, 06:50 PM
Yes doraemil, it really is ALL THAT. Isn't it?
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Makes you wonder how you ever did without it.

Waldo.Pepper
11-05-2009, 08:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Track IR is to SA and looking around like joystick is to maneuvering. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We know. Sorry you got so late to the party.

zxwings
11-05-2009, 10:40 PM
I don't have TIR - joystick buttons and keyboard, that is, but with the help of NewView's Pan mode and User-Defined-Views; and honestly my SA is not at all less good than those who have it.

TrackIR IS good, but I don't think it is as described in the title of this thread.

Vexicles
11-06-2009, 12:40 AM
have you tried it zxwings?

I challenge anyone who hasn't tried it to disobey her in doors and just buy it... the short term agro is FAR out weighed by the blissful moving of ones head to control ones view point.

Best invention ever!

doraemil
11-06-2009, 01:43 AM
thanks for the comments and for urufu and square for adding to the mouse thing. I did find gunners work normal (and I like the tank turret feature where you can look elsewhere your gun is pointing . . .).

Also its good to have differing opinions and wow you guys must be really good at mousing / KBin to get the SA you need.

If price is a big factor, go for TIR 4, reviews were good on it.



TIR has added an extra dimension in IL-2, before it, closed cockpits were just something I had to bear.

TIR has allowed me to enjoy closed cockpits. And if something really enhances my IL-2 experience like TIR has, its worth it.

zxwings
11-06-2009, 03:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vexicles:
have you tried it zxwings?

I challenge anyone who hasn't tried it to disobey her in doors and just buy it... the short term agro is FAR out weighed by the blissful moving of ones head to control ones view point.

Best invention ever! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tried it I have not, but I know about some of the best players either using or habitually not using TrackIR, and have watched how they flew online. It is clear that the absence of TrackIR for those who don't use it makes very little difference. For instance, there was a sim pilot called YeS_Snark on WarClouds some time ago, he used to have kill tallies (or 'best air streaks') like 145 or so (I don't know whether that was the best score he ever got), which has probably been the highest on the WC Server, and he did NOT use TrackIR. One can be certain, just by looking at that tally, that it was practically impossible to take him by surprise.

DD_crash
11-06-2009, 04:34 AM
Well that proves you dont have to have TrackIR but it IS so much better that using a hat switch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifIt helps to get a feel for what it must have like (I know its only a sim but you know what I mean)

UgoRipley
11-06-2009, 04:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doraemil:
.........
I never liked IL-3's padlocking. IL-3's padlocking jerks your vision away
.........
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
IL-3 ???
TackIR sets you in the FUTURE !!!
just joking http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I have one myself and I must say that it ROCKS, both in flight/racing sims.

BillSwagger
11-06-2009, 05:27 AM
I'm not bashing Tir in any way, i think its a great product, and i had the opportunity to try something like it years ago before it was as common as it is now. It has come a long way, and a lot of it is also because video games are recognizing the format and engineering their software to better utilize it to its full potential.

Mouse pan is a close second to Tir, but when it comes to SA they are nearly the same so long as you have your Hotas configured so that you never have to take your hands off the controls or buttons. If you have a stick with a separate throttle quadrant then mouse pan would be problematic for you. Stick and mouse set up, is much more comparable.
I could see where using 6dof on a Tir set up would be better, and i've watched some Youtube demos of this. A slight tilt to one side orients my line of site around the gunsite or over the nose for a better shot. I can do the same with New View, which for me is actually very simple, but since this is a Tir thread i won't go into anymore detail about it, only know that the premise is the same except its done with a mouse.

Other games might be different, where sometimes operating a gun torrent is done with the mouse which means you are also panning around as you move the torrent. This actually works to my benefit in Il2 while gunning because the torrent moves much more precisely. I would recommend New View even if you had Tir, so long is it doesn't conflict for this reason. Smoother mouse means better accuracy, whether you are aiming or panning. There is also a way to turn it off/on so it doesn't annoy you on externals, gunner modes.

From what i've seen out of hat switches i'd say they come in third, but you can emulate mouse movements using New View. I've just heard that a mouse is more accurate. HAT alone doesn't quite compare for accuracy, but then again when it comes to SA, really it just takes practice and knowing your equipment.

Last place, is the keyboard. You can use a numpad or arrow keys to emulate mouse movements or HAT controls, but button clicks will never be as fast nor precise as using even a basic HAT switch.

DKoor
11-06-2009, 05:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zxwings:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vexicles:
have you tried it zxwings?

I challenge anyone who hasn't tried it to disobey her in doors and just buy it... the short term agro is FAR out weighed by the blissful moving of ones head to control ones view point.

Best invention ever! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tried it I have not, but I know about some of the best players either using or habitually not using TrackIR, and have watched how they flew online. It is clear that the absence of TrackIR for those who don't use it makes very little difference. For instance, there was a sim pilot called YeS_Snark on WarClouds some time ago, he used to have kill tallies (or 'best air streaks') like 145 or so (I don't know whether that was the best score he ever got), which has probably been the highest on the WC Server, and he did NOT use TrackIR. One can be certain, just by looking at that tally, that it was practically impossible to take him by surprise. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>A lot of top pilots that fly this game don't use TiR.

TiR is nowhere near joystick usefulness (mostly because you have to have joy to play) but it is a nice thing to have.

gizmo60
11-06-2009, 06:34 AM
How many people have used TIR and decided to go back to mouse or kb?

Personally I wouldn't want to fly without it.

Cheers

Urufu_Shinjiro
11-06-2009, 08:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gizmo60:
How many people have used TIR and decided to go back to mouse or kb?

Personally I wouldn't want to fly without it.

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would hazard that that number is damn close to zero.

No one is saying that it is a must, or that it improves your flying, only practice can do that. What we are saying is that it is SO FREAKIN COOL that you can't fly without it once you've tried it.

I'll go so far as to say that if anyone here buys TrackIR and spends a few days with it and doesn't like it, I will pay the return shipping for you to send it back for a refund!

horseback
11-06-2009, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gizmo60:
How many people have used TIR and decided to go back to mouse or kb?

Personally I wouldn't want to fly without it.

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I would hazard that that number is damn close to zero.

No one is saying that it is a must, or that it improves your flying, only practice can do that. What we are saying is that it is SO FREAKIN COOL that you can't fly without it once you've tried it.

I'll go so far as to say that if anyone here buys TrackIR and spends a few days with it and doesn't like it, I will pay the return shipping for you to send it back for a refund! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>In short, TrackIR is the flightsimmer's version of crack. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

cheers

horseback

Crash_Moses
11-06-2009, 10:30 AM
Ditto. TIR won't make you a better pilot or give you instant ace status. Only practice will do that. Heck, if you're just worried about keeping your eye on the ball, padlock works best.

What TIR gives you (well...me anyway) is immersion. That's the only reason I purchased it. And I'll never give it up. NEVER!

Erkki_M
11-06-2009, 12:01 PM
Mouse & hat switch FTW!

TIR's great immersion adder, though.



Playing as =PT=Erkki.

robtek1957
11-06-2009, 12:10 PM
In short:
TIR is the real thing, everything else is trying to emulate TIR.