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Mulleteer
02-02-2005, 01:30 PM
Hi,

I can't figure out how to handle the initial head-on more or less safely. If I go head on the collision is nearly certain, if I try to avoid by breaking, the incoming plane hits me bit too often.

Somebody suggested deep dive just before the planes are in shooting distance. This seems to work but it's suprisingly hard to master againts good pilot with e.g. fw-190.

Mulleteer
02-02-2005, 01:30 PM
Hi,

I can't figure out how to handle the initial head-on more or less safely. If I go head on the collision is nearly certain, if I try to avoid by breaking, the incoming plane hits me bit too often.

Somebody suggested deep dive just before the planes are in shooting distance. This seems to work but it's suprisingly hard to master againts good pilot with e.g. fw-190.

Maple_Tiger
02-02-2005, 01:51 PM
Practice and hit you'r opponent before he or she hits you. However, this is generaly not a good idea and should be avoided if possible.

FoolTrottel
02-02-2005, 01:55 PM
The head-on attack technique is not a very good one, simple because of the downsides you already mentioned....

It could work out okay, if you're in a plane which packs a much heavier punch than your opponent ...(especially if you've got nose mounted guns/canons)... so fighter against bomber (FW190 vs. B17) can work. Fighter-Fighter: luck plays a too big part in this!
(Well, it still is fun to try, last time I did online, my Me110 became a 'Lawn Dart' ...;-)

LawDog007
02-02-2005, 02:11 PM
I think it comes down to be hard headed.
Neither pilot wanting to pull off, or both pilots thinking they can get the kill first. Most the time both die and have to Ignite again.

Fool is right, try and avoid it at all times.

Law

3.JG51_BigBear
02-02-2005, 02:17 PM
Head on passes used to be a lot more survivable when both pilots were blinded by the insane muzzle flashes and sort of kept the trigger depressed and knocked the stick around aimlessly. In a head on pass situation I rarely fire. I do my best to concentrate on the oponenet because trying to get your sights on the target will put you in a better position to get hit. When I see that a head to head is going to happen I depress gradually, when I'm very close I give it full down elevator. Even if I end up in a stall its better than trying to go nose to nose.

Covino
02-02-2005, 02:40 PM
One tactic that used to work surprisingly well for me was to break left or right when the enemy was still 250-500 yards ahead of you and do a quick 180. If all went well, you should complete the 180 on the tail of your enemy, easily within shooting range. Timing and knowing your plane's turning time/radius is essential for this because you may end up in front of your enemy if you start turning too soon

Now I'm never involved in head-ons anymore. I'm either diving on people, or gaining altitude to dive on people.

ClnlSandersLite
02-02-2005, 03:39 PM
There is of course a time and place for everything. If your opponent has a good amount of fire power and or you're in a somewhat non durable plane, don't go head to head. However, If it's the opposite way around, go for it. For example, if you're in a p-38 fighting a zero, open up with those 50's around 700 yards, if you're a decent shot you'll bring him down. Also, you'll be firing before he does for the most part. In addition to this, the Lightning can take one hell of a pounding. If he does score hits, odds are good that you'll survive.

Just know when to break the attack, and make **** sure that if he breaks first, you don't break into him.

Bearcat99
02-02-2005, 10:29 PM
Avoid them...... if thats not possible try to keep moving..... come in on a roll... and practice your marksmanship because you will only get a few seconds.

LeadSpitter_
02-03-2005, 12:53 AM
Avoid them at all times. Fire very early to make the other guy want to avoid it also.

IL2-chuter
02-03-2005, 01:05 AM
Bail out early. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ploughman
02-03-2005, 02:06 AM
I wouldn't deliberately go head on with another plane if the situation meant we both were able to bring our guns to bear.

The US Navy pilots, if attacking Japanese fighters head on, would sometimes approach from slightly below (10-15degrees) and make an attacking climb shooting into the exposed belly and engine of the Japanese a/c. The attacking American fighters were obscured from the Japanese pilot's view by the limited forward visibility of most single engined WWII planes. Additionally, most planes and pilots don't like negative g, so they tend not to want to push the stick forward to regain sight of you (if they've seen you at all) but would rather roll into a shallow dive which is ultimately going to count in your favour because you should be going into this with a lot of speed. With lots of speed if you miss or your initial attack is inconclusive, or if the enemy evades, you can loop back on them or perform an immelman and finish in a position of advantage.

Some a/c don't really prosper in head ons though. In-line engined planes tend to lose out to radials as they're much more vulnerable to a hit in the motor, and I don't like being in front of most late Luft planes as they all seem to have an artillery batteries installed and you get vapourised. A Fw-190 is definately to be avoided in a head on with something like a Spit or a P-51 unless the in-line engined plane is approaching from a low postion as the Fw's poor forward visibility means he can't see you (see above) but the minute he clocks you you need to concentrate on denying him a shot.

Vacillator
02-03-2005, 02:40 AM
Are we talking 1-on-1 in Quick Mission Builder with no advantage either side? If so, then the usual merge is a head-on unless you've managed to climb better or maneouvre round somehow.
If you are head to head on a collision course it's better to jink out of plane to create some separation. If you can do it so that you get a head start on turning back onto your opponent's six that's great, but it will probably require the technique Covino described above. If you're in a better TnB plane even better.
You can create separation in the vertical too, one way which works off-line most of the time (haven't tried it on-line as I'd probably not live to tell about it) is to shallow dive (with jink just before you pass if necessary) and then pull up as hard as you can, do a complete 180 and roll out behind the enemy. Use combat flaps if possible to reduce turn radius. This is fine against AI even set to aces, but may not be too good against humans.
Generally, don't climb in front of the oncoming plane while in range or he'll usually find it easy to pepper you.
Just a few of my thoughts.

FRAGAL
02-03-2005, 06:43 AM
Easy, hope ur a better shot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif if your not a good shot simple wait till ur about .70 away go in to a small 30 degree dive then immediately go into a split ess, he'll either be climbing or turning to get back onto you take the fight from there and may the best man win

VW-IceFire
02-03-2005, 07:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mulleteer:
Hi,

I can't figure out how to handle the initial head-on more or less safely. If I go head on the collision is nearly certain, if I try to avoid by breaking, the incoming plane hits me bit too often.

Somebody suggested deep dive just before the planes are in shooting distance. This seems to work but it's suprisingly hard to master againts good pilot with e.g. fw-190. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never do it.

There's a reason why RAF and USAAF pilots were told that, under no circumstances, were they EVER to go head to head with a Focke Wulf.

I'll extend that to never ever go head to head unless you have to. That said, I've done it a few times and usually with disasterous results. I'll do it as a defensive manuver to force the other guy to break off except that I'm usually in the larger plane and the guy in the smaller plane doesn't know to break away. So its usually collisionsville.

Ilya-Mourometz
02-03-2005, 09:29 AM
71% of my 32 (29 fighters 2 bombers)kills are done with the head one tactic, it works perfect :-)
one burst in the engine or wing, pull away. Easy as that. never had any trouble with it, never got shot down in that way or collided http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif (<span class="ev_code_RED">lucky me</span>) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Erwin

KRISTORF
02-03-2005, 10:04 AM
If I get in that situation I try to fire a quick burst of Cannon (If I got them) then roll away to go below, if it works correct I can come either behind or above while they still turning/climbing and then fight at leisure.

Yimmy
02-03-2005, 10:11 AM
Peoples habbit to find themselves in head to head engagements is probably the main reason I like the P39....

buz13
02-03-2005, 11:16 AM
Shoot early and shoot often......fly an aircraft with BIG guns.

Mulleteer
02-09-2005, 11:45 AM
Lot's of people advice avoiding head-ons but that really isn't an option. Try to meet a TnB plane with ZnB fighter in same altitude and you'll end up in following pattern.

1. Head-on and break
2. Run away while TnB plane follows until you have over 2k distance
3. Turn for another head-on
4. Goto 1.

For example it's very annoying to fight againts I-143 or Zero with FW-190 as it's always like this. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

FoolTrottel
02-09-2005, 12:32 PM
Okay, then.
Can't avoid them....
Well, the only true advice then, is try and keep HAVING FUN!

Try and be unpredictable!
Bail out just on time, enemy will crash into your empty plane!

But hey, if you'r in a BnZ, you should easily be able to avoid head-ons!
You should be able to stay well above 'm and boom down whenever you choose!
If they turn for a head-on, zoom back up! (Or was it the other way 'round?)

Indianer.
02-09-2005, 12:40 PM
OK this is an easy one.

You know how hard it is to line up the shot even when ur enemy is right in front of you....

Well try doing that when ur being shot at.....

Shoot first with mg to put them off then when theyre nice n close unload cannon shell at em!

But most important

SHOOT FIRST.

EDIT: get a plane with BIG guns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DuxCorvan
02-09-2005, 01:43 PM
There's no way to avoid head-ons when you're in a BnZ fight... and you're the slow plane, as far as you have a good punch. If not, it would be better to present a difficult deflection angle, and wait for his error or just him getting tired... and your chance to escape. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif