PDA

View Full Version : Add fuel info to speedbar ?



XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 02:01 PM
In ForgottenWars we have missions that lasts well over an hour.

The Yak1 drivers (and to some extent the Chaika drivers) often go dry - or have to go home early on the assumption that they will soon be dry.

I don't know if the Chaika HAD any way of measuring fuel left, but the yaks did (onwing fuelgauges that cannot be modelled in working order as far as I understand it)

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 02:01 PM
In ForgottenWars we have missions that lasts well over an hour.

The Yak1 drivers (and to some extent the Chaika drivers) often go dry - or have to go home early on the assumption that they will soon be dry.

I don't know if the Chaika HAD any way of measuring fuel left, but the yaks did (onwing fuelgauges that cannot be modelled in working order as far as I understand it)

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:17 AM
Who uses the speedbar?

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySig.gif> </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 03:46 AM
Anybody who flys planes that don't have proper gauges../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Let's see you find your way without a compass. Possible? Yes. Pain in the butt? Yes. No fuel gauge is in the same boat.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 04:10 AM
Ok, but the fuel status must be removed from the bar when I blow your wing off. Otherwise you would have an over modeled fuel guage and we can't have that/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif .

----------------------------------------
<center>I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 07:50 AM
Fuel gauge - I'd prefer a gauge for WEP stuff.

< !-- sig -->
<HR noshade>
Our conviction is like an arrow already in flight.
Your life will only last until it reaches you.
-
The spice extends life, the spice expands consciousness. The spice is vital to space travel. Travel without moving.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 10:39 PM
I take enough fuel to get back home. If I'm THAT low on fuel, Im probably staring at my guages already to make damn sure i'm at most efficient settings to get back home.


That I would want, though is an RPM readout.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 10:51 PM
I think a watch is a good idea !

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 10:56 PM
sauron6

How do you know how long you'll be in a fight? Without a gauge. You'll never know when you have to leave for home.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 11:40 PM
When the Bf 109E7's with drop tanks break off and RTB, it might be a good idea to head home/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif . What's sad is that actually works. The Bf 109E's suck up fuel terribly fast. An Emil with drop tanks has about the same endurence as a Yak 1 with 50% fuel.

----------------------------------------
<center>I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 11:49 PM
I didn't realize the 109's were so bad on fuel mileage. Until I started running some test for climb, top speed etc on 25% fuel,and kept running out of fuel. Kind of wrecks the test..;(

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 01:11 AM
the 109s had indeed a very small range, compared to other planes. In the Battle of Britain they often had only 5minutes for fighting, then they had to rtb.

EDIT: Yak1: 900km range, Bf109: 590km, P51D 1529, A6M Zero even 1920km

http://diablo_bayern.bei.t-online.de/fw190avatar.JPG

Zuerst war ich unsicher, ich hatte nicht viel Erfahrung damit. Aber heute bereue ich nichts. Meine Freunde taten es schon lange. Ich wollte auch mitmachen, aber mir war unwohl dabei. Ich hatte Angst davor. Irgendwann war dann doch meine Neugier zu groß und ich wollte es auch unbedingt ausprobieren. Alles war so fremd. Heute blicke ich zurück und es war die beste Entscheidung meines Lebens. Es geht nichts über einen Würger und 2000PS unterm Hintern! -Hpt. von Stranzki, Fw190 Pilot, Kampfpilot des StS! Horrido!



Message Edited on 07/19/0312:16AM by StS_v._Stranzki

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 12:38 PM
> An Emil with drop tanks has about the same endurence as a Yak 1 with 50% fuel.

This is overstated - I fought against an E7 in FW. He ended up bleeding fuel very bad. So did I (in a Rata)... We both had to put down our planes with no fuel. At that point he had been flying for 1hr23mins of which 30 mins had been very hard DF.

Someone mentioned CEM - yup - of course you should use CEM to economize on fuel. That does not alter the fact that in the Yak1 the pilot KNEW how much fuel he had left (very nice info when you are economizing).

Of course when getting the wings shot off - the info should disappear LOL Only I'd hate to prang kite on an empty stomach http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Buzz is spot on with the compass thing - in several early VVS planes the compass is obscured by gunsight or stick. That's the reason many (including me) prefers the speedbar... Not because of the immense immersion depth the nice red figures in lower left corner provides http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Not knowing how much fuel you've got left leaves you guessing - you can't make the best choice of when to disengage and RTB... If a plane was born without fuel gauge - so be it. But in the case of the Yak - it was born WITH fuel gauge...

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 11:47 PM
109E didn`t had that bad consumption, perhaps it`s badly modelled or just players take too little fuel...

Here are the exact numbers:

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/bf109e-perf-chart3.jpg


Even at max power, fuel is consumed at 321-433 liter/hour. The plane had a 400 liter tank, so you could run at 100-110% for about an hour, provided you wouldn`t overheat after 1-5minutes... If you run out sooner with a full tank, something is bad.

But I noticed something strange about 109E and F consumption. The F at least works like as it wouldn`t consume any fuel at all (the gauge doesn`t moves), and then after a while, SUDDENLY fuel goes away at a VERY high rate. Perhaps a bug.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 02:00 AM
Cool info - thnx Isegrim.. What is the source ?

I'd still love to know how much fuel is left at any one point in my Yak endeavours...

( just trying to save my thread before it turns into a 109 discussion http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 02:28 AM
Tuposti_Yanev wrote:
- This is overstated

Yeah it is. An Emil with a drop tank has the same endurence as a Yak 1 with 75% fuel instead of a Yak 1 with 50% /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif . I can't wait for the Bf 110C4, those damn 109's suck.

----------------------------------------
<center>I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 10:10 AM
Well..

This brings about an interesting view into this matter. As I believe now, Oleg's team has modelled the cockpits as accurately as they should be...

However, if there are cauges that can't be observed in the game, it is a clear sign that something needs to be tuned. The answer to this has been proposed, as being able to move the pilot's head around the cockpit.

The planes have cauges just for that purpose: you use them to measure the amount of fuel left. As you cannot say accurately how many liters of fuel you have due to these inaccuracies which Isegrim pointed out.

So, the speedbar is required because another crucial feature is missing. However, the speed bar's readings are very general, which is weird. If you fly in the virtual cockpit (cauges painted over a full-screen display, shift-F1, I think), the speed is much more accurately measured than in the speed bar.

Adding fuel info to the bar would be the easy way out of this dilemma. Modelling the pilot's head movements would be the harder one. Choice is up to the developers now.

-Celorfie

The_Blue_Devil
07-20-2003, 07:01 PM
The guages in the 109 work fine..Buzz is simply adding his normal attempts to sidetrack a post. BTW in the BoB the 109s actually did have only about 5 mins of fight time..then they had to RTB or ditch in the water.. I remember seeing an interview by many of the surviving German pilots.. They themselves stated that escorts depending on altitude and situation were always a gamble because fuel was always a problem.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySig.gif> </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 07:19 PM
The_Blue_Devil

What are you talking about? I stayed on topic. I also didn't mention anything about the gauges on the 109. I was talking about the gauges,or lack of gauges in the Yak1.

My talking about the mileage of the 109 was a responce to Maj Death.

Did you actually read all the posts, or do you just like ragging on me for no reason?

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/pictures/f-15.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 07:34 PM
Tuposti_Yanev wrote:
- Cool info - thnx Isegrim.. What is the source ?
-

I found it somewhere on the net, perhaps on Butch`s board. I believe it`s a British report on a captured 109E3.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 04:33 AM
> However, if there are cauges that can't be observed in the game, it is a clear sign that something needs to be tuned.

That is the case of the compass. With the fuel gauge on the Yak it's a different matter. The fuel gauge was on the wing - not in the cockpit. Currently a working fuel gauge on the wing can' be modelled as I understand it - hence the original question...

BTW. I see some problems with attention span in this thread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The topic is - can we have FUEL info in the speedbar to compensate for the lack of fuel info in certain planes ?

You don't need that info much in DF's where you either get shot down or land when you have no ammo - but if you fly missions of a certain duration it is very important !



Message Edited on 07/21/0303:36AM by Tuposti_Yanev

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 04:49 AM
Tuposti_Yanev wrote:

- That is the case of the compass. With the fuel gauge
- on the Yak it's a different matter. The fuel gauge
- was on the wing - not in the cockpit. Currently a
- working fuel gauge on the wing can' be modelled as I
- understand it - hence the original question...

AFAIK guages outside the cockpit are supported. The upcoming Bf110 has working readable guages on the cowlings of it's engines. It'd be nice to see the Yaks receive this in future.

Don't forget that the reason some of the needles stay stationary for a while then drop suddenly is because some guages measure litres and the scale of the gauge doesn't cover the entire tankage.

<center>
Read the <a href=http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm>IL2 FAQ</a>
Got Nimrod? Try the unofficial <A HREF=http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=4870c2bc08acb0f130e5e3396d08d595>OT forum</A>

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 06:27 AM
Yes the gauges are doable and will be on the Ju-88 as well, as long as sources can be found. So far not a single(!) picture of the gauges in the nacelles... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



-jippo

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 12:25 PM
Cool info !!

You know if there are any plans to put the yak ones in then ?

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 02:58 PM
If you are flying a mission, take off with full tanks only.

As for flying times, do some high throttle position speed test runs (just staying below overheat) to find out how long you can stay in the air. Also do them at different heights.

Example:

Fw190A-8

@ 2300rpm

300m > 1.2hr
2000m > 1.28hr
3000m > 1.3hr
5000m > 1.32hr
7000m > 1.48hr

@ 2000rpm

300m > 2.1hr
2000m > 2.01hr
3000m > 2.01hr
5000m > 2.02hr
7000m > 2.18hr

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg