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View Full Version : Lockheed could have had a jet in the sky in 1940..



Xiolablu3
01-25-2006, 02:19 AM
Watching a great episode of 'Planes that never flew' and it was all about a lockheed design which was proposed in 1940 for a Jet fighter/interceptor which kelly jonson had designed.

This was a very strange looking bird, but had an afterburner in 1940!

Unfortunatley the US government werent interested and rejected it, Jonson kept working on the design however, and when the Allies found out about the Me262/Ar234 they remembered his earlier proposal, returned to Johnson and asked him to built them a jet fighter QUICK.

Thanks to his earlier designs, the YP80 was designed very quickly and shipped to Italy intending to use it to shoot down AR234's.

Another fact I didnt know from this programme was that the P80 used the British Rolls Royce Goblin engine from a prototype Vampire, another example of great teamwork between US/UK http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Very interesting episode, I forget what the planes designated number was, maybe someone can tell us.

Xiolablu3
01-25-2006, 02:19 AM
Watching a great episode of 'Planes that never flew' and it was all about a lockheed design which was proposed in 1940 for a Jet fighter/interceptor which kelly jonson had designed.

This was a very strange looking bird, but had an afterburner in 1940!

Unfortunatley the US government werent interested and rejected it, Jonson kept working on the design however, and when the Allies found out about the Me262/Ar234 they remembered his earlier proposal, returned to Johnson and asked him to built them a jet fighter QUICK.

Thanks to his earlier designs, the YP80 was designed very quickly and shipped to Italy intending to use it to shoot down AR234's.

Another fact I didnt know from this programme was that the P80 used the British Rolls Royce Goblin engine from a prototype Vampire, another example of great teamwork between US/UK http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Very interesting episode, I forget what the planes designated number was, maybe someone can tell us.

WOLFMondo
01-25-2006, 02:32 AM
US jets in 1940? Afterburner? Sounds like a load of old BS to me. I bet Frank Whittle would have been suprised.

I belive the first Russian jets also had there power provided by old British jet designs.

IL2-chuter
01-25-2006, 02:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> . . . another example of great teamwork between US/UK </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The jet engine was not necessarily "willingly shared" with the US.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Xiolablu3
01-25-2006, 03:02 AM
My only source so far is the history channel for this info, so pls dont flog me if its wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I am looking for the prog now and ill google the name of the plane.

Xiolablu3
01-25-2006, 03:03 AM
Here ya go

http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Lockheed-L133/L133.htm

See the p80 wings? ^

Lockheed even had its own L1000 jet engine, its in a museum in the US on show. It was the first Jet engine to have an afterburner planned - in 1940. This is the first time an afterburner had ever been concieved.

This was the prog I saw

http://www.woolworths.co.uk/ww_p2/product/index.jhtml;j...6775&_requestid=8995 (http://www.woolworths.co.uk/ww_p2/product/index.jhtml;jsessionid=V3ECCAS0R54BLLAQ1QPSFFA?pid =50206775&_requestid=8995)

Waldo.Pepper
01-25-2006, 09:03 AM
First jet I know of.

http://www.deltawing.go.ro/history/coanda.htm

BSS_Goat
01-25-2006, 09:37 AM
(blatant cut-paste but interesting)

The Turkey Buzzard

Many people associate the name of Gatling with the famous Gatling Machine Gun, but few associate the name with a flying machine. However in 1873 another Gatling flew a heavy-than-air machine on the family farm near Murfreesboro, North Carolina.

James Henry Gatling, the older brother of Richard of Gatling Gun fame, took flight on a Sunday afternoon and according to witnesses' flew up to 100 feet before crashing into a tree. Some of the amazed witnesses dubbed the machine, "The Turkey Buzzard," a vulture that resembles a common turkey.

The machine was 18 feet long and had a wingspan of 14 feet. It had features that are prescient of the Wright Brothers machine.

It had a vertical elevator in front for vertical control and a tail in the rear for yawl control. Both were connected to a lever in the cockpit. A built-in wooden chair was provided for the pilot in a cockpit within a fuselage made of a light popular wood.

The monoplane wings were made of 1/8-inch thick woven white-oak splits in a triangular shape. They were hinged to the fuselage and could be adjusted up and down while flying by a lever connected to wires attached to the wing tips.

Twin blowers propelled the machine, one under each wing. Air was drawn into the curved blower casings containing paddle wheels and blown out under each wing to provide lift. The pilot used muscle power to turn the fans by cranking a hand wheel in the cockpit.

The machine had a tricycle landing gear. The wheels were cut from logs. The solid front wheels were 2 1/2-feet in diameter and the solid rear wheel was 18-inches in diameter.

Henry had many of the same interests and characteristics of the Wright Brothers. As a youth, he was interested in mechanical things and enjoyed taking them apart and putting them back together again to find out they worked. He made and flew kites and wooden model airplanes and dreamed of flying while observing buzzards.

At the age of 57, he decided to realize his long held dream by designing and constructing his flying machine. His plan was to take off from a 12-foot high platform protruding from his cotton gin, fly east to a point some 400 yards from his farm near Como, NC, and fly back.

On a Sunday afternoon he had 6 bystanders push the machine off the platform while he cranked the blowers as fast as he could. The machine reportedly flew over a 4-foot fence, turned to the left and hit an elm tree with a wing. The force spun the machine around and it crashed, with Henry escaping somewhat dazed, but with only minor injuries.

The original machine was destroyed in a fire. Now, some 20 hard working volunteers have invested 1700 man-hours in building a full-size replica of the machine. The accompanying picture shows some of them as well as yours truly.

The machine is located in the historic district of Murfreesboro in a temporary site. They plan to build a permanent residence once they raise the money.

They hope to attract visitors on their way to Kitty Hawk to stop in and see the Turkey Buzzard. While there they can see magnificent historical homes, some of them dating back to the 18th century, and visit their impressive museums.

Did the Turkey Buzzard really fly? That depends on whom you talk to. Some say that it rapidly descended to the ground, others say it flew as far as 100 feet. One witness said it flew very well but had difficulty landing.

Henry himself realized that muscle power alone was insufficient to generate the lift to overcome the weight of his machine. He was examining the possible use of an electric motor at the time of his death.

He asked his younger brother, Richard, for his ideas, but unlike the Wright Brothers, apparently Richard didn't think much of his brother's attempt to fly and was of little help.

Another problem was that Henry's idea of blowing air on the underside of the wings was not aerodynamically sound. He apparently was unaware of the Bernoulli principle whereby lift is created by the pressure differential of airflow over the wings.

Also, the machine was unstable and uncontrollable. The problem of control was not solved until the Wright Brothers developed their system for dealing with pitch, roll and yaw that made flight possible.

However, Henry's use of a vertical tail was innovative in that most gliders at the time did not use this feature. Also, his insight in the employment of a front elevator, fuselage, monoplane wings with twin engines, tricycle landing gear and the ability to change the shape of the wings in flight were innovative for his time.

Henry met an untimely end on September 2, 1879. He was shot in the head over a minor dispute by a neighbor with a shotgun. Henry never flew more than the one time.

The Turkey Buzzard is an historic machine worth noting in the long history of man's attempt to fly.



25 miles from my house. Anyone got one earlier than this?

horseback
01-25-2006, 10:32 AM
Yeah, but did the Turkey Buzzard have an afterburner?

cheers

horseback

LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2006, 10:45 AM
Xolo3:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Lockheed could have had a jet in the sky in 1940..
:
:
it was all about a lockheed design which was proposed in 1940
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, it got me to open the thread!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Computer Game devs/pubs do that, put a pic on the box that you can't wait to open hehe...by then, its too late.

BSS_Goat
01-25-2006, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
Yeah, but did the Turkey Buzzard have an afterburner?

cheers

horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh....no .....it didn't even have a before burner.

Bearcat99
01-25-2006, 12:17 PM
Intresting info blu..

Bremspropeller
01-25-2006, 12:20 PM
Trinidad and Tobago could have had a jet in 1728 if only someone had the idea to build one.

guderian_ente
01-25-2006, 01:22 PM
"Unfortunately the US government weren't interested and rejected the jet..."

Unfortunate for Kelly Johnson maybe, but not for the US government.

Jet technology was nowhere near ready in 1940, as shown by the long and troubled development of the Me 262 and the utter fiasco of the Airacomet. The US made a sound decision to concentrate on proven technology instead, and turned out tens of thousands of excellent and serviceable Mustangs and Thunderbolts instead.

Of course the Germans were outnumbered so they had to take risks, but the Me 262 was far from the success story that Luftwaffe fanboys think. Engine trobles delayed the entire project, and were a constant source of trouble even after it entered service.

What the Luftwaffe needed was better propeller fighters and more trained pilots in 1943, not a potentially worldbeating superfighter in 1944.