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MiamiEagle
10-22-2004, 10:34 AM
I have read many post about how poor the Japanese planes where and how they rather fly Allies planes. Let me tell you something. If your preference is to to fly Ally planes thats fine with me. I like for one like to fly for both sides. I like to see it from both prospective. Now if you do not to fly Japanese planes because they are perceive as poor Western imitations then you are totally wrong.Japanese planes where well desing planes that in most cases if flown properly. Where very dangerous. They are the most fun planes to fly as for the most part they are well balance with a good weight and power ratio. They are easeir to fly than American planes with the eception of the P51.They where very agile for the most part. The Japanese had a great variety of planes to fly with and against.

I do not understand why so many people are addicted to German planes and refuse to try some new ones like the Japanese and Italian planes. Its true that Japanese got jumped started by the the Germans in the 20s. But then on they improve their technology capabilities and where very able on their own to desings very good planes able to rival any country.

As matter of fact they developed some very capable planes in the 30s and 40s on their own.
In my opinion the Zero was in many respect supirior to the Me109 and the Gearge was better than Fw190. The George was a very well Balance and powerfull planes and my opion it was slightly better than the Ki84.

If you like more planes than just two. Here is just a short list of Fighter that could choice if you like:
Ki43
Ki84
Ki61
Ki45
Ki100
George
Ki27
Claude
Irving
Zero
Ki44
That not to mention all does plane they had in developement before the war ended.
Their is also a long list of dive and torpedo planes plus float and bomber planes.

So do not uderestimate your enemy. Fly its plane and then you will understand them better. Perhaps you will able to defeat them then.

Good luck good Hunting. Miamieagle

NorrisMcWhirter
10-22-2004, 10:43 AM
Hi,

190 bettered? That's impossible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'll be flying Japanese planes because I prefer being the underdog but I know nothing of the pacific theatre. So, which one of the Japanese planes is a BnZ'er of equal salt to the 190?

Cheers,
Norris

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 11:33 AM
Norris, that'd be Jack or a later version of the Ki-44 (there was a very early Tojo in '42, but it only had peashooters). Good, speedy planes with firepower galore.

Here's the deal with Japanese planes: if they're modelled right, they'll not only be competitive in the early going, but superior. The earlier Allied planes can only *run* in their planes, or survive in large, many vs. many fights where they can use high angle and HO snapshots (and big ammo loadouts) to their advantage. Otherwise, they're meat against Zeros.

After the next-generation planes like the later P-38s, F6F, F4U and the like begin appearing, not to mention the very fast and rugged bombers and attack planes that come with them, the Japanese experience becomes one of utter frustration. They can't catch these planes, and they usually can't get a good firing pass of duration long enough to do the damage required to kill them. If the Corsairs, Lightnings stick around to dogfight too long, they will get a rude treatment at the hands of A6M3 and Tony fighters; but they still have the ace in the hole that they can drop the nose and run like girls. The Japanese planes don't have that option.

I can't tell you how many times I've chased A-20s and B-25s all over New Guinea in Zeros and Oscars and not been able to get in a good gunpass...then, if you stay in tailchase too long, the tailgunners start tearing off strips. It's even hard to time a good lead turn against these planes when they make attack runs on barges and shipping. If you're "off" just by about 100 yards, your cannon's out of effective range, but the tailgunners get a nice shot.

With the F6F, man, the Japanese are really up against it then. This plane can keep up with the Zero, especially as speeds get higher. It's armadillo tough, and has a great climb and turn rate. Sort of like the shock you get in IL-2 when facing a La7.

In the late going, the Japanese get the Jack/Raiden, the Frank Ki84 and the George N1K, but these arrived so late, in such small numbers, and were so badly manufactured and maintained that they just didn't make a difference. Also, pilot quality was going the Allies' way by then, which made the situation even worse. I feel if you make one of these late war planes your stock in trade, you're gaming the game. If you're gonna call yourself a Japanese virtual pilot, you'll stick with Zeros, Oscars and perhaps Tonys every now and again. The others just didn't see that much action until they were defending the home islands in '45 (Jack, for example, was mostly sent up against B-29s).

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 11:51 AM
Stiglr,

So, in German planes when you "extend" away from the fight. It's ok, but when an American plane does it you call it "running like girls"?

Don't be a BOZO. It's a legitimate tactic. You use the strengths of your plane to survive.

Ichijyo_203Ku
10-22-2004, 11:53 AM
I love flying Japanese! So does my squad...

www.203ku.com (http://www.203ku.com)

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Snootles
10-22-2004, 11:54 AM
I'm waiting for PF and my Ki-43!

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
Stiglr,

So, in German planes when you "extend" away from the fight. It's ok, but when an American plane does it you call it "running like girls"?

Don't be a BOZO. It's a legitimate tactic. You use the strengths of your plane to survive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Buzzu,

German planes tend to extend UPWARD, and stay within a km or two of the fight. Yeah, I'd call that extending.

USN/Marine pilots tend to run fleeing like girls for a couple of miles, waiting for the pursuing planes to break off the chase, then turn or loop back and return for another craven, high speed spray attack. Or, they keep going and flee like girls.

And, I did NOT say it wasn't a legitimate tactic. It's effective, it's historical and it works.

But, I'll also tell you that I've made quite a few guys/girls turn around with a bait like that, and found them comfortably in my gunsights a few seconds later. Heh, that's also effective.

To answer the initial question, the reason so many don't like to fly Japanese is because they always choose planes that have inherent advantages (witness all the posts asking which plane is the best at turning, or firepower or speed or just overall best). They'll seldom choose an 'average plane' or one with a few warts. Japanese planes seldom have such a huge advantage: they're unforgiving (in terms of damage sustainable), usually slower, and don't have tons of ammo they can spray around in high-angle-off gunpasses.

LeLu_Repo
10-22-2004, 12:37 PM
Japanese planes are just finehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Well I dont know about KI-61 it seems sluggish, but at least it is faster than P40-B and F4F3http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I zero it is easy to avoid attack by F4F and Corsairs if you spot them, Hellcat is more trickier.

One tip for zero flyers..

At 280kmh pull up as hard as you can, nothing can follow youhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 12:39 PM
I'll agree to disagree.

geetarman
10-22-2004, 12:45 PM
Stiglr - you make a lot of sense sometimes, but "run like girls?" Come on. It's not like you ever had to fight for survival in the cockpit of a fighter plane, tough guy.

For someone who does occaisionally hit the nail on the head, that comment sounds like something a 12 year old would say.

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 12:46 PM
You guys notice how quickly people are finding mistakes in the FMs in PF (like the dive mistake on Tony; surprise, it negatively affects an Axis plane; also how the US planes can make sustained low speed turns with little E loss and no stall), and how quickly the topic gets locked?

To geetarman: OK, OK, that was a bit harsh... "run like WOMEN". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For repo: it can be tricky to avoid the hated US spray and pray attack if the speeds are high and the Zero is more sluggish in response...especially when those 6 or 8 .50s can quickly fill a space with lead at relatively long ranges, and only a few hits can flame a zero or hit a control surface...

There is no worse a position to be in in a Zero than to be subject to multiple Corsairs, Hellkitties or P-51s making repeated highspeed slash attacks, while you try to dodge them and escape!!!!

WereSnowleopard
10-22-2004, 12:49 PM
Exact same thing with kid's play as "Cowboy and Indian" as most kids don't want play Indian. Study weakness and strategy then you will do well.

Cheer
Snowleopard

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 12:56 PM
The bottom line is I grew up loving American planes, and wouldn't fly anything else. even if they were total junk in FB/PF, i'd still fly them. I'm also old enough to remember Pearl Harbor.

btw..I've never thought while I watched a 109 climb away "Go ahead and climb away like a girl"

clint-ruin
10-22-2004, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
To geetarman: OK, OK, that was a bit harsh... "run like WOMEN". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Describe in single words, only the good things that come into your mind. About your mother.

BinaryFalcon
10-22-2004, 01:12 PM
I just think it'd be fun to shoot down someone with a plane called "Irving". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Really, about the only planes in the sim I don't regularly fly are the German aircraft. The 190 doesn't quite suit my style and the 109 is too much trouble. Look at the engine funny and it dies, and I can only successfully land it about 40% of the time (usually I break off the gear or flip it over). It's the only one that gives me trouble too.

Overall, I do tend to prefer the US aircraft because they tend to be reasonably well balanced with respect to speed, firepower and armor.

However, I love jumping into a Zero and turnfighting. It probably suits me the best, and given that this is a sim and not real life, I like that only a couple of hits can take me down. It's a fun challenge.

DarthBane_
10-22-2004, 01:14 PM
I fly both, but trouble for me is in cockpits, not field of view but texturing and design of details. f6f or whatever series have terrible visual impresion, cant stand to look from tham. ki61 is beatifull work of design (i am talking about game not RL), zeros, the main Jap ride is also ugly, i cannot belive that someone put so much work in i185 and Gladiator, when some most frequently flown AC have design like it comes from some early games 5-6 years ago, Val is also terrible. Outside look is perfect. I dont understand this lack of quality for cockpits. Corsair is a great work on the other hand. Ki61 and 84 are the only nice looking cockpits on Japan side. Looks like same designer did job on tham. This things bother me more than flight model.

Snootles
10-22-2004, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Describe in single words, only the good things that come into your mind. About your mother. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me tell you about my mother...BLAM!

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-22-2004, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
To geetarman: OK, OK, that was a bit harsh... "run like WOMEN". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More like "run like Jesse Owens! He was faster than any woman of the time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There is no worse a position to be in in a Zero than to be subject to multiple Corsairs, Hellkitties or P-51s making repeated highspeed slash attacks, while you try to dodge them and escape!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Now to put it in real-time context. I've alluded many times about living vicariously in these sims and realize that there is no fun in getting shot down repeatedly "For history's sake". Thus it's understandable to want a craft with better survivability especially when competing online against other human pilots (coops are a different story).

It's been discussed many times that quite a large number of pilots that fly online actually have more hours in the pit than their real life counterparts 60 years ago. Also, as virtual pilots we aren't subject to the physical or emotional (ok, this on can be disputed by some over zealous online flyers) hardships that our real life counterparts had to endure.

The playing field is much more evenly matched i this sim and if the airplanes aren't then expect the outcome to be on the side with better performers.

Now before you start saying "it's the pilot and not the plane" I agree with that as well...to a point. (refer to a previous post about a lone pilot with 2 corsairs slashing at him repeatedly)

I am not for a minute advocating changing FM's or DM's to satisfy any true shortcomings in pilot skill or aircraft performance, just realize that a battle between two teams of equal skill with different planes will more often than not give victory to the team with the better planes...period. Early in the war those were the Japanese (in the PTO) and later were the Americans. Pilot skill and numbers aside.

A poorly manufactured Ki84 with low octane fuel and over-used, old motor oil would be at a decided disadvantage against a Corsair in top operational condition. (but notice I say disadvantage and not clear victor/victim)

We want realism in this sim in a fine balance with playability. Let's not make the playability the over-riding factor at the cost of FM/DM inaccuracy. Rather, let's shorten distance, reduce ground objects, or even ground detail if something must be done, but the bottom line is if you choose to fly Japanese planesets after 1942 be prepared to be at an equipment disadvantage.

*phew* does any of that make sense?

TB

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 01:34 PM
Haven't we already gone through this with IL2? The Germans had advantage in early years, and the Russians got strong in the later years.

LStarosta
10-22-2004, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeLu_Repo:
Japanese planes are just finehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Well I dont know about KI-61 it seems sluggish, but at least it is faster than P40-B and F4F3http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I zero it is easy to avoid attack by F4F and Corsairs if you spot them, Hellcat is more trickier.

One tip for zero flyers..

At 280kmh pull up as hard as you can, nothing can follow youhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's utter BS. It only works if the American who's pursuing you is ******ed enough to follow you into an energy bleeding maneuver. A real killer will just extend and slaughter you at another opportunity.

Here's what I've been saying for quite a while before PF came out. If you're an American pilot, you are going to be far from a NOOB. In order to succeed as an American, you will have to learn certain skills to survive and to kill: High angle deflection shooting (by high angle I mean 90 degrees standard) and high speed gun lead, energy judgement, energy conservation, a basic understanding of aerodynamics, and extreme discipline in order to keep from getting duped into pulling an energy bleeding turn just to make a shot that you will probably miss anyway. Fw190 and P47 fliers will excel in American warbirds, because they will not rely on their plane's good turning ability, which is still inferior to most Jap. planes, so long as they subscribe to the same tactics they used when flying the butcherbird or Jug. American planes are invincible when they fully exploit their advantages and enter the battle with energy advantage. A pilot gets shot down when he overestimates his energy state relative to his opponents, or if he gets greedy and puts all of his cards into one maneuver that will leave him with nothing when a bandit gets on his tail.

Skullin
10-22-2004, 01:56 PM
I've never seen a girl run before, they're usually cooking me something.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> they're unforgiving (in terms of damage sustainable), usually slower, and don't have tons of ammo they can spray around in high-angle-off gunpasses. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

umm... so basically they suck? hmm... sign me up !!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

weasel75
10-22-2004, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
That's utter BS. It only works if the American who's pursuing you is ******ed enough to follow you into an energy bleeding maneuver. A real killer will just extend and slaughter you at another opportunity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats another lesson best to be learned when flying P-40B vs. Zero. Just leave the Zero do its high-g maneuvers (Split-S n stuff), dont follow, go up, over the top (if enough speed), and then blow it in a high-speed-pass.
Is more difficult with no externals though (old BnZ-problem).

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 02:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
The bottom line is I grew up loving American planes, and wouldn't fly anything else. even if they were total junk in FB/PF, i'd still fly them. I'm also old enough to remember Pearl Harbor.

btw..I've never thought while I watched a 109 climb away "Go ahead and climb away like a girl" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. But if you've watched Corsair, P-51s and Hellcat pilots do it in a straight beeline or a dive, that phrase does come to mind. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Saburo_0
10-22-2004, 04:19 PM
well, i think the "Run like girls.." quote was appropriate in the context of explaining how frustrating it can be to fly the unarmoured Japanese planes. & of course it's a valid tactic,
So is taunting the Corsair pilots-quite historically accurate.

I really don't know how much I'll fly the Zero, in combat, it's a blast to fly around & do aerobatics in, but could get very frustrating on-line because an inexperienced pilot in a 6 gun American plane can really just hose away & have a good chance of getting a kill.

To be honest tho the biggest problem i have with the zero is the canopy bracing. In real life this wouldn't pose too much of a problem for tracking bogies but in the game that framework blocks alot of your field of view.

I'm looking forward to giving the Ki43 a go. This plane should be great fun to fly. It's so SLOW that it will have a hard time engaging but defensive flying can be fun too. (but obviously not all of the time.)

My fav in EAW was the Ki-44 & I really hope we get this one before too long. The early versions just have 4 heavy mgs, but with 2 in the cowl that's more firepower than the P51B-(mg quality aside.)

i know everyone loves the corsair but I'm hoping the Hellcat will live up to my expectations. Many Japanese aces seemed to find it a more dangerous opponent than the Corsair. (insert navy vs. marines debate here.)

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 04:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
The bottom line is I grew up loving American planes, and wouldn't fly anything else. even if they were total junk in FB/PF, i'd still fly them. I'm also old enough to remember Pearl Harbor.

btw..I've never thought while I watched a 109 climb away "Go ahead and climb away like a girl" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. But if you've watched Corsair, P-51s and Hellcat pilots do it in a straight beeline or a dive, that phrase does come to mind. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen plenty of FW190/Doras dive away and run..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BigganD
10-22-2004, 04:40 PM
ki100!!! or the ki64 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Airmikey2
10-22-2004, 05:10 PM
I gotta agree with the canopy bracing.. otherwise the zero is agreat fighter...bums me out a bit, cause I lovesd the zero in "that other game.."

Airmikey

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 05:19 PM
Saburo, all an Oscar is is a Zero without the cannon.

It can actually outturn a Zero, but the Zero already outturns the American iron, so the difference is negligible there.

At least, when you get in tight in a Zero, you can make the target HURT with those 20mms. With the Oscar, you merely find yourself in a situation to scratch the paint. And at 250 rpg, half the Zero's compliment, you can barely get that done.

Oscars are *really* frustrating to fly.

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 05:29 PM
Stiglr where are you from?

LeLu_Repo
10-22-2004, 06:02 PM
We can take slow fight, you in any american plane, me in zerohttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And if you stay fast it is easy to avoid youhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Offcourse it is different in multiple hostile environmenthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeLu_Repo:
Japanese planes are just finehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Well I dont know about KI-61 it seems sluggish, but at least it is faster than P40-B and F4F3http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I zero it is easy to avoid attack by F4F and Corsairs if you spot them, Hellcat is more trickier.

One tip for zero flyers..

At 280kmh pull up as hard as you can, nothing can follow youhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

chris455
10-22-2004, 06:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by BuzzU:
The bottom line is I grew up loving American planes, and wouldn't fly anything else. even if they were total junk in FB/PF, i'd still fly them. I'm also old enough to remember Pearl Harbor.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not old enough to remember Pearl harbor- but I am old enough to remember when BuZZu used to fly a P-39 because the Iron Dawg was the only U.S. iron in IL2- so the above quote really is true- and BuZZ, you may as well be speaking for me here too- as far as our love for U.S. planes goes.

@ Stiglr- Two of America's top aces in the Pacific theater were killed fighting Oscars
(Neel Kearby and Tommy Mcguire) plus many others, and I don't think they died of scuffed paint- FYI.

LeLu_Repo
10-22-2004, 06:06 PM
But was it not like that, they where fast, zero was slow, still Saburo managed to stay alive against 8 Hellcats attacking himhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Try and fly Wildcat against zero, that is the pity onehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
You guys notice how quickly people are finding mistakes in the FMs in PF (like the dive mistake on Tony; surprise, it negatively affects an Axis plane; also how the US planes can make sustained low speed turns with little E loss and no stall), and how quickly the topic gets locked?

To geetarman: OK, OK, that was a bit harsh... "run like WOMEN". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For repo: it can be tricky to avoid the hated US spray and pray attack if the speeds are high and the Zero is more sluggish in response...especially when those 6 or 8 .50s can quickly fill a space with lead at relatively long ranges, and only a few hits can flame a zero or hit a control surface...

There is no worse a position to be in in a Zero than to be subject to multiple Corsairs, Hellkitties or P-51s making repeated highspeed slash attacks, while you try to dodge them and escape!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WUAF_Badsight
10-22-2004, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
*phew* does any of that make sense?

TB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
110%

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 06:14 PM
I read some guys saying the Wildcat turns with the Zero in PF. Doesn't sound right, but is it true?

LeLu_Repo
10-22-2004, 06:18 PM
Well BS, hehehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have been flying FW and 109 against yaks and other since IL2. And I tell you, it is easy to avoid SINGLE attack bu any american bird in zero if you know what you are doing in your zero..Same goes for Yaks against 190 etc..

I was not talking about luring faster fighter into slow fight with Zerohttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif One who does that is easily downed, and may i say, he is plain stupidhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Offcourse it is different in mulitiple hostile environmenthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In any case it is more challenge to fly zero than any post 1941 american plane.

I am just waiting for NIK-J or KI-100 to shut your mouthhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeLu_Repo:
Japanese planes are just finehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Well I dont know about KI-61 it seems sluggish, but at least it is faster than P40-B and F4F3http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I zero it is easy to avoid attack by F4F and Corsairs if you spot them, Hellcat is more trickier.

One tip for zero flyers..

At 280kmh pull up as hard as you can, nothing can follow youhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's utter BS. It only works if the American who's pursuing you is ******ed enough to follow you into an energy bleeding maneuver. A real killer will just extend and slaughter you at another opportunity.

Here's what I've been saying for quite a while before PF came out. If you're an American pilot, you are going to be far from a NOOB. In order to succeed as an American, you will have to learn certain skills to survive and to kill: High angle deflection shooting (by high angle I mean 90 degrees standard) and high speed gun lead, energy judgement, energy conservation, a basic understanding of aerodynamics, and extreme discipline in order to keep from getting duped into pulling an energy bleeding turn just to make a shot that you will probably miss anyway. Fw190 and P47 fliers will excel in American warbirds, because they will not rely on their plane's good turning ability, which is still inferior to most Jap. planes, so long as they subscribe to the same tactics they used when flying the butcherbird or Jug. American planes are invincible when they fully exploit their advantages and enter the battle with energy advantage. A pilot gets shot down when he overestimates his energy state relative to his opponents, or if he gets greedy and puts all of his cards into one maneuver that will leave him with nothing when a bandit gets on his tail. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 06:23 PM
Chris: IIRC, didn't Maguire die because he was chasing Bong's record, neglected to drop his aux fuel tanks and spun in trying to maneuver with an Oscar (albeit a well piloted one)? That Oscar maneuver killed him, and didn't shoot him down.

The other guy I don't know about.

I didn't say Oscars couldn't kill planes, they sure did it plenty earlier in the war. But those were Buffaloes, tired out Hurricanes and **** like that. But against a heavily armored American plane (fighter or bomber) in late war, they'll be hard pressed to do it. I suppose you can fly PF and see for yourself.

====================================
Repo: what I said is still true. Yes, Sakai managed to do it... once ... and I recall one time I managed to survive getting team B&Zed by four or five late war birds in Target:Rabaul (and actually shot one down and manuever killed another); but I think that was due more to luck being on my side than anything else. It was a VERY near thing, and I limped home with damage after they got distracted and went after other Japanese planes that showed up. Most of the time, I couldn't fire at one plane because I had to watch another one bearing in for a gunpass. I had to be VERY patient, and I flew mostly to survive rather than to kill at that point. So, it can be done...but much more often, one of those spray and pray passes will connect and, bye bye Zero. Even a glancing blow can ruin your day in a Zero. Even worse, in a zero, you almost NEVER have the option to "run like a girl". Everybody you're up against is faster than you.
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Buzzu, what's it matter where I'm from? Just want to know before I answer the question.

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 06:29 PM
Because you really have it out for American planes and anybody who flys them. I just want to see how that fits in to who you are. It helps me to understand who i'm talking to.

LeLu_Repo
10-22-2004, 06:30 PM
No Wildcat does not turn with Zero, neither does Corsair. We have not tested Hellcat yet.

Depends offcourse speed and initial situationhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Repo-
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
I read some guys saying the Wildcat turns with the Zero in PF. Doesn't sound right, but is it true? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 07:29 PM
To Buzzu,

Ah. I see.

I'm from the good old USA.

I don't have it in for US planes, by the way. I happen to have a soft spot for Corsairs from my Baa Baa Blacksheep days of youth. I DO have it in for overmodelled, propagandized "John Wayne-idealized" US planes, because that's usually the case. It's almost a tradition in flight simming to "**** on the Axis planes" to better ensure the guys in the white (red?) hats win. I usually end up being the loud, annoying opposition voice that simply wants ALL planes modelled right, warts and all, and let the players decide it.

By the way, I also have it in for overmodelled, propagandized Soviet planes as well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 08:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
To Buzzu,

Ah. I see.

I'm from the good old USA.

I don't have it in for US planes, by the way. I happen to have a soft spot for Corsairs from my Baa Baa Blacksheep days of youth. I DO have it in for overmodelled, propagandized "John Wayne-idealized" US planes, because that's usually the case. It's almost a tradition in flight simming to "**** on the Axis planes" to better ensure the guys in the white (red?) hats win. I usually end up being the loud, annoying opposition voice that simply wants ALL planes modelled right, warts and all, and let the players decide it.

By the way, I also have it in for overmodelled, propagandized Soviet planes as well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, and you may remember me always saying I want all the planes as accurate as possible in the past. Don't you think the US planes in AEP are done well? I still don't understand why you put them down, or put down flyers if they use real tactics? I love the P-51 and try to fly it like the real pilots did. Sometimes that means using it's speed to escape. Sometimes you're out numbered, out of ammo, or whatever. a smart pilot does what he has to if he expects to survive.

carguy_
10-22-2004, 08:39 PM
All I have to say take a Ki61 for a spin asap dudes.You`ll be begging for a G6early.

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 08:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
All I have to say take a Ki61 for a spin asap dudes.You`ll be begging for a G6early. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're the only one who likes that plane.

WUAF_Badsight
10-22-2004, 08:48 PM
in tests the Ki-61 out-performed the E3 Emil & P-40 & LaGG-3 in everything

it should fly like a slightly better Emil

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 10:10 PM
BuzzU wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Don't you think the US planes in AEP are done well? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, some of them. Others not so much. But to be honest, it's taken a lot of complaining (some would call it whining, since it takes away some of their "gifted advantages") to get some changes made to get some planes to be reasonably well modelled. Or at least for the overall modeling effort to be correct and fair.

There are many here with an "entitlement sense" that if they fly (fill in name of popular US/Allied plane), they should be all but invincible, even when they fly the machine totally wrong. Witness all the people who *****ed about P-47s and never got above about 3K feet where they could use it's great dive, speed and high alt capabilities. Or those who expected P-51s to turn well on the deck like it was some kind of American Spitfire. The complete utter overmodeling of the P-39s. Those are just a few examples.

On the other hand, sometimes it's not always that non-Axis planes get an advantage, it's that the Axis planes are porked. I don't even have to get into the 109G6 and G6 Late models of earlier versions of IL-2. The entire 109 family's propensity to enter flat spins (which, according to tests from both sides, just didn't happen that often in any combat situation). Or the p*ss-yellow armored glass foisted on late model 109s. Or even the horrendous obscured view of the FW190.

I could go on, but you get my point. Accuracy in this sim has suffered continually during its entire history, and it's always at its worst with the release of a major milestone, like PF being released now.