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View Full Version : Gorbachev, Oleg and the Cold War



RIPelliottsmith
10-29-2004, 09:26 AM
In one of the stranger parts of the Cold War, Gorbachev said to Reagan at the '86 summit talks:

"There is one other important subject. This is the importance of mutual information in our day. ..I propose the following: we will stop jamming Voice of America and you will be able to broadcast what you consider necessary to us, but at the same time you will meet us half-way and help us lease, from you or in neighboring countries, radio stations that would allow us to reach the American people with our point of view...We are for parity in general. In the information field, for example, or in film."

Suppose that Communism and the Cold War was still going strong, and the soviet economy had improved through internal reforms (just pretend!). Think of the computer games. Gorbachev would see that here is a way to get cultural parity, and the nation would get behind high-quality game development. "Forget more planes. We need more plane sims!!" he would proclaim.

We would have new Il-2 flyable planes released every day. Oleg would be a Hero of the Soviet Union, and in charge of hundreds of programmers and artists. All LOMAC planes would be flyable. There would be amazing WW2 tank simulations, or flying a Hind in Afghanistan.

Then the US would decide to combat this, by spending $500 trillion a month on game developments. Falcon 6 would be out, with every plane flyable, and if you have to bail out, it becomes an FP shooter. The games just get better and better....

Sure we may have peace now and the threat of nuclear destruction may have faded, oh but at what cost??

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(it is 4am and I cannot sleep http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif )

TheVoodooPriest
10-29-2004, 09:38 AM
I don't think you're right with that. Have you ever seen "Wargames"?
Apparently all they needed to battle it out was a C 64 and a tic-tac-toe-game...

Chuck_Older
10-29-2004, 09:53 AM
elliot-

Do you recall the Cold War at all?

If the Russians had a thing, then the US wanted a better thing

Your scenario is flawed because the US would then develop it's own sims to combat the "flight sim gap". It sounds funny, but that's what the cold war brought about

See, you are talking about the climate of the end of the Cold War in the same breath as "the Cold War going strong". The two are mutually exclusive. Near the end of the Cold War, the USSR and the USA came to regard each other with onlt a thin layer of mistrust. During the height of the Cold War (when it was "going strong"), the US and the Soviets were enemies. In fact, the US documentably conducted military operations that are only plausibly legal from a certain standpoint, well inside Soviet territorial waters. that was technically an act of war...The Soviets paid relatively small sums of money for traitors in the US to sell out there own country, for military secrets that potentially put US servicemen at risk. Neither the USSR or the USA acted like angels during the Cold War.

If your scenario was fact, there would be no sharing of PC games...

Obi_Kwiet
10-29-2004, 11:21 AM
Yeah, but under that system an I-16 could whip an F-22.

Daiichidoku
10-29-2004, 11:32 AM
It would all lead to what happened in a "star trek" episode...and no, not the PC hogwash that is thg, voyager, ds9..the original one...

2 nations of a planet wage war via computer....once losses are tallied, citizens are chosen at random to be sent to the disintigration chamber to make good the computer created "losses"

TheJoyStick
10-29-2004, 12:36 PM
Commies... Ick.

RIPelliottsmith
10-29-2004, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
elliot-

Do you recall the Cold War at all? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very well. My gf always asks why I read so many books about it still.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If the Russians had a thing, then the US wanted a better thing

Your scenario is flawed because the US would then develop it's own sims to combat the "flight sim gap". It sounds funny, but that's what the cold war brought about <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that is exactly what I said! Was my (sleep deprived) writing that bad?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
See, you are talking about the climate of the end of the Cold War in the same breath as "the Cold War going strong". The two are mutually exclusive. Near the end of the Cold War, the USSR and the USA came to regard each other with onlt a thin layer of mistrust. During the height of the Cold War (when it was "going strong"), the US and the Soviets were enemies. In fact, the US documentably conducted military operations that are only plausibly legal from a certain standpoint, well inside Soviet territorial waters. that was technically an act of war...The Soviets paid relatively small sums of money for traitors in the US to sell out there own country, for military secrets that potentially put US servicemen at risk. Neither the USSR or the USA acted like angels during the Cold War.

If your scenario was fact, there would be no sharing of PC games... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the lecture. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The Cold War reached a height IMHO in 1983. There was no "thin layer of mistrust" at this point -- it was outright hostility. By the time of the 1986 iceland summit, things were getting better.

But what relevance is that? My point is that in 1986 Gorbachev was switching from looking at an arms race to a "culture race". He was obsessed with the world watching american films, tv, radio...without the soviet view being represented. He was in short talks with Reagan about nuclear weapons, and he brings this "cultural parity" up and goes on and on about it. Reagan was shocked.

Anyway, PRETENDING that communism and the cold war were still going strong when computer games came about, the soviets would recognise that here was an area they could achieve the much desired "cultural parity" -- where half the games in the world were Soviet. They would pour resources in. And so would the americans, to counter it. This would be a wonderful world for people like us!

It was not a very serious post.

RIPelliottsmith
10-29-2004, 04:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Yeah, but under that system an I-16 could whip an F-22. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the american's would supply you with a patch so that a mustang would whip a fulcrum.

Maybe the swiss would supply a patch to make it fair...?

Actually I think it would be in soviet best interests to produce balanced games that sold well in the west.

berg417448
10-29-2004, 04:50 PM
Nope...but the Swiss WOULD offer each side Banks to put thier money in.

LEXX_Luthor
10-29-2004, 04:52 PM
Oleg make BoB
Microsoft cancel 4SFC

USA lost the Cold War ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif .... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif .... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Bearcat99
10-29-2004, 04:59 PM
If the cold war were still going on we probably wouldnt have any of this and we would be stuck with CFS3.

Chuck_Older
10-29-2004, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RIPelliottsmith:

It was not a very serious post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No kidding? You didn't mean we should build a time machine? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Red_Russian13
10-29-2004, 05:36 PM
I thought it was funny...even if it was unrealistic.

Franzen
11-01-2004, 06:28 AM
Chuck and Elliot, are you interested in doing a talkshow for CNN? This would definitely boost their ratings. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz Franzen

Heavy_Weather
11-01-2004, 12:19 PM
hey there Elliot, i at least got the keyword in your first post "PRETEND" so yes, it would be pretty neat i think.

sunflower1
11-01-2004, 12:46 PM
From an economic perspective, "mobilization" can be thought of as taking on debt. Part of fighting the second world war for the Soviets was mobilizing intellectual capital. Their "Marshal Plan" started 10-15 years earlier and I use that analogy as loosely as possible. The point is that definitely by the Korean war, Soviet aeronautical expertise stood in its own right, well at least to the extent that their Germans were more or less as good as our Germans. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Just kidding....

So Oleg Maddox's teachers and the investment neccessary to create those schools, the time a nation can devote to basic research, those things all came at great cost, particularly in Russia in the early 20th century.

If Oleg Maddox's country were threatened seriously, he would certainly not be employed in creating niche entertaiment software. He was paid for too dearly.

FB/AEP+PF is part of the peace dividend.

What I want to PRETEND about is Ubi getting a big Christmas out of PF, Oleg decides exactly what he is going to listen to from Stiglr- puts out that last patch, and then he goes and starts on the new flight engine.

I want to see what happens when there isn't any 6 year old code in the game!!!

p1ngu666
11-01-2004, 07:50 PM
new, interesting bugs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

theres a interesting thing on bbc atm, called the power of nightmares, which talks about the cold war and stuff, in part 2 mainly. just cos uve missed it on teh tv doesnt mean ull wont see it, cos suprnova dot org is for all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

just search for nightmares and dl http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

MADMANofMOH
11-01-2004, 07:59 PM
hmmm

ummm

NYET!!!!!!

WTE_Galway
11-01-2004, 08:13 PM
if the cold war was still going on at the intensity of the 50's and early 60's all WWII historical data would still be classified .. both in the USSR and US