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SlickStick
05-03-2005, 08:00 AM
Is it just me or are the sights in the B-25 gunner positions off? I may not know much about the history part, but I would think you'd want to center the plane in the center of the sight to shoot straight, but I swear I have to aim higher or lower and the fat part of the sight blocks what I'm shooting at.

Is there some kind of built-in deflection angle? I was practicing my bomber gunnery the other night and the waist gunners were the worst, but each position seems to not shoot straight for me.

Maybe I'm cross-eyed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

SlickStick
05-03-2005, 08:00 AM
Is it just me or are the sights in the B-25 gunner positions off? I may not know much about the history part, but I would think you'd want to center the plane in the center of the sight to shoot straight, but I swear I have to aim higher or lower and the fat part of the sight blocks what I'm shooting at.

Is there some kind of built-in deflection angle? I was practicing my bomber gunnery the other night and the waist gunners were the worst, but each position seems to not shoot straight for me.

Maybe I'm cross-eyed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

p1ngu666
05-03-2005, 08:15 AM
convergance issues with rear turret, the guns are lower than the sight, so they converge upwards...
u also bounce about in rear gunner seat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

and the side guns dont line up, the mobile front gun is fairly useless.

and we need a b25 with no forward firing guns, cos sometimes they start acting like fighters ingame, so while amusing and sometimes realistic...

we also need the american wet dream, solid nose, 8 50cals, and 4 in the side pack things.
12 forward firing 50cals http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

no cannons, just .50cals, as god intended http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SlickStick
05-03-2005, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
convergance issues with rear turret, the guns are lower than the sight, so they converge upwards...
u also bounce about in rear gunner seat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

and the side guns dont line up, the mobile front gun is fairly useless.

and we need a b25 with no forward firing guns, cos sometimes they start acting like fighters ingame, so while amusing and sometimes realistic...

we also need the american wet dream, solid nose, 8 50cals, and 4 in the side pack things.
12 forward firing 50cals http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

no cannons, just .50cals, as god intended http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Phew, I'm glad to see some confirmation on this one. I thought it was me peepers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">no cannons, just .50cals, as god intended </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I have to say though, I do prefer my fighters with cannons. I like to be able to stick and move quickly, as most assuredly two or three more are on their way to ******** me at any one time, lol. I seem to draw much attention these days, but, meh, it just makes me a better pilot when I have to try harder.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif I've been known to beat a few 2 or 3 on 1s in my day. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

SlickStick
05-03-2005, 01:12 PM
Again, why is this not valid for discussion with the developers?!? Why are the gunner position sights not aligned with the bullets?

Certainly, it's not meant to be this way.

SlickStick
05-03-2005, 05:45 PM
No one else notices this? If it's correctly modelled, I just wanted to understand is all.

JadehawkII
05-03-2005, 06:15 PM
Hey guys,
If any of you ever read about real gunnery from the USAAF, you wil find out that in order to hit your target from the waist gunners positions, you must point the gun AHEAD of (same direction as your plane) or AT or BEHIND (oppsite dirrection from your plane) your target depending on it's direction in relation to your plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Why? well, you have several factors going on here. One is the motion of both your aircraft and your target plus the wind speed and angle then finaly the distance between both. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Say, if both were going 300KMPH in the same direction at a reasonal distance, and you pointed your gun straight at it, chances are it will not hit exactly where you pointed the waist gun if you hit it at all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif It's because of the trajectory of your bullet will arc and NOT go in a straight line due to the reation of the bullet's spin, the wind, your speed and the target's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

So in order to hit a target flying in the same direction you are you need to point the gun AHEAD of it like you were in a fighter doing deflection shooting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Now, if the target was flying oppsite of your planes direction, you would point your gun at or nearly behind target due to the trajectory of the bullets. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Having said all this, this is NOT set in stone because it all depends on the angle of target, speed, distance from your side gun position. I would say pratice makes perfect and pratice is what we all need. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I have no idea if Oleg computed this into the game or not as I have not tried much gameplay from the waist gun positions. Just know this was how it was in real life. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SlickStick
05-03-2005, 06:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JadehawkII:
Hey guys,
If any of you ever read about real gunnery from the USAAF, you wil find out that in order to hit your target from the waist gunners positions, you must point the gun AHEAD of (same direction as your plane) or AT or BEHIND (oppsite dirrection from your plane) your target depending on it's direction in relation to your plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Why? well, you have several factors going on here. One is the motion of both your aircraft and your target plus the wind speed and angle then finaly the distance between both. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Say, if both were going 300KMPH in the same direction at a reasonal distance, and you pointed your gun straight at it, chances are it will not hit exactly where you pointed the waist gun if you hit it at all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif It's because of the trajectory of your bullet will arc and NOT go in a straight line due to the reation of the bullet's spin, the wind, your speed and the target's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

So in order to hit a target flying in the same direction you are you need to point the gun AHEAD of it like you were in a fighter doing deflection shooting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Now, if the target was flying oppsite of your planes direction, you would point your gun at or nearly behind target due to the trajectory of the bullets. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Having said all this, this is NOT set in stone because it all depends on the angle of target, speed, distance from your side gun position. I would say pratice makes perfect and pratice is what we all need. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I have no idea if Oleg computed this into the game or not as I have not tried much gameplay from the waist gun positions. Just know this was how it was in real life. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good points. Thanks for replying.

My question really comes up because as I was sitting on the ground in a B-25 after spawning, I decided to practice a little gunnery and was shooting at the gas tanks on the side of the strip.

I wasn't moving and I was putting the sight dead on the target, but the bullets weren't going where I was shooting. Each of the postions seemed to do the same thing, especially the waist gunner positions.

Now, I'm not an Einstein or anything, but the little hole in the center of the gun with the vertical line, should be where the bullets go, no? Taking into account that deflection shooting would cause me to line that circle up ahead of my target, the bullets should cross through that hole shooting straight, no?

They don't seem to do that for me. If it's me or my game settings, I can fix that. However, if you spawn a B-25 on the ground and pick something to shoot at, it's almost like the sights are not aligned properly, as especially in the waist gunner positions, the bullets cross at a point far from the center of the sight.

Jaws2002
05-03-2005, 11:54 PM
I think this was in the He 111 guner traning mission.
I remember I was shooting baloons aiming behind them.

SlickStick
05-04-2005, 06:40 AM
I totally understand the aiming part, but I tried it again last night. Spawned on the ground and shot from each position.

The waist gunners fire into a blind spot of the sight, the rear gunner shoots low, the nose gunner shoots high and the top turret is the only one that appeared to have the bullets cross the path of the sight center.

If I had a rifle with sights that weren't adjusted properly, not only would I have to account for that while aiming, but also the deflection lead and angle.

I must be missing something because it doesn't make sense to not have a sighted gun before trying to adjust for deflection angle or lead time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

HotelBushranger
05-04-2005, 06:46 AM
I know exactly what you're talkin about Slick. The front and waist guns are completely useless. Just wait till they fly over you or Dead 6 you and waste them with the top and rear guns! The rear gun does appear to have some aiming difficulties sometimes, but taking into consideration how people attacking bombers fly, they fly to you, shoot and fly UP. So most of the time they fly into the bullets wether you're aiming at him or not http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

SlickStick
05-04-2005, 06:23 PM
So, I guess this is also supposed to be this way?!?! If so, why is it not this way in other gunner positions on other planes? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

p1ngu666
05-04-2005, 06:30 PM
im 99% certain its wrong, whats the point of having sights if they arent aligned properly, the front gun is the same...

also dunno wtf this got moved to GD maybe the mod who did it doesnt like bombers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
05-04-2005, 06:41 PM
Check the sites on the He111. Am I mistaken or do they work the same way?

LStarosta
05-04-2005, 06:46 PM
.50 cals? I want that 75mm Howitzer...

SlickStick
05-04-2005, 06:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
Check the sites on the He111. Am I mistaken or do they work the same way? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgr, will do. I seem to not recall having an aiming problem with the He-111, but I always pretty much stay in the ventral gunner position.

SlickStick
05-04-2005, 06:56 PM
I just spawned an He-111-H6 and if there is a slight deflection angle to the gunner positions, it is nowhere near as noticeable as the B-25. All bullets are very close to passing through the center of the sight in every position.

Then, I spawned a B-25 and man, those waist gunner position bullets pass nowhere near the center of the sight. The nose gunner, you can't even see the bullets, as the gun seems to shoot extremely high.

The top turret dead on. The rear gunner, slightly low, but manageable due to the clear type of sight. Hmmmm.....this doesn't seem right.