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View Full Version : Some new light to the Zero 21s top speed!



DIRTY-MAC
10-20-2004, 01:46 PM

Kwiatos
10-20-2004, 02:31 PM
Its hard to say many sources claim that maximum speed reach by A6m2 was 288 knots - 331 mph - 531 km/h. But there are some that claim A6m2 reach only 509 km/h. In PF A6m2 reach 500 km/h.

Kwiatos
10-21-2004, 03:23 AM
bump

Afreaka
10-21-2004, 05:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Its hard to say many sources claim that maximum speed reach by A6m2 was 288 knots - 331 mph - 531 km/h. But there are some that claim A6m2 reach only 509 km/h. In PF A6m2 reach 500 km/h. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
509 km/h is a fair estimate. As it is also what I've seen documented. But as to the max speed in PF I must pass. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

sapre
10-21-2004, 08:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Its hard to say many sources claim that maximum speed reach by A6m2 was 288 knots - 331 mph - 531 km/h. But there are some that claim A6m2 reach only 509 km/h. In PF A6m2 reach 500 km/h. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I tried with no armament, 25%fuel, 5000M in cremea map, and all I can get is 485kmh.
This is clearly undermodelled considering
IJN Aircraft recorded their maximum speed with Full ammo, 50% fuel.

DIRTY-MAC
10-21-2004, 11:09 AM
BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING
FOLLOW THE LINK I POSTED IN THE FIRST TOPIC!

YOU REALLY SHOULDNT MISS IT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Stiglr
10-21-2004, 02:44 PM
A few kph or even a few dozen kph on or off the Zero isn't going to make a huge difference for a smart pilot.

1) The plane is not speedy, except by 1937 - 40 standards. A P-40, a P-39 will outrun it (or catch it).

2) At such speeds, it loses most of its maneuverability. So, its natural adversaries will be able to catch it and kill it in almost any pure tail chase scenario. The only option it has is to extend upward and climb away.

p1ngu666
10-21-2004, 08:03 PM
i couldnt get any more than 470 out of it, couldnt quiet get trim right :\ its in the 460-470 ballpack

thats at 3000 and 5000metres

470 kph = 292.04446 mph according to google http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

its only a smidge better than the brewster atm, u just slowly eek away.
its atleast 20mph down on what that quoted as the lowest figure too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

p1ngu666
10-21-2004, 08:14 PM
i think the army version is a smidge faster, maybe 10kph or so roughly
i cant get em to fly at a perfect straight line, but they cant retain speed past 500 even in a very very shallow climb

p1ngu666
10-21-2004, 08:30 PM
can some other peeps do tests aswell? thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Giganoni
10-21-2004, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i think the army version is a smidge faster, maybe 10kph or so roughly
i cant get em to fly at a perfect straight line, but they cant retain speed past 500 even in a very very shallow climb <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eh? Army version? Army version of what?

WUAF_Badsight
10-22-2004, 12:05 AM
& i quote :

"In an after action interview given in November 1942 Major John Smith, commander of VMF-223 at Guadalcanal, said little about the Zero's performance until asked a direct question and then replied: "They had much more performance than we had. I think they did because we just couldn't stay with them at all, and dog fight at any altitude."

The F4F-4s of VF-5 commanded by Lt. Commander LeRoy Simpler flew against Zeros from a carrier in August 1942 and were land based on Guadalcanal during September and October 1942. Upon returning to the U.S. Simpler was apprised of the test report that said an F4F-4 was equal in speed to a Zero at low level. His comment was that the report was "flat wrong."

k5054
10-22-2004, 03:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>


Mood of the topic. posted Thu October 21 2004 23:05
& i quote :

"In an after action interview given in November 1942 Major John Smith, commander of VMF-223 at Guadalcanal, said little about the Zero's performance until asked a direct question and then replied: "They had much more performance than we had. I think they did because we just couldn't stay with them at all, and dog fight at any altitude."

The F4F-4s of VF-5 commanded by Lt. Commander LeRoy Simpler flew against Zeros from a carrier in August 1942 and were land based on Guadalcanal during September and October 1942. Upon returning to the U.S. Simpler was apprised of the test report that said an F4F-4 was equal in speed to a Zero at low level. His comment was that the report was "flat wrong."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These complaints were passed all the way up to BuAer, which replied on 15th Aug 1945, "Got track?"



Seriously, I respect Rick Dunn as a serious researcher, but the Zero's top speed remains a mystery, and his higher estimates are a little hard to swallow, the A6M would have to be way faster than any other 1000hp radial engined fighter of WW2, and this with a big wing, which would normally not indicate high speed abilities, and no special drag-reducing features at all.

Giganoni
10-22-2004, 03:20 AM
Does the Ki-43 in PF suffer high speed problems too? It doesn't seem like it would have such problems. I wonder if the butterfly flap works on it. I know it doesn't have to do with highspeed stuff, but it is supposed to be automatic.

Fritzofn
10-22-2004, 03:26 AM
the Hayabusa is faster then the Zero, atleast online, it's a purebreed Corsair killer :-))

Giganoni
10-22-2004, 04:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fritzofn:
the Hayabusa is faster then the Zero, atleast online, it's a purebreed Corsair killer :-)) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, you must be joking right? Are you mistaking the Hayate for the Hayabusa? Some pilots in real life thought they were tailing a Hayabusa, but paid the price when they found out it was a Hayate. Max speed of a Ki-43 I was 495kph. I have read online sites that said the Ki-43 I was a better steady climber than the Zero. Zero was a better zoom climber. So maybe in a slight climb the Ki-43 will appear faster than the A6m2.

I was just curious that with its much lower wing loading if it locked up as bad as the Zero does when you go over 350kph or so. Also if the butterfly flap is modeled in the game.

WUAF_Badsight
10-22-2004, 04:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k5054:
These complaints were passed all the way up to BuAer, which replied on 15th Aug 1945, "Got track?". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Kwiatos
10-22-2004, 04:33 AM
According to these suorce :http://www.warbirdforum.com/zerodunn.htm
A6m2 should reach maximum speed ab 331mph (532 km/h) or little better. Now in PF A6m2 reach only 500km/h so is slowiest than Wildcat which reach 526 km/h.

p1ngu666
10-22-2004, 08:53 AM
i couldnt geto 500 without a dive. however i am ill so im not perfect.

when i say army, theres a a6m2 (army) and a6m2-21 (navy - well has carrier gear)

btw the zero is a clean design, theres nothing u can really point to and go omg drag, like 109g6 mg bumbs, 109 canopy etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Giganoni
10-22-2004, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i couldnt geto 500 without a dive. however i am ill so im not perfect.

when i say army, theres a a6m2 (army) and a6m2-21 (navy - well has carrier gear)

btw the zero is a clean design, theres nothing u can really point to and go omg drag, like 109g6 mg bumbs, 109 canopy etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean land based version. Army never used Zeros. I get you now.

p1ngu666
10-22-2004, 11:57 AM
i thought they did? but had slightly diff spec

Kwiatos
10-22-2004, 12:37 PM
Ok made new test: Crimea map, 100% fuel, start alt 5km shalow dive with 0% power at 4550m full power, radiator close.
I reach with overheat engine:
A6m2 - 494 km/h
A6m2 model 21 - 494 km/h

So A6m2 even not reach 500km/h i was so optimistic before http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

According to majority data which show A6m2 max speed 288 knots- 331 mph - 532 km/h A6m2 in PF to too slow , slowier than Wildcat.

p1ngu666
10-22-2004, 07:54 PM
bump

p1ngu666
10-22-2004, 07:55 PM
oh, are other zero speeds off aswell?
they all seem slow from when ive flown against em

p1ngu666
10-22-2004, 09:06 PM
well, i did a dodgy test, i can get 422 out of a ki43 (but boosher had caused me a fuel leak, so maybe do abit better) and zero 2 21 can do 440 or so on the deck, so its 18kmph faster, which isnt much...

Kwiatos
10-23-2004, 02:37 AM
I found very interesting thing. Am62 comparision with Corsair, P-39, Wildcat and P-38:
http://www.warbirdforum.com/diego.pdf

p1ngu666
10-23-2004, 08:24 PM
*reads*

p1ngu666
10-24-2004, 04:48 PM
we should rename this corsair top speed
we would have a 8page thread atleast by now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Kwiatos
10-25-2004, 02:37 AM
yea you right not many are inteseresting in Zero.

WUAF_Badsight
10-25-2004, 02:50 AM
har har http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

DIRTY-MAC
10-25-2004, 04:45 AM
Regarding the texst on the Zero.
Shouldnt fighterpilots accounts be the best sourse you can get, as it was these who have most hours in this aircraft and really know how it performs in extreme sircumstanses (combat)
and against other aircraft?

Tvrdi
10-25-2004, 05:31 AM
u can find a lot of sources on the net (almost all available) claiming that max speed was 331 mph.....like this one:
Performance: Maximum speed 331 mph at 14,930 feet. Cruising speed 207 mph. Initial climb rate 4517 feet per minute. Climb to 19,685 feet in 7 minutes 27 seconds. Service ceiling 32,810 feet. Normal range 1160 miles. Maximum range 1930 miles. Radius of turn with entry speed of 230 mph was 1118 feet. Entering a 180 degree steep turn with an entry speed of 230 mph, the fighter could complete the turn in 5.62 seconds, with an exit speed from the turn of 189 mph. At slower speeds, the turning radius was 612 feet. Normal positive g-load factor was 7g, with a safety factor of an additional 1.8g. Normal negative g-load factor was 3.5g, with a safety factor of an extra 1.8g.


and here u have USN testing results (but questionable as above):
http://www.warbirdforum.com/diego.pdf

on the other hand some sources claiming that the max speed was around 316 mph (508 kmh)

in the game we have max speed around 480 khm...

so what is the true max airspeed of the A6M2?

actionhank1786
10-25-2004, 09:08 AM
I'm pretty sure Oleg said that he himself used actual Japanese test data for the Japanese flights models. He said something about the lesser quality of the US done tests on Japanese planes.
I wish i had a link but i remember him saying this somewhere.
So the FM should be somewhat close to actual WWII Japanese planes.

Tvrdi
10-25-2004, 09:18 AM
so he used actual USN test data for USN planes.,..those were done with more quality? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG53Frankyboy
10-25-2004, 05:11 PM
wait the patch and than test again at 4500m http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
10-25-2004, 09:14 PM
a6m5 (later carrier one) is 10kmph too slow i think

well, oleg may well have thought it was mph instead of knots. i think its 288 knots, and thats roughly what we have, but in mph.

i did my tests with 25% fuel, no ammo ad crimea 12 oclock, be good if others could repeat tests, due to u always climb or dive slightly.

p1ngu666
10-26-2004, 09:45 AM
bump http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Kwiatos
10-26-2004, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
wait the patch and than test again at 4500m http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is something what you know and we dont know it?

JG53Frankyboy
10-26-2004, 11:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwiatos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
wait the patch and than test again at 4500m http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is something what you know and we dont know it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif , test again after patch , propably you will be very satisfied http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kwiatos
10-26-2004, 12:12 PM
Hmm sound interesting .....
if only Oleg will fix strange things with lowered best climb speed for all planes and make it like old PF/AEP i will really like PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
10-26-2004, 07:19 PM
well, we can hope
thnx frank http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif