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ProdiGurl
08-15-2011, 07:59 AM
I just got my first AC game a few weeks ago [Brotherhood] & am in LOVE with it. I normally just play FPS games, so I'm really late to this series because it's outside my usual genre http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

But what I wondered is if there are female gamers out there who prefer hot, handsome male lead characters? Or is it just me?

I just posted in the thread poll on general gaming preferences & was hoping they'd consider this for future AC games.

And am I the only one who wants some more "romantic" involvement in the games? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif I don't mean Rated X involvement lol, but more than just 1 scene at the beginning would be great =)
I wonder if guys want that though? I know you don't want it to turn into a virtual chick flick lol - but some flirting & sexual interest in the girls thruout the game would bring some new interest.

For some reason I get more invested or involved in a game if I like my lead character. The Desmond character is nothing I click with, so those scenes don't interest me if he isn't Ezio.

Just wondering . . .

ProdiGurl
08-15-2011, 07:59 AM
I just got my first AC game a few weeks ago [Brotherhood] & am in LOVE with it. I normally just play FPS games, so I'm really late to this series because it's outside my usual genre http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

But what I wondered is if there are female gamers out there who prefer hot, handsome male lead characters? Or is it just me?

I just posted in the thread poll on general gaming preferences & was hoping they'd consider this for future AC games.

And am I the only one who wants some more "romantic" involvement in the games? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif I don't mean Rated X involvement lol, but more than just 1 scene at the beginning would be great =)
I wonder if guys want that though? I know you don't want it to turn into a virtual chick flick lol - but some flirting & sexual interest in the girls thruout the game would bring some new interest.

For some reason I get more invested or involved in a game if I like my lead character. The Desmond character is nothing I click with, so those scenes don't interest me if he isn't Ezio.

Just wondering . . .

xangie1
08-15-2011, 10:38 AM
Hi there, fellow female gamer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Who doesn’t like hot male lead characters? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think it’s wrong to assume that a girl would normally want a female lead. Just as it’s wrong to assume that guys only are interessted in male lead characters. Of course there are some 13-year-olds that think they cannot relate in the same way to a female lead. But a lot of games aren’t intended for that age-range, and I don’t think that the majority of gamer-guys do have a problem with that.

The only thing that bothers me is the way some (not all of them) female characters are reduced to sex, rather than good character and developpement. So it’s always a little more shallowith a female lead. And on top of it almost wear no clothes. Even Lucy changed a lot from ACI to AC2. And not for the better, IMHO.

Maybe it’s because of these reasons that I am more comfortable with a male lead. The focus is mor on the character. I’m sue that they care enough to make them look, cool and sexy as well but it’s a lot more subtle.

I can’t complain about Desmond/Altair/Ezio (it’s the same model). Very handsome, and Ezio is quite charming as well. I hope that in Revelations Desmond get’s a little more personality. We know too little of him. And compared to what we know of Ezio, Altair could get and info update as well.

I like Nathan Drake, too. It looks like November will be a game-intense month for me *lol*

As for the romance part in AC it was well dosed. At least for me. It really depends if it fits the story or not and in the case of AC I think that it's well done. I would like to know who will be Ezio's wife, though. In the Embers trailer there's a woman with a child. But I assume that it's his daughter with her child and not his wife (waaaay to young!!).

kriegerdesgottes
08-15-2011, 10:41 AM
I don't mind there being a little romance but I don't want it to go the Superman Returns route either and go overboard and ruin the story. He's still an assassin after all this isn't Twilight.

HIBEE12
08-15-2011, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
I don't mind there being a little romance but I don't want it to go the Superman Returns route either and go overboard and ruin the story. He's still an assassin after all this isn't Twilight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
yh,same, but isn't there romance already i mean in ac2 we had ezio and cristina an in acb we had caterina sforza,

SlimeDynamiteD
08-15-2011, 10:59 AM
I think a little more Romance would do the game good.
For example: In "Uncharted 2: Among Thieves" they did really well with the Romance between Drake and Chloe, and later with Elena.

It wouldn't hurt to put in a little more romance, to have more variety in the game, instead of only being focused on the assassinations and stuff.

HIBEE12
08-15-2011, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlimeDynamiteD:
I think a little more Romance would do the game good.
For example: In "Uncharted 2: Among Thieves" they did really well with the Romance between Drake and Chloe, and later with Elena.

It wouldn't hurt to put in a little more romance, to have more variety in the game, instead of only being focused on the assassinations and stuff. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yh, but in u2 they made it a bit cheeky, i can see ac doing that as long as it stays to the story (not to cheeky) but im sure there will be some in acr, or at least embers

Jexx21
08-15-2011, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xangie1:
Hi there, fellow female gamer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Who doesn’t like hot male lead characters? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think it’s wrong to assume that a girl would normally want a female lead. Just as it’s wrong to assume that guys only are interessted in male lead characters. Of course there are some 13-year-olds that think they cannot relate in the same way to a female lead. But a lot of games aren’t intended for that age-range, and I don’t think that the majority of gamer-guys do have a problem with that.

The only thing that bothers me is the way some (not all of them) female characters are reduced to sex, rather than good character and developpement. So it’s always a little more shallowith a female lead. And on top of it almost wear no clothes. Even Lucy changed a lot from ACI to AC2. And not for the better, IMHO.

Maybe it’s because of these reasons that I am more comfortable with a male lead. The focus is mor on the character. I’m sue that they care enough to make them look, cool and sexy as well but it’s a lot more subtle.

I can’t complain about Desmond/Altair/Ezio (it’s the same model). Very handsome, and Ezio is quite charming as well. I hope that in Revelations Desmond get’s a little more personality. We know too little of him. And compared to what we know of Ezio, Altair could get and info update as well.

I like Nathan Drake, too. It looks like November will be a game-intense month for me *lol*

As for the romance part in AC it was well dosed. At least for me. It really depends if it fits the story or not and in the case of AC I think that it's well done. I would like to know who will be Ezio's wife, though. In the Embers trailer there's a woman with a child. But I assume that it's his daughter with her child and not his wife (waaaay to young!!). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not his daughter. It is his wife. You meet here in Revelations. She causes Ezio to think about what his life would be like if he wasn't an Assassin. I think her came is Sofia Sorto.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sofia_Sorto

Sevenofnine-st
08-15-2011, 11:31 AM
I definitely love hot male lead characters and Ezio and Nathan Drake are at the top of my list, as is Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell. My only gripe is that sometimes their hotness can actually distract me from the gameplay but that's another story... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

That being said, as a female gamer I don't really have a preference when it comes to playing as a female lead or a male lead although if given the choice (such as in Mass Effect or Dragon Age), I usually go for a female on my first playthrough. But it's really all about how the character is crafted and developped in relation to the story.

As for romance, yes, I do wish there was more of it in video games so long as it fits well into the story and is not overdone. In AC2, I thought it was done perfectly and it only made me love Ezio even more. He truly is a great character and I'm going to miss him very much once his saga is over... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

By the way, if you like romance in your AC you really should play AC2 asap once you're done with Brotherhood. Ezio is totally irresistible in it, especially when he was younger. So cute! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Randy 355
08-15-2011, 11:48 AM
Well, as a male gamer I don't really mind what gender the protagonist is, as long as they have an interesting story and a good voice actor. That being said I do like Ezio a lot and a little more romance wouldn't be awful, but Ubisoft would have to be careful not to go overboard. Maybe they could even have optional romance missions? Sounds odd, but who knows.

I myself chose and made my own fem-shep for mass effect, and I couldn't imagine it any other way. I love my fem-shep!

Stowdace
08-15-2011, 12:15 PM
Since Ezio is supposed to carry on his bloodline and has not had a child yet(Not that we know of) I'm sure he'll have a love interest in Revelations.

xangie1
08-15-2011, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:

Not his daughter. It is his wife. You meet here in Revelations. She causes Ezio to think about what his life would be like if he wasn't an Assassin. I think her came is Sofia Sorto.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sofia_Sorto </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's stated nowhere that the woman we see in the Embers trailer is Sofia Sorto. And it's not yet revealed what kind of relationship he'll have with her. We know that he feels a connection to her but remains quite distant. It could well be that the woman shown in the trailer is his daughter he had with Sofia.

It's strange that Ezio is so old when that woman seems quite young. Even too young for Sofia Sorto. We don't have a good shot of her in the trailer, though. So she might be older on a closer look.

We'll see as soon as the movie comes out.

Edit: ah, look it seems that it's his doughter after all. His doughter Flavia and his son Marcello.
http://assassinscreed.wikia.co...in%27s_Creed:_Embers (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed:_Embers)

lukaszep
08-15-2011, 12:34 PM
I don't mind romantic storylines in videogames really. If it's important to the story and isn't just added on for no real reason then it's cool. Like in AC with the whole bloodline stuff then it doesn't bother me at all it's just another part of the story. And then in Uncharted, the romance is subtle throughout but it's there and is good for the story and characters and to be honest.. i don't think Uncharted would be the same without the characters chemistry.
Also, as a male gamer, as long as it's not twilight, romance doesn't matter cause if it's a hot male lead then that usually means theres a hot female lead so..

kriegerdesgottes
08-15-2011, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xangie1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:

Not his daughter. It is his wife. You meet here in Revelations. She causes Ezio to think about what his life would be like if he wasn't an Assassin. I think her came is Sofia Sorto.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sofia_Sorto </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's stated nowhere that the woman we see in the Embers trailer is Sofia Sorto. And it's not yet revealed what kind of relationship he'll have with her. We know that he feels a connection to her but remains quite distant. It could well be that the woman shown in the trailer is his daughter he had with Sofia.

It's strange that Ezio is so old when that woman seems quite young. Even too young for Sofia Sorto. We don't have a good shot of her in the trailer, though. So she might be older on a closer look.

We'll see as soon as the movie comes out.

Edit: ah, look it seems that it's his doughter after all. His doughter Flavia and his son Marcello.
http://assassinscreed.wikia.co...in%27s_Creed:_Embers (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed:_Embers) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They said at comic con that that is indeed his wife and you see his little daughter Flavia in the trailer and they also mention his son Marcello.

xangie1
08-15-2011, 12:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:

They said at comic con that that is indeed his wife and you see his little daughter Flavia in the trailer and they also mention his son Marcello. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then I reeeally hope that this woman looks younger than she is ^^'''

kriegerdesgottes
08-15-2011, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xangie1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:

They said at comic con that that is indeed his wife and you see his little daughter Flavia in the trailer and they also mention his son Marcello. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then I reeeally hope that this woman looks younger than she is ^^''' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol I guess it doesn't really matter too much but I agree I hope that is the case too.

iNt0xiCaT3dSainT
08-15-2011, 01:10 PM
In AC:R Ezio falls in love with some young lady im looking forward to that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

albertwesker22
08-15-2011, 02:23 PM
Ezio is 52 in Revelations, and Sofia is described as a young woman. So I'm guessing she is like 25-27. So yeah, much younger than Ezio.

Not really that shocking, Ezio can smooth talk anybody.

Sevenofnine-st
08-15-2011, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albertwesker22:
Ezio is 52 in Revelations, and Sofia is described as a young woman. So I'm guessing she is like 25-27. So yeah, much younger than Ezio.

Not really that shocking, Ezio can smooth talk anybody. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not only that but back then it was quite common for men to marry women who were young enough to be their daughter so I wouldn't be surprised if Sofia was indeed much younger than Ezio when they got married. Besides, Pappi Ezio is still smokin' hot at 52. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

E-Zekiel
08-15-2011, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
I don't mind there being a little romance but I don't want it to go the Superman Returns route either and go overboard and ruin the story. He's still an assassin after all this isn't Twilight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm gonna go ahead and point out (mind you, I haven't read the books, but I get the impression they're the same way) that Twilight is a terrible example of good romance. Are the bonds strong between characters? Extremely. Is the romance itself totally unreal and ludicrous? No, there are people that are that needy and lovestruck. But the problem is....THERE IS NO REASON OR FOUNDATION FOR IT. One minute, it's hey, who's that hot person over there...the next it's I CAN'T EVE LIVE WITHOUT YOU NO MATTER WHAT EVER EVEN THOUGH I BARELY KNOW YOU AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.


Anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albertwesker22:
Ezio is 52 in Revelations, and Sofia is described as a young woman. So I'm guessing she is like 25-27. So yeah, much younger than Ezio.

Not really that shocking, Ezio can smooth talk anybody. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I understand it, Ezio is actually becoming less of a playboy in Revelations, and more real...more of a wise mentor/teacher type, and I think that's what'll snag him that more meaningful relationship.

I think he was kind of hoping for a meaningful one with Caterina (poor guy) but she had things she had to deal with, and so did he, and he didn't really get his meaning across seriously enough for her to give him a ton of thought. Especially when she had kids to see to.

albertwesker22
08-15-2011, 03:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As I understand it, Ezio is actually becoming less of a playboy in Revelations, and more real...more of a wise mentor/teacher type, and I think that's what'll snag him that more meaningful relationship.

I think he was kind of hoping for a meaningful one with Caterina (poor guy) but she had things she had to deal with, and so did he, and he didn't really get his meaning across seriously enough for her to give him a ton of thought. Especially when she had kids to see to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never really understood why Ezio liked Caterina to be honest. In the database, it says she frequently had enemies wives and children killed. I would have thought Ezio would be really sore about that(Considering what happened to his family).

thornebrook
08-15-2011, 03:16 PM
Another female gamer here, but not really a big fan of romance, though I don't mind it. I'm very appreciative of the hot male chars, of course, and I actually really like the female characters in AC. What I'm not too fond of is how some of the more prominent female chars usually seem to end up kidnapped/injured/killed just for that extra dose of drama for the protagonist, when they prove to be perfectly capable otherwise. But it's a minor complaint.

I don't really care what gender the protagonist is either at this stage, so long as the character's interesting. It always weirds me out when I hear other people say they don't want a protagonist of the opposite gender because they find it harder to identify with him/her, because, really, that shouldn't be an issue, IMHO.

FYTJ
08-15-2011, 03:28 PM
That's an interesting question. No, seriously! It's a refreshing change from the usual "OMG! He so HAWT!" kinda comments from girl players.

Actually, I believe it just comes down to personal preference and that it's not something that has to do with the player being a girl or a guy.

I'm a girl and I like to play both, male and female characters. If given the choice I'll just pick the one I feel like picking for a particular game. So just to give you an example: I ended up picking a girl in Fallout 3 and a guy in Mass Effect. I felt that I should pick a girl in Fallout because I liked how suiting it was with that whole "rebel and break out of your Vault"-thing. I chose a man in Mass Effect because I wanted there to be nothing "soft" about my character. I wanted him to be sheer force, almost brute-like, almost robotic from not having grown up on earth.
Storytelling, I guess.

Now, since we're speaking of Ezio in particular, I disliked him. While I absolutely loved playing the silent and broody Altair in AC I felt that Ezio was on the brink of cheesy. Cheesy characters like that make me uncomfortable, I can't help but think they're such Mary-Sues... AC was dark, serious. Granted, you could argue that it had to do with the time it was set in or the particular effort the developers put in making it as non-fantasy as possible so the game (which was not yet a franchise back then, remember) would not be misunterstood. But I still liked the atmosphere. Consipiracy? Templars? Ancient god-like people who kept us as trained pets? Yeah, I'd like my serving of that topped with a lot of darkness, please. Even Italians can be dark, come on.

But then again, I do have a knack for anti-heroes. They're interesting like that.

thornebrook
08-15-2011, 03:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
That's an interesting question. No, seriously! It's a refreshing change from the usual "OMG! He so HAWT!" kinda comments from girl players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or the "OMG! S/he so HAWT!" kind of comments from some boy gamers? :P One sex doesn't really have the monopoly on fangasms, haha.

Jexx21
08-15-2011, 03:39 PM
Did you read The Secret Crusade FYTJ? It expanded on Altiar's character quite a bit past dark and broody.

ProdiGurl
08-15-2011, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's an interesting question. No, seriously! It's a refreshing change from the usual "OMG! He so HAWT!" kinda comments from girl players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey thanks. I'm not a teenager and I'm not really shallow, so that's why I put more into the question -
As a female, I'm wondering how guys would take more sex/romance in a game like this & FPS games too becuz I honestly would like to see more of it to create a more in depth character & make them more personable.

And by using the word Romance in my Q, I honestly didn't mean what the other poster mentioned about a "Twilight" thing either. Who would want that unless the game was made for a certain audience that would like it.

Like when Ezio rebuilt the Courtisan house, I was expecting he'd find a girl attractive & interesting in there and have a little romp LOL....
That sort of thing - not so much a love interest they can't live without & Pine away for them during the game....

Just wondering if I'm the only oddball wanting more sexy themes like that.

ProdiGurl
08-15-2011, 04:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now, since we're speaking of Ezio in particular, I disliked him. While I absolutely loved playing the silent and broody Altair in AC I felt that Ezio was on the brink of cheesy. Cheesy characters like that make me uncomfortable, I can't help but think they're such Mary-Sues... AC was dark, serious. Granted, you could argue that it had to do with the time it was set in or the particular effort the developers put in making it as non-fantasy as possible so the game (which was not yet a franchise back then, remember) would not be misunterstood. But I still liked the atmosphere. Consipiracy? Templars? Ancient god-like people who kept us as trained pets? Yeah, I'd like my serving of that topped with a lot of darkness, please. Even Italians can be dark, come on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Cheezy? I didn't get that at all - but then, this is my very first AC game so I have nothing before this to compare it to or base anything on.

What I don't like is the real Desmond - he's just nerdy and I find nothing interesting about him. Those scenes with him & the crew kind of remind me of Scooby Doo cartoons lol.

I plan to buy AC2 and at least get some backstory from it and see how it compares.

FYTJ
08-15-2011, 04:23 PM
Which is why I did not read it. Actually I also disliked what they did to him in ACII (and yes, I insist on did to him). It didn't felt true to who he was in AC and I have the sneaky suspicion they're trying to please the fans and especially their more "romantic" expectations. I mean, it's totally ok for Altair to fall in love, that's not what disturbs me. Be flower-framed medievally completely inacurrate portraits? That's too much for my taste.

Bear in mind that the books, the games, the comics... are meant to sell. So obviously you want them to please the people who buy them. Ubisoft expected people who pick up a book on AC to expect background, details and especially intimacy. So they delivered.
Mind you, I am not saying that I do not like the whole Assassin's Creed story. On the contrary, the fact that it is so story-heavy is one of the things I most like about the game.

But I still prefer games who tell stories that are different. I want unexpected characters and I want writers to run with their characters. If Altair had been that (let's call it) "cheery" in AC I wouldn't have minded. But he wasn't, and I honestly believe they made him like this because they thought this is what we wanted him to be. Maybe I'm just a hopeless unromantic but feel slightly cheated. It's not really dramatic since, as I said, I just won't read the books then. But still, it feels unlike the original Assassin's Creed atmosphere.

Then again I really liked ACII. It's not that I didn't like the story in ACII itself. I was just a little dissapointed because of what I had been given in AC, that's all.

ProdiGurl
08-15-2011, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't really care what gender the protagonist is either at this stage, so long as the character's interesting. It always weirds me out when I hear other people say they don't want a protagonist of the opposite gender because they find it harder to identify with him/her, because, really, that shouldn't be an issue, IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm fine with male or female too. Mass Effect 2 allowed you to choose male or female and I chose a male too - and then custom made a great character =D

I think I'm just different where I need to connect and have a deeper interest in my character's role?

In RDR, [SPOILER ALERT - don't read this] I lost interest 1/2 way into the game becuz the main character (Marson) get's killed off & you assume his son's character.
Well, his son was annoying in the game, and when I had to play him, I shut it down & put ACB in instead.

It's probably just me. :/

ProdiGurl
08-15-2011, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Mind you, I am not saying that I do not like the whole Assassin's Creed story. On the contrary, the fact that it is so story-heavy is one of the things I most like about the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here. In my first game-play of this, I sucked and I threw fits trying to get 100% synchs, but the story was so good & the game done so well and I loved Ezio that it kept me involved despite my rage and tantrums lol

I'm playing a second time now & doing alot more assignments (I followed the main memory starts too far ahead & ended the game way too early) - it's just an amazing game. One of my top favorites.

Jexx21
08-15-2011, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
Which is why I did not read it. Actually I also disliked what they did to him in ACII (and yes, I insist on did to him). It didn't felt true to who he was in AC and I have the sneaky suspicion they're trying to please the fans and especially their more "romantic" expectations. I mean, it's totally ok for Altair to fall in love, that's not what disturbs me. Be flower-framed medievally completely inacurrate portraits? That's too much for my taste.

Bear in mind that the books, the games, the comics... are meant to sell. So obviously you want them to please the people who buy them. Ubisoft expected people who pick up a book on AC to expect background, details and especially intimacy. So they delivered.
Mind you, I am not saying that I do not like the whole Assassin's Creed story. On the contrary, the fact that it is so story-heavy is one of the things I most like about the game.

But I still prefer games who tell stories that are different. I want unexpected characters and I want writers to run with their characters. If Altair had been that (let's call it) "cheery" in AC I wouldn't have minded. But he wasn't, and I honestly believe they made him like this because they thought this is what we wanted him to be. Maybe I'm just a hopeless unromantic but feel slightly cheated. It's not really dramatic since, as I said, I just won't read the books then. But still, it feels unlike the original Assassin's Creed atmosphere.

Then again I really liked ACII. It's not that I didn't like the story in ACII itself. I was just a little dissapointed because of what I had been given in AC, that's all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

..he had sex on a tower. In hay. I'm not sure how they made his Character any different in AC2's little bleeding effect sequence.

And to be honest, I didn't like Altiar in the first game. But I did like the Altiar presented in the book. It expanded on some things, like how he didn't like how women were treated during that time, how he didn't like the rafiq in Damascus by thinking about 'how he would look with a hidden blade in his throat'. I really liked the expansion on his character. The reason I didn't like Altiar in the game was mostly because I didn't get to see much of his actual character, and he felt sorta 1-dimensional to me.

LightRey
08-15-2011, 05:15 PM
Just to be clear, Altaïr had already fallen in love once. I think part of his attitude in AC1 can be attributed to this too, since *SPOILER* he had fallen in love with a woman named Adha and she was kidnapped by the Templars before the events in AC1. Adha is briefly mentioned in AC1. *END SPOILER*
Altaïr was always "romantic", he just didn't show it much in AC1, because he was angry at the Templars and arrogant at the beginning of the game. However, he eventually learns to be more humble and respectful to others. This is called character development and it's usually considered a primary requirement for good stories.
Anything else anyone may have seen in Altaïr was purely their imagination.

FYTJ
08-15-2011, 05:28 PM
Okay, I feel I'm going to dissapoint some people here. But you guys DO know that even though the events you mention are chronologically earlier in the story it does not mean they were chronologically earlier in real life, right? The developers came up with those additions after they made AC. They are additions and what I am personally complaining about is those additions not feeling true to the atmosphere of the first game.

And again, I am not complaining about love being in the game. Well, duh, there would be something of the sort in AC. Else how would we have Desmond? I just don't like when things get cheesy. And the notion of cheesy being entirely subjective, you are obviously free to not feel those things to be cheesy. That's up to you.

Of course according to book X and DS game Y "that's just the way things are". That's exactly what I'm not a fan of: I am not a fan of what book X and DS game Y changed. I'm not arguing whether or not they make the game more "romantic". Obviously they do, I know that. I'm entitled not to like it, though.

LightRey
08-15-2011, 05:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
Okay, I feel I'm going to dissapoint some people here. But you guys DO know that even though the events you mention are chronologically earlier in the story it does not mean they were chronologically earlier in real life, right? The developers came up with those additions after they made AC. They are additions and what I am personally complaining about is those additions not feeling true to the atmosphere of the first game.

And again, I am not complaining about love being in the game. Well, duh, there would be something of the sort in AC. Else how would we have Desmond? I just don't like when things get cheesy. And the notion of cheesy being entirely subjective, you are obviously free to not feel those things to be cheesy. That's up to you.

Of course according to book X and DS game Y "that's just the way things are". That's exactly what I'm not a fan of: I am not a fan of what book X and DS game Y changed. I'm not arguing whether or not they make the game more "romantic". Obviously they do, I know that. I'm entitled not to like it, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I will, again, refer to the fact that those events had already been referred to in AC1. The general life of Altaïr had already been thought out.

Ureh
08-15-2011, 06:20 PM
I thought the developement of Altair from AC1 to AC2 (including the thoughts in his codex journal) made sense.

He's like any other human, but was basically brought up as an orphan. I think he felt bitter towards the Brotherhood because it deprived him of a normal life and happiness that he should've had. He didn't even have a say in the matter. To show his indignation, he acts like a stubborn rebel but is also restrained by the Creed because he was brought up to follow it.

But when he talks to one of the Rafik he says, "I should not fear the feelings but embrance them?" He was talking about uncertainty, regret, compassion, etc. This made me think that even to this point he desired a normal life and doesn't like to live as a cold, calculating killer. As soon as he became leader of the Assassins he undid almost all the old traditions so that later generations could have what he couldn't.

Also in AC1, one of the informants brings up Adha by asking Altair if he found her yet. At that point, they never told us who she is and if she means anything to Altair. So one could argue that Adha doesn't have any feelings for Altair because both of them were expected to create offspring to bolster the ranks of the Brotherhood. For all we know, she didn't like this and ran away. Or you could argue that she really was his lover that was missing (we later find out she's missing because she was kidnapped). Ubi decided to follow the latter.

FYTJ
08-15-2011, 06:28 PM
They weren't. In AC I Altair is asked about "how Adha is". Also remember his first encouter with Maria? Did you feel romance in the air? I didn't. (Although I must say, I did feel she was a pretty cool female character.) In AC Chronicles he saves the Adha girl because she is the Chalice. No romance implied. (And, btw, between us, Chronicles was pretty cheesy! Remember that circus chick? The most cliché-ever bellydancer...)

It was only years later and after AC II that we were given so many details about the characters of AC I. I happen to find those details too unlike the general AC II atmosphere and too blatantly "what the audience would like to hear" to have been planned even before AC I was made. But hey, maybe they do have a safe at Ubisoft with "Super secret Assassin's Creed story including complete and detailed biographies of every character in the game - NOT TO BE OPENED BEFORE 2010". Allow me to doubt it, though.*
Also remember the gardens in AC I? They fit the atmosphere, I didn't mind them. The brothels in AC II however were awkward to me. Not because they are brothels, I'm totally cool with that. But simply because Ezio is just not the sexiest thing since sliced bread, nuh uh. The whole game in general seems to often portray women as relatiely "easy". I don't like that "Oh my, is that your sword or are you just happy to see me?" kind of humour. Neither do I like the "It's fine for every woman to be easy as long as they're not your sister". And I know a lot of you won't have been quite as bugged by this as I was. But still, personal preference. I find it cheesy to have to push a button so that the character of the game I'm playing undresses his girlfriend...
I wouldn't have been quite as annoyed if I didn't have to push said button. The cheesy-ness is in the details you see.*

To me AC II was tremendously cheesier than it's predecessor. Having loved its predecessor this dissapointed me a little. That's all. Hope I'm clear enough.
Therefore, even if I enjoyed the game more than I enjoyed the first one, I liked the main character a lot less. *

But am I getting off-topic? Because I'm not sure if I am, feel free to tell me.*

EDIT: @Ureh That's a way you can see it and it's also probably the way Ubi justified the "changes" when they decided to make them in the first place. It makes sense after all.
But what I'm saying is that I still prefered cold-blooded and focused. Call me oldschool (or "psycho", you chose) but I found the atmosphere more enjoyable in the first game. And Altair, too. I get that his development can be "explained" but I'm still not satisfied with the explantaions given. To me, they are too far-feched. (Not your explanations but the actual, canon explanations like in the books etc...)
That's what I mean when I say I feel that Ubi does not "run with" the original spirit of the game.

LightRey
08-15-2011, 06:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
They weren't. In AC I Altair is asked about "how Adha is". Also remember his first encouter with Maria? Did you feel romance in the air? I didn't. (Although I must say, I did feel she was a pretty cool female character.) In AC Chronicles he saves the Adha girl because she is the Chalice. No romance implied. (And, btw, between us, Chronicles was pretty cheesy! Remember that circus chick? The most cliché-ever bellydancer...)

It was only years later and after AC II that we were given so many details about the characters of AC I. I happen to find those details too unlike the general AC II atmosphere and too blatantly "what the audience would like to hear" to have been planned even before AC I was made. But hey, maybe they do have a safe at Ubisoft with "Super secret Assassin's Creed story including complete and detailed biographies of every character in the game - NOT TO BE OPENED BEFORE 2010". Allow me to doubt it, though.*
Also remember the gardens in AC I? They fit the atmosphere, I didn't mind them. The brothels in AC II however were awkward to me. Not because they are brothels, I'm totally cool with that. But simply because Ezio is just not the sexiest thing since sliced bread, nuh uh. The whole game in general seems to often portray women as relatiely "easy". I don't like that "Oh my, is that your sword or are you just happy to see me?" kind of humour. Neither do I like the "It's fine for every woman to be easy as long as they're not your sister". And I know a lot of you won't have been quite as bugged by this as I was. But still, personal preference. I find it cheesy to have to push a button so that the character of the game I'm playing undresses his girlfriend...
I wouldn't have been quite as annoyed if I didn't have to push said button. The cheesy-ness is in the details you see.*

To me AC II was tremendously cheesier than it's predecessor. Having loved its predecessor this dissapointed me a little. That's all. Hope I'm clear enough.
Therefore, even if I enjoyed the game more than I enjoyed the first one, I liked the main character a lot less. *

But am I getting off-topic? Because I'm not sure if I am, feel free to tell me.*

EDIT: @Ureh That's a way you can see it and it's also probably the way Ubi justified the "changes" when they decided to make them in the first place. It makes sense after all.
But what I'm saying is that I still prefered cold-blooded and focused. Call me oldschool (or "psycho", you chose) but I found the atmosphere more enjoyable in the first game. And Altair, too. I get that his development can be "explained" but I'm still not satisfied with the explantaions given. To me, they are too far-feched. (Not your explanations but the actual, canon explanations like in the books etc...)
That's what I mean when I say I feel that Ubi does not "run with" the original spirit of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
First of all he doesn't ask "how Adha is". He asks if he's heard anything of Adha since she left and the answer is no (though Altaïr doesn't say anything, which might just be because they left out what he said or because he was too upset about it to say anything).

There wasn't any romance with Maria at first, because of the whole being tricked by her and her being a Templar agent and all.

As for the whole Ezio experience. Most, if not all of that is actually mostly Italian culture and it's quite accurate. It's just how people behave(d) there. It's actually so bad (no offense to Italian culture of course) that I wouldn't advise any woman or teenage girl to wander the streets of Rome or Florence alone.

FYTJ
08-15-2011, 07:05 PM
See what happened there? You interpreted a game's depiction of a country and its people as accurate.
I have no problem at all with us not agreeing about the good and the bad of character development and atmosphere changes in Assassin's Creed. I even like to hear what other people think of it.
But this has been taken to a whole new level. I am sure you didn't do it on purpose and by no means am I trying to do one of those "attack the interlocutor instead of the interlocutor's arguments" kinda move. I'm just pointing this out since I haven't been active on the forum these past years and I want it to be absolutely clear that I am neither trying to attack you (or anyone else) nor trying to offend you (or anyone else, again).
But I have to point out that just believing that the depiction of Italy and its women in AC II is accurate is jumping to conclusions. I have a personal problem with that.
There's widespread cliches and they tend to hold bits of truth to some extent. But not all French wear striped shirts, not all Americans are war-loving cowboys, not all Germans like Sauerkraut and not all Italian women (not even a majority of them) are "easy".
Maybe I misunderstood you. If I did and I offended you I am sorry, please explain. Also, I know that now I really am off topic. Sorry about that but I really felt this had to be pointed out. I won't go off topic anymore.

[And the fac that the informant asked "how Adha was" does not alter anything about my arguments and how valid they are/are not. Unless it was meant to question my "cred"?]

NewBlade200
08-15-2011, 07:10 PM
I'm fine with romance in games just as long as it is mature about it.

That means no women in clothing you can hardly see while the men are wearing as much as possible. It is insulting to women and the men that you attempt to appeal to with such weak fetishisms and such

Also, be careful of tying the romance too tightly together with the central plot. If the romance is unbelievable, boring or just plain stupid then the plot will be boring as well.

If you cannot handle your romances maturely then perhaps you should sit in the corner and pretend your legos are kissing, while the adults are working.

Jexx21
08-15-2011, 07:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NewBlade200:
I'm fine with romance in games just as long as it is mature about it.

That means no women in clothing you can hardly see while the men are wearing as much as possible. It is insulting to women and the men that you attempt to appeal to with such weak fetishisms and such

Also, be careful of tying the romance too tightly together with the central plot. If the romance is unbelievable, boring or just plain stupid then the plot will be boring as well.

If you cannot handle your romances maturely then perhaps you should sit in the corner and pretend your legos are kissing, while the adults are working. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's with the sudden hostility?

LightRey
08-15-2011, 07:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
See what happened there? You interpreted a game's depiction of a country and its people as accurate.
I have no problem at all with us not agreeing about the good and the bad of character development and atmosphere changes in Assassin's Creed. I even like to hear what other people think of it.
But this has been taken to a whole new level. I am sure you didn't do it on purpose and by no means am I trying to do one of those "attack the interlocutor instead of the interlocutor's arguments" kinda move. I'm just pointing this out since I haven't been active on the forum these past years and I want it to be absolutely clear that I am neither trying to attack you (or anyone else) nor trying to offend you (or anyone else, again).
But I have to point out that just believing that the depiction of Italy and its women in AC II is accurate is jumping to conclusions. I have a personal problem with that.
There's widespread cliches and they tend to hold bits of truth to some extent. But not all French wear striped shirts, not all Americans are war-loving cowboys, not all Germans like Sauerkraut and not all Italian women (not even a majority of them) are "easy".
Maybe I misunderstood you. If I did and I offended you I am sorry, please explain. Also, I know that now I really am off topic. Sorry about that but I really felt this had to be pointed out. I won't go off topic anymore.

[And the fac that the informant asked "how Adha was" does not alter anything about my arguments and how valid they are/are not. Unless it was meant to question my "cred"?] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, I didn't assume it was accurate, I confirmed it was accurate. I actually went to Rome on a school trip a few years back and is was strongly advised that girls travel in large groups and it was mandatory, in part because of Italian culture, that nobody, especially girls, travel alone.

Ureh
08-15-2011, 07:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
They weren't. In AC I Altair is asked about "how Adha is". Also remember his first encouter with Maria? Did you feel romance in the air? I didn't. (Although I must say, I did feel she was a pretty cool female character.) In AC Chronicles he saves the Adha girl because she is the Chalice. No romance implied. (And, btw, between us, Chronicles was pretty cheesy! Remember that circus chick? The most cliché-ever bellydancer...)*

EDIT: @Ureh That's a way you can see it and it's also probably the way Ubi justified the "changes" when they decided to make them in the first place. It makes sense after all.
But what I'm saying is that I still prefered cold-blooded and focused. Call me oldschool (or "psycho", you chose) but I found the atmosphere more enjoyable in the first game. And Altair, too. I get that his development can be "explained" but I'm still not satisfied with the explantaions given. To me, they are too far-feched. (Not your explanations but the actual, canon explanations like in the books etc...)
That's what I mean when I say I feel that Ubi does not "run with" the original spirit of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would agree that Altair was cold-blooded and focused in the early stages of the game, but he was revealed to be a more doubtful person as he learned new things after each target. In the beginning he was rude, arrogant, ignorant, selfish, all the other things you said, and much more but somewhere during the middle he became a new person. So it sort of doesn't make sense to keep him like that if he was almost a different person at the end. Like I said earlier, this "rebel" attitude is probably just a facade to cover up his emotions (like love, compassion, regret, etc) because of his rough upbringing. I'm not saying they should make him a softy now. When he confronted Al Mualim he still showed that he still spoke with a snappy attitude and kept retorting everytime Al Mualim spoke ("So tell me maaaaaaaster, why didn't you turn into a slave too?" and "Then let me go and I'll turn words into action." etc). But before he fought Al Mualim, he talked with Malic in a polite tone and told him to stay safe and try to spare the other assassins.

And since we're considering the events of Chronicles: At the end he yells after her (with both hands cupped against his mouth) and says he will find her. And when he first meets her he's like "Have faith. I promise I won't leave you." He always his this urgency when it comes to her safety and I felt it was not just to get the job done. He really wanted to keep her safe (although he failed badly at that).

Maria's encounter was unexpected. He was in the killing mood and caught off guard. I wouldn't expect him to fall head over heels for her in an instant. Doubly so because of the way he was brought up, Altair seems to be the kind of person that walls their heart off and play hard to get. But deep inside I think he desired someone.

LightRey
08-15-2011, 07:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ureh:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
They weren't. In AC I Altair is asked about "how Adha is". Also remember his first encouter with Maria? Did you feel romance in the air? I didn't. (Although I must say, I did feel she was a pretty cool female character.) In AC Chronicles he saves the Adha girl because she is the Chalice. No romance implied. (And, btw, between us, Chronicles was pretty cheesy! Remember that circus chick? The most cliché-ever bellydancer...)*

EDIT: @Ureh That's a way you can see it and it's also probably the way Ubi justified the "changes" when they decided to make them in the first place. It makes sense after all.
But what I'm saying is that I still prefered cold-blooded and focused. Call me oldschool (or "psycho", you chose) but I found the atmosphere more enjoyable in the first game. And Altair, too. I get that his development can be "explained" but I'm still not satisfied with the explantaions given. To me, they are too far-feched. (Not your explanations but the actual, canon explanations like in the books etc...)
That's what I mean when I say I feel that Ubi does not "run with" the original spirit of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would agree that Altair was cold-blooded and focused in the early stages of the game, but he was revealed to be a more doubtful person as he learned new things after each target. In the beginning he was rude, arrogant, ignorant, selfish, all the other things you said, and much more but somewhere during the middle he became a new person. So it sort of doesn't make sense to keep him like that if he was almost a different person at the end. Like I said earlier, this "rebel" attitude is probably just a facade to cover up his emotions (like love, compassion, regret, etc) because of his rough upbringing. I'm not saying they should make him a softy now. When he confronted Al Mualim he still showed that he still spoke with a snappy attitude and kept retorting everytime Al Mualim spoke ("So tell me maaaaaaaster, why didn't you turn into a slave too?" and "Then let me go and I'll turn words into action." etc). But before he fought Al Mualim, he talked with Malic in a polite tone and told him to stay safe and try to spare the other assassins.

And since we're considering the events of Chronicles: At the end he yells after her (with both hands cupped against his mouth) and says he will find her. And when he first meets her he's like "Have faith. I promise I won't leave you." He always his this urgency when it comes to her safety and I felt it was not just to get the job done. He really wanted to keep her safe (although he failed badly at that).

Maria's encounter was unexpected. He was in the killing mood and caught off guard. I wouldn't expect him to fall head over heels for her in an instant. Doubly so because of the way he was brought up, Altair seems to be the kind of person that walls their heart off and play hard to get. But deep inside I think he desired someone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree.
Btw, did anyone else feel that Altaïr would eventually end up with Maria, even though there were really no clues to them in any way liking each other?

Jexx21
08-15-2011, 07:44 PM
Oh, and Altiar has had a pretty conflicted life.

*SPOILERS*

When he was being trained, he was being trained with Abbas, the Assassin that Altiar talked to in the beginning who said that Altiar always sucked up to Al Mualim. Abbas's father was a spy in the camp of the Saracen army near Masyaf. He got himself caught and was going to be executed by the Saracens if they didn't give out the person who killed one of the generals. That person was Altiar's father. He gave himself up, and later out of guilt Abbas's father committed suicide in Altiar's room after he apologized. Abbas and Altiar then were trained together and they became best friends. But Al Mualim didn't tell Abbas that his father was dead, instead saying he would be gone for a long time. Abbas was always expecting for his father to come home, but Altiar told Abbas his father was dead because he thought that he deserved to know. Abbas thought that Altiar was lying, and tried to kill him in a spar. Altiar ultimately said that he did lie so that he wasn't killed. Altiar said that this is where he thought that he began to get arrogant. Then with the situation with Adha, where he might of fallen in love before the game with her, or somewhere in it. Then he lost her, and it probably had an effect on him. Sadly, that game wasn't covered in The Secret Crusade. I wish it was.

NewBlade200
08-15-2011, 08:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NewBlade200:
I'm fine with romance in games just as long as it is mature about it.

That means no women in clothing you can hardly see while the men are wearing as much as possible. It is insulting to women and the men that you attempt to appeal to with such weak fetishisms and such

Also, be careful of tying the romance too tightly together with the central plot. If the romance is unbelievable, boring or just plain stupid then the plot will be boring as well.

If you cannot handle your romances maturely then perhaps you should sit in the corner and pretend your legos are kissing, while the adults are working. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's with the sudden hostility? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I didn't mean to be hostile. Sorry if I seemed angry.

LightRey
08-15-2011, 08:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NewBlade200:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NewBlade200:
I'm fine with romance in games just as long as it is mature about it.

That means no women in clothing you can hardly see while the men are wearing as much as possible. It is insulting to women and the men that you attempt to appeal to with such weak fetishisms and such

Also, be careful of tying the romance too tightly together with the central plot. If the romance is unbelievable, boring or just plain stupid then the plot will be boring as well.

If you cannot handle your romances maturely then perhaps you should sit in the corner and pretend your legos are kissing, while the adults are working. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's with the sudden hostility? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I didn't mean to be hostile. Sorry if I seemed angry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I largely agree on what you said. Though I have to say that the whole "sex scene" with Caterina at the beginning of the game was a little unnecessary. When I'm reading a book, watching a movie or playing a game I'd like to focus on what's happening in the story, not what's happening in my pants.

NewBlade200
08-15-2011, 09:10 PM
I try not to pay attention to what happens in my pants because it makes me feel sad.

kriegerdesgottes
08-15-2011, 09:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NewBlade200:
I try not to pay attention to what happens in my pants because it makes me feel sad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This thread just took a strange turn lol.

Black_Widow9
08-16-2011, 03:20 AM
Can we please try to remain appropriate...

As a female gamer myself I could care less either way. If the character immerses me in their story then I get into the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ProdiGurl
08-16-2011, 05:07 AM
LOL ya this took a strange turn somewhere. =)

I guess it's just a matter of personal preference. But I totally agree that a real romance (not just a male having random sex) would have to be tied in and done maturely.
But I'd really like to see some of that incorporated at some point w/out it going to Twilight extremes.

I just like more sexual themes in a game for personal relatability & interest in my male characters.
Most games that I've played stay away from that almost entirely. Since most games are rated 'M'ature, they could put some of that into them. I'd like to see .... like Batman messing around with Catwoman - they had a chemistry together.

ProdiGurl
08-16-2011, 05:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I largely agree on what you said. Though I have to say that the whole "sex scene" with Caterina at the beginning of the game was a little unnecessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well in her rescue synch, she tells him that she had sex with him to gain his help and favor for her cause . . so in a way, I think it did matter, but I guess if it wasn't put in there at all, it wouldn't affect the story either way . .

I'm just wondering how they could even incorporate more sexual themes into games without irritating gamers that have different views about this.
Maybe this is why they stay away from it.
There's alot of risk I guess.

I'm ordering ACII today, I can't wait to see the storyline leading up to ACB.

LightRey
08-16-2011, 08:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I largely agree on what you said. Though I have to say that the whole "sex scene" with Caterina at the beginning of the game was a little unnecessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well in her rescue synch, she tells him that she had sex with him to gain his help and favor for her cause . . so in a way, I think it did matter, but I guess if it wasn't put in there at all, it wouldn't affect the story either way . .

I'm just wondering how they could even incorporate more sexual themes into games without irritating gamers that have different views about this.
Maybe this is why they stay away from it.
There's alot of risk I guess.

I'm ordering ACII today, I can't wait to see the storyline leading up to ACB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm fine with them having sex. I just don't really feel the need to look at them while they're doing it. They could just have given a strong hint like in the Rosa Della Virtu after the assassination of Marco Barbarigo.

GallopRider
08-16-2011, 08:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
But I still prefer games who tell stories that are different. I want unexpected characters and I want writers to run with their characters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This! To me, if a game's story is junk, I won't play it. This is why I like Heavy Rain, The Elder Scrolls, and Assassin's Creed. The stories are good!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thornebrook:
I don't really care what gender the protagonist is either at this stage, so long as the character's interesting. It always weirds me out when I hear other people say they don't want a protagonist of the opposite gender because they find it harder to identify with him/her, because, really, that shouldn't be an issue, IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This, too!


Personally, I don't think romance should play a large part in this series. There isn't enough room in the storyline(s) for a lot of romance. And it clashes with the whole assassin thing... Done correctly, romance can add to the story. Done incorrectly, it detracts, distracts, and can seem unprofessional.

LightRey
08-16-2011, 08:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GallopRider:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
But I still prefer games who tell stories that are different. I want unexpected characters and I want writers to run with their characters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This! To me, if a game's story is junk, I won't play it. This is why I like Heavy Rain, The Elder Scrolls, and Assassin's Creed. The stories are good!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thornebrook:
I don't really care what gender the protagonist is either at this stage, so long as the character's interesting. It always weirds me out when I hear other people say they don't want a protagonist of the opposite gender because they find it harder to identify with him/her, because, really, that shouldn't be an issue, IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This, too!


Personally, I don't think romance should play a large part in this series. There isn't enough room in the storyline(s) for a lot of romance. And it clashes with the whole assassin thing... Done correctly, romance can add to the story. Done incorrectly, it detracts, distracts, and can seem unprofessional. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't feel stories need to be different in order to be good. They just need to be well written.

As has been stated before many times, romance is already a great part of the AC storyline. Almost all major characters have been romantically involved with someone in the games and I feel it was worked out well.
I don't get why people like to look at the assassins as cold-blooded, emotionless killers. They're not. Their story is filled with emotion. If anything, its more about philosophical matters than killing.

HIBEE12
08-16-2011, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GallopRider:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
But I still prefer games who tell stories that are different. I want unexpected characters and I want writers to run with their characters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This! To me, if a game's story is junk, I won't play it. This is why I like Heavy Rain, The Elder Scrolls, and Assassin's Creed. The stories are good!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thornebrook:
I don't really care what gender the protagonist is either at this stage, so long as the character's interesting. It always weirds me out when I hear other people say they don't want a protagonist of the opposite gender because they find it harder to identify with him/her, because, really, that shouldn't be an issue, IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This, too!


Personally, I don't think romance should play a large part in this series. There isn't enough room in the storyline(s) for a lot of romance. And it clashes with the whole assassin thing... Done correctly, romance can add to the story. Done incorrectly, it detracts, distracts, and can seem unprofessional. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't feel stories need to be different in order to be good. They just need to be well written.

As has been stated before many times, romance is already a great part of the AC storyline. Almost all major characters have been romantically involved with someone in the games and I feel it was worked out well.
I don't get why people like to look at the assassins as cold-blooded, emotionless killers. They're not. Their story is filled with emotion. If anything, its more about philosophical matters than killing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
i definately agree that the story needs to be good, and that alot of romance is already in the game, i personally don't think it needs anymore, it woudnt hurt but i'd like to get into the main story of ezio and the assassins there does not need to be a sex scence everynow and then (for the sake of it) thats not needed the game is not all about that

LightRey
08-16-2011, 09:05 AM
Speaking of romances, wanna know which one I really enjoyed? Bartolomeo and Pantasilea.

HIBEE12
08-16-2011, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Speaking of romances, wanna know which one I really enjoyed? Bartolomeo and Pantasilea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

haha, his, it was pretty funny, and nice, now theres romance for a game!!

SlimeDynamiteD
08-16-2011, 10:34 AM
Bartolomeo and Pantasilea??
I liked the romance between Bartolomeo and Bianca better...

Bianca must've felt cheated on when she found out between Bartolomeo and Pantasilea... Poor Sword http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

HIBEE12
08-16-2011, 10:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlimeDynamiteD:
Bartolomeo and Pantasilea??
I liked the romance between Bartolomeo and Bianca better...

Bianca must've felt cheated on when she found out between Bartolomeo and Pantasilea... Poor Sword http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL, poor poor bianca

FYTJ
08-16-2011, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
No, I didn't assume it was accurate, I confirmed it was accurate. I actually went to Rome on a school trip a few years back and is was strongly advised that girls travel in large groups and it was mandatory, in part because of Italian culture, that nobody, especially girls, travel alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
<sub>Going to Rome on a school trip does not make you an expert on Italy and Italian culture. Assuming it does is naive.
I have been around Italians all of my life, as a kid I was even fluent in Italian. I have more Italian friends than I can count, including what you can consider "romantic interests". 10 percent of parliamentarians in my country have Italian last names. My sister's best friend is Italian and thus she has been to Italy three times. Actual Italy, not tourist Italy. None of us has ever felt treated inappropriately by any Italian guy. Some of them tend to be quite vain, sometimes even "full of themselves", true. But am I more afraid around them than around any other man of any other background? No, why should I?
It is not true that Italian women are "easy" and it is not true that it is "part of Italian culture" that girls wave to watch out for rapists (which is what you are implying) more than girls in any other country. It's even quite the opposite: Catholic upbringing makes girls and boys anything but "easy". You are expected to bring your girlfriend/boyfriend home, introduce them to your family. This makes things a lot more serious and just breaking up an finding someone else a lot more complicated. Most of my Italian friends have been in a lot less relationships than say my French or German friends. Sleeping over is mostly taboo, too. And a lot of girls and boys stay at their parents' home until they marry, even today. I am from a catholic family with Portuguese background so you can trust me on this.

It is however common sense for girls (and boys, just anyone non-local in general) to be careful in absolutely every major city. I have been to Germany, Switzerland, France and Belgium on school trips and it was always mandatory to travel in groups.
If you chose to let a teacher's or a (tacky guide's) biased little comments à la "Be careful, girls! There's Italians all over the place!" biase you then that's a shame. You're missing out on something: I find Italians wonderful people to be around.

This doesn't have much to do with the subject by now, I know. No need to warn me, I'll stop here. But I couldn't let affirmations like that just standing there when I knew them to be wrong.</sub>

HIBEE12
08-16-2011, 12:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
No, I didn't assume it was accurate, I confirmed it was accurate. I actually went to Rome on a school trip a few years back and is was strongly advised that girls travel in large groups and it was mandatory, in part because of Italian culture, that nobody, especially girls, travel alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
<sub>Going to Rome on a school trip does not make you an expert on Italy and Italian culture. Assuming it does is naive.
I have been around Italians all of my life, as a kid I was even fluent in Italian. I have more Italian friends than I can count, including what you can consider "romantic interests". 10 percent of parliamentarians in my country have Italian last names. My sister's best friend is Italian and thus she has been to Italy three times. Actual Italy, not tourist Italy. None of us has ever felt treated inappropriately by any Italian guy. Some of them tend to be quite vain, sometimes even "full of themselves", true. But am I more afraid around them than around any other man of any other background? No, why should I?
It is not true that Italian women are "easy" and it is not true that it is "part of Italian culture" that girls wave to watch out for rapists (which is what you are implying) more than girls in any other country. It's even quite the opposite: Catholic upbringing makes girls and boys anything but "easy". You are expected to bring your girlfriend/boyfriend home, introduce them to your family. This makes things a lot more serious and just breaking up an finding someone else a lot more complicated. Most of my Italian friends have been in a lot less relationships than say my French or German friends. Sleeping over is mostly taboo, too. And a lot of girls and boys stay at their parents' home until they marry, even today. I am from a catholic family with Portuguese background so you can trust me on this.

It is however common sense for girls (and boys, just anyone non-local in general) to be careful in absolutely every major city. I have been to Germany, Switzerland, France and Belgium on school trips and it was always mandatory to travel in groups.
If you chose to let a teacher's or a (tacky guide's) biased little comments à la "Be careful, girls! There's Italians all over the place!" biase you then that's a shame. You're missing out on something: I find Italians wonderful people to be around.

This doesn't have much to do with the subject by now, I know. No need to warn me, I'll stop here. But I couldn't let affirmations like that just standing there when I knew them to be wrong.</sub> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
agreed, i'm fluent in italian to, just thought i'd add that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

lukaszep
08-16-2011, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NewBlade200:
I'm fine with romance in games just as long as it is mature about it.

That means no women in clothing you can hardly see while the men are wearing as much as possible. It is insulting to women and the men that you attempt to appeal to with such weak fetishisms and such

Also, be careful of tying the romance too tightly together with the central plot. If the romance is unbelievable, boring or just plain stupid then the plot will be boring as well.

If you cannot handle your romances maturely then perhaps you should sit in the corner and pretend your legos are kissing, while the adults are working. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true actually, it's the same in movies. There's always female nudity, especially in horror films for some reason..

kriegerdesgottes
08-16-2011, 01:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NewBlade200:
I'm fine with romance in games just as long as it is mature about it.

That means no women in clothing you can hardly see while the men are wearing as much as possible. It is insulting to women and the men that you attempt to appeal to with such weak fetishisms and such

Also, be careful of tying the romance too tightly together with the central plot. If the romance is unbelievable, boring or just plain stupid then the plot will be boring as well.

If you cannot handle your romances maturely then perhaps you should sit in the corner and pretend your legos are kissing, while the adults are working. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true actually, it's the same in movies. There's always female nudity, especially in horror films for some reason.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the problem is?...lol jk I agree with you.

StarScream391
08-16-2011, 04:44 PM
Look up Hawke in Dragon Age 2 I think you might like that one.
ubisoft should be more artistic like Bioware imo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhq5h0HTeI1qhqxqyo1_500.png

NewBlade200
08-16-2011, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NewBlade200:
I'm fine with romance in games just as long as it is mature about it.

That means no women in clothing you can hardly see while the men are wearing as much as possible. It is insulting to women and the men that you attempt to appeal to with such weak fetishisms and such

Also, be careful of tying the romance too tightly together with the central plot. If the romance is unbelievable, boring or just plain stupid then the plot will be boring as well.

If you cannot handle your romances maturely then perhaps you should sit in the corner and pretend your legos are kissing, while the adults are working. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true actually, it's the same in movies. There's always female nudity, especially in horror films for some reason.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hollywood movie directors must be afraid of <STRIKE>boobs *childish giggling*</STRIKE> women.

FYTJ is right, Italian women (catholic families in general) are more difficult to ''get'' with. I just can't seem to get into a serious relationship with any of them.

LightRey
08-16-2011, 07:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
No, I didn't assume it was accurate, I confirmed it was accurate. I actually went to Rome on a school trip a few years back and is was strongly advised that girls travel in large groups and it was mandatory, in part because of Italian culture, that nobody, especially girls, travel alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
<sub>Going to Rome on a school trip does not make you an expert on Italy and Italian culture. Assuming it does is naive.
I have been around Italians all of my life, as a kid I was even fluent in Italian. I have more Italian friends than I can count, including what you can consider "romantic interests". 10 percent of parliamentarians in my country have Italian last names. My sister's best friend is Italian and thus she has been to Italy three times. Actual Italy, not tourist Italy. None of us has ever felt treated inappropriately by any Italian guy. Some of them tend to be quite vain, sometimes even "full of themselves", true. But am I more afraid around them than around any other man of any other background? No, why should I?
It is not true that Italian women are "easy" and it is not true that it is "part of Italian culture" that girls wave to watch out for rapists (which is what you are implying) more than girls in any other country. It's even quite the opposite: Catholic upbringing makes girls and boys anything but "easy". You are expected to bring your girlfriend/boyfriend home, introduce them to your family. This makes things a lot more serious and just breaking up an finding someone else a lot more complicated. Most of my Italian friends have been in a lot less relationships than say my French or German friends. Sleeping over is mostly taboo, too. And a lot of girls and boys stay at their parents' home until they marry, even today. I am from a catholic family with Portuguese background so you can trust me on this.

It is however common sense for girls (and boys, just anyone non-local in general) to be careful in absolutely every major city. I have been to Germany, Switzerland, France and Belgium on school trips and it was always mandatory to travel in groups.
If you chose to let a teacher's or a (tacky guide's) biased little comments à la "Be careful, girls! There's Italians all over the place!" biase you then that's a shame. You're missing out on something: I find Italians wonderful people to be around.

This doesn't have much to do with the subject by now, I know. No need to warn me, I'll stop here. But I couldn't let affirmations like that just standing there when I knew them to be wrong.</sub> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You keep putting words in my mouth. I never said Italian women are "easy". It's just part of Italian culture that (young) men tend to be "casanovas". Much more than in other cultures. This can be very dangerous for young women in Italy that aren't accustomed to their cultural habits. The main difference with other cultures is that in large Italian cities, as a young woman, you can expect to be hit on by random men on the street. This can be very unnerving if you're alone and on vacation.
Italians are quite well known for this around Europe. I guess one could consider it a stereotype, but does hold truth to it. I'm not saying all Italians are this way, it's just a significantly larger amount than in other countries.

I've also been to Germany, France, the UK, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Switzerland, Austria and Sweden. I have never heard of or experienced any similar cultural behavior in these countries. I'm not saying young women should go there alone, but I am saying they probably won't get hit on by random guys on the street if they do.

ProdiGurl
08-16-2011, 07:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't feel stories need to be different in order to be good. They just need to be well written.

As has been stated before many times, romance is already a great part of the AC storyline. Almost all major characters have been romantically involved with someone in the games and I feel it was worked out well.
I don't get why people like to look at the assassins as cold-blooded, emotionless killers. They're not. Their story is filled with emotion. If anything, its more about philosophical matters than killing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting. Since I haven't played either of the first two, I wouldn't know that yet.
I'll order ACII in the next few days & check that out - I'm not sure if this Altair character's in that one?

I thought this game would be more cold blooded being about assassins (and hoped it would be since I prefer FPS), but it wasn't so I agree with you on that aspect. The game is so well done that I didn't need it to be mass carnage (altho I wished more scenes were that way) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The only thing I'd add about other posts I'm reading is that I'm not strictly talking about a love affair/romance where Ezio or other Protagonists are concerned, any amount of random flirting & messing around can be a nice addition to a game if a deeper romance doesn't fit in a story line.

albertwesker22
08-16-2011, 07:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't feel stories need to be different in order to be good. They just need to be well written.

As has been stated before many times, romance is already a great part of the AC storyline. Almost all major characters have been romantically involved with someone in the games and I feel it was worked out well.
I don't get why people like to look at the assassins as cold-blooded, emotionless killers. They're not. Their story is filled with emotion. If anything, its more about philosophical matters than killing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting. Since I haven't played either of the first two, I wouldn't know that yet.
I'll order ACII in the next few days & check that out - I'm not sure if this Altair character's in that one?

I thought this game would be more cold blooded being about assassins (and hoped it would be since I prefer FPS), but it wasn't so I agree with you on that aspect. The game is so well done that I didn't need it to be mass carnage (altho I wished more scenes were that way) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The only thing I'd add about other posts I'm reading is that I'm not strictly talking about a love affair/romance where Ezio or other Protagonists are concerned, any amount of random flirting & messing around can be a nice addition to a game if a deeper romance doesn't fit in a story line. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Altair has a minor part in AC 2 but you won't get a feel of who he is. Ezio takes front and centre stage in AC 2, thats good because Ezio has a big story to be told.

You will see that "flirting and messing around" alot in AC 2.

LightRey
08-16-2011, 07:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't feel stories need to be different in order to be good. They just need to be well written.

As has been stated before many times, romance is already a great part of the AC storyline. Almost all major characters have been romantically involved with someone in the games and I feel it was worked out well.
I don't get why people like to look at the assassins as cold-blooded, emotionless killers. They're not. Their story is filled with emotion. If anything, its more about philosophical matters than killing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting. Since I haven't played either of the first two, I wouldn't know that yet.
I'll order ACII in the next few days & check that out - I'm not sure if this Altair character's in that one?

I thought this game would be more cold blooded being about assassins (and hoped it would be since I prefer FPS), but it wasn't so I agree with you on that aspect. The game is so well done that I didn't need it to be mass carnage (altho I wished more scenes were that way) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The only thing I'd add about other posts I'm reading is that I'm not strictly talking about a love affair/romance where Ezio or other Protagonists are concerned, any amount of random flirting & messing around can be a nice addition to a game if a deeper romance doesn't fit in a story line. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Altaïr makes a short appearance in ACII. It sheds a little more light on his life, but it's only important in the context of the entire storyline.
Ezio does do his share of flirting with girls in the game, but it fits his character nicely. What I like most about him is that in the very beginning he's very down-to-earth, but he slowly evolves into a wise master of the Assassins over time.

FYTJ
08-16-2011, 08:00 PM
I said, precisely:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Also remember the gardens in AC I? They fit the atmosphere, I didn't mind them. The brothels in AC II however were awkward to me. Not because they are brothels, I'm totally cool with that. But simply because Ezio is just not the sexiest thing since sliced bread, nuh uh. The whole game in general seems to often portray women as relatiely "easy". I don't like that "Oh my, is that your sword or are you just happy to see me?" kind of humour. Neither do I like the "It's fine for every woman to be easy as long as they're not your sister". And I know a lot of you won't have been quite as bugged by this as I was. But still, personal preference. I find it cheesy to have to push a button so that the character of the game I'm playing undresses his girlfriend...
I wouldn't have been quite as annoyed if I didn't have to push said button. The cheesy-ness is in the details you see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To which you replied, precisely:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> As for the whole Ezio experience. Most, if not all of that is actually mostly Italian culture and it's quite accurate. It's just how people behave(d) there. It's actually so bad (no offense to Italian culture of course) that I wouldn't advise any woman or teenage girl to wander the streets of Rome or Florence alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was your reaction, your words to my first statement. There were no posts in between. You even quoted me.

I then said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> See what happened there? You interpreted a game's depiction of a country and its people as accurate.
I have no problem at all with us not agreeing about the good and the bad of character development and atmosphere changes in Assassin's Creed. I even like to hear what other people think of it.
But this has been taken to a whole new level. I am sure you didn't do it on purpose and by no means am I trying to do one of those "attack the interlocutor instead of the interlocutor's arguments" kinda move. I'm just pointing this out since I haven't been active on the forum these past years and I want it to be absolutely clear that I am neither trying to attack you (or anyone else) nor trying to offend you (or anyone else, again).
But I have to point out that just believing that the depiction of Italy and its women in AC II is accurate is jumping to conclusions. I have a personal problem with that.
There's widespread cliches and they tend to hold bits of truth to some extent. But not all French wear striped shirts, not all Americans are war-loving cowboys, not all Germans like Sauerkraut and not all Italian women (not even a majority of them) are "easy".
Maybe I misunderstood you. If I did and I offended you I am sorry, please explain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You then said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> No, I didn't assume it was accurate, I confirmed it was accurate. I actually went to Rome on a school trip a few years back and is was strongly advised that girls travel in large groups and it was mandatory, in part because of Italian culture, that nobody, especially girls, travel alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We were clearly talking about Italian women being depicted as "easy". I even reached out to you and said "Maybe I misunderstood you. If I did and I offended you I am sorry, please explain." to make absolutely sure you would weight your words.
The whole conversation was not about whether Ezio is "a casanova" or not. Of course he tries to be, most men do. I acknowledged that he is and even commented on this making him less likable to me. It's the fact that he always gets what he wants, that all of those girls actually fall for him that is cliché and makes him a Mary-Sue in my eyes. It seemed extremely unfair towards Italian people of you to say that that's "just part of Italian culture" because you've been there on a school trip.
And to stay on topic: I was referring how cliché male characters in video games are less likable to me.

And on Italian men being flirty I never said they weren't. But is simply being "flirty" a reason not to walk around Rome alone? In your statement you clearly implied that Italy was more dangerous for girls because of cultural differences. Let's be direct here or else you'll say that I put words in your mouth: If you are not implying rape, what are you implying then? Why is being talked to by a guy on the street so particularly dangerous if the guy is just flirty? I find it hard to believe that you or your teacher or your guide or whoever made that statement (if the statement was made exactly as you said: Implying that girls are not safe in Italy because of "the culture") was really thinking that some Italian guy trying to flirt with you would be that dangerous for your safety. What you or your guide or your teacher is implying by emphasizing on the "especially girls" is actual danger, harm that can only be done to girls. I would like to know how a) Such a statement is not biased and b) How it disproves my point of Ezio's interaction with women in Assassin's Creed being cliché.

[Also, I don't know where you've been in France but if your experience with French guys was of them NOT being flirty then I assume you were either very young or in some remote rural area. Especially if you were speaking English. You will most likely not be hit on in rural Italy either. Obviously this does not include the waiter covering you in compliments so you tip him. It means normal guys genuinely interested in getting to know you. Those will keep to themselves much more in a small town where everybody knows everybody than in a huge city where you're basically anonymous. Not only in Italy, everywhere.]

LightRey
08-16-2011, 09:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FYTJ:
I said, precisely:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Also remember the gardens in AC I? They fit the atmosphere, I didn't mind them. The brothels in AC II however were awkward to me. Not because they are brothels, I'm totally cool with that. But simply because Ezio is just not the sexiest thing since sliced bread, nuh uh. The whole game in general seems to often portray women as relatiely "easy". I don't like that "Oh my, is that your sword or are you just happy to see me?" kind of humour. Neither do I like the "It's fine for every woman to be easy as long as they're not your sister". And I know a lot of you won't have been quite as bugged by this as I was. But still, personal preference. I find it cheesy to have to push a button so that the character of the game I'm playing undresses his girlfriend...
I wouldn't have been quite as annoyed if I didn't have to push said button. The cheesy-ness is in the details you see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To which you replied, precisely:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> As for the whole Ezio experience. Most, if not all of that is actually mostly Italian culture and it's quite accurate. It's just how people behave(d) there. It's actually so bad (no offense to Italian culture of course) that I wouldn't advise any woman or teenage girl to wander the streets of Rome or Florence alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was your reaction, your words to my first statement. There were no posts in between. You even quoted me.

I then said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> See what happened there? You interpreted a game's depiction of a country and its people as accurate.
I have no problem at all with us not agreeing about the good and the bad of character development and atmosphere changes in Assassin's Creed. I even like to hear what other people think of it.
But this has been taken to a whole new level. I am sure you didn't do it on purpose and by no means am I trying to do one of those "attack the interlocutor instead of the interlocutor's arguments" kinda move. I'm just pointing this out since I haven't been active on the forum these past years and I want it to be absolutely clear that I am neither trying to attack you (or anyone else) nor trying to offend you (or anyone else, again).
But I have to point out that just believing that the depiction of Italy and its women in AC II is accurate is jumping to conclusions. I have a personal problem with that.
There's widespread cliches and they tend to hold bits of truth to some extent. But not all French wear striped shirts, not all Americans are war-loving cowboys, not all Germans like Sauerkraut and not all Italian women (not even a majority of them) are "easy".
Maybe I misunderstood you. If I did and I offended you I am sorry, please explain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You then said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> No, I didn't assume it was accurate, I confirmed it was accurate. I actually went to Rome on a school trip a few years back and is was strongly advised that girls travel in large groups and it was mandatory, in part because of Italian culture, that nobody, especially girls, travel alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We were clearly talking about Italian women being depicted as "easy". I even reached out to you and said "Maybe I misunderstood you. If I did and I offended you I am sorry, please explain." to make absolutely sure you would weight your words.
The whole conversation was not about whether Ezio is "a casanova" or not. Of course he tries to be, most men do. I acknowledged that he is and even commented on this making him less likable to me. It's the fact that he always gets what he wants, that all of those girls actually fall for him that is cliché and makes him a Mary-Sue in my eyes. It seemed extremely unfair towards Italian people of you to say that that's "just part of Italian culture" because you've been there on a school trip.
And to stay on topic: I was referring how cliché male characters in video games are less likable to me.

And on Italian men being flirty I never said they weren't. But is simply being "flirty" a reason not to walk around Rome alone? In your statement you clearly implied that Italy was more dangerous for girls because of cultural differences. Let's be direct here or else you'll say that I put words in your mouth: If you are not implying rape, what are you implying then? Why is being talked to by a guy on the street so particularly dangerous if the guy is just flirty? I find it hard to believe that you or your teacher or your guide or whoever made that statement (if the statement was made exactly as you said: Implying that girls are not safe in Italy because of "the culture") was really thinking that some Italian guy trying to flirt with you would be that dangerous for your safety. What you or your guide or your teacher is implying by emphasizing on the "especially girls" is actual danger, harm that can only be done to girls. I would like to know how a) Such a statement is not biased and b) How it disproves my point of Ezio's interaction with women in Assassin's Creed being cliché.

[Also, I don't know where you've been in France but if your experience with French guys was of them NOT being flirty then I assume you were either very young or in some remote rural area. Especially if you were speaking English. You will most likely not be hit on in rural Italy either. Obviously this does not include the waiter covering you in compliments so you tip him. It means normal guys genuinely interested in getting to know you. Those will keep to themselves much more in a small town where everybody knows everybody than in a huge city where you're basically anonymous. Not only in Italy, everywhere.] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alright, let me make this perfectly clear to you. Everything I have said up to this point that was (part of) a reply to posts you made in this thread has been in the light of "the whole Ezio experience" as I called it before. This basically means that anything that you've said about Italian women simply does not (directly) apply to what I've said about Italian culture. As a matter of fact I would agree with you that Italian women aren't easy. It's actually one of the main reasons Italian men come on so strongly.
I apologize if I didn't make myself clear earlier. I simply didn't take the time to read the parts of your posts that were about Italian women, since those didn't really apply to what I had said or was going to say. In doing so I obviously overlooked several things you've said, but really I didn't care and I still don't.

Also, I really don't care what you think of Ezio or the AC storyline. That was never part of what I had to say. I was merely stating that it wasn't uncommon for young Italian men to behave in such a way and it still isn't. I was, and still am remarking that some things that you found cheesy are just an accurate description of Italian culture.

The common Italian interpretation of being "flirty" as you say is in most (European) cultures closer to sexual harassment, which was my main point really.

Italian men are notorious for behaving in such a manner. I really find it quite strange that you do not know about this, but it's common knowledge really.

French men are indeed relatively flirty, but they're also much more courteous. They are more likely to "casually" strike up a conversation with a young woman and be charming and funny etc. Not to mention they would probably approach women in cafés rather than on the street. Italian men on the other hand simply come on strongly and are persistent. Again, this is common knowledge. Also, do keep in mind that I'm generalizing quite much. In no way do I think every Italian guy is like that.

Also, keep your simplistic (and rather insulting) "deductions" on when or where I have been in other countries to yourself. It's an inappropriate and rather annoying way of trying to undermine my authority on this subject.

ProdiGurl
08-17-2011, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Altair has a minor part in AC 2 but you won't get a feel of who he is. Ezio takes front and centre stage in AC 2, thats good because Ezio has a big story to be told.

You will see that "flirting and messing around" alot in AC 2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Albert, I understand alot of this takes place when he's younger?
This story is amazingly good and well done, I'm Xcited to learn more about it.
My friend who told me to try ACB told me to play ACII first for the storyline so I'd understand it but I was too iffy on if I'd like AC at all.
ACB is one of my best game purchases EVER.
Since there's a Christina mission in ACB from his past, I'm figuring she's in ACII someplace?

I hope to see some Altair parts too since you guys are talking alot about him from the first one.

LightRey
08-17-2011, 03:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Altair has a minor part in AC 2 but you won't get a feel of who he is. Ezio takes front and centre stage in AC 2, thats good because Ezio has a big story to be told.

You will see that "flirting and messing around" alot in AC 2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Albert, I understand alot of this takes place when he's younger?
This story is amazingly good and well done, I'm Xcited to learn more about it.
My friend who told me to try ACB told me to play ACII first for the storyline so I'd understand it but I was too iffy on if I'd like AC at all.
ACB is one of my best game purchases EVER.
Since there's a Christina mission in ACB from his past, I'm figuring she's in ACII someplace?

I hope to see some Altair parts too since you guys are talking alot about him from the first one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, Christina makes an appearance in ACII as well. The Christina missions in ACB seem to have been an attempt by Ubisoft to shed some more light onto Ezio and Christina's relationship, since we see so little of it in ACII.

ProdiGurl
08-17-2011, 03:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Altaïr makes a short appearance in ACII. It sheds a little more light on his life, but it's only important in the context of the entire storyline.
Ezio does do his share of flirting with girls in the game, but it fits his character nicely. What I like most about him is that in the very beginning he's very down-to-earth, but he slowly evolves into a wise master of the Assassins over time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you see the character building then - Sounds really good. Whoever the writers are, they're excellent.

I understand what you mean about the flirting/sexual theme, I do agree it needs to fit into a story & the character somehow - not just gratuitous random bits of it slapped in right before a big mission lol

I did watch a few ACII walkthru's at the beginning of the game since I wasn't going to buy it & my friend said I needed to understand the storyline.
So I did see him start to learn how to beat people up lol.

I'm curious what kind of weapons they get - when I played yesterday, once again in the middle of a big fight I lost my spadone & had to go back to a blacksmith later to reequip it again.

L.Cie
08-18-2011, 05:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
But what I wondered is if there are female gamers out there who prefer hot, handsome male lead characters? Or is it just me?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, you're not alone by any stretch. It certainly doesn't hurt a game to have an appealing male lead. x3
Ezio's one of my favourites of the male leads, I found him charming if not a little cliché during AC2 and it happened again when I played Brotherhood.
In games where the player makes their character, I usually make a female character, then go for a male on a second (and further) playthrough. I tend to model them on my own characters, as well.

I already know my second roll in TES: Skyrim is going to be a male Nord! They look great, LOL.
Hard to make them look great in Dragon Age, hah.

In all seriousness, however, I'm unbiased towards male or female leads, but I do find it revolting when they're over-sexualized and am much more interested in the character when they're deeply-developed in story, backstory, personality and interesting overall. I've seen previous posters mention RDR and Mass Effect, and I agree with them.

I will always prefer a character that I care about, that I will feel guilt over when harm befalls them, and anger when they're wronged, gender regardless.

When I finished Dragon Age: Origins for the first time, I felt so much pride for my Warden and her companions (tempted to yell "FOR FERELDEN" whenever This Is War comes on the radio), and when I hit the end of RDR, it was a strong sense of betrayal even though I knew what was going to happen.
And then there's Oblivion. I've recently been replaying it and everything that I found jaw-dropping the first time around is still just as shocking the second time.
Especially the ending of the Dark Brotherhood questline.

Anyway, after rambling a bit:

Handsome/dashing/'hot' male leads are fine by me, just like with beautiful female leads. As long as the character is believable and has a deep story to match.

Never hurts to have some eye candy, in addition to the beautiful game world. If it's not gratuitous, of course.
<STRIKE>'Course, it's always fun to make a player character as ugly as possible and run through the game like that.</STRIKE>

---
As for more 'romance' and sexual themes in a game, I say yes; more would do well if they served to flesh out the characters more and give more depth to the story, and didn't get in the way of the main plot elements. I write a lot and find it does form a thick platform for other branches of a story if it's in the right place. And only if it's in-character.

@LightRey, yep, I certainly got the Altaïr-and-Maria-getting-close vibe during AC1 when she's Robert's stand in and he lets her go. I wasn't too surprised when that scene in AC2 came along.

ProdiGurl
08-20-2011, 04:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by L.Cie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
But what I wondered is if there are female gamers out there who prefer hot, handsome male lead characters? Or is it just me?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, you're not alone by any stretch. It certainly doesn't hurt a game to have an appealing male lead. x3
Ezio's one of my favourites of the male leads, I found him charming if not a little cliché during AC2 and it happened again when I played Brotherhood.
In games where the player makes their character, I usually make a female character, then go for a male on a second (and further) playthrough. I tend to model them on my own characters, as well.

I already know my second roll in TES: Skyrim is going to be a male Nord! They look great, LOL.
Hard to make them look great in Dragon Age, hah.

In all seriousness, however, I'm unbiased towards male or female leads, but I do find it revolting when they're over-sexualized and am much more interested in the character when they're deeply-developed in story, backstory, personality and interesting overall. I've seen previous posters mention RDR and Mass Effect, and I agree with them.

I will always prefer a character that I care about, that I will feel guilt over when harm befalls them, and anger when they're wronged, gender regardless.

When I finished Dragon Age: Origins for the first time, I felt so much pride for my Warden and her companions (tempted to yell "FOR FERELDEN" whenever This Is War comes on the radio), and when I hit the end of RDR, it was a strong sense of betrayal even though I knew what was going to happen.
And then there's Oblivion. I've recently been replaying it and everything that I found jaw-dropping the first time around is still just as shocking the second time.
Especially the ending of the Dark Brotherhood questline.

Anyway, after rambling a bit:

Handsome/dashing/'hot' male leads are fine by me, just like with beautiful female leads. As long as the character is believable and has a deep story to match.

Never hurts to have some eye candy, in addition to the beautiful game world. If it's not gratuitous, of course.
<STRIKE>'Course, it's always fun to make a player character as ugly as possible and run through the game like that.</STRIKE>

---
As for more 'romance' and sexual themes in a game, I say yes; more would do well if they served to flesh out the characters more and give more depth to the story, and didn't get in the way of the main plot elements. I write a lot and find it does form a thick platform for other branches of a story if it's in the right place. And only if it's in-character.

@LightRey, yep, I certainly got the Altaïr-and-Maria-getting-close vibe during AC1 when she's Robert's stand in and he lets her go. I wasn't too surprised when that scene in AC2 came along. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, you nailed it here. Some of us love & want eye candy & hook ups but there really is a fine line with this and it would be up to the game creators to use good discretion. Over-sexualizing & the gratuitous crap is . . just cheesy crap that doesn't interest me either (unless it was done in a way that the visuals saved it despite itself).

I got heavily invested in Leon S. Kennedy of Res. Evil 4, and even John Marsten of RDR (sadly, they totally dropped the ball on this aspect in that game when so much could have done w/ it . . [*spoiler*] like with Bonny who nurses him back to health & shows interest in him & even when he meets up w/ his wife later in the game - total dissappointment there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif [*end]

This paragraph: &gt;&gt;I will always prefer a character that I care about, that I will feel guilt over when harm befalls them, and anger when they're wronged, gender regardless. &lt;&lt;
is spot on with me too.

I mainly only play FPS, but in games that involve some role play, I especially need to feel connected to and care about my character.
(I'm that way w/ lead roles in movie characters too).

Since ACB is the first AC game I played in the series, Ezio is all I know to identify with and they did a great job in balance w/ eye candy/sexy moves & some romance/flirting.
I'd of liked something more of his interest in a woman other than the first Catarina scene - someone he wanted and pursued.

But I can't complain - I just saw a short ACR trailer last nite & it looks awesome - they've improved on his moves. *Nice* Can't wait!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BlackRose1809
09-02-2011, 02:50 PM
I really don't care if Ezio was a player or not, he is one hot video game character, and he's very awesome too, so yeah... lol

My laptop has the official background of AC with Ezio in it, lol.