PDA

View Full Version : Having trouble with the IJN planes and the Super AI... any suggestions?



sledgehammer2
03-03-2006, 04:07 PM
I posted on the big thread in ORR about the AI behaviour since I am an offliner and it is really got me frustrated now. When I fly the IJN planes (mostly Zekes) I just can't seem to catch anybody. The AI is too high and too fast just about all the time. I use CEM and I am engaging hi blower when applicable.

I have tried a couple of fights with A6M5c's vs P-38s. Also P-51s. I have the AI set to rookie. I try to lure them into a close in knife fight and out-turn them but it just ends up being a waste of time. I'll gladly be the first to point out two things... maybe I'm a lousy pilot, and Mustangs and Lightnings were way better than Zekes, but believe me folks, at some point in these engagements I should be able to get in some good strikes or at least catch up to them even if only for awhile.

I have tried this many times and I am to the point of just walking away from it... but, I love this sim and want to fly. Personally, I agree with the guys who say that the AI is too fast,, but does anyone have any suggestions to help out here?

Thanks,
Sledgehammer2

sledgehammer2
03-03-2006, 04:07 PM
I posted on the big thread in ORR about the AI behaviour since I am an offliner and it is really got me frustrated now. When I fly the IJN planes (mostly Zekes) I just can't seem to catch anybody. The AI is too high and too fast just about all the time. I use CEM and I am engaging hi blower when applicable.

I have tried a couple of fights with A6M5c's vs P-38s. Also P-51s. I have the AI set to rookie. I try to lure them into a close in knife fight and out-turn them but it just ends up being a waste of time. I'll gladly be the first to point out two things... maybe I'm a lousy pilot, and Mustangs and Lightnings were way better than Zekes, but believe me folks, at some point in these engagements I should be able to get in some good strikes or at least catch up to them even if only for awhile.

I have tried this many times and I am to the point of just walking away from it... but, I love this sim and want to fly. Personally, I agree with the guys who say that the AI is too fast,, but does anyone have any suggestions to help out here?

Thanks,
Sledgehammer2

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-03-2006, 04:24 PM
The new AI does seem rather less inclined to engage in poking matches, and the Zero isn't really much of an altitude fighter (I don't fly it much myself so I can't offer much help!)

Do you use the Water-Methanol injection?

J_Anonymous
03-03-2006, 04:27 PM
I fly mostly blue in off-line against USN planes, and I love the Zero's. Once AI's in faster allied planes begin to run away, there is no way to catch up. I understand your frustration very well. When that happens, I often stop the chase, and climb up. I don't know exactly how AI's are programmed, but they tend to turn and come back to engage again, and you are now with higher altitudes. To ensure many engagement, I often set 16 vs. 16 in QMB, too, but the downside is, it becomes complete chaos.... Have you also tried J2M3? It's pretty fast, dive, climb, and roll very well, turns reasonably well, and off-line with F6F, F4U etc. has become fairly exciting....

LEBillfish
03-03-2006, 04:33 PM
Yet that was the nature of the beast.......Late in the war, really even past 42 the Japanese planes for the most part could not compete. More so...Tactics were pretty well established where in early in the war it was a huge learning curve.

What you need to do is go about your business, fulfill your mission, and then RTB if possible. To be frank, by late 43 the "air war" for the most part was simply over. The allies running the show, most times the Japanese not even able to launch a defense, and if they could really out planed.......What we hear of air war wise are really only tiny little engagements....often where the Japanese numbered in single digits to 10's, the allies 100's.

sledgehammer2
03-03-2006, 04:36 PM
I do use water-meth injection but try to keep it within limits because of overheating.

And yes I have tried the Jack. I love that plane and am happy we got it. Also looking forward to the next version that we'll supposedly get this summer. I think I actually did get a P-51 shot down but I also ran too hot in the process.

The bottom line is that I am totally frustrated with the AI and its lack of limitations like hi-g manuevers and speed.

SeaFireLIV
03-03-2006, 04:41 PM
Ai is busted. I cannot fly offline any more and have even considered going to another sim for my offline campaigns, possibly BOBWov.

In the meantime, I`m having a relaxing time from this stressful frustration by playing Morrowind.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Treetop64
03-03-2006, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sledgehammer2:
I posted on the big thread in ORR about the AI behaviour since I am an offliner and it is really got me frustrated now. When I fly the IJN planes (mostly Zekes) I just can't seem to catch anybody. The AI is too high and too fast just about all the time. I use CEM and I am engaging hi blower when applicable.

I have tried a couple of fights with A6M5c's vs P-38s. Also P-51s. I have the AI set to rookie. I try to lure them into a close in knife fight and out-turn them but it just ends up being a waste of time. I'll gladly be the first to point out two things... maybe I'm a lousy pilot, and Mustangs and Lightnings were way better than Zekes, but believe me folks, at some point in these engagements I should be able to get in some good strikes or at least catch up to them even if only for awhile.

I have tried this many times and I am to the point of just walking away from it... but, I love this sim and want to fly. Personally, I agree with the guys who say that the AI is too fast,, but does anyone have any suggestions to help out here?

Thanks,
Sledgehammer2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a suggestion. If you're using QMB, try bumping up the AI difficulty to Vet or Ace. They'll be more aggressive in coming at you (be sure!), but if you're flying an A6M against P-51s or P-38s, then you're gonna struggle. Both of the American planes are significantly faster than the Zero, and the only way you're going to have a chance against them is if they get involved in a turning fight with you (which they probably won't).

You are setting up a challenging situation with the matchup you're describing, so your fustrations are totally expected!

Grey_Mouser67
03-03-2006, 05:11 PM
I have gone to an older version of the game for offline flying....4.01. Unfortunately, the AI are still a bit fast in 4.01 but at least they don't do the uber negative G dive with barrel roll and half twist while gaining 50km/hr.

J_Anonymous
03-03-2006, 08:25 PM
I posted the above while at work, based on my experience last night with J2M3/A6M5 against F6F/F4U. I came home and tried 4 A6M5 vs. 4 P51 ("Average" skill). Boy, it's really difficult, and P51 killed two of my comrades by b&z.... I got an impression that the behavior of P51 AI is somewhat different from F6F AI....? I mean, the tactics employed seems different between F6F and P51. I thought the common complaints were that AI all fly the same way. In the announcement made ion Sukhoi web, they said one will be able to choose the bahavior of AI in BoB. Is it possible that Oleg is already experimenting with different behavior of AI for different types of airplanes? or is it just that P51 is much faster and climbs up and dive attack, while F6F is slower hence ends up entering a turnfight with Zero?

Jumoschwanz
03-03-2006, 10:09 PM
Setup something in the FMB that would approximate what you might run into in real life, or on a full-real server online.

With a slow plane like a zero, against faster Mustangs and p-38s, you have to bounce them.

Spot them at a lower altitude so you can make up for your planes lack of speed, hit them and then get back up out of reach.

What s u cks about the AI in this sim is they know you are there even when they should not.

In the FMB you can set up a nice alt advantage for yourself.

My best moment online in a jap plane was flying the K-100 in the patch 4.03, on a popular full-real server.
I got up to 7000 meters alt and in a position where I knew the Mustangs of the red team would likely be passing below me on the way to a target area. I saw two below me, right on cue, and dived to get on their tails. I hit the first Mustang good while immediately the lead Mustang split S. I followed him down and then he made the mistake of climbing back up and going vertical when I still had some of the E from my dive, and I took off his wing. The first Mustang I hit had to bail.
On the way home I bounced a third Mustang and shot that one down too. Three Mustangs in one mission. All due to surprise attacks that cannot really be setup in this sim offline.

On the same server later, I switched positions and got in the late Mustang. The opposition was K-100s and Ki-84b. Using the SAME tactics I used in the K-100 for the Mustang, I bounced and shot down a Ki-84b with ease, and damaged another badly, but someone else shot him before he crashed so I did not get credit.

These are the tactics that worked best in WWII, and they work best in a full-real style server if you want to get kills and live, as a pilot would want to in real life back then.

Offline when I set something like this up in the FMB, the AI always knows I am up there and starts to climb up toward me, there is no REAL bouncing that is going to take place. It would be nice if this was fixed in this sim, or maybe in BoB, so that AI would not sense your presence if you were in the sun, or if you were behind a part of their planes fuselage that would hide you from view.

Dogfighting in furballs is fun, and is good to know and be proficient in for when an unintelligent online "ace" decides he wants to turn fight with you. I am sure I heard once that Erich Hartmann once said something to the effect, that if he found himself in a dogfight, he knew he did something wrong.

So that is it. It is a limitation of this sim that will keep you from flying and getting kills in a zero against AI, because you cannot surprise them or hide from them. It is the same in online "arcade" servers where your opponent can locate you by panning outside views of his opponents aircraft and locating them, or simply spotting the big arrows pointing to you or your icon attached to your plane.

Try the FMB, and if you ever get a chance, try out a full-real online server, where you can get up high in the sun in a good spot on the map, and catch some Mustangs cruising along on the way to their target zone, not knowing that where they are at the moment is YOUR target zone.

S!

Jumoschwanz

joeap
03-04-2006, 03:56 AM
I REALLY don't get this whine. The Zero irl was slower than most allied figthers, and is modelled that way in the sim...and someone is whining about the AI flying too fast??

JG53Frankyboy
03-04-2006, 04:02 AM
me too , i also would whine when i could easy kill P-38/51 because they only go in a slow speed turn with me in a Zero http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

im also not playing offline ! and this since over 5 years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . but in online coops you also meet sometimes AI , and yesm sometimes/often thier tactic is bad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
my observation was in the past the AI is more a turner than an energie fighter ?!?!
but i dont play much at all the last time.....

Cworth
03-04-2006, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
The Zero irl was slower than most allied figthers, and is modelled that way in the sim...and someone is whining about the AI flying too fast?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell that to an AI flying the Zero and you in the P-51.

I tried a 1 v 1 like this last night with the AI set to Veteran level.I flew straight and level at 16,000 ft and let him get on my tail to experiment with something.I started a dive to try and outrun him as the AI do against you...and the Zero which is supposed to be a slower plane stayed on my tail and never fell behind..even closed the range to a degree and blasted me out of the air while still in the dive.The Zero should not have been able to do that against the P-51,it should have fell behind in that dive.

VW-IceFire
03-04-2006, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
I REALLY don't get this whine. The Zero irl was slower than most allied figthers, and is modelled that way in the sim...and someone is whining about the AI flying too fast?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its alwasy the planes fault or the AI's fault.

Honestly, no matter what game you play with the Zero represneted, once 1943 rolls along the Allies are faster than you and far tougher and you've got to have your wits about you to survive the engagement.

In this time period, you're going to have to be lucky and skillful to get into a spot to hit your opponent.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-04-2006, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
my observation was in the past the AI is more a turner than an energie fighter ?!?!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I concur, the AI seem much smarter WRT energy tactics in the latest patch, for example they will not now attempt to turn-fight a Ki43 in a P47...

If they're in a fast plane now they tend to make slashing attacks which is more realistic IMHO

FWIW I started a campaign last night in the A6M5c, it is horrendously slow but the guns are vicious on it! Easily killed 6 F6F in one mission with just very quick bursts to each. I gave up in the end cos I don't like slow planes but that bird has some mean dukes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

J_Anonymous
03-04-2006, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SnapdLikeAMutha:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
my observation was in the past the AI is more a turner than an energie fighter ?!?!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I concur, the AI seem much smarter WRT energy tactics in the latest patch, for example they will not now attempt to turn-fight a Ki43 in a P47...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to clarify; Zero is supposed to be slow and it is programmed as a slow plane in this game, and I am not whining or anything. That's the way it should be. The point of my second post is precisely what you are talking about here : very good energy tactic employed by fast US army fighter planes. And that's the way it should be... On the other hand, as I mentioned already, if Slegehammer wants to enjoy a turnfight using Zero, he would probably have a better chance against F6F.

Saunders1953
03-04-2006, 10:25 AM
Sledge's problem exists when you go against early war P39's and P40's as well. Not quite as bad and varying their skill settings helps a bit, but the AI is simply too uber since the last couple of patches. I'm trying to decide which is better for the AI: too uber or too stupid, since those seem to be the choices we have.

sledgehammer2
03-04-2006, 11:10 AM
Saunders is exactly right. I have noticed it against Hawk-81As against Zeke-21s when I have set that up through UQMG.

And I never intended this as a whine. I try always to look at the positives in this sim, but in this case my frustration was getting the better of me. I believe I also said in my initial post that Mustangs and Lightnings are infinitely more advanced planes than the Zekes, and that part of the problem may be that I am a lousy pilot, but that nonetheless the AI was an issue here IMO.

What Saunders points out confirms this and for that matter I tried Ki-100s vs Hawk 81As and barely, just barely managed to get the drop on them.

As far as the wobbles go, they were a problem for me and I am glad they are gone... and I hope they stay gone.

Saunders1953
03-04-2006, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As far as the wobbles go, they were a problem for me and I am glad they are gone... and I hope they stay gone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thankgoodness, I never had to deal with the wobbles, except right after the last patch, first flight, in a Zeke, one of the missions in Browning-50's Sakai campaign, where I had to take off quick because B25's were hitting my base. I was wobbling just enough to not be able to get a stable bead on an otherwise easy six O'clock shot (B25 gunners were barely shooting back at me). I finally got him after using all my cannon ammo and a lot of MG ammo to boot. When things calmed down and I went to land, I lowered my landing gear, and it went up! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

By the way, anyone who takes Sledgehammer2 for a whiner is not paying attention.

joeap
03-04-2006, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
I REALLY don't get this whine. The Zero irl was slower than most allied figthers, and is modelled that way in the sim...and someone is whining about the AI flying too fast?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its alwasy the planes fault or the AI's fault.

Honestly, no matter what game you play with the Zero represneted, once 1943 rolls along the Allies are faster than you and far tougher and you've got to have your wits about you to survive the engagement.

In this time period, you're going to have to be lucky and skillful to get into a spot to hit your opponent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Err I wasn't whining, I know that and expect it. Or were you talking to me??

Jumoschwanz
03-07-2006, 05:26 AM
If you want to have fun offline dogfighting in a zero, set your self up in the QMB against four ACE late Hellcats or Wildcats, they will dice with you forever.

I flew the a6m5a against four ACE 1944 Hellcats and made a track:

http://rapidshare.de/files/14907536/4_1944_F6F_vs_a6m5a.trk.html


And I also took the a6m3 against four late Wildcats, I set difficulty to "realistic", yes dead full-real, and I had a blast making deflection shots while the cats flew circles around and with me for as long as we both were in the air.

This is a very historical mission too, as the Hellcat/Wildcat vs Zero is probably something that happened in WWII more often than any other matchup in the pacific theatre.

To download the track, click the link, then hit the "free" button, the download will start in x seconds, then put the file in your "records" folder of your sim installation.

S!

Jumoschwanz

MrMojok
03-07-2006, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cworth:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
The Zero irl was slower than most allied figthers, and is modelled that way in the sim...and someone is whining about the AI flying too fast?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell that to an AI flying the Zero and you in the P-51.

I tried a 1 v 1 like this last night with the AI set to Veteran level.I flew straight and level at 16,000 ft and let him get on my tail to experiment with something.I started a dive to try and outrun him as the AI do against you...and the Zero which is supposed to be a slower plane stayed on my tail and never fell behind..even closed the range to a degree and blasted me out of the air while still in the dive.The Zero should not have been able to do that against the P-51,it should have fell behind in that dive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, after the last patch, an AI-controlled zero will follow you down in any dive you think you can pull off. As you pull out of the dive, just on the verge of blackout at nearly 500 mph, he will still be right behind you and firing.

Doug_Thompson
03-07-2006, 12:27 PM
Re: Super AI

My only problem with the AI is the good chance that two or three bombers will still follow their leader into a crash in the ocean when I shoot up the leader.

==========

Re: Patched Japanese

Maybe I'm just nuts, but the improvements to rudder control and in shooting makes dogfighting easier for me when playing Japanese, at least at lower altitude.

mortoma
03-07-2006, 06:26 PM
I really don't know what all the fuss is about. I mean all these people flying older versions of the sim or even considering flying an entirely different sims. That all seems a bit much in my eyes. I have been flying offline, mostly stock Dgen campaigns since FB came out and the more "static" campaigns we had in IL2, before FB. I go all the way back to the demo days. I have flown all the birds, all the time and in every patch, both published and leaked patches. I have been there through them all people!! And I just don't think the AI is so different from patch to patch.

Never have I had much problem with the AI. AI has changed some, but not enough to cry about. I actually like it better now since the AI will use their advantage if they are flying a faster plane that you are. This is realistic!! Real fighter pilots did the same thing, they exploited the strengths of their planes. The AI is just slighty better at deciding how to fly the planes they're in now. Big deal. I'm glad the original poster can't catch P-51s or 38s in his Zero, If he could then the AI would be really stupid and not doing what they in fact should be doing. It should be a challenge to get a P-51 in a Zero.

I just wish Oleg would improve the turn fighting capabilities of the AI. They still turn much less tightly than they should in any given plane. For example I was flying a MC-202 and was turning with a AI in a I-16 and after about 8 circuits, I was on his tail!! That has been a problem since the demo, they just don't turn at the edge of their envelopes. They still can't shoot deflection very well either, they end up wasting all their ammo shooting behind the enemy plane even if they can easily get lead pursuit on the bandit. They continue flying in lag or pure pursuit even if they don't have to and shoot the air instead of the bandit.

AnaK774
03-07-2006, 06:51 PM
Well, for me it looks like:

AI sees you always when youre withing X range
Ai knows always when you have guns solution for him
AI wont blackout/redpout
AI doesnt have structural speed/accelration limits for plane
AI planes dont overheat
AI can see and shoot trough clouds
AI can see trough belly of its plane
AI uses bit funny tactics
AI is predictable, and because of it, beatable

But anyway, its still good training partner and opposition, with all of its limitations http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Covino
03-07-2006, 11:16 PM
I've been playing 4.04 offline for quite a bit now (full real USMC campaign) and I have to say the AI now is the best yet. No longer do they just sweep around in gentle circles on the deck but actually twist and turn making dogfights more exciting, their shooting is also better, and I haven't experienced the collisions that others are talking about. However my Wildcat can still outturn and outpace AI Zero's so I really dont understand this "uber AI" business.

I think many players expect the offline experience to be like an FPS shooter, one man shooting down dozens of planes in a mission and winning the war. Personally, I like an AI that presents just as much challenge as an online human player would, so if the AI needs to cheat a little to present a challenge, i say let it be.

MrMojok
03-08-2006, 08:17 AM
Nobody wants it to be like a first person shooter. The better the AI can fly, the better everyone will like it. However, they must at least *appear* to be bound by the laws of physics.

There are several threads around about this, which I am sure everyone has seen. I, and several others, have seen an AI-controlled plane with its engine shot out and prop not even turning perform a zoom climb from straight and level flight. This does not make the game better. My example up above of the zero-- this doesn't make it better either.

Saunders1953
03-08-2006, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm glad the original poster can't catch P-51s or 38s in his Zero, If he could then the AI would be really stupid and not doing what they in fact should be doing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mortoma, I have to respectfully disagree. The problem is, if you reverse that situation, the Zero will catch you in your P51 or P38 in most situations, not just turns at low level. I fly exclusively offline, and mostly PTO, and mostly Zeros, Wildcats and P38's, and have for about 2 hours a night, double on weekends, without hardly missing a day/night since Sept 2004 (and I have tracks if really necessary--literally hundreds), so this isn't said without some experience. I agree that in ways the AI is better--smarter--but also doesn't seem to follow the rules of flight and physics which does cause problems. Also, the one issue that has without a doubt been around since patch 4.01 is the horrible way AI bombers/fighter bombers act when making ground and torpedo attacks. It is frustrating to many of us, and it would seem that some of the issues would be relatively easy to address, but I understand why Oleg and crew might not want to puit their time into it. I just feel that is a shame, is all. I'm not leaving in a huff, or whining, just stating there are problems that I would like to see fixed, but know they most likely won't be, and with reason.

Covino, I don't expect an FPS experience at all in my offline play. I don't expect to nail a dozen planes in a mission--I expect to be shot down, and if not, maybe I'll get one or two opponents if I'm lucky, and even then, I am well aware that that is way, way off the reality meter.

sledgehammer2
03-08-2006, 04:25 PM
I saw in another thread that Oleg said he will look at the AI but will not make any code changes until the release of the Pe-2 add-on. It was also said that Ianboys just sent the Burma map to Oleg for approval, so that may be coming in the next couple of months.

I don't think I need to say this but I will just for clarification... I'm not hoping for or asking for stupid AI, I just wish they had the limitations that we have.

Xiolablu3
03-09-2006, 01:52 AM
Try getting higher than them and diving on them.

MiamiEagle
03-09-2006, 07:31 AM
Guy be afraid of what asking for because you might get it.In other words the hardest thing to program is the Ai.

I have all the major Sim related to World war two. None have a perfect Ai. If you ask for perfection they just might just develope the perfect flying Ai that will be impossible to beat and thus you will go full circle and start to complain about the uber Ai.

All I ask for the Ai to be limited by the same rule and physical limitations the we as players.

As for complain that if you fly a Zero against a P51 you cannot catch it. Its legitamate complain. The P51 was faster than the Zero and thus was able to do that for a tactical advantage. Just remember this. There is a big difference when fly against a P51 on QMB than through a Campaign mode. In the real World it would have been almost as frustating for the P51 flying agaist a Zero as it was for a Zero flying against a P51. You see the P51 would get a couple of good Shoots at the Zero and if the Pilot of the Zero was veteran and knew how to fly his bird correctly it would have been very difficult to get a shot at him. As you may know by now you cannot keep you engine up at full speed before your engine will over heat.After a few shots if you miss you only had one option and it was get hell out of there.You see unless you where a very good shooter and your get your target quickly you needed to get out. You have to remember that the P51 was not going to win a turning fight with a Zero and it the only American that was easy to shoot down if you hit it with your guns. All otrher American planes where rugged and able to sustain a lot damage. Not the P51.

The P51 record in the Pacific was not as impressive as it was in the European Theater. those are the things that make this war so facinating to me. One plane would great in one Theater and so well in another.

I like to fly in both Theaters. I find when I fly in the European Theater for a while and I go back to the Pacific Theater I get shot quickly and vice versa.

I hope Oleg realize how much more interesting this program has become by including the Pacific Theater.

I also hope the with the new Burma map in the near future he will include those Pacific Fighers the are glaring ommitions at this time.

Most of the Patchest have almost exclusely dedicated for the European Theater. I do love those Italian planes and the Ju88. But we do not need 1200 version of the Bf109. That could wait until we have introduce the needed missing Pacific Fighters.

Thank you all for reading my post

Miamieagle

mortoma
03-09-2006, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saunders1953:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm glad the original poster can't catch P-51s or 38s in his Zero, If he could then the AI would be really stupid and not doing what they in fact should be doing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mortoma, I have to respectfully disagree. The problem is, if you reverse that situation, the Zero will catch you in your P51 or P38 in most situations, not just turns at low level. I fly exclusively offline, and mostly PTO, and mostly Zeros, Wildcats and P38's, and have for about 2 hours a night, double on weekends, without hardly missing a day/night since Sept 2004 (and I have tracks if really necessary--literally hundreds), so this isn't said without some experience. I agree that in ways the AI is better--smarter--but also doesn't seem to follow the rules of flight and physics which does cause problems. Also, the one issue that has without a doubt been around since patch 4.01 is the horrible way AI bombers/fighter bombers act when making ground and torpedo attacks. It is frustrating to many of us, and it would seem that some of the issues would be relatively easy to address, but I understand why Oleg and crew might not want to puit their time into it. I just feel that is a shame, is all. I'm not leaving in a huff, or whining, just stating there are problems that I would like to see fixed, but know they most likely won't be, and with reason.

Covino, I don't expect an FPS experience at all in my offline play. I don't expect to nail a dozen planes in a mission--I expect to be shot down, and if not, maybe I'll get one or two opponents if I'm lucky, and even then, I am well aware that that is way, way off the reality meter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, I know, but this type of happening has always been the case. The AI have ALWAYS been like that. Just the other day I was flying a career mission in the new D0-335 and I was diving shallow dive to get away from a LA-5FN. I was going well past the speed the LA-5FN would have broken up if I was flying one.
But the AI cheat and their planes can do better then you can when flying the very same aircraft.
But why are people just now starting to yell about this?? Are you all new people to the sim??
Maybe that explains it. But take it from me, the
AI can do things they should not be able to do.
But it has always been that way in this sim!!!!
Get used to it, or hope a miracle occurs and Oleg finally changes it.

MercilessFatBoy
03-09-2006, 05:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sledgehammer2:
I posted on the big thread in ORR about the AI behaviour since I am an offliner and it is really got me frustrated now. When I fly the IJN planes (mostly Zekes) I just can't seem to catch anybody. The AI is too high and too fast just about all the time. I use CEM and I am engaging hi blower when applicable.

I have tried a couple of fights with A6M5c's vs P-38s. Also P-51s. I have the AI set to rookie. I try to lure them into a close in knife fight and out-turn them but it just ends up being a waste of time. I'll gladly be the first to point out two things... maybe I'm a lousy pilot, and Mustangs and Lightnings were way better than Zekes, but believe me folks, at some point in these engagements I should be able to get in some good strikes or at least catch up to them even if only for awhile.

I have tried this many times and I am to the point of just walking away from it... but, I love this sim and want to fly. Personally, I agree with the guys who say that the AI is too fast,, but does anyone have any suggestions to help out here?

Thanks,
Sledgehammer2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Against the p51 you got nothing in a zero.... climbs faster than you, is faster... so on..... only chance you got if you got guts is to lure him into your six... and shoot him as he flees,... you always got a few seconds of oportiunity...

against the p38 yOu have better climb rate..... use that to your adventage,... be careful if your speed is alot lower than his, he will zoom at your... but if he isnt that much faster like... afther making the turn to ur six he will lose speed,... that will give you a chance to climb away from him... then rolll over and dive on him... the poor devil wont know what hit him... this manouver works for almost all oponents of the zero.....

The best zero is the A6M3 of curse you could always tray to have alt avantage.... . when using climb rate advantage i prefere to be sea level... and climb no higher than 6000m.. u got the best of your zero between 5000 6000m alt