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LeadSpitter_
12-11-2004, 11:06 AM
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/alliedchrts2.jpg

Note that the Allisons in the P-38J-5-Lo through P-38J-25-Lo were Allison V-1710 F17 models, where as the Allisons in the P-38L-5-Lo and later were Allison V-1710 F30 models.

I threw some comparison numbers from some Japanese planes in for fun, WideWing gave me those too.

Much of this data is directly from Lockheed tests on the P-38 during production.

Time to height:
P-38F from sea level to 10,000 ft at 48 in. Hg. MAP, 2,900 rpm: 3.56 min.
P-38F from brake release to 10,000 ft.: 4 min, 35 sec.
P-38J sea level to 23,800 ft, 60 in. Hg. MAP, 3,000 rpm: 6.19 min., still
maintaining 2,900 fpm at that altitude.
P-38L sea level to 20,000 ft. 60 in. Hg. MAP, 3,000 rpm: 4.91min, still
maintaining 3,450 fpm at that altitude.

P-38G 345 mph @ 5,000 ft. / 402 mph @ 25,000 ft.(METO) / Climb: 2,885 fpm.avg.
P-38H 352 mph @ 5,000 ft. / 409 mph @ 22,000 ft.(METO) / Climb: 3,070 fpm.avg.
P-38J 360 mph @ 5,000 ft. / 421 mph @ 22,500 ft.(METO) / Climb: 3,585 fpm.avg.
P-38L 365 mph @ 5,000 ft. / 442 mph @ 22,500 ft. (WEP) / Climb: 3,750 fpm.avg.

Ratings [minutes] Power RPM Manifold [in.Hg] Altitude [ft]
Normal (no limit) 1,100 2,600 44 30,000
Take Off (5) 1,475 3,000 54 SL
Military (15) 1,475 3,000 54 30,000
WEP (5) 1,725 3,000 60 28,700

Max speed at sea level: 352 mph
Max speed at 5,500 ft : 369 mph
Max speed at 23,500 ft. 440 mph (WEP) 5 minutes max.
Max speed at critical alt: 444 mph @ 25,800 (WEP) 5 minutes max.

Max climb rate at sea level: 4,225 fpm (50% fuel, normal ammo)
Max climb rate at 23,400 ft: 3,940 fpm
Time to 23,400 ft: 5.94 minutes
Time to 30,000 ft: 8.86 minutes
Service Ceiling: 44,000 ft.

The most commonly printed max speed numbers for the P-38L state
414 mph. How interesting. Consider that the L was fitted with the -30
Allisons, as opposed to the -17 on the J. There is a big difference, and
I'll go into that a little later.

The typical numbers presented for the J are 421 mph IN WEP.
The typical numbers presented for the L are 414 mph IN METO.
This is one of the pitfalls of using commercially available data. It
usually isn't researched very well. The difference between METO and
WEP is 600 hp. The -30 produced a minimum of 1,725 hp in WEP.
As opposed to 1,425 hp in METO.

The -17 installed in the P-38J had the same METO rating as the -30
at 1,425 hp. However, the -17 only made 1,600 hp in WEP, where as
the -30 made 1725 hp in WEP. The additional power could push the
L to speeds over 440 mph. Warren Bodie concludes the maximum speed
in WEP as 443 mph at altitudes between 20,000 and 23,500 ft. Bodie
obtained his data directly from Lockheed, where he was employed as
an engineer on the U-2 and F-117 programs. Therefore, I tend to except
Bodie as a more credible source than Green and Swanborough et al.


Typical speeds Avg. climb rate to alt. at left
Ki-44 378 mph @ 17,500 ft. / Climb: 3,700 fpm.
Ki-61 362 mph @ 16,400 ft. / Climb: 2,380 fpm.
Ki-84 392 mph @ 21,325 ft. / Climb: 3,790 fpm.
Ki-100 366 mph @ 19,700 ft. / Climb: 2,750 fpm
N1K1 363 mph @ 17,700 ft. / Climb: 2,510 fpm.
N1K2 371 mph @ 18,400 ft. / Climb: 2,675 fpm.
J2M3 365 mph @ 17,900 ft. / Climb: 3,570 fpm.

P-38G 345 mph @ 5,000 ft. / 402 mph @ 25,000 ft.(METO) / Climb: 2,885 fpm.avg.
P-38H 352 mph @ 5,000 ft. / 409 mph @ 22,000 ft.(METO) / Climb: 3,070 fpm.avg.
P-38J 360 mph @ 5,000 ft. / 421 mph @ 22,500 ft.(METO) / Climb: 3,585 fpm.avg.
P-38L 365 mph @ 5,000 ft. / 442 mph @ 22,500 ft. (WEP) / Climb: 3,750 fpm.avg.


The basic performance figures for the P-38L are as follows (from Lockheed
factory test logbooks):

Max speed at sea level: 352 mph
Max speed at 5,500 ft : 369 mph
Max speed at 23,500 ft. 440 mph (WEP) 5 minutes max.
Max speed at critical alt: 444 mph @ 25,800 (WEP) 5 minutes max.


The P-38L, continued

Max climb rate at sea level: 4,225 fpm (50% fuel, normal ammo)
Max climb rate at 23,400 ft: 3,940 fpm
Time to 23,400 ft: 5.94 minutes
Time to 30,000 ft: 8.86 minutes
Service Ceiling: 44,000 ft.

Copperhead310th
12-11-2004, 01:14 PM
Well for comaparison do you happen to have the<span class="ev_code_RED"> "CORRECT & UN-TAMPERD" </span>perfomance numbers for the German aircaft of that time?

(i say correct & un-tamperd becuase it has long been my personal belife that the person/persons that usually post those same numbers on the German aircaft would likely find it benifical to thier imedate self interst in the sim if they contenually posted incorrect or intentionally falseified perfomance numbers for thier favorite LW aircraft.)

Those numbers sound very right for the P-38. I was actually expecting it to be a litter better on paper.

LeadSpitter_
12-11-2004, 01:25 PM
look in orr in the .50 cal thread i posted a bunch of 190 charts and theres some ki84 charts i posted as well check this out too btw.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/503_1102168826_fw190_and_me109quirks.jpg

IL2-chuter
12-11-2004, 01:26 PM
Concerning the Hellcat:

The contract awarded Grumman guaranteed a maximum speed (at normal gross weight: full armament and internal fuel) of 377mph at 23,400ft. In acceptance trials the aircraft tested achieved 376mph. The navy conservitely dropped it 5mph for the manual. This was all on military (non WEP) power per contract. In the game I have to use WEP to hit 371mph (true) and I can go no faster at 25% fuel/no ammo.

An observation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Chuck_Older
12-11-2004, 01:29 PM
I can't really agree, though, Copper.

Your argument is that someone is biased, right? And that they post incorrect data on their websites to gain leverage for Il2:FB purposes, mainly to ncrease advantages over LW aircraft?

It's your personal beleief that these are incorrect, and I am supposed to regard them as incorrect because of your belief.

I am sorry, I can't subscribe to that logic. If you can show me why I should regard your beleif with credibility, I will consider it, but basically you're saying you're right because you say so, aren't you? What you're saying is: 'I have the same amount of credibilty as these websites that i say post incorrect data, because we both just say "I am right", but yiu really should beleive me and not them' is what I am getting out of this.

You could be right, but you have just as little proof as these sources you say are incorrect. What makes your beleif more accurate than their data?

IL2-chuter
12-11-2004, 01:55 PM
It doesn't appear to me as being a question of bias but one of assumption. Do we assume published maximum performance (speed) is achieved at military or WEP power? It would appear the army and navy were defining performance based on military power. it would appear others are defining that same performance based on WEP, a logical assumption due to the term "maximum". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Now what?

Copperhead310th
12-11-2004, 02:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I can't really agree, though, Copper.

Your argument is that someone is biased, right? And that they post incorrect data on their websites to gain leverage for Il2:FB purposes, mainly to ncrease advantages over LW aircraft?

It's your personal beleief that these are incorrect, and I am supposed to regard them as incorrect because of your belief.

I am sorry, I can't subscribe to that logic. If you can show me why I should regard your beleif with credibility, I will consider it, but basically you're saying you're right because you say so, aren't you? What you're saying is: 'I have the same amount of credibilty as these websites that i say post incorrect data, because we both just say "I am right", but yiu really should beleive me and not them' is what I am getting out of this.

You could be right, but you have just as little proof as these sources you say are incorrect. What makes your beleif more accurate than their data? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chuck .....I Belive/ it is my Belife = IMO or in my Opion.

so let me correct myslef it is IMO that that is the case.

Copperhead310th
12-11-2004, 02:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IL2-chuter:
It doesn't appear to me as being a question of bias but one of assumption. Do we assume published maximum performance (speed) is achieved at military or WEP power? It would appear the army and navy were defining performance based on military power. it would appear others are defining that same performance based on WEP, a logical assumption due to the term "maximum". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Now what? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh wich is a good point. it could be that the LW guys are posting the Max for thier planes and the Military power for the Allied side. I don't read every single chart that gets posted here. so i may be missing soemthing.
My point is that there is always...and always will be a Bias. pilots love THIER favorite aircraft. and as such are bais. I'm bais as hell when it comes to the P-47 and i'll openly admit it. but not to the point that i post compleate fabriations and lies about it's perfomance or the performance of it's axis counterpart. Anyone that says they are not bias twards a piticular aircraft is an out and out liar.

BuzzU
12-11-2004, 02:36 PM
So, the bottom line here is why does Oleg think the P-38J is faster that the L model?

Is he interested in fixing it if he's wrong?

faustnik
12-11-2004, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:

(i say correct & un-tamperd becuase it has long been my personal belife that the person/persons that usually post those same numbers on the German aircaft would likely find it benifical to thier imedate self interst in the sim if they contenually posted incorrect or intentionally falseified perfomance numbers for thier favorite LW aircraft.)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a really crappy thing to say Copperhead. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif The world would look like a much better place to you if you took your head out of your butt.

faustnik
12-11-2004, 02:38 PM
Oh, thanks for posting those Leadspitter.

x__CRASH__x
12-11-2004, 03:14 PM
I just want to clear something up, for some of you who may not know or understand where Copperhead is coming from.

Copperhead has been a friend, but his running of the mouth has started to really upset me lately. So, with no due regard to Copperhead, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gifI am going to shed some light.

Copperhead is a mediocre pilot at best. He believes that because the U.S. helped win the war, it is obvious that U.S. aircraft must be better. Copperhead has met some exceptional online LW pilots. He believes that he should win, based on the outcome of the war, but thats not the case. He proved this to me by challenging me 1v1 to see once and for all if it was his aircraft or not. I took a bf-109 G10. He took a P-47 D27. He made the terms that we should be at co-altitude at 3000m. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Needless to say, the day did not go well for Copperhead. All I had to do was avoid his head on fire, roll over the top onto his six, and take off his wing. I did this 3 or 4 times before he got really upset.

Copperhead lost because of sub-par piloting skills and lack of effective tactics for the aircraft he is flying. But rather than admit that, he would rather just spend his time typing on UBI about how all LW pilots are biased so we can keep our "uber" planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif and that the U.S. is the victim of a great Oleg conspiricy against him.

I for one am quite tired of reading it.

UB6MEB9
12-11-2004, 03:25 PM
HAhahahahhahah Copperhead got owned.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/UB6MEB9/owned2.jpg

MEGILE
12-11-2004, 03:31 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BuzzU
12-11-2004, 03:39 PM
Copper didn't use any names Crash.

That was uncalled for.

x__CRASH__x
12-11-2004, 04:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
Copper didn't use any names Crash.

That was uncalled for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHen he calls me a Nazi because I fly for a virtual JG squadron, then it's entirely called for.

BuzzU
12-11-2004, 04:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
Copper didn't use any names Crash.

That was uncalled for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHen he calls me a Nazi because I fly for a virtual JG squadron, then it's entirely called for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would have made more sense if you would have done this on the thread that he called you that. Or wasn't it done on this forum?

It seemed like you came out of nowhere with your post. How are we to know what he called you?

UB6MEB9
12-11-2004, 04:22 PM
Buzz.. leave Earl at home.. and pay Copperhead the money you apparently owe him (otherwise this isn't like you) and move on.

Or are you trying to get a mod position here? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BuzzU
12-11-2004, 04:28 PM
I'm hardly acting like Earl.

I always take the side of the underdog.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

9th_Spitin
12-11-2004, 04:32 PM
Well I have flown many times with Copperhead and the 310th and they are skilled pilots and spend alot of time to make make on-line play much more enjoyable. If you have a issue with him in a forum thread, then you should have taken it up with him at that time. To bring up something out of the blue that was in a different thread and try to trash him here is just plain BAD FORM.

x__CRASH__x
12-11-2004, 04:45 PM
I'm very aware that it is bad form.

And Buzz, his namecalling thread was locked. Imagine that.

UB6MEB9
12-11-2004, 04:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 9th_Spitin:
Well I have flown many times with Copperhead and the 310th and they are skilled pilots and spend alot of time to make make on-line play much more enjoyable. If you have a issue with him in a forum thread, then you should have taken it up with him at that time. To bring up something out of the blue that was in a different thread and try to trash him here is just plain BAD FORM. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/UB6MEB9/ubi.jpg

BuzzU
12-11-2004, 04:51 PM
Getting back on topic. It seems Oleg has reversed the performance between the J and the L model. I don't suppose we have a prayer of getting this fixed?

9th_Spitin
12-11-2004, 05:03 PM
UB6MEB9,

1st off you seem to be the annoying one.

2nd, who the hell are you with your whopping 36 posts that anyone should listen to you. Maybe your one of the offline players who doesnt play online cause they get OWNED.

9th_Spitin
12-11-2004, 05:05 PM
Leadspitter,

Sorry for taking it OT on you. Good info to have.

Thanks

MEGILE
12-11-2004, 05:16 PM
http://www.mahopa.de/bilder/lustige-forenbilder/thread-hijack.jpg

Back on topic gents http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

UB6MEB9
12-11-2004, 05:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 9th_Spitin:
UB6MEB9,

1st off you seem to be the annoying one.

2nd, who the hell are you with your whopping 36 posts that anyone should listen to you. Maybe your one of the offline players who doesnt play online cause they get OWNED. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup this incarnation only has 36 posts.. last name got lost in the UBI shuffle.

Besides with all the self proclaimed know it alls around this place wtf would I want to post more for?

Just to have some assclowns spout out 3 or 4 different sets of numbers, or data, or this or that or... na just more fun to antagonize the weak minded like yourself that actually take offence to mild taunts in a jpeg and or text format.

I do fly online.. not much but some. I never claimed to be able to take Crash(or anyone) in a fair fight, heck probably not even in an unfair fight, but to me if I win or lose it doesn't matter.. I am here for the fun of the GAME. Don't think that I won't surprize you once in awhile though.. shark is not just a term used for pool.

Any patches given to us by Oleg and Co. are highly appriciated and I really couldn't care less about performace charts and climb rate data on any plane in the entire IL2 series.

Fun is fun, whining is whining. You want reality.. spend a few thousand dollars on a real pilots licence, then even more on getting yourself insturment rated and fly a real plane.. otherwise get a grip... this was what.. 30-60 dollars (depending on your country).

Enjoy it for what it is.. a game.

UB6MEB9
12-11-2004, 05:38 PM
BTW Leadspitter.. this last post was not directed at you.. you were just posting in an unassuming and non condecending or whining tone some info you found.

RedDeth
12-11-2004, 05:46 PM
some of the guys posting here are guys from CWOS forums jumping on a band wagon of attacking copperhead.

copper has said nothing wrong or bad here. but if you go over to CWOS they have a thread dedicated to THIS thread so that those guys will come post here attacking him.

just note every reply that has the words WTF, assclowns etc and you will have most of the "complete waste of space" forum posters. trust me it gets much much worse over there too.

i dont know of any personal disputes between crash and copperhead and i personally dont like one over the other.

this is merely an attempt of CWOS to slam copperhead though. that much is apparent.

Propwash
12-11-2004, 05:55 PM
It is horrible over here. Someone save me.

BlitzPig_DDT
12-11-2004, 06:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Propwash:
It is horrible over here. Someone save me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call on God, but row away from the rocks.



===============================================
It's mind blowing that people come here all pompous, high and might and go on about how inexpensive this was and how we should all simply forget that it's a simulation, and everything that that means, entails, and implies.

For people who really don't care about accuracy, there is always CFS, CS, and Ace Combat and the like. And with CFS, you have an almost unlimited # of planes. So why stick around here?

If you truly don't care, then why bother to lord over people about it? You give yourselves away, in one way or another.

9th_Spitin
12-11-2004, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by UB6MEB9:

Yup this incarnation only has 36 posts.. last name got lost in the UBI shuffle.

Besides with all the self proclaimed know it alls around this place wtf would I want to post more for?

Just to have some assclowns spout out 3 or 4 different sets of numbers, or data, or this or that or... na just more fun to antagonize the weak minded like yourself that actually take offence to mild taunts in a jpeg and or text format.

I do fly online.. not much but some. I never claimed to be able to take Crash(or anyone) in a fair fight, heck probably not even in an unfair fight, but to me if I win or lose it doesn't matter.. I am here for the fun of the GAME. Don't think that I won't surprize you once in awhile though.. shark is not just a term used for pool.

Any patches given to us by Oleg and Co. are highly appriciated and I really couldn't care less about performace charts and climb rate data on any plane in the entire IL2 series.

Fun is fun, whining is whining. You want reality.. spend a few thousand dollars on a real pilots licence, then even more on getting yourself insturment rated and fly a real plane.. otherwise get a grip... this was what.. 30-60 dollars (depending on your country).

Enjoy it for what it is.. a game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did not make any attacks at you. All I have done in this thread was stand up for a allie to my squad. The only thing that you have added to this thread is to try and belittle others and make stupid or wiseass remarks, which neither have been constructive or helpfull to anyone.

UB6MEB9
12-11-2004, 07:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Propwash:
It is horrible over here. Someone save me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call on God, but row away from the rocks.



===============================================
It's mind blowing that people come here all pompous, high and might and go on about how inexpensive this was and how we should all simply forget that it's a simulation, and everything that that means, entails, and implies.

For people who really don't care about accuracy, there is always CFS, CS, and Ace Combat and the like. And with CFS, you have an almost unlimited # of planes. So why stick around here?

If you truly don't care, then why bother to lord over people about it? You give yourselves away, in one way or another. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Refering to me?

Lord over people about it? Find one other post that I have done so...

Why I don't fly any of the CFS series online... cheats. Plain and simple, while accuracy in the fm is irrelevant, the fact that the 109 one might be chasing at any given time has rear facing cannons is just a tad over bearing. This will never happen in the IL2 series.

Give myself away.. never to a BP.. they are unclean. Well.. maybe Nutz but thats it.

UB6MEB9
12-11-2004, 07:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 9th_Spitin:

I did not make any attacks at you. All I have done in this thread was stand up for a allie to my squad. The only thing that you have added to this thread is to try and belittle others and make stupid or wiseass remarks, which neither have been constructive or helpfull to anyone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never said you attacked me... just somewhat answered your condecending questions.

True I stirred the pot.. but what do you think Copperhead was doing with...<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well for comaparison do you happen to have the "CORRECT & UN-TAMPERD" perfomance numbers for the German aircaft of that time?

(i say correct & un-tamperd becuase it has long been my personal belife that the person/persons that usually post those same numbers on the German aircaft would likely find it benifical to thier imedate self interst in the sim if they contenually posted incorrect or intentionally falseified perfomance numbers for thier favorite LW aircraft.) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> statements? Looking for friends?

Doubt it.

This is the reason I responded as I did...

**** it.. to take a line from The Impossibles.." you got me monologing.." shame on me.

HayateAce
12-11-2004, 08:31 PM
So how 'bout we slide back to talking P38s?

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p38-11.jpg

faustnik
12-11-2004, 09:59 PM
RedDeth,

You really don't think it is wrong to call people who fly LW planes online Nazi's? Do you think it is right to claim that LW FB pilots who post data are altering data? How can you possibly support that?

Sorry to steal the thread but, this is a real issue here. Yeah, Crash and I have no respect for Copperhead anymore, but, it took him countless posts like the one here to get us to that point.

What Crash posted was the honest truth, about time someone made it painfully clear.

Spittin,

Do you agree with the position of your "allie". Interesting that you would claim Copperhead as that. Out of all the 310th squad he is the only member that I have ever seen make a posts like that.

********************************

And HayateAce, great pic with the P-38 on skis!


*******************************

Sorry Leadspitter, I appreciate your great post with great data a lot! The 190 data you posted in ORR is a gold mine of info! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

USAflyer
12-11-2004, 10:04 PM
I got an idea. Ban em all and let God sort'em out.

9th_Spitin
12-11-2004, 10:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
RedDeth,

You really don't think it is wrong to call people who fly LW planes online Nazi's? Do you think it is right to claim that LW FB pilots who post data are altering data? How can you possibly support that?

Sorry to steal the thread but, this is a real issue here. Yeah, Crash and I have no respect for Copperhead anymore, but, it took him countless posts like the one here to get us to that point.

What Crash posted was the honest truth, about time someone made it painfully clear.

Spittin,

Do you agree with the position of your "allie". Interesting that you would claim Copperhead as that. Out of all the 310th squad he is the _only_ member that I have ever seen make a posts like that.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have not seen any post about anything, and I said that if there was a issue about a thread, it should have been handled right there. If he was wrong, then he was wrong, but I dont know about the incedent that you are refering to. I do claim him and his squad as allies, they have backed our squad many times and we have never had any problems with any of them, sorry if crash has.

RedDeth
12-11-2004, 11:39 PM
exactly my point. i saw the thread when it was first posted. nothing was ever said about nazis etc etc.

just my thoughts. i have been banned for much less than what has been thrown at copperhead though. but thats just because im more handsome than all the mods http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Copperhead310th
12-11-2004, 11:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
Copper didn't use any names Crash.

That was uncalled for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WHen he calls me a Nazi because I fly for a virtual JG squadron, then it's entirely called for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm excuse me but when the hell did you EVER her me say "Crash your a nazi" Ever?

Now i have from time to time insinuated that there May or MAY NOT be soem ppl who harbor those kinds of views here. But i have Never named any names. and i challege you to find a place where i have. nore would i ever.
I make no bones about the fact that i wold love nothing dearly than to get my hands on a real life Nazi so i could squeeze the life out of him.
I think that what it is is that your missing the point intirely. and i had thougth that i had already explained my point of veiw. obviousely you weren't reading.
just beacuse you in a Virtual JG does NOT by any streatch of the imagination make you a scum sucking worthless POS nazi. far from it.

When i say that i think the LW guys are being bais twords their side of things i mean IN THE SIM. No matter what anyone says they want to win. and aome ppl unforutuantly just don't have the intestenal fortitude to do it with any honor but would much rather have the tabels tilted thier way. I have seen this many times over the past three years.. the LW crowd is an efective lobby. But i'n not going to get into all that.
Crash if i offended you i apologize but never have i EVER called you persoanlly a Nazi.
i compeatly dislike the fact that...on the surface...at least from my POV....some but not all of the LW crowd would love nothing more than an unbalanced playing feild where they can just dominte all others with out fail.
While i'm sure that somewhere out there on the internt, in some little corner of the world.... there is some guy wareing a WWII German Officers uniform with a Nazi flag & picture of Adolph, hanging on his wall right nest to his copy of Mien Komph flying around in some sim somewhere fighting for the fatherland. But Even if it was in this sim...and even if i knew who he or she was....never would i say....YOU are a Nazi.

and it's no great secret i'm not the best pilot out there. i have said the same thing about my self many time here on these forums. and lest i can laugh about it and still have fun.

I really have nothing else to say. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


As for what i posted in the ORR a couple of weeks ago....i was wrong....very out of line...and drunk at the time i posted it.
the next day when i say olegs reply in my mail box i wrote him a very long letter apologising. and that was before i knew i was baned. i apologized for what was said already. if that's not good enough oh well.
as for CWOS....i have no concern what thier saying over thier and i'm not even going to bother to look. it's not worth my time.

Copperhead310th
12-12-2004, 12:04 AM
My only coments in this thread were my opinions that some PPl posting Flight test data (not all) would like to see things in an unbalanced way IN regard to the sim it's self. sigh.
i never named any names, pointed any fingers, or anything else of the like. Is it SO inconsivable that some one would post inaccurate data on thier personal favorite aircraft? dam i just don't know what else to say.

Leadspitter i'm VERY sorry i trashed this thin man. was totally my fault it got off track. Sorry.

BlitzPig_DDT
12-12-2004, 12:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
I make no bones about the fact that i wold love nothing dearly than to get my hands on a real life Nazi so i could squeeze the life out of him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Given the choice, it would be much better to castrate a commie bastard. You know, America's REAL enemy, _and_ for most of the past 60 years.

Everything about them is pure evil, but they won the war and were on our side during it as a matter of convenience, so, they're A-Ok.

Furthermore, I can point out MANY more "evil" people and groups throughout history. One is still with us in most of the world. I won't start that flame war by mentioning it, but a large contingent does have strong ties to Italy.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>just beacuse you in a Virtual JG does NOT by any streatch of the imagination make you a scum sucking worthless POS nazi. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice to see someone say that. Most won't though as they fly the Red Star proudly.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When i say that i think the LW guys are being bais twords their side of things i mean IN THE SIM. No matter what anyone says they want to win. and aome ppl unforutuantly just don't have the intestenal fortitude to do it with any honor but would much rather have the tabels tilted thier way. I have seen this many times over the past three years.. the LW crowd is an efective lobby. But i'n not going to get into all that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not NEARLY as much as the red crowd. The LW set has ALWAYS been at a disadvantage due to the contruction of the sim. They've been forced to speak often and loudly because of the opposition. Nevermind how optimistically their rides are modeled or how customized the entire flight engine is for them.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i compeatly dislike the fact that...on the surface...at least from my POV....some but not all of the LW crowd would love nothing more than an unbalanced playing feild where they can just dominte all others with out fail. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmm....sounds familiar. Could be because I was always on the low end of that tilted field in IL2 though.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>While i'm sure that somewhere out there on the internt, in some little corner of the world.... there is some guy wareing a WWII German Officers uniform with a Nazi flag & picture of Adolph, hanging on his wall right nest to his copy of Mien Komph flying around in some sim somewhere fighting for the fatherland. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is. He's on this forum, and loves to b|tch about this game and talk about how much better Targetware is. You should see the pics. Scary. lol



BTW Copper, I'm not trying to start a war with you. I have nothing against you. I'm just sick of the situation that you happened to highlight, so I wanted to comment on it. You were not singled out.

Copperhead310th
12-12-2004, 12:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
I make no bones about the fact that i wold love nothing dearly than to get my hands on a real life Nazi so i could squeeze the life out of him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Given the choice, it would be much better to castrate a commie bastard. You know, America's REAL enemy, _and_ for most of the past 60 years.

Everything about them is pure evil, but they won the war and were on our side during it as a matter of convenience, so, they're A-Ok.

Furthermore, I can point out MANY more "evil" people and groups throughout history. One is still with us in most of the world. I won't start that flame war by mentioning it, but a large contingent does have strong ties to Italy.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>just beacuse you in a Virtual JG does NOT by any streatch of the imagination make you a scum sucking worthless POS nazi. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice to see someone say that. Most won't though as they fly the Red Star proudly.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When i say that i think the LW guys are being bais twords their side of things i mean IN THE SIM. No matter what anyone says they want to win. and aome ppl unforutuantly just don't have the intestenal fortitude to do it with any honor but would much rather have the tabels tilted thier way. I have seen this many times over the past three years.. the LW crowd is an efective lobby. But i'n not going to get into all that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not NEARLY as much as the red crowd. The LW set has ALWAYS been at a disadvantage due to the contruction of the sim. They've been forced to speak often and loudly because of the opposition. Nevermind how optimistically their rides are modeled or how customized the entire flight engine is for them.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i compeatly dislike the fact that...on the surface...at least from my POV....some but not all of the LW crowd would love nothing more than an unbalanced playing feild where they can just dominte all others with out fail. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmm....sounds familiar. Could be because I was always on the low end of that tilted field in IL2 though.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>While i'm sure that somewhere out there on the internt, in some little corner of the world.... there is some guy wareing a WWII German Officers uniform with a Nazi flag & picture of Adolph, hanging on his wall right nest to his copy of Mien Komph flying around in some sim somewhere fighting for the fatherland. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is. He's on this forum, and loves to b|tch about this game and talk about how much better Targetware is. You should see the pics. Scary. lol



BTW Copper, I'm not trying to start a war with you. I have nothing against you. I'm just sick of the situation that you happened to highlight, so I wanted to comment on it. You were not singled out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gotcha.

will only answer the 1st part. Why? 2 great unlces killed in Action in France by nazi's in WWII. As for the comunist thing...i've never given it much thought. it is true that Stallin was the lesser of 2 evils. But i've never givin it much thought.

Lastly. For the people that don't have any brains in there heads at all. My spelling is just fine. it's my typing that sucks donkey but.
I spell fine...but i henpeck fast..which leads to typos and mispspellings. and rather than waste time to go back and correct it.. like a few others on her...i just lest it go.

BlitzPig_DDT
12-12-2004, 12:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
Gotcha.

will only answer the 1st part. Why? 2 great unlces killed in Action in France by nazi's in WWII. As for the comunist thing...i've never given it much thought. it is true that Stallin was the lesser of 2 evils. But i've never givin it much thought. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We clearly are on different sides of that coin.

Though it is the same coin, that describes each as evil. lol

BuzzU
12-12-2004, 12:56 AM
CWOS has nothing on this thread.


Now about that P-38?

HayateAce
12-12-2004, 02:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:

And HayateAce, great pic with the P-38 on skis!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P38's skis are a joke in this game.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Here's a chart that proves it:

http://accelerateu.org/graphic_resources/ACF113C.gif

woofiedog
12-12-2004, 02:27 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Excellent Charts LeadSpitter_!
Thank's

Korolov
12-12-2004, 02:53 AM
This thread needs a swift kick in the a**.

Or more P-38s.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/38_winter1.jpg

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/38_winter2.jpg

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
12-12-2004, 03:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
I just want to clear something up, for some of you who may not know or understand where Copperhead is coming from.

Copperhead has been a friend, but his running of the mouth has started to really upset me lately. So, with no due regard to Copperhead, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gifI am going to shed some light.

Copperhead is a mediocre pilot at best. He believes that because the U.S. helped win the war, it is obvious that U.S. aircraft must be better. Copperhead has met some exceptional online LW pilots. He believes that he should win, based on the outcome of the war, but thats not the case. He proved this to me by challenging me 1v1 to see once and for all if it was his aircraft or not. I took a bf-109 G10. He took a P-47 D27. He made the terms that we should be at co-altitude at 3000m. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Needless to say, the day did not go well for Copperhead. All I had to do was avoid his head on fire, roll over the top onto his six, and take off his wing. I did this 3 or 4 times before he got really upset.

Copperhead lost because of sub-par piloting skills and lack of effective tactics for the aircraft he is flying. But rather than admit that, he would rather just spend his time typing on UBI about how all LW pilots are biased so we can keep our "uber" planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif and that the U.S. is the victim of a great Oleg conspiricy against him.

I for one am quite tired of reading it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

p0wn3d http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

x__CRASH__x
12-12-2004, 03:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by USAflyer:
I got an idea. Ban em all and let God sort'em out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

of your 16 posts, the 5 I have read have been a call to ban someone. Are you the spokesperson for the stick in the a$$ club? If you don't have anything to add, then just STFU and let the adults talk. If anyone wanted you to do a Mods job you would be handed the keys.

MEGILE
12-12-2004, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> While i'm sure that somewhere out there on the internt, in some little corner of the world.... there is some guy wareing a WWII German Officers uniform with a Nazi flag & picture of Adolph, hanging on his wall right nest to his copy of Mien Komph flying around in some sim somewhere fighting for the fatherland. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah Copperhead... and WW2 is still being fought.

Interesting LS, I assume you have mailed this information to Oleg?

USAflyer
12-12-2004, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>of your 16 posts, the 5 I have read have been a call to ban someone. Are you the spokesperson for the stick in the a$$ club? If you don't have anything to add, then just STFU and let the adults talk. If anyone wanted you to do a Mods job you would be handed the keys.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In response to your question, no. However, I have found every single one of your posts offensive and counter-productive to the community. I suggest you re-read the terms of use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
You should be thankful that at least a few of the mods think you are funny (btw i dont) because you are treading on thin ice son.
good day.

Daiichidoku
12-12-2004, 11:38 AM
It is kinda insane that that this thread got the way it did...


Started perfectly reasonbly...lets get back to the 38

Copperhead has some good onfo to share on US types...COPPERHEAD, lets stick with it, shall we?...also, you need to post some more Jug-aphelia, you know wherre

COPPERHEAD, just stick with the facts, ma'am, post aboput the 38 here, the 47 at the other thre4ad, and keep anthing you think about those who post max stats for LW in the "LW flyers post max stats" thread, hehe

I noticed in the "Thunderbolt things" thread someone took a jab at you...I noticed you didnt respond to it, as if it rolled off your back....either that, or you havent seen it.....in any case, forget it, ignore, get to the task and hand, sir



Best way to have ppl see how badly mauled the 38 is, is to keep posting real vintage data from known or credible sources, as seems to be gettting done for the most part



Leadspitter, I know this thread has so far concerned 38 performance numbers, do you have any info on wether or not the 38 had fire extinguishers? and if so, which models...I always thought G models and up had Fire Ex. eq, and when FB got it, they got it right, but now the Fire Ex eq gone aqgain

LeadSpitter_
12-12-2004, 12:01 PM
Daiichidoku as for the extinguishers I have seen them on p38j 5 lo and some p38 Ls but as far as i know the factory did not produce them with extinguishers but it seemed rare. I have seen p38fs with them as well in the aluetians but think they were field mods of b24 extinguishers put into the engines becuase of severy weather conditions

Same with the mirrors on the mustang almost everyone used them 3 different types and had them but did not come that way from the factory.

So only way to do it right is to make field mod versions which have them I guess and then have the factory stock without them.

x__CRASH__x
12-12-2004, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by USAflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>of your 16 posts, the 5 I have read have been a call to ban someone. Are you the spokesperson for the stick in the a$$ club? If you don't have anything to add, then just STFU and let the adults talk. If anyone wanted you to do a Mods job you would be handed the keys.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In response to your question, no. However, I have found every single one of your posts offensive and counter-productive to the community. I suggest you re-read the TermsOfUse. You should be thankful that at least a few of the mods think you are funny (btw i dont) because you are treading on thin ice son.
good day. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Golly Dad! Your condescending tone and obvious superiority to me have sure put me in my place! I had no idea you were in so good with the Mods as to gauge where I tread. I guess we shouldn't upset you! Thanks for putting me straight! I was so wrong for trying to have a little fun in a gaming forum! And humor? Well, if YOU don't find it funny, I guess no one should, eh? pffffffffffffft

Seriously, if you found my posts "offensive" than you should reevaluate your social skills. Your skin is much too thin to interact with other human beings. And before you throw the TOS at me again, you ought to read it. You could be in violation just as easy as anyone.
What exactly have you brought to the community other than your lack of humor and good nature? Get over yourself, Pop! Ask Mom to get off the couch and help you relieve some tension. As Robin Williams once said: "You are in more dire need of a blow job than any man in history!" Maybe you can ask Santa for some viagra this year. Or that sense of humore you've always wanted, yet lacked.

Ho Ho Ho.

joeap
12-12-2004, 03:24 PM
Good some people should lighten up and stuff. No need to call to ban evervone you don't like. Sit back and laugh, it's internet.

sniper-690
12-12-2004, 05:02 PM
Get me a beer for Gods sake http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Korolov
12-12-2004, 05:11 PM
"Ye not buyeth a single six pack for thy Player, and He tires of the relentless bull-droppings!"

NorrisMcWhirter
12-12-2004, 05:26 PM
LOL.

corking thread - it just gets better around here.

Is there actually a forum for this game where you can go without getting accused of being a nazi for flying LW or where people have actually put something that occurred 60 years ago behind them?

The Germans bombed someone's chip shop that I know(!) They also tried to shoot down my dad's friend who was a gunner on a Lanc (in actual fact, the Americans show his plane down more times than the Germans did but that's no surprise). Yet, I've worked with Germans/drink with them/talk with them about the war..none of them are Nazis and all of them are glad that the Allies won in the end.

FFS'...

Anyone got Half Life 2? I purchased it today and the water is a whole lot better than PF on my old GF4 card http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,
Norris

VMF513_Viper
12-12-2004, 06:59 PM
My Suggestion to all involved i nthis thread. tread Softly or this WILL Be locked.

I suggest you all drop the Politics and move on with a more Calm tone.

Directed toward Crash and Copperhead Take it privately Fellas....Thats all i have to say.

Viper

p1ngu666
12-12-2004, 07:06 PM
before u strangle nazi, tell him tuskegee story http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/p38red2.jpg
**** skin, intended for great fliers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/p38red1.jpg

RedDeth
12-12-2004, 09:43 PM
lol a tuskegee P-38. funny but cool looking. i want one.

man i must be losing my touch. normally i get 10 people copying my replies......Dang it ED Earl im getting too vanilla for this forum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

lrrp22
12-12-2004, 10:24 PM
.

Hetzer_II
12-13-2004, 01:20 AM
wrong place..

carguy_
12-13-2004, 03:11 AM
Wow looks like someone finally said the whole truth about Copperhead heheh

Copperhead you really should take a step back and rethink what you post around here.Geez if I had so much stress out of visiting the forum I wouldn`d be viewing it daily.

nicolas10
12-13-2004, 07:24 AM
Yeah now gibbage's turn please!

Nic