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shotdownski
07-06-2005, 09:01 AM
Found this while digging through Bearcat's bookmark link (thanks BC). No more complaints about trim and handling difficulty in the 4.01 FM...enjoy.

Harnessing the Hawk
Flying a P-40E and trying to keep your cool

by Jeff Ethell

In 1988, Col Jeff Ethell, well-known aviation author and pilot, had the opportunity to fly Bill Anderson's P-40E Kittyhawk at the National Warplane Museum. Having never flown a P-40 before, Ethell recounts the exciting adventure, describing the challenges and unexpected trills of piloting one of World War II's most recognized fighters for the first time.

Settled into cruise, I glanced at the coolant temperature (a constant exercise) €" upper green just short of 110 degrees C, then at the oil pressure and temperature €" in the green. Ever so slowly the temperatures on the Allison engine crept down while the speed crept up. At last I could grab the big tractor brake type handle for the cowl flaps, squeeze the release and raise it to neutral. The slipstream, pushing for all it was worth, caught me by surprise €¦ I had to push down on the lever to keep it from banging to closed. The P-40E Kittyhawk immediately responded by gaining speed. Those "cooling gills," as the British call them, produce a great deal of drag when opened on the belly of the fighter but are the only recourse to cooling a hot engine alter a climb at military power.

A quick glance around the cockpit proved I had to tidy things up. The P-40 is a genuine product of the 1930s €" with levers, switches, pumps and gizmos all over. In order to fly one it would help if the pilot had a steamship captain's license or doubled as a concert organist on one of those massive multiple register instruments which require all kinds of pulling and shoving of stops and levers.

With all in place, I tried a few turns and was surprised by the rapid ailerons. By comparison, the P-51 is locked in cement. A glance down the nose gives the pilot a more pronounced feeling of sitting far back behind things than the Mustang due to the pronounced carburetor scoop atop the cowling. And slightly to the right, atop this impressive nose, is a genuine ring and bead fixed gunsight, straight out of "G-8 And His Battle Aces." A glance out the sides of the canopy was another shock €" there was hardly any wing out there. No wonder the ailerons are so responsive.

As the adrenaline from my first takeoff was reabsorbed, I took time to drink in my surroundings. I was flying the first fighter my Dad checked out in at Luke Field in 1941. Not only that, it was painted in the colors of Flying Tiger ace R.T. Smith, a good friend who had flown with Dad later in the war. In spite of being surpassed as World War II went on, the P-40 Hawk series became America's symbol of determination to beat a tenacious enemy as Spitfire was to the British.

After takeoff, I climbed to a safe altitude, leveled off with the power back to 30 inches and 2,000 rpm, and began to get the feel of the Kittyhawk. The more I handled the fighter, the more pleased I became with the plane. Though the elevators tend toward being heavy, they are certainly no heavier than a Mustang. The best test I could give the ailerons was a roll. Nose down to get above 200 mph, nose up and . . . wham! I was caught completely by surprise at the extremely rapid roll rate. Before I quite knew what was happening, the fighter went all the way around. Roll again €¦ same thing, less surprise. Again €¦ exhilaration, freedom. Again €¦ sheer joy. I had discovered the most delightful aspect of the P-40 without having heard about it.

Alter years of reading that the P-40 could not maneuver, particularly with a Zero, and that it had to make diving slash attacks to be effective, I had come to accept the general opinion that it was outclassed by almost everything else flying. Sitting in the cockpit, with the controls in my hands, having written a book about the aircraft and said all those things, the accepted history in my brain was wrestling with the seat of my pants. No question it did not have the top speed and high altitude performance to disengage targets at will, but it was certainly more maneuverable than other American fighters, particularly the P-51.

One other thing to check out €¦ I shoved the nose down. Within a few seconds speed was picking up rapidly until I was approaching 400 mph with no effort. The drawback to all this speed is having to virtually stand on the left rudder to keep the ball centered. Every power or speed change brings an immediate trim change with the pilot must either counteract or trim out. It can be a real handful in a dive or a loop. A gradual pull out was a fight with very heavy elevators but no question the P-40 could rip through an enemy formation and get away. If the Zero was more maneuverable it must have been fantastic. I began to appreciate Saburo Sakai's comments in his book "Samurai." Of the fighters he faced during 1942, he considered a well-handled P-40 to be among the most formidable. I now understood why. Of the many types I have flown, this Curtiss product is among the most enjoyable to fly.

By my third flight, several days later, I eagerly headed out and jumped into the cockpit, ready for some genuine aviating. This would be my first flight from a paved runway so I had some apprehension. Without exception wartime and current pilots have said it behaves badly when away from the grass, particularly in a crosswind, as the manual makes very plain €" "Avoid cross-wind landings whenever practicable." No advice on how to handle them €¦ just avoid them. There was a constant crosswind around 15 degrees from the right at 10 knots or so. With assurances it could be handled, I leapt off again to patrol the skies and chase imaginary Zeros with my ring and bead sight.

Back to the field, left break and around onto final with gear and flaps down. As the long nose settled toward the runway it was clearly pointing to the right as I corrected for the crosswind. Right wing down, left rudder and I brought it down onto the runway with no bounce €" I was on and tracking straight! What a relief. The tail came down and she was still going straight.

Slowing down to under 40 mph, just as I started to let out the breath I had been holding, the Kitty darted to the right quicker than I could respond. The runway edge had quickly disappeared beneath the right wing by the time I stabbed left rudder €" it was so stiff that it felt as if I had kicked a brick wall. Once straight, she went for the right again. This time I had to tap left brake while stabbing left rudder and fight her all the way down to a stop. Even the last few miles an hour were a workout.

As I pulled off the end of the runway and braked to a stop, my legs were jumping on the pedals and I noticed the sweat under my flight suit. Almost in a stupor I raised the flaps and cranked the canopy back, then checked the coolant temp €" YOW! She was at redline again and the red warning light was flickering. Cowl flaps were open but facing downwind no air was coming through the radiator. Without enough time to feel sorry for myself, I taxied back to parking and shut down, then lapsed into a state of semi consciousness after making sure mags and battery/generator switches were off.

On the last roll-out the P-40 of landing legend rose up and bit me in the hind end, just to let me know who had tamed whom. Suitably chastised, I sat still in the cockpit for a few minutes, basking in the experience of having flown an airplane and not having simply driven one like a car. That is what continues to attract me to these great warbirds of the past. Not only were they part of what won World War II, but they had to be flown by men who relished the challenge for its sake. To have been a part of that, even though it has been so many decades ago and is but a shadow of actual combat with its horrible realities, causes me to admire the men who flew. There will never be another breed quite like them.

shotdownski
07-06-2005, 09:01 AM
Found this while digging through Bearcat's bookmark link (thanks BC). No more complaints about trim and handling difficulty in the 4.01 FM...enjoy.

Harnessing the Hawk
Flying a P-40E and trying to keep your cool

by Jeff Ethell

In 1988, Col Jeff Ethell, well-known aviation author and pilot, had the opportunity to fly Bill Anderson's P-40E Kittyhawk at the National Warplane Museum. Having never flown a P-40 before, Ethell recounts the exciting adventure, describing the challenges and unexpected trills of piloting one of World War II's most recognized fighters for the first time.

Settled into cruise, I glanced at the coolant temperature (a constant exercise) €" upper green just short of 110 degrees C, then at the oil pressure and temperature €" in the green. Ever so slowly the temperatures on the Allison engine crept down while the speed crept up. At last I could grab the big tractor brake type handle for the cowl flaps, squeeze the release and raise it to neutral. The slipstream, pushing for all it was worth, caught me by surprise €¦ I had to push down on the lever to keep it from banging to closed. The P-40E Kittyhawk immediately responded by gaining speed. Those "cooling gills," as the British call them, produce a great deal of drag when opened on the belly of the fighter but are the only recourse to cooling a hot engine alter a climb at military power.

A quick glance around the cockpit proved I had to tidy things up. The P-40 is a genuine product of the 1930s €" with levers, switches, pumps and gizmos all over. In order to fly one it would help if the pilot had a steamship captain's license or doubled as a concert organist on one of those massive multiple register instruments which require all kinds of pulling and shoving of stops and levers.

With all in place, I tried a few turns and was surprised by the rapid ailerons. By comparison, the P-51 is locked in cement. A glance down the nose gives the pilot a more pronounced feeling of sitting far back behind things than the Mustang due to the pronounced carburetor scoop atop the cowling. And slightly to the right, atop this impressive nose, is a genuine ring and bead fixed gunsight, straight out of "G-8 And His Battle Aces." A glance out the sides of the canopy was another shock €" there was hardly any wing out there. No wonder the ailerons are so responsive.

As the adrenaline from my first takeoff was reabsorbed, I took time to drink in my surroundings. I was flying the first fighter my Dad checked out in at Luke Field in 1941. Not only that, it was painted in the colors of Flying Tiger ace R.T. Smith, a good friend who had flown with Dad later in the war. In spite of being surpassed as World War II went on, the P-40 Hawk series became America's symbol of determination to beat a tenacious enemy as Spitfire was to the British.

After takeoff, I climbed to a safe altitude, leveled off with the power back to 30 inches and 2,000 rpm, and began to get the feel of the Kittyhawk. The more I handled the fighter, the more pleased I became with the plane. Though the elevators tend toward being heavy, they are certainly no heavier than a Mustang. The best test I could give the ailerons was a roll. Nose down to get above 200 mph, nose up and . . . wham! I was caught completely by surprise at the extremely rapid roll rate. Before I quite knew what was happening, the fighter went all the way around. Roll again €¦ same thing, less surprise. Again €¦ exhilaration, freedom. Again €¦ sheer joy. I had discovered the most delightful aspect of the P-40 without having heard about it.

Alter years of reading that the P-40 could not maneuver, particularly with a Zero, and that it had to make diving slash attacks to be effective, I had come to accept the general opinion that it was outclassed by almost everything else flying. Sitting in the cockpit, with the controls in my hands, having written a book about the aircraft and said all those things, the accepted history in my brain was wrestling with the seat of my pants. No question it did not have the top speed and high altitude performance to disengage targets at will, but it was certainly more maneuverable than other American fighters, particularly the P-51.

One other thing to check out €¦ I shoved the nose down. Within a few seconds speed was picking up rapidly until I was approaching 400 mph with no effort. The drawback to all this speed is having to virtually stand on the left rudder to keep the ball centered. Every power or speed change brings an immediate trim change with the pilot must either counteract or trim out. It can be a real handful in a dive or a loop. A gradual pull out was a fight with very heavy elevators but no question the P-40 could rip through an enemy formation and get away. If the Zero was more maneuverable it must have been fantastic. I began to appreciate Saburo Sakai's comments in his book "Samurai." Of the fighters he faced during 1942, he considered a well-handled P-40 to be among the most formidable. I now understood why. Of the many types I have flown, this Curtiss product is among the most enjoyable to fly.

By my third flight, several days later, I eagerly headed out and jumped into the cockpit, ready for some genuine aviating. This would be my first flight from a paved runway so I had some apprehension. Without exception wartime and current pilots have said it behaves badly when away from the grass, particularly in a crosswind, as the manual makes very plain €" "Avoid cross-wind landings whenever practicable." No advice on how to handle them €¦ just avoid them. There was a constant crosswind around 15 degrees from the right at 10 knots or so. With assurances it could be handled, I leapt off again to patrol the skies and chase imaginary Zeros with my ring and bead sight.

Back to the field, left break and around onto final with gear and flaps down. As the long nose settled toward the runway it was clearly pointing to the right as I corrected for the crosswind. Right wing down, left rudder and I brought it down onto the runway with no bounce €" I was on and tracking straight! What a relief. The tail came down and she was still going straight.

Slowing down to under 40 mph, just as I started to let out the breath I had been holding, the Kitty darted to the right quicker than I could respond. The runway edge had quickly disappeared beneath the right wing by the time I stabbed left rudder €" it was so stiff that it felt as if I had kicked a brick wall. Once straight, she went for the right again. This time I had to tap left brake while stabbing left rudder and fight her all the way down to a stop. Even the last few miles an hour were a workout.

As I pulled off the end of the runway and braked to a stop, my legs were jumping on the pedals and I noticed the sweat under my flight suit. Almost in a stupor I raised the flaps and cranked the canopy back, then checked the coolant temp €" YOW! She was at redline again and the red warning light was flickering. Cowl flaps were open but facing downwind no air was coming through the radiator. Without enough time to feel sorry for myself, I taxied back to parking and shut down, then lapsed into a state of semi consciousness after making sure mags and battery/generator switches were off.

On the last roll-out the P-40 of landing legend rose up and bit me in the hind end, just to let me know who had tamed whom. Suitably chastised, I sat still in the cockpit for a few minutes, basking in the experience of having flown an airplane and not having simply driven one like a car. That is what continues to attract me to these great warbirds of the past. Not only were they part of what won World War II, but they had to be flown by men who relished the challenge for its sake. To have been a part of that, even though it has been so many decades ago and is but a shadow of actual combat with its horrible realities, causes me to admire the men who flew. There will never be another breed quite like them.

han freak solo
07-06-2005, 11:13 AM
I love stories like this! Keep 'em coming! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-06-2005, 11:18 AM
That was a very cool read. Thanks for the post. Quite often things like this get forgotten or lost in the bowels of archived threads.

The fact of the matter is, this sim is considerably easier than flying ANY real airplane and those who think that because they can fly a bird here, therefore they can "maybe" fly a real one are wearing some serious reality blinders.

If you can hop in the cockpit, press a single button to start your engines and potentially throttle up and take off, it's NOT realistic. Sure, comparatively it's much more difficult than anything else out there, but come on.

Don't get me wrong, I am (and have been) probably one of the staunchest supporters of Oleg and his wares. They represent, hands-down, the most fun and rewarding time I've ever spent on my pc (except for that extended time away from home and the webcam dealio Wifey and I had...that was pretty good too.)

Live vicariously, but don't go getting all serious and thinking that you are really a qualified warbird pilot a la Steve Hinton simply because you can do it in the sim.


Regards,
TB

SithSpeeder
07-06-2005, 12:00 PM
That was a great read!

Thanks for sharing.

* _54th_Speeder *

LStarosta
07-06-2005, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
That was a very cool read. Thanks for the post. Quite often things like this get forgotten or lost in the bowels of archived threads.

The fact of the matter is, this sim is considerably easier than flying ANY real airplane and those who think that because they can fly a bird here, therefore they can "maybe" fly a real one are wearing some serious reality blinders.

If you can hop in the cockpit, press a single button to start your engines and potentially throttle up and take off, it's NOT realistic. Sure, comparatively it's much more difficult than anything else out there, but come on.

Don't get me wrong, I am (and have been) probably one of the staunchest supporters of Oleg and his wares. They represent, hands-down, the most fun and rewarding time I've ever spent on my pc (except for that extended time away from home and the webcam dealio Wifey and I had...that was pretty good too.)

Live vicariously, but don't go getting all serious and thinking that you are really a qualified warbird pilot a la Steve Hinton simply because you can do it in the sim.


Regards,
TB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen. Quite simply, half of the simming population's prolly too fat to fit in a cockpit, and the half of those that can fit probably can't handle being tossed around in a GA aircraft, let alone a fighter...

han freak solo
07-06-2005, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
Amen. Quite simply, half of the simming population's prolly too fat to fit in a cockpit, and the half of those that can fit probably can't handle being tossed around in a GA aircraft, let alone a fighter... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">BAARRRFFFFF!!!!</span> D@mn, I did it again! Anyone got a hose and a squeegee to clean up this mess? I'm gonna have to repaint this 152 again! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

LStarosta
07-06-2005, 03:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
Amen. Quite simply, half of the simming population's prolly too fat to fit in a cockpit, and the half of those that can fit probably can't handle being tossed around in a GA aircraft, let alone a fighter... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">BAARRRFFFFF!!!!</span> D@mn, I did it again! Anyone got a hose and a squeegee to clean up this mess? I'm gonna have to repaint this 152 again! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus, what'd you eat?

han freak solo
07-06-2005, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
Amen. Quite simply, half of the simming population's prolly too fat to fit in a cockpit, and the half of those that can fit probably can't handle being tossed around in a GA aircraft, let alone a fighter... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">BAARRRFFFFF!!!!</span> D@mn, I did it again! Anyone got a hose and a squeegee to clean up this mess? I'm gonna have to repaint this 152 again! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus, what'd you eat? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just airsick again. Oh, Mexican food. It doesn't look like enchiladas anymore. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Bearcat99
07-06-2005, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shotdownski:
Found this while digging through Bearcat's bookmark link (thanks BC). No more complaints about trim and handling difficulty in the 4.01 FM...enjoy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah thats why I posted the link (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5691041633).... lots of good stuff there.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

It never ceases to amaze my how close Oleg & 1C got in the FMs.... and the bead and ring sight is missing in the cockpit.... it is in the external view but not in the pit.

Bearcat99
07-06-2005, 09:02 PM
The following excerpt is from a report of the Army Air Forces Board Project No. (M-1) 50 and is a summary of how the Merlin-powered Mustang and other American fighters compared in 1943:

The P-51B, from sea level to 11,000 ft, is some seven to ten miles per hour slower than the P-51A which is the fastest fighter at this altitude. Between 14,000 and 22,000 ft. the P-51B is about fifteen to twenty mph faster. From 22,000 ft the P-51B, in high blower, widens this speed advantage up to seventy-five mph at 30,000 ft. From sea level, the P-51B gradually gains on the P-38J and the P-47D until, at 16,000 ft. it has a speed of about 420 mph which is about ten mph faster than the P-38J and about twenty mph faster than the P-47D. Above 27,000 ft, the P-51B can no longer get war emergency power, but its speed of about 430 mph at 30,000 ft is equal to that of the P-47D and about twenty mph faster than the P-38J, both using war emergency power. The P-51B is capable of 400 mph at 40,000 ft.

The P-51B is by far the best climbing aircraft of all current American fighters. It takes about 4.5 minutes to get to 15,000 ft as against five minutes for the P-38J and about seven minutes for the P-47D. The P-51B maintains a lead of about .5 minute over the P-38J to 30,000 ft and reaches that altitude in about eleven minutes which is about 6.5 minutes faster than the P-47D.

In zooming the P-51B with the P-47D from level flight at cruising and high speeds, and from high speeds out of dives, the P-51B gains speed rapidly and leaves the P-47D far behind. In zooming the P-51B with the P-38J, from level flight at cruising speed, the fighters climb evenly at the start. However, the P-51B falls off while the P-38J keeps climbing. In zooms from high speeds (425 indicated air speed), the P-51B pulls away from the P-38J and its zoom ends considerably higher.

The diving characteristics of the P-51B are superior to those of any other fighter plane. It is exceptionally easy to handle and requires very little trimming. The P-51B dives away from all other fighters except the P-47D, against which the P-51B loses several hundred feet ahead in the initial pushover and then holds that position, apparently neither gaining nor losing distance.

The new seal-balanced ailerons of the P-51B give the fighter a faster rate of roll at all speeds than any other fighter except the P-47D with which it is equal at cruising speeds.

The search view of the P-51B is better than in the P-51A but is still obstructed above, to both sides, and to the rear, by the canopy construction. The view forward over the nose is considerably improved over the P-51A by the relocation of the carburetor air intake scoop, the elimination of the clear view panel on the left side of the windshield, and lowering of the nose of the engine one and one-half degrees.

The fighting qualities of the P-51B were compared with those of the P-47D-10 and the P-38J-5 and, briefly, with the P-39N-0 and the P-40N. The only maneuver the P-39 and P-40 have that is superior to the P-51B, is a slight advantage in a turning circle. In all other maneuvers, as well as performance, they are both far inferior. The P-51B has good performance at all altitudes, but above 20,000 ft the performance improves rapidly, and its best fighting altitude is between 25 and 35,000 ft. The rate of climb is outstanding, with an average of about 3,000 ft per minute from sea level to 25,000 ft. Above 20,000 ft. the overall fighting qualities of this aircraft are superior to those of all the other types used in the trials.

Later production P-51B/Cs were powered by the more powerful V-1650-7 engine, had their internal fuel capacity increased from 184 to 269 gallons, and some mounted six guns in the wings. Provisions were also made to carry two 110-gallon under wing fuel tanks that could be dropped when empty.
The combination of the Mustang€s aerodynamic fuselage, laminar flow wing, the fuel-efficient Merlin engine and an increased fuel capacity resulted in a first-class fighter with a range of over 2,000 miles. The P-51B/C was the world€s first true long-range escort fighter.

AusDerReihe
07-06-2005, 09:37 PM
i don't know if this is correct, but i assume that if you let somone with sim experience take the controls while in the air, he would probably fly better than someone without sim experience. i'm not talking about managing the aircraft over time, just level flight with a little up and down, left and right. i have heard stories of people who has been allowed to control aircraft for the first time in their lives, with the pilot in the other seat, who did reasonably well.

i'm talking level flight here, no take offs or landings, no barrle rolls, loops or dives or anything difficult.

wayno7777
07-06-2005, 09:51 PM
The main thing a sim cannot IMHO do is the seat of the pants motion feeling. Although if I put a fan behind the monitor and open my canopy it's close...

LStarosta
07-06-2005, 10:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AusDerReihe:
i don't know if this is correct, but i assume that if you let somone with sim experience take the controls while in the air, he would probably fly better than someone without sim experience. i'm not talking about managing the aircraft over time, just level flight with a little up and down, left and right. i have heard stories of people who has been allowed to control aircraft for the first time in their lives, with the pilot in the other seat, who did reasonably well.

i'm talking level flight here, no take offs or landings, no barrle rolls, loops or dives or anything difficult. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I agree 100%. Furthermore, it helps with your reflexes. You pretty much know how to manipulate the controls to achieve the desired result during flight. That's a very important thing that people overlook. Sims make it easier for control manipulation to become second nature,

msalama
07-06-2005, 10:09 PM
Yeah, but what if you had a flight engineer taking care of everything, and you only handled the controls? Now how different would _that_ be in, say, good summer VFR weather (i.e. zero wind, visibility unlimited etc.)?

Bearcat99
07-06-2005, 10:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AusDerReihe:
i don't know if this is correct, but i assume that if you let somone with sim experience take the controls while in the air, he would probably fly better than someone without sim experience. i'm not talking about managing the aircraft over time, just level flight with a little up and down, left and right. i have heard stories of people who has been allowed to control aircraft for the first time in their lives, with the pilot in the other seat, who did reasonably well.

i'm talking level flight here, no take offs or landings, no barrle rolls, loops or dives or anything difficult. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that all depends on the individual.... it is a whole different animal.... the turbulence... the noise... the vibration... the potential for nausea... the smell even... to a person whose only flying experience is a sim no matter how good they are in the sim.. the reality can be challenging. I know.... You are probably right though... the basics would be at least better understood by a simmer... once he got past the gravity thing it might be a bit easier..

AusDerReihe
07-07-2005, 02:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AusDerReihe:
i don't know if this is correct, but i assume that if you let somone with sim experience take the controls while in the air, he would probably fly better than someone without sim experience. i'm not talking about managing the aircraft over time, just level flight with a little up and down, left and right. i have heard stories of people who has been allowed to control aircraft for the first time in their lives, with the pilot in the other seat, who did reasonably well.

i'm talking level flight here, no take offs or landings, no barrle rolls, loops or dives or anything difficult. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that all depends on the individual.... it is a whole different animal.... the turbulence... the noise... the vibration... the potential for nausea... the smell even... to a person whose only flying experience is a sim no matter how good they are in the sim.. the reality can be challenging. I know.... You are probably right though... the basics would be at least better understood by a simmer... once he got past the gravity thing it might be a bit easier.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i just had a thought...some of the best simmers out there could potentially be terrified of the thought of getting on an airliner. i agree that it most likely depends on the individual. besides, in a R/L aircraft you wouldn't be able to reach the infamous 'refly' button. atleast i would be a bit scared of that thought http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AerialTarget
07-07-2005, 02:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
The fact of the matter is, this sim is considerably easier than flying ANY real airplane and those who think that because they can fly a bird here, therefore they can "maybe" fly a real one are wearing some serious reality blinders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not true. I can say with absolute certainty that this game is quite a bit harder than flying a real Cessna One Fifty Two.

F19_Ob
07-07-2005, 06:33 AM
Thanks for posting shotdownski.
Another one for the archive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif