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View Full Version : NYGM 2.1 Bug ?



mbabbs
07-04-2006, 04:08 AM
(Its a bit long - you might like to skip to the questions)

I playing on 100% with NYGM 2.1 cause its a great mod and I like my realsim.

However this doesn't seem right to me.

Its Jan 1940 right at the beginning of 'happy times' and I spot a convoy of 11+ merchants escorted by 4 screening vessels.

After managing to get infront of the convoy undetected I submerge to periscope depth and wait for the front escort to roll over me. Using the hydrophone I wait till its behind my boat before raising the scope, targeting a medium merchant and manouvering into a shooting position.

Minutes later one medium merchant explodes to the sound of two detonations.

Quickly I shift my target to a following large Merchant and loose another two torpedoes resulting in a satisfying chorus of explosions and a rapidly sinking vessel.

Now for my escape. So far I am undetected while through my scope I can see the night sky lit up by flares and the four escorts searching for the attacker. I set my course between two destroyers and move at slow and rigged for silent running.

20 minutes later after avoiding detection I am pinged. Oh well. I immediately crash dive to get depth before the 4 escorts get into an attack run and manage to get to 100 meters before the first charges begin to explode. All 4 escorts seem to be involved in the attack. I respond by twisting and turning and altering depth.

But can I shake them ? Not a hope.

Some two hours into the attack and my boat is devestated by charges. I lose all my tower equipment and just manage to prevent flooding. Fortunately my engines remain undamaged. I am really beginning to sweat now.

6 hours into the attack and the attackers finally run out of charges. Hooray ! I have survived ! Now to wait for them to leave and I can limp back to base.

But.

They don't leave. Ever.

They continue to ping and run attacks but with no charges. 24 (game)hours !!!!! after the first contact they are still pinging me every two minutes. My crew is so exhausted they cannot operate the engines and I have a few gasps of air remaining so the only thing I can do is emergency surface and surrender before my boat sinks to critical depth.

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This doesn't seem right to me.

1: In 1940 all 4 escorts would not have abandoned their convoy to hunt a single sub for 24 hours, especially after all their munitions were gone. Hunter Killer doctrine wasn't adopted till much later in the war.

2: I doubt destroyers would hang around pinging after munitions were used up. They would attract every sub around with that amount of pinging and present quite a good target just sitting there.

3: There is absolutely no way to get away from 4 destroyers (unless there is something in the manual I haven't read). I tried every trick I know.

4: I was using the RUB fatigue model. It was my first cruise, but I wouldn't expect my entire crew to be reduced to the point that they cannot operate the boat at all.

It does seem to be a bug to me unless I am missing something. Its Happy Times, but attacking a convoy is suicide if you are detected.

Thoughts ?

mbabbs
07-04-2006, 04:08 AM
(Its a bit long - you might like to skip to the questions)

I playing on 100% with NYGM 2.1 cause its a great mod and I like my realsim.

However this doesn't seem right to me.

Its Jan 1940 right at the beginning of 'happy times' and I spot a convoy of 11+ merchants escorted by 4 screening vessels.

After managing to get infront of the convoy undetected I submerge to periscope depth and wait for the front escort to roll over me. Using the hydrophone I wait till its behind my boat before raising the scope, targeting a medium merchant and manouvering into a shooting position.

Minutes later one medium merchant explodes to the sound of two detonations.

Quickly I shift my target to a following large Merchant and loose another two torpedoes resulting in a satisfying chorus of explosions and a rapidly sinking vessel.

Now for my escape. So far I am undetected while through my scope I can see the night sky lit up by flares and the four escorts searching for the attacker. I set my course between two destroyers and move at slow and rigged for silent running.

20 minutes later after avoiding detection I am pinged. Oh well. I immediately crash dive to get depth before the 4 escorts get into an attack run and manage to get to 100 meters before the first charges begin to explode. All 4 escorts seem to be involved in the attack. I respond by twisting and turning and altering depth.

But can I shake them ? Not a hope.

Some two hours into the attack and my boat is devestated by charges. I lose all my tower equipment and just manage to prevent flooding. Fortunately my engines remain undamaged. I am really beginning to sweat now.

6 hours into the attack and the attackers finally run out of charges. Hooray ! I have survived ! Now to wait for them to leave and I can limp back to base.

But.

They don't leave. Ever.

They continue to ping and run attacks but with no charges. 24 (game)hours !!!!! after the first contact they are still pinging me every two minutes. My crew is so exhausted they cannot operate the engines and I have a few gasps of air remaining so the only thing I can do is emergency surface and surrender before my boat sinks to critical depth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
This doesn't seem right to me.

1: In 1940 all 4 escorts would not have abandoned their convoy to hunt a single sub for 24 hours, especially after all their munitions were gone. Hunter Killer doctrine wasn't adopted till much later in the war.

2: I doubt destroyers would hang around pinging after munitions were used up. They would attract every sub around with that amount of pinging and present quite a good target just sitting there.

3: There is absolutely no way to get away from 4 destroyers (unless there is something in the manual I haven't read). I tried every trick I know.

4: I was using the RUB fatigue model. It was my first cruise, but I wouldn't expect my entire crew to be reduced to the point that they cannot operate the boat at all.

It does seem to be a bug to me unless I am missing something. Its Happy Times, but attacking a convoy is suicide if you are detected.

Thoughts ?

Messervy
07-04-2006, 06:39 AM
I had only one encounter thus far (3 patrols)and it wen`t preatty bad for me.

You can read it here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?m=2681003354&a=tpc&f=857101043

mbabbs
07-04-2006, 06:44 AM
Lucky for you there was only 1 !

It must be a bug. They shouldn't be hanging around doing attack runs without charges unless they are waiting for a Hunter Killer group to turn up. They should be protecting their convoy.

I realise HK groups aren't really modelled in the game and this might be the workaround, but not in Jan 1940.

mbabbs
07-04-2006, 08:34 AM
Just for tidyness.

I have to improve my evasion technique. It looks like you have to travel at 1 knt to evade.

I do think abandoning the convoy is an issue though, especially in Happy times.

Where2Wolf
07-04-2006, 09:27 AM
I abandoned the NYGM mod because of the fact that the destroyers and escorts had super sensors. I could not get rid of them in early 40. Now I am back with GW mod again.

Messervy
07-04-2006, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mbabbs:
Just for tidyness.

I have to improve my evasion technique. It looks like you have to travel at 1 knt to evade.

I do think abandoning the convoy is an issue though, especially in Happy times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There seems to be a fundamental flaw with this.
With 1 knot you can`t keep your depth.

Teddy Bar
07-04-2006, 07:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Messervy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mbabbs:
Just for tidyness.

I have to improve my evasion technique. It looks like you have to travel at 1 knt to evade.

I do think abandoning the convoy is an issue though, especially in Happy times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There seems to be a fundamental flaw with this.
With 1 knot you can`t keep your depth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG,WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG,WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

Crash Dive Blues!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=92883

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7/ixd2testimage10ho.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/859/ixd2testimage23cn.jpg

Teddy Bar
07-04-2006, 07:09 PM
mbabbs,
Thankyou for your well thought out post.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1: In 1940 all 4 escorts would not have abandoned their convoy to hunt a single sub for 24 hours, especially after all their munitions were gone. Hunter Killer doctrine wasn't adopted till much later in the war. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is not anything that we have control over. The percentage of escorts that may or may not respond is hard coded.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">2: I doubt destroyers would hang around pinging after munitions were used up. They would attract every sub around with that amount of pinging and present quite a good target just sitting there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If they have a lock on you they would, as they know that you must surface at sometime and they have bigger and better guns than you.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">3: There is absolutely no way to get away from 4 (1940) destroyers (unless there is something in the manual I haven't read). I tried every trick I know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thankfully this is not true. I am presuming that you may still be of the old mind set where ordering silent running enabled the SHIII Glingon Cloaking Device.

Please read these threads€¦
How to escape the œber-AI (NYGM2.0)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94201

In the immortal words of Ali G €˜Respect€, a new way of playing€¦
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93981

NYGM ruined my weekend
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94720

Crash Dive Blues!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=92883


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">4: It was my first cruise, but I wouldn't expect my entire crew to be reduced to the point that they cannot operate the boat at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you are using SH3 Cmdr it may be that you do not have the NYGM Crew Management enabled?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It does seem to be a bug to me unless I am missing something. Its Happy Times, but attacking a convoy seems suicide if you are detected. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wonder how many players are aware that u-boat€s & submarines attacked predominately at night and on the surface. Convoy battles were a night time exercise.

U-boats are fragile and when submerged very limited in the ability to travel far or for that long.

They were not undetectable when submerged, but when a u-boat attacks on the surface then this is not an issue.

In the video interview with Jurgen Oesten he relays how in 1939 while submerged, inferring that he was just not found due to any previous action, he was detected and attacked by a lone destroyer.

He goes on to say that the destroyer was very accurate and that the destroyer knew exactly where he was. This destroyer gave his u-boat a massive work over with him eventually ending up on the bottom at 134 metres with his u-boat extensively damaged and unable to move. He also relates that the hull was buckled in from a depth charge that also knocked the port diesel engine off it mounts.

It is inferred to have been over many hours possibly in double figures. On the 3rd night they surfaced to find that a trawler had been left there to watch for the u-boat possibly surfacing!

In NYGM TW v2.1 you can get sometimes get within 800 metres of an escort and not be detected.

I hope that this helps.

hueywolf123
07-05-2006, 12:24 AM
Yes, I must agree with Teddy here. Basically in whatever year, they knew as humans that breathing air was important.Yes, they will continue to ping as this is a fairly good sign that relief (for them) is on the way. They will remain in contact for as long as possible. I did escape from four just recently, but remained at 157m, ahead slow, no wild turning, nothing. Anything you do will give you away, I even sat at all stop for over an hour. At this depth the pinging is almost not there. It was sitting still that got me out of there, they couldn't hear me, I was a tad too deep for an accurate signal. When I thought I'd waited long enough, I decided to wait an hour more. Lucky, because about 30mins later we picked up a DD that wasn't there earlier - or rather, he was but he'd stopped too and was waiting for us to give ourselves away. It took me six hours (real time) to get away, it was epic, we took damage but nothing major. All that and we got nothing from the convoy.
This is a game of patience and nerve, who will crack first? The odds are against all of us from the start

fizilbert
07-05-2006, 01:02 PM
I, too, have escaped a 3 escort attack on my boat. I thought I wouldn't be able to escape, because they kept finding me no matter which way I turned. But I dove a little deeper, and I think a thermal layer helped, because suddenly I heard no more pinging. I was able to sneak away. Took several hours of real time, and atleast 4 hours game time.

Oh, and Teddy, if you're going to use the term, use it correctly; it's a Klingon Cloaking Device, not Glingon.