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DarkGarfield666
11-20-2007, 09:51 AM
I dont think its a scimitar so ive been thinking does eny1 Know what small sword/knife thing he uses the one on his back

DarkGarfield666
11-20-2007, 09:51 AM
I dont think its a scimitar so ive been thinking does eny1 Know what small sword/knife thing he uses the one on his back

Saiko_Mania
11-20-2007, 09:54 AM
i think its something like an arabian knife or something

im not sure

Azzerwazzer1191
11-20-2007, 09:57 AM
oh a scimitar is a sword?

lol now i know what the game engine name means

theassassin_07
11-20-2007, 10:03 AM
a Cutlass?

http://images.google.co.uk/images?gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&...=1&q=cutlass&spell=1 (http://images.google.co.uk/images?gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=cutlass&spell=1)

Google image page with them

DarkGarfield666
11-20-2007, 10:07 AM
i cant find 1 its really different from what ive seen its just a curved knife no flicky bit i really tryin 2 find out now LoL

Bobzer77
11-20-2007, 10:25 AM
Yes it is a scimitar, the saber and cutlass are copys mainly used by the navy's around 1700 and 1800.

maddog111
11-20-2007, 11:12 AM
ask arab people like...ME http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif that short thing is umm well one of these a khanjar (a dagger) or a scimiter is u people say ..btw there are some tall daggers lol

me-gud-u-bad
11-20-2007, 11:52 AM
maybe its just a short sword that ubi designed

arbiol
11-20-2007, 12:04 PM
... a dagger maybe?
scimitars are big swords

Altair179
11-20-2007, 01:08 PM
I am pretty sure it is his short sword... I don't have the game yet. I am one of the lucky aussies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Borenson
11-20-2007, 01:47 PM
It's not a scimitar, it's too short. Just some curved blade, if Ubi wanted you to know a name they would've put one there *****.

The_Assassin05
11-20-2007, 04:36 PM
<span class="ev_code_RED">Didn't the longsword or short sword be switched to be called a saber?</span>

shotty78
11-20-2007, 08:26 PM
A scimitar is a long sword that is curved. They were used by Arabian calvary to slice victims while on horse back. Similar in style to Samuri swords made in Japan, however not nearly as strong.

Altair's short dagger can best be described as that. A dagger that ubisoft designed.

His long sword is slightly harder to identify because time wise it is most likely a smitar, I believe his sword was always straight. Scimitars have always been curved and gave birth to sabers, which have a tendency to be straight(not always). However b/c of the time frame I would call his long sword a scimitar, one that happens to be straighter than noraml.

unnamedninja
11-20-2007, 11:27 PM
Actually it's pretty impossible to tell what sword is what aside from the european longsword. Because the sabre and scimitar had different designs depending on who made them, like the english had a different sabre to the french etc.

His starting sword after losing his ranks is, i guess a sabre, since that's the only type of sword i've seen which doesn't have a handguard. (aside from walking-stick katanas) The third and final sword could be a sabre too, or a scimitar, or the third and least likely option would be a falchion.

Oh and i have no idea what the knife is called, i guess i'll dig into my Vagrant Story weapon guide and take a look on google.

Tela
11-20-2007, 11:31 PM
The short-ish dagger-like weapon he uses...I recall hearing someone call it a machete(spelling?), but that could be wrong. My favorite weapon though! ^^

unnamedninja
11-20-2007, 11:55 PM
I guess it is a jambiya or a khanjar, i can't tell the difference between the two.

http://www.geocities.com/manojjdixit/Latest/Khanjarr.jpg

http://widforss.chiaro.mrfriday.com/auktioner/bilder/12/H03M_095.jpg

The designs vary a lot, some of these are straight, some curved etc. I guess weapons in those days didnt used to fall off a conveyor belt http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif makes them hard to classify.

Here's what some guy on a sword forum said about them though.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I have barely begun studying ethnographic arms, but as I understand it, the jambiya form originated in the Arabian Peninsula, likely in Oman and Yemen. These forms expanded geographically along the lines of Islamic expansion and trade networks. As George C. Stone puts it, some forms of this back-curving dagger exists wherever Muslim people have settled.

Others will correct this but I believe that the term Jambiya is used in Yemen and Saudi-Arabia, while khanjar is used in most other places. There are local names as well, the Moroccan koummiya for example.

The jambiya form merged with local ones as Islam diffused to the Maghreb in the west and Indonesia in the east. The best characteristics of all forms available were kept, producing the weapon most adequate to the Islamicized local groups. It's interesting that in places such as the Balkans - under Ottoman rule, khanjar forms remained fairly homogeneous. It's now hard to tell an Albanian khanjar from a Turkish or a Kurdish one. I do not know what the trend would be within the Persian Empire, but perhaps the Qadjar period was also fairly uniform?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

JehovahSoldier
11-21-2007, 01:47 AM
I believe it is what is called a kukri...
I own one and from what I could tell of the blade and the one that I have that is it... I am no expert or anything, but I have been very interested in weaponry, and so have read a quite a bit into this stuff.
I am not sure of the exact definition, but a kukri is a almost ******* length sword that is curved with the cutting edge on the inside of the curve, not the outside. It can also be used for stabbing or thrusting. Can be used as a secondary weapon where two weapon fighting is concerned. In that case, the kukri would be considered the secondary weapon and be more defensive.

BlackRabbit
11-21-2007, 02:55 AM
Just a short sword/middle eastern dagger.

If it's a replica of a real weapon I'm sure it has a name. Then again ubi could haave made it up.

Either way it's safe to call it a middle eastern shortsword.
Or even a curved shortsword.

paperwingsra
11-21-2007, 03:00 AM
isnt it possible that its just a custom made weapon?

not like made up or anything ... just not well known

Borenson
11-21-2007, 09:14 AM
It's not long enough to be called a sword at all. It basically looks like a curved machete, though not as wide.

As for the longer blade, I only know that the last one has the fancy handguard of a rapier and the curved blade of a scimitar.

unnamedninja
11-21-2007, 11:07 AM
I would say the longer sword is a sabre though, if you look at the picture. And the guard isn't quite like a rapier. Rapiers had basket guards which protect the entire hand, and the quillions would spiral around the blade. I dunno what the guard on his sabre is called though.

http://www.midtenrelics.com/blades/65saber.JPG

This is similar to Alty's sabre, the big difference is that his has a really fancy single quillion on the back, i guess it's to keep the opponents weapon well trapped downwards while you hit them with your off handed weapon, which would be a dagger. Or in Alty's case, punch them and then break their legs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think it's interesting how he's got that sabre, makes me wonder if it's something he lifted off a general he assassinated or something, i would say it doesn't look arabic.

Destrier
11-21-2007, 03:29 PM
His dagger is a dagger, i dont get why there is a discussion about that. Its a Arabic curved dagger.

His main sword i have not really looked at but i would think its a rapier. Its fast, he stabs with it rather than slashing most times.

Ok i just watched this video http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/125182.html

and i changed my mind about the sword. In that video its a European style saber but it seems to be from the wrong era...

Still it looks very cool!! Looks like a Cavalry age rapier.
http://www.midtenrelics.com/blades/65saber.JPG (this ones a civil war rapier).

Medieval rapiers were straight as far as i knew, curved rapiers were designed for use from horseback because the curve allowed you to slash and ride on easier. Strange for his fighting style a straight sword would have been better.

Saying that, from my memory i was sure my Altair had a straight sword... Gonna have to go have another go!

shotty78
11-21-2007, 03:56 PM
From what I remember only his last sword(gold handle) was curved. And I would call that one a scimitar. As for the previous swords, w/e they are they are out of place. Sabers/sabre and rapiers all came at a later time.

Eville23x
11-21-2007, 06:25 PM
The knife is definitely not a khukri. The Nepalese
were nowhere near the Middle East. And if I am not mistaken the sword goes from being a straight bladed one (or hand and a half.) handed European style to a calvary sword with a gold basket hilt.

JehovahSoldier
11-21-2007, 06:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eville23x:
The knife is definitely not a khukri. The Nepalese
were nowhere near the Middle East. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could it be possible that it was brought over in trade or something at that point. I know that the midle east traded with the asian countries and so it seems highly resonable that it could have made it over in trade. Unless I have my time periods off, which may be.

Eville23x
11-21-2007, 06:57 PM
From my recollection the Nepalese had little to do with the outside world until the British thought they could march over them. So I kind of think it a bit unlikely. Especially in the context of the game. (By the way, the British had to sign a treaty to go around Nepal or suffer a righteous *** kicking. To this day the Nepalese serve in the British military.)

I'll try and find some good sword history.

unnamedninja
11-21-2007, 07:08 PM
Cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif i would like to find out also whether that sabre is an anachronism or not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I love details like this in games, i believe it's all part of the replay value.

Eville23x
11-21-2007, 09:12 PM
http://www.himalayan-imports.com/kopis-blades.jpg
A few odd shaped blades from history.

Krotos139
11-23-2007, 11:27 AM
im pretty sure that the short curved blade is just a long curved dagger. blades can be so versatile that not all of them need names. now for his longer weapon after his rank is taken away he gets a long sword and then another long sword but after his full rank is restored he gets a sabre

joefcos
11-23-2007, 05:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shotty78:
A scimitar is a long sword that is curved. They were used by Arabian calvary to slice victims while on horse back. Similar in style to Samuri swords made in Japan, however not nearly as strong.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just one thing I'd like to point out the those of you who might have some misconception about the "awesomeness" of Japanese katana versus the swords of other cultures throughout history. The katana, while an impressive weapon, is no more impressive than the weapons made by Persians, Spaniards, Italians, British, etc. Don't believe everything anime and Hollywood tell you about swords, reality is not the same as fiction.

Likely as not, Altair's final weapon was a shamshir made in or near Damascus. Around the time the game occurs, Damascus steel was becoming available as a material for swords and daggers to those who could afford it. For the time, the material was very advanced compared to the more pedestrian versions of steel used in the largely mass produced weapons of the Crusader armies.

Anyway, to really explain this would take several dozen pages, and I'm not getting paid for it, so why bother. As though you many of you aren't going to turn around and say "whatever, samurai swords could cut through gun barrels, and ninja were even deadlier!"

Ah, the damage done to the minds of today's youth by fiction...pick up some history books...non-fiction if you please!


Happy assassinating.

Out.

Krotos139
11-23-2007, 06:46 PM
perhaps it could be a shamshir but it still has the guard of a sabre... im not ruling out that it could be a shamshir but to me it seems too slender.

unnamedninja
11-23-2007, 07:13 PM
All you have to do is look at pictures of a sabre and pictures of a shamshir to see the difference. I'm no sword buff so you can scoff at wikipedia if you like, but the section for shamshir shows a much more curved blade with a crossguard, which is nothing like Altair's weapon. The sabre article though shows a weapon with the same curvature, same knuckle guard and same single stylized quillion.

Of course the shamshir is more historicially and geographically likely, but the game itself shows his weapon as a european sabre. I have no idea actually what types of weapons Richard's army brought with them during the crusades, i would hazard a guess that they were plain longswords and spears and maybe some greatswords. So i was wondering if someone could shed any light on the chances of the weapon being taken from a european cavalryman, or even the chances of a sabre existing in this time period.

I've looked around a bit, but found it difficult to pin down when and where sabres were "invented" and also tried and failed to find out what sort of weapons the crusaders would typically be carrying around with them.

JehovahSoldier
11-24-2007, 12:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eville23x:
From my recollection the Nepalese had little to do with the outside world until the British thought they could march over them. So I kind of think it a bit unlikely. Especially in the context of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh... I didn't know that. In that case, then I submit to being wrong about the kukri. =) I think then that it could just be a curved dagger that was an original design based off actual historical weapons. As has been said over and over... so yeah... I'm done...

Pr0metheus 1962
11-24-2007, 01:05 PM
I think the closest real blade is a Kukri.

Krotos139
11-24-2007, 03:20 PM
Kukri curve in the opposite direction im pretty sure its just a curved dagger

Eville23x
11-24-2007, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Krotos139:
Kukri curve in the opposite direction im pretty sure its just a curved dagger </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Quoted for truth. The Kukri was more boomerang shaped. (Not to throw, they never throw them.) As for the long bladed ones I have to go with the last one being some form of saber with the basket hilt. The earlier one looks like a crusader sword.

Krotos139
11-24-2007, 05:01 PM
i just found out that he always uses a sabre its just he uses a curved one in the end but here is my evidence http://www.arscives.com/vevans/images/4.9-Early-Sabre.jpg

Pr0metheus 1962
11-25-2007, 01:46 PM
The kukri looks like this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Khukri-knife.jpg)

Altair's long knife looks like this (http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/67136/Assassins-Creed/).

So it is indeed curved the opposite way to a kukri, although I think the size is about the same.

By the way the throwing knives aren't the short blade - they are separate from the short blade - you can see them on the shoulder of his cloak - they're very small.

Kimoze
11-27-2007, 12:49 AM
guys it like maddog111 and unnamedninja said the weapon on his back is called a khanjar, it's of arabic origin and has various shapes and sizes, it does not have fixed dimensions because the various tribes had differrent shapes and sizes for them, even within the tribes different families would also have differrent shapes and emblems and what not.
So to put you all at ease the weapon is a khanjar.
incidentaly people from oman and yemen still wear these as part of their national dress today, and if you look them up they even look weirder than most, because they're usually really short and have an almost right angle to them.

maddog111
11-27-2007, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">guys it like maddog111 and unnamedninja said the weapon on his back is called a khanjar, it's of arabic origin and has various shapes and sizes, it does not have fixed dimensions because the various tribes had differrent shapes and sizes for them, even within the tribes different families would also have differrent shapes and emblems and what not.
So to put you all at ease the weapon is a khanjar.
incidentaly people from oman and yemen still wear these as part of their national dress today, and if you look them up they even look weirder than most, because they're usually really short and have an almost right angle to them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Told You So Dudes

ScytheOfGrim
11-27-2007, 10:11 AM
Yes, I am willing to bet the small blade on his back is a khanjar.

Gosh, how khanjars have changed. xD
I remember playing with the one my Dad has... lol

It is so short, while the sheath is long (in comparison) and curved.

Krotos139
11-27-2007, 08:40 PM
I agree as well but im still pretty sure that his longer sword is a sabre