PDA

View Full Version : Which 109 for a new pilot?



Thaellar
08-19-2006, 09:33 PM
I have the IL2 complete edition and have flown a few quick missions. Boy, do I have a lot to learn. I like the sleek tigershark look of the BF-109s, but there seems to be a dizzying array of different ones.

I had the original IL-2, but didn't get to fly it much. Now I am ready to really give it a go, but I don't know which 109 is the best to learn in. Does it matter? What are the differences between them? Or is the 109 simply the wrong plane to begin with?

If it matters, I have a Saitek X-52 and just bought a Trackir 4.

regards,

Thaellar

Thaellar
08-19-2006, 09:33 PM
I have the IL2 complete edition and have flown a few quick missions. Boy, do I have a lot to learn. I like the sleek tigershark look of the BF-109s, but there seems to be a dizzying array of different ones.

I had the original IL-2, but didn't get to fly it much. Now I am ready to really give it a go, but I don't know which 109 is the best to learn in. Does it matter? What are the differences between them? Or is the 109 simply the wrong plane to begin with?

If it matters, I have a Saitek X-52 and just bought a Trackir 4.

regards,

Thaellar

Professor_1942
08-19-2006, 09:39 PM
I started with the 109... there might be better choices but it worked well for me.

The only really tricky thing at first is landing those buggers without breaking the gear :P

p1ngu666
08-19-2006, 09:40 PM
well its either a 109, a spit or a 190, ppl say its hard, but its not too bad really http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif p38 is very nice handling aswell..

maybe advance through the range from the start, u could skip the emils maybe.

basicaly they get bigger engines, devlop acholism and get bigger guns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Charos
08-19-2006, 11:13 PM
Best BF109 to learn on is the BF109F4.

#1 No MK108, you will learn aerial gunnery with a single 20mm.
#2 You can TnB but still get a grasp of Energy fighting.
#3 Much easier to fly than later versions for a
novice and better power and performance than a E4.
#4 much easier to take off in than G or K models.

If you really want to hone the gunnery side take a BF109F2. You get nearly the same performance that your used to by pracing on the F4 so not much else will change.

VW-IceFire
08-19-2006, 11:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thaellar:
I have the IL2 complete edition and have flown a few quick missions. Boy, do I have a lot to learn. I like the sleek tigershark look of the BF-109s, but there seems to be a dizzying array of different ones.

I had the original IL-2, but didn't get to fly it much. Now I am ready to really give it a go, but I don't know which 109 is the best to learn in. Does it matter? What are the differences between them? Or is the 109 simply the wrong plane to begin with?

If it matters, I have a Saitek X-52 and just bought a Trackir 4.

regards,

Thaellar </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would recommend the Bf109F-4 or Bf109G-2 as your starters. The have alot of power, decent enough firepower, they are similar enough to the late ones so that you can adapt to them...but they teach you some important skills in air combat as well.

In their years the two are virtually unmatched. Very capable aircraft against any foe of the same year. If you get shot down by an enemy aircraft...it'll be your fault. Which is good...because it'll teach you to be better!

Dew-Claw
08-20-2006, 12:49 AM
I always recomend the p-39 because of its touchy stall abilities.
Your forced to learn a soft touch from the start and never fall into the bad habits that follow with easier birds.

slipBall
08-20-2006, 01:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Boy, do I have a lot to learn. I like the sleek tigershark look of the BF-109s, but there seems to be a dizzying array of different ones </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would say start with the E4, learn it well, then progress to later variants, just as the real pilots did. By learning the E4 first, you are better able to judge later models, here is a good read for you
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/

cawimmer430
08-20-2006, 03:51 AM
I would recommend the F-2 and F-4 models. Light, maneuvrable, quick and decent firepower (the F-4, not the F-2). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BTW, a real good plane to learn to fly on is the A6M2 Zero. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

F19_Ob
08-20-2006, 06:03 AM
A few thoughts.


The 109 is one of the best choices to start learning because it has automated systems and is easier to handle than most early allied planes.
the most maneuverable 109 is the G2 wich also is the best turner.
Most early allied planes are quite demanding, for example the I-16.

Some of the later allied planes are closely matched to the 109 in speed and turn, especially late 43-45.
The goodies in the 109 is that the stall is gentle and most allied risks severe flips or spins if they pull hard in slow speeds.

The usual method among the online 109 experts is to outclimb the allied plane straight up after a hard pull, or in a spiral climb.
They wait for the moment where the chasing allied is at its lowest energy and then quickly turn down and make a pass on the opponent (and repeat if nessesary).
A few allied planes can do the same but but not as easily, and can't pull as quickly (hard) because of their dangerous stall and spin characteristics.

Many use the 109 purely as a turnfighter but forget that it can kill and get away unharmed by energy-fighting. Getting low on energy is riskful.

Usually 109's can deny for example hurricane, p40, I-16 and I-153 to fight, since they simply haven't speed or climb to match.
The 109 also can outturn the nimble I-16 when it's low on energy, since it easily stalls and spins, while the 109 start climbing steeply from stallspeed.
The 109 also can fly away from the above planes if things go wrong, wich the allied can't.

On the more difficult servers one can fly around all day in an I-153 or I-16 or Hurricane without catching anything, unless a 109 makes a mistake and gives away its energy.

The spitfire is a dangerous opponent because it's resonably fast can turn better in medium speed and has 2 cannons wich can damage from long range.
The 109 only has it rollrate and good climb and stallcharacteristics to counter with.
At high speed the spit can't roll so well and at stallspeed it can't climb as easily as the 109.
The only 109 that can give the spit a match one vs one is the G2. The E and F have less power to keep turning or climbing.
After 43 it's better to use the 109's with 30mm cannon and in a team or atleast a pair.
One hit of 30mm can end the fight or turn it in your favor.

Sometimes the 109 has been called and experts plane in the litterature because the 'experts' flew it.
So it didn't mean it harder to fly than other planes, atleast according to the pilots.
On the contrary most characteristics were better and automated compared to many allied planes.
The allied later fixed many of their faults and at midwar got planes that were in parity in many areas. Above all in speed, wich ment they now had enough time to hit an extending enemy.
This bought the allies time to reorganize and rebuild their forces and weaponry.

------------------------------------------


A small tip more than exploring the capabilities of your plane, is to learn the most likely opponents planes so u know their shortcomings

Record and watch tracks. your own and others.
Deflectionshooting practise is good.

Happy hunting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Xiolablu3
08-20-2006, 06:15 AM
109F4 (1941) or 109G2 (1942).

Both are excellent planes in their given year.

109F2 is a good plane but its 15mm cannon instead of the 20mm makes it less powerfull.

I find it hard to bring an Il2 down with ALL my ammo in a 109F2. Often it will fly on.

p-11.cAce
08-20-2006, 06:53 AM
I have an unhealthy love of the Emil so you may want to disregard this post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif This sim is for me basically a 109 sim. I rarely fly anything else (and I have flown almost daily for a long time) and am still having a blast in the 109 series. I recommend the same as the earlier poster - do it just like the rl pilots did. Start off in the Emil and fly the nuts off it. Run a bunch of qmb's against different early war a/c and get the basics down. Then move up to a "newer" model and run the qmb's against newer fighters until you are in the k's. The 109 is a great a/c with few vices.

Manu-6S
08-20-2006, 07:47 AM
I think the Emils: a good BnZ trainer and early allied planes are good targets to enter in confidence with the weapons.

If you want to fly Axis you HAVE to learn BnZ.

HotelBushranger
08-20-2006, 08:03 AM
Start from the start, 109E. That is a must if you are to learn anything mate.

Haigotron
08-20-2006, 08:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If it matters, I have a Saitek X-52 and just bought a Trackir 4. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's also a great start http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

i would personnaly recommend the E4 or F4 (not he E4/B nor F4/B - they were fighter bombers)

but the Gs are also popular online

RCAF_Irish_403
08-20-2006, 09:06 AM
Start in the E4, F2, or F4 variants...after that the 109 series gets silly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

HuninMunin
08-20-2006, 09:13 AM
First of all, welcome to this addiction. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

As for the 109s, if you wan't to become an expert, start with the Emils and enjoy the challange.
If you wanna go into a fight quickly take the G-2 up for a spin.
It will allow you to fight in any way you wan't and will teach you what suits you best that way.
If you fly the G-2 and you know your stuff, you'll be close to untouchable, even online.

LEBillfish
08-20-2006, 09:16 AM
Actually I would start with the G2. By far it is the most forgiving in the series to fly and will help compensate for lack of experience with its well balanced power, speed and agility. In that plane every shortcoming of the 109 seems to be softened, and every benefit accentuated so you'll get a hint at flaws without it killing you, yet clearly discover the best way to fly them from the hightened benefits.

From there I'd move on to the E4 which again is forgiving yet almost forces you to fly a 109 like a 109.......Then simply work your way up as you'll soon discover a very clear evolution from power and agility to simply raw power.

Fly with 50% fuel, default weapons, and since learning press the planes limits hard to discover both strengths and weaknesses.

In the end you'll probably end up with two favorites though.....For most, those that prefer an earned victory it will most likely be 2 from the E4-G6 (standard) series.....Those that want simply a zoom and boom flying cannon usually settle on the K4 (blech).

E4 & G2 for me please.

mortoma1958
08-20-2006, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charos:
Best BF109 to learn on is the BF109F4.

#1 No MK108, you will learn aerial gunnery with a single 20mm.
#2 You can TnB but still get a grasp of Energy fighting.
#3 Much easier to fly than later versions for a
novice and better power and performance than a E4.
#4 much easier to take off in than G or K models.

If you really want to hone the gunnery side take a BF109F2. You get nearly the same performance that your used to by pracing on the F4 so not much else will change. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I disagree with number #4!! It may be easier for you to take off in a F4 ( God only knows why ) but I feel the take off difficulty is about the same across the board for all planes in the sim. The hardest plane to take off in the game is the P-11C and the easiest ( I think ) is the P-38. But the P-11C is exceptional in it's take off difficulty, very strange compared to most planes. And certainly the take off difficulty is the same across the 109 line. I just took off in a K4-C3 and it was no harder than any of them. If anything, the Emil is slightly harder for take offs than the other 109s. But not any huge differences.

Thaellar
08-20-2006, 11:51 AM
Thank you for all the great suggestions. The F4 seems to be right for me to begin my journey. The 109myth link is a great read..thanks for that.

Hope to be online soon where you can all take turns shooting me down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

regards,

Thaellar

edit: removed word for grammar

AWL_Spinner
08-20-2006, 12:12 PM
Another thumbs up for the F4.

Probably my favourite aircraft in the sim and a good choice for starters! Nice, light and responsive, beautiful for aerobatics too I find http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif