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View Full Version : I have seen the light...finally



chilicheese
03-22-2005, 08:31 AM
...full cockpit is the only way to go. Of course, my circa 1996 Sidewinder, a lack of understanding or interest in "radio comms", and frantically searching the skies with a left-handed mouse makes things exhilarating if mostly unsuccessful, the difference online is unbelievable. All you ladies and gentlemen screwing around with the cockpit off, give it a try. Great stuff.

Just be prepared to take some abuse when in the Big Fella rooms when you are starting out. A shout out to JV44SaladBar and his vitriol. It is a game, chief.

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-22-2005, 09:00 AM
Welcome to the fold http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-22-2005, 10:06 AM
Had Oleg never included cockpit off, you would have seen the Light your first Flight. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --> something Oleg needs to think about for BoB

okay, Oleg can offer No Nockpit on the "free" BoB version http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Real Life WW2 Newbie combat pilots had a tough time too--the importance of being part of a Team http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif of Newbies and Old Timers flying together instead of going alone in internet Dogfight. At least we can fly again after our deaths, and learn from our mistakes.

VW-IceFire
03-22-2005, 10:09 AM
I get clausterphobic...oh well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-22-2005, 10:11 AM
Real Life pilots got clausterphobic ... except P~47 pilots, running around the cockpit, dodging bullets.

flyingscampi
03-22-2005, 10:26 AM
I started with cockpit on from day 1.

Not much fun being a n00b on a cockpit on server though - learning curve is a bit steep!

Anyway I've stuck with it and have saved time learning how to play the game twice over http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It's when you start getting the hang of deflection shooting a target as it appears from under your nose that you really start to get a thrill out of the game.

georgeo76
03-22-2005, 10:42 AM
you can turn the cockpit off?!

HAMUSH-CRO
03-22-2005, 11:12 AM
ive been flying with cockpit off for almost 3 years. thats when i switched and havent gone back to it ever again.
but, flying with the cockpit off has greatly improved my gunnery and i was therefore able to make decent kills in FW and other "stevie wonder" cockpit planes...

LEXX_Luthor
03-22-2005, 12:19 PM
76:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>you can turn the cockpit off?!

...why didn't oleg tell the world eh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was to be announced at the LAN Party Congress on Monday. You know how Oleg loves surprises.

p1ngu666
03-22-2005, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
76:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>you can turn the cockpit off?!

_...why didn't oleg tell the world _eh_?_ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was to be announced at the LAN Party Congress on Monday. You know how Oleg loves surprises. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

im like ice, i get clostraphobic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

also i fly coops or mission objectives, so externals gives u a chance (if theres a static cam) to see the target, just like real bomber pilots http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

also was thinkin of doing some FR coops, so low level strike, mossie style http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif, but with the challenge of navigation, and using things like turning points http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
all teh map icons off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
but then we will haveto use pen &paper to note down brief, which i dont like :\

NorrisMcWhirter
03-22-2005, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I get clausterphobic...oh well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure you didn't mean Closter(mann)phobic? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers,
Norris

Sultan_of_Swing
03-22-2005, 12:44 PM
A recent convert here. Track IR, while not a must, is highly recommmended http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bearcat99
03-22-2005, 02:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chilicheese:
...full cockpit is the only way to go. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


For YOU it is the only way to go.... remember that..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

TheGozr
03-22-2005, 02:53 PM
In RL plane cockpits hide a lot of the view and it was and is a big challenge in any aircraft.
For me it's simple Cockpit OFF do not exist anymore in my mind i just choosed to not see it.
\
Cockpit Off is fantastic for Movie makers.

ANyway, "Cockpit OFF".... that was the last time i used this sentence. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


---- ...---...---

Btw what this word mean ?... can't remember already....

Stiglr
03-22-2005, 03:14 PM
Hamish_CRO wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>flying with the cockpit off has greatly improved my gunnery <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess so, since with the arcadish WonderWoman view, you take the nose, the fuselage and the wings of your plane out of the visual equation.

WonderWoman view is one of, if not the worst arcade abominations ever to be toggled on in IL-2.

Airmail109
03-22-2005, 03:26 PM
Im a full switch pilot.....but if real pilots had a chance to use wonderwoman view in RL they would, so therefore as oleg has given us the chance to use Wonderwoman view, it is more realistic to use wonderwoman view! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

thefruitbat
03-22-2005, 05:27 PM
Hi all, i have had ill2 in all versions, but it has only been in the last 2 months that i have really started to play online (discovered HL, it never occurred to me that ubi, the company that made the game would not have the best online support for it?!?). Before that, i always used to play with cockpit off, no stalls etc... Once i started to play online, nearly all servers have cem stalls etc.. and so i started learning about each item one by one, i mean i have been playing this game on and off for 3ish years, and i only learnt to trim my plane 1 month ago, because the way i played single player, i had never needed to. I recently played on a server with "arcade" settings and disconnected after about 5mins, it felt like only playing half a game.

Anyway, the relevance of this posthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

yesterday after reading so many posts that people have written here i decided to give full real a proper try, although i bottled out of jumping in the deep end by using qmb, to get used to the new way of flying.

hard. that is a pretty good way of summing up how it felt. however it was extreamly rewarding, i really enjoyed my ai friends deaths and getting back and landinghttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

but i did feel helpless compared to normal. the biggest diff i noticed was when someone was on my six, my lack of ability to look behind me and see what they were doing because of the obvious cockpit blind area. I have no idea how u get used to flying like this, I mean, if somebody knows what they are doing it is hard enough to shift them, but without being able to see them? I have never used padlock before and had some ish succsess, but i stoped using it anyway, because i guess full real dosent include padlock. I have got a mff2 and use the hat for snapviews, but feel this does not give enough response, ie its all or nothing. Are there any utilites out there that people use for looking around short of track ir??

All in all i will be back, was vpleased today when i landed cockpit on, on a carrier today on my second attempt (f4uc), also found landing the h111 alot easier than b25 (not on the carriershttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, really bad views when landing i think, going to have a go at some of the twin engine fighters soon in eager atticipation of the mosquito!

someday soon, a fruitbat might be on your six http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
sonar is so cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

regards, fruitbat

ps, does anyone know why these forums will let me reply, but hardly ever start a new topic? i am logged in????

PBNA-Boosher
03-22-2005, 05:44 PM
I was claustraphobic at first, yeah, but now I'm totally used to it. It's so much fun. I advise using a plane with a rear view mirror at first, I still tend to and I love it. It helps a great deal.

There's no greater thrill than shredding a bandit to pieces when you know that he has no idea what hit him.

-HH-Quazi
03-22-2005, 05:47 PM
I can't seem to see all I need to see with my head on a set of shoulders and torso that can't lean, bend, or twist in any way, shape, or form to help me have a really good look for the enemy, or even follow an enemy fighter when I am on his six, or trying to stay on his six. So I find WWV an equalizer of sorts. I've tried TIR 3 Pro. Sadly, I am one of the minority that actually gets nausea, and dizziness in the eyes after about 15 minutes of using it. But, for those 15 or 20 miutes, I didn't even feel the need to use WWV. I wish I could have gotten used to it. But I couldn't deal with it.

Jasko76
03-22-2005, 05:47 PM
When I started playing Il-2 in 2001, my PC was seriously slow - PIII 600 MHz and Voodoo 4, framerates with cockpit on were terrible and the only way I could play was with cockpit off. It really took me a long time to re-learn the game with it switched on and I still play with it off whenever I can. Having said that I don't avoid servers with locked cockpits, I enjoy playing in both modes - although I get my a$$ handed to me more often on full switch servers.

knightflyte
03-22-2005, 06:20 PM
It never even occurred to me to try no cockpit.
The first time I sat in my 109 idling on the tarmac....(or grass runway....the IL2 started on the tarmac)... I WAS HOOKED.
I got into formation with my wingman and I heard giggling. It took me a second to realize it was me laughing. Looking over my wing and seeing the IL2s below me I dove on them....and crashed into one. LOL.

At any rate the immersion level afforded by cockpit view completely overshadowed any difficulties arising from cockpit view.

I remember thinking how DID the pilots in WWII taxi with out knowing what's ahead of them? Or...that dang IL2 snuck under my nose. Now which way did he slide?...LEFT or RIGHT? ping ping ping.....the BASTAGE is firing at me.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I LOVE THIS GAME. Now how do I avoid him firing at ....uh ohhhhh....SPLASH!!!!!!

regards,
Robert

LEXX_Luthor
03-22-2005, 08:59 PM
Many posts here about having to "relearn" the sim when moving to cockpit on.

As I am involved in education, we follow a core principle not to provide crutches that hurt the learning process. Ie...cockpit off prevents learning the skills needed in the sim.

Yes, all real life WW2 combat pilots historically wished they could turn off their cockpits, anybody would. But they could not. To sim with something not available to the real pilots prevents learning how to simulate their real actions.

Yes, you learn to move the plane and change directions to check behind you, or you depend on widely seperated wingmen to cover each others' blind spots (this assumes online Teamwork, a rash assumption).

Easy "Newbie" FM is often needed in flight sims, but only because flight sim Developers never think to offer historically relevant Flyable Trainers in their sims.

I have seen a "real life" commerical pilot say cockpit OFF is more realistic, but he/she also said flying the sim is a way of "getting away" from his/her full time job...the exact opposite of the 99.9% of flight simmer motivation to flight sim.

The claim that lack of head movement is too restrictive is True http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif, but never do we hear explained how head movement should let you see the entire universe outside the plane--cockpit off goes even farther in the opposite direction. This is desperate Deception.

Von_Rat
03-22-2005, 09:34 PM
i understand that the excuse for using cockpit off is restricted head movement.

i wonder what the reason will be when bob gives us head movement.

LEXX_Luthor
03-22-2005, 09:59 PM
mmm, hope I am not ****ging anybody (especially serial mods). I just think cockpit OFF is a dis~service to the Newbie flight simmer, yet we can get hostile about it as a game feature that some enjoy.

Its just that so many here post that once they finally went cockpit OFF, they never went back. Think of the "formative years" when first learning the sim, gradually getting better, enjoying the memories of two steps forward for each step back (not enjoying the experience itself, often frustrating), becoming more confident, looking back at Fond memories of your "early days" and remembering...cockpit OFF. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Its not needed to learn, that is all. And I think it may hurt learning the sim. Bad, BAD Oleg. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I remember my first months with the FB, and all the cockpits I had to learn and all the instrument guages that work and helped me to fly. (engine guages in I~153 in turbulent weather settings, showing how close I was coming to sputtering the engine). My early FB learning days are full of "cockpit moments" and its something not to be missed.

Badsight.
03-22-2005, 10:02 PM
no one was more Arcade than AFJ RedDeth

if he can make the switch , then anyone can

pretty soon the only person left will be RBJ , but he will get owned

LEXX_Luthor
03-22-2005, 10:18 PM
Badsight:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>RBJ , but he will get owned <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They have been saying that for years now.

Badsight.
03-22-2005, 10:23 PM
& the whole time he has been . . . .

han freak solo
03-22-2005, 11:24 PM
I started playing IL2 "cockpit off" due to the simple fact my rig couldn't handle the game with the cockpit on. It was a P3 450Mhz machine.

With this rig, cockpit off is actually harder if using TrackIr. I lose orientation of the plane when looking away from the gunsight. With the cockpit on, I always know where my nose is pointed since the cockpit lets me stay oriented.

BuzzU
03-22-2005, 11:33 PM
I can't imagine flying any other way accept in the cockpit.

SweetMonkeyLuv
03-23-2005, 08:03 AM
I'm lucky, I suppose. I got into flight simming sorta by accident about 2 - 2 1/2 years ago while playing World War II Online, which I initially got into for the infantry and tank play. My buddy, who is huge into flight simming, eventually convinced me to try out flying so he'd have someone to wing with. Where views are concerned, WW2OL is full real all the time. Cockpit is always on, no external views, no map icons for enemy planes, no targeting enemy planes, etc. The only thing you get is an identifying tag on enemy planes when they get within a certain range of you (500m or so) with the aircraft type. The flight model and engine management are full real in WW2OL, also, though a bit less full-featured (simple prop-pitch mgmt, no mixture control, no supercharger mgmt, etc).

Starting out in this environment, I flat out sucked. I flew 10-20 sorties a week. It was at least a week before I could reliably take-off, land, and fly/manuever capably (woulda been longer without instruction from my buddy). It was several weeks after that before I had anything close to what could be considered SA.

But, it was a great environment to learn in. Hopping into IL2 at full-real settings was a pretty easy transition. The only thing I really had to get a feel for was the difference in flight modelling and aircraft characteristics. I haven't even bothered to try out the external views much. Make me feel like I should be pumping quarters into my PC to play.

SweetMonkeyLuv
03-23-2005, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SweetMonkeyLuv:
I'm lucky, I suppose. I got into flight simming sorta by accident about 2 - 2 1/2 years ago while playing World War II Online, which I initially got into for the infantry and tank play. My buddy, who is huge into flight simming, eventually convinced me to try out flying so he'd have someone to wing with. Where views are concerned, WW2OL is full real all the time. Cockpit is always on, no external views, no map icons for enemy planes, no targeting enemy planes, etc. The only thing you get is an identifying tag on enemy planes when they get within a certain range of you (500m or so) with the aircraft type. The flight model and engine management are full real in WW2OL, also, though a bit less full-featured (simple prop-pitch mgmt, no mixture control, no supercharger mgmt, etc).

Starting out in that environment, I flat out sucked. I flew 10-20 sorties a week. It was at least a week before I could reliably take-off, land, and fly/manuever capably (woulda been longer without instruction from my buddy). It was several weeks after that before I had anything close to what could be considered SA.

But, it was a great environment to learn in. Hopping into IL2 at full-real settings was a pretty easy transition. The only thing I really had to get a feel for was the difference in flight modelling and aircraft characteristics. I haven't even bothered to try out the external views much. Make me feel like I should be pumping quarters into my PC to play. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bearcat99
03-23-2005, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
mmm, hope I am not ****ging anybody (especially serial mods). I just think cockpit OFF is a dis~service to the Newbie flight simmer, yet we can get hostile about it as a game feature that some enjoy.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont get me wrong... I like flying in the pit.... there is nothing more rewarding than having a bandit disapear under your nose as you are maneuvering for the shot and, calculating his last location you begin to pop out a few rounds and when he reappears from under your nose he is in flames... but some guys have to do this in stages. I started with cockpit off & icons, then no icons, then cockpit on w icons then in the pit and no icons.....