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View Full Version : OT-P-51 Nose Mounted .50s?



DoorGunner1788
09-28-2006, 06:36 PM
I'm currently reading a book called "Dumb But Lucky! Confessions Of A P-51 Fighter Pilot In World War II." This sentence has me confused. "To top it off, it would be the knew P-51D, with six guns instead of four, synchronized to fire through the spinning prop without shredding it..." I thought the D-model has 6 wing mounted .50s, and the B and C-model have 4 wing mounted .50s. Am I missing something? Does the author (Richard K. Curtis) have his facts straight, which I think he must know what he's talking about considering he flew the P-51. Can anybody give me any insight, or am I reading the passage completely wrong?

DoorGunner1788
09-28-2006, 06:36 PM
I'm currently reading a book called "Dumb But Lucky! Confessions Of A P-51 Fighter Pilot In World War II." This sentence has me confused. "To top it off, it would be the knew P-51D, with six guns instead of four, synchronized to fire through the spinning prop without shredding it..." I thought the D-model has 6 wing mounted .50s, and the B and C-model have 4 wing mounted .50s. Am I missing something? Does the author (Richard K. Curtis) have his facts straight, which I think he must know what he's talking about considering he flew the P-51. Can anybody give me any insight, or am I reading the passage completely wrong?

LStarosta
09-28-2006, 06:38 PM
They just had a really big propeller.

VW-IceFire
09-28-2006, 06:46 PM
The P-51A's had nose mounted guns. The B, C, and D's sure didn't.

I don't think the guns on the wings fire through the prop at all....

berg417448
09-28-2006, 06:47 PM
The A-36 Apache had 4 wing mounted guns and 2 nose guns.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/a36apache.html

3.JG51_BigBear
09-28-2006, 07:15 PM
It was published in 2005, that's a good sixty years since he last saw his P-51. Wouldn't be surprised if he was a little confused or made a few mistakes.

fighter_966
09-28-2006, 07:42 PM
He is talking about the first versoin of the Mustang . Guns were on the of the cowling under
the exhaust stack. Icant recall why they were removed ...jamming perhaps..

NekoReaperman
09-28-2006, 08:08 PM
i think the inboard guns may just be inside the propeller arc, remember the guns dont point straight ahead, but inward

LStarosta
09-28-2006, 08:14 PM
http://home.tiscali.be/bytrol.btl/What%20I%20did/Kleine...gel/P-51%20Front.jpg (http://home.tiscali.be/bytrol.btl/What%20I%20did/Kleine%20Brogel/P-51%20Front.jpg)

I don't think so, Neko.

And convergence ia usually greater than a hundred meters. If convergence was to cross the propeller arc, then your convergence would most likely be ridiculously close.

DoorGunner1788
09-28-2006, 08:36 PM
Yes, I know the guns are set to converge, therefore firing inward a little bit, but I didn't think the inboard guns, as you said, were that close to the propeller arc.

ElAurens
09-28-2006, 08:47 PM
The wing mounted weapons on a P51 of any model are no where near the prop arc. the author of the book is simply confusing it with the P51 A.

Gibbage1
09-28-2006, 10:06 PM
P-39 and the P-63 are the only USAAF fighters of WWII that fired guns through there prop. USN had a few, but the thing with the M2 is that a prop sync would cut the RPM by HALF!!! Putting them hebind a prop cut the firepower by half. P-47 abd P-51 had the guns on the wing outside of the prop.

A-36 I think had .30's behind the prop like early P-40's?

Klemm.co
09-28-2006, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
P-39 and the P-63 are the only USAAF fighters of WWII that fired guns through there prop. USN had a few, but the thing with the M2 is that a prop sync would cut the RPM by HALF!!! Putting them hebind a prop cut the firepower by half. P-47 abd P-51 had the guns on the wing outside of the prop.

A-36 I think had .30's behind the prop like early P-40's? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC the early P40's had 4 .30's in the wings and two fifties firing throug the prop arc, not the other way around...

ColoradoBBQ
09-28-2006, 11:06 PM
Richard Curits was a bit of a screw up who constantly fell asleep in ground school classes so it may contain some errors.

OD_79
09-29-2006, 02:02 AM
yeah they had 0.3 inch guns, not 0.5s. They fired through the prop.

OD.

Aaron_GT
09-29-2006, 02:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">P-39 and the P-63 are the only USAAF fighters of WWII that fired guns through there prop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Apart from the ones that did, this is true.

P-26 (used very early on). P-36, P-40s - 2 .50s through the prop arc. Ditto P-51A and A-36. I don't think any P-35s saw service in WW2.

Sergio_101
09-29-2006, 03:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
P-39 and the P-63 are the only USAAF fighters of WWII that fired guns through there prop. USN had a few, but the thing with the M2 is that a prop sync would cut the RPM by HALF!!! Putting them hebind a prop cut the firepower by half. P-47 abd P-51 had the guns on the wing outside of the prop.

A-36 I think had .30's behind the prop like early P-40's? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

USAAC/USAAF fighters with syncronised guns
firing through the prop.

P-26 (yes, we flew them in combat during the first week.)
P-35
P-36
P-39
P-40 through C model.
P-43
P-51, P-51A and A-36 (.50 cal)
P-63

No Merlin engined P-51 ever had a gun firing
through the prop.

I am not 100% sure but I believe that RR and
Packard never equipped the Merlin with the
interupter mechanism.

Sergio

Treetop64
09-29-2006, 04:05 AM
The A-36 was the ground attack version of the early, raised-back P-51s. It had four .50s in the wings, and another pair of .50s on the lower part of the engine cowling, firing through the propeller arc. A-36s were also fitted with dive brakes, but they were later mechanically disabled.

stansdds
09-29-2006, 05:16 AM
The Mustang I and A-36A Apache had two machine guns mounted in the lower part of nose, well beneath the exhaust stacks of the the engine. The P-51A/Mustang II and all subsequent Mustangs had only the wing mounted guns which were well outside of the propeller arc.

ElAurens
09-29-2006, 05:39 AM
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/a36apache-2.jpg

Col._King
09-29-2006, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:



I don't think any P-35s saw service in WW2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WRONG: American P-35s saw service in December 1941 in the Philippines, defending Clark Field. There were some P-36, too, and Philippines air Force few old P-26 !

One of the P-35 downed a Zero in flames.

Reference: Squadron Signal Mini In Action Serie: P-35.

Regards!

ElAurens
09-29-2006, 10:51 AM
http://avia.russian.ee/pictures/usa/seversky_2pa.jpg

The Seversky 2PA-B3, a two seat version of the P35 was used opertationally by the IJN in China from 1937. Called the Navy Type S 2 Seat Fighter (A8V1).

The Allies code named it "D I C K". (Um... stupid language filter...)

Aaron_GT
09-30-2006, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">WRONG: American P-35s saw service in December 1941 in the Philippines, defending Clark Field. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, that was why I wasn't cateogorical about it, as there was a chance it was used.

Sergio_101
09-30-2006, 03:21 AM
Yep, I was careful in mt selection.
Rule is that it had to have fired
a shot in combat.
So happens all of them got at least
one kill in combat.
All had to be in service with the USAAC/USAAF
on Dec 7, 1941 or later.

I do not remember any US operated P-26 scoring
a kill. The Phillipino pilots did score a few kills
with them.

The Itallians and Sweedish both had a copy
of the P-35 in service for the duration of WWII.

P-35 was a very good airplane but a bit
underpowered as a fighter.

Sergio

JG53Frankyboy
09-30-2006, 03:33 AM
Mustang Mk.I
4x.50 (two in nose)& 4x.30(or .303)

Mustang Mk.IA
4x20mm

P-51/F6A (not delivered Mustang Mk.IA)
4x.50

A-36
6x.50 (two in nose)

P-51A,B,C
4x.50

P-51D,K
6x.50