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View Full Version : F6F Hellcat Rear View Mirrors



MAILMAN------
04-08-2007, 11:22 AM
There is a rumor floating around HyperLobby and some of the servers that there is a 4.09 patch in the works. I don't know if it is true and I don't believe the rumors until I see an actual patch has been made available. I don't know how difficult it would be to include a mirror in the cockpit of the F6F-3 & F6F-5 Hellcat in a patch, but it would be historically correct. Although the mirror is not a fix all for that six o'clock bounce, the attentive pilot with the mirror aiding his "head on a swivel" searching may save his bacon by catching the bandit dropping into the view of the mirror or passing through it for a low six attack. I offer proof of the mirror's existence with references to photographs of the actual aircraft below as well as the item that sparked my interest to research this data. And yes I plan on sending a copy of this post to Luthier & Saqson & PF@1C.ru in case something can be done should a new patch come out.

I have lived with the fact that there is no mirror for looking to the rear in the game.
I was watching the movie "Flying Leathernecks" in which the Marine squadron was trying to implement close air support for its ground Marine units. Instead of using Wildcats at Guadalcanal the movie substituted Hellcats and called them Wildcats. The average movie watcher would not know the difference and could care less anyway.

The interesting part of the movie, which I have seen several times, but failed to notice this particular detail, was when cockpits interior were shown. Each Hellcat had a mirror for looking to the rear, inside and at the top of the wind screen section of the canopy in the same location as is found on the F4F Wildcat.

I decided to see if there were pictures of this mirror in WWII Hellcats that were in the actual combat theater. In one book, that I own, alone "Hellcat Aces of World War 2" by Barrett Tillman there are examples of not only the US Hellcat version with the internal mirror, but also RN versions of the Hellcat in which some had external mirrors installed like those found on the British Spitfire.

Below are the specific pages in the Barrett Tillman book where the photographs showing mirrors can be seen (some are more clear than others):

pg: 2 & 3 Hellcat being catapulted
pg: 18 not easy to see on F6F-3
pg: 21 top
Pg: 24 bottom, not easy to sea
Pg: 25 top, barely visible
Pg: 26 Middle
Pg: 30 top & bottom
Pg: 47 bottom, aircraft #2 barely visible
Pg: 48 top
Pg: 49 top
Pg: 51 bottom
Pg: 52 bottom
Pg: 56 top, Cdr. McCambell's Minsi III F6F-5
Pg: 60 bottom
Pg: 69 bottom
Pg: 71 top
Pg: 77 British Hellcat with external mirror
Pg: 79 top
Pg: 81 bottom
Pg: 82 Best Picture of the mirror

MAILMAN------
04-08-2007, 11:22 AM
There is a rumor floating around HyperLobby and some of the servers that there is a 4.09 patch in the works. I don't know if it is true and I don't believe the rumors until I see an actual patch has been made available. I don't know how difficult it would be to include a mirror in the cockpit of the F6F-3 & F6F-5 Hellcat in a patch, but it would be historically correct. Although the mirror is not a fix all for that six o'clock bounce, the attentive pilot with the mirror aiding his "head on a swivel" searching may save his bacon by catching the bandit dropping into the view of the mirror or passing through it for a low six attack. I offer proof of the mirror's existence with references to photographs of the actual aircraft below as well as the item that sparked my interest to research this data. And yes I plan on sending a copy of this post to Luthier & Saqson & PF@1C.ru in case something can be done should a new patch come out.

I have lived with the fact that there is no mirror for looking to the rear in the game.
I was watching the movie "Flying Leathernecks" in which the Marine squadron was trying to implement close air support for its ground Marine units. Instead of using Wildcats at Guadalcanal the movie substituted Hellcats and called them Wildcats. The average movie watcher would not know the difference and could care less anyway.

The interesting part of the movie, which I have seen several times, but failed to notice this particular detail, was when cockpits interior were shown. Each Hellcat had a mirror for looking to the rear, inside and at the top of the wind screen section of the canopy in the same location as is found on the F4F Wildcat.

I decided to see if there were pictures of this mirror in WWII Hellcats that were in the actual combat theater. In one book, that I own, alone "Hellcat Aces of World War 2" by Barrett Tillman there are examples of not only the US Hellcat version with the internal mirror, but also RN versions of the Hellcat in which some had external mirrors installed like those found on the British Spitfire.

Below are the specific pages in the Barrett Tillman book where the photographs showing mirrors can be seen (some are more clear than others):

pg: 2 & 3 Hellcat being catapulted
pg: 18 not easy to see on F6F-3
pg: 21 top
Pg: 24 bottom, not easy to sea
Pg: 25 top, barely visible
Pg: 26 Middle
Pg: 30 top & bottom
Pg: 47 bottom, aircraft #2 barely visible
Pg: 48 top
Pg: 49 top
Pg: 51 bottom
Pg: 52 bottom
Pg: 56 top, Cdr. McCambell's Minsi III F6F-5
Pg: 60 bottom
Pg: 69 bottom
Pg: 71 top
Pg: 77 British Hellcat with external mirror
Pg: 79 top
Pg: 81 bottom
Pg: 82 Best Picture of the mirror

R_Target
04-08-2007, 12:26 PM
Correct. Mirror was standard. I can't see this getting fixed though.

MAILMAN------
04-08-2007, 04:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
Correct. Mirror was standard. I can't see this getting fixed though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can wish can't I?

I mean there is Santa Clause & the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

Seriously, I don't know why this would be a tough fix since planes that currently have mirrors can opt to have the mirror show and not show.

Another easy fix for the game would be to add the F4U-1 into the game. Two choices to fix this:

1) Rename the Corsair I the F4U-1 since the Corsair I never flew combat because it could not be stowed on hangar decks of RN Carriers, its wings were too long.

2) Create a F4U-1 plane by taking the aircraft data from the Corsair I and make its default skin depicting the USMC of VMF-124 @ Guadalcanal in February 1943 or VMF-213 @ Gudalcanal in July 1943. Zargos who has skins of his for the Corsair I included in the retail version of this game also has a F4U-1 skin for VMF-213, which can be found on his website.

If you use the default RN skin or any USMC or USN third party skin and select USMC or USN (USAAF for that matter) you get an Americanised (white star) version of a field modified VVS (red star) insignia that was painted on lend lease P-39's that arrived in Russia. As it is now you HAVE to use IL2 Mat Manager to get the correct type of insignia.

stansdds
04-08-2007, 08:08 PM
Mailman, you're a real dreamer!

hi_stik
04-09-2007, 10:23 AM
I totally beat up the tooth fairy last year and took all her money. So she's off the list.

FritzGryphon
04-11-2007, 05:55 AM
Adding a mirror to the plane would be an easy fix.

Just like the other 10,000 equally important easy fixes.

I'm sure these can easily be implimented by the people still working on IL-2 (0).

VVS-Manuc
04-11-2007, 06:50 AM
objects in the mirror are closer than they appear http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
04-11-2007, 09:30 AM
when a enemy fighter is close enough to appear in a mirror then it about time to bail out..

"Gunther Rall"

R_Target
04-11-2007, 05:29 PM
Gene Valencia's experience with the F6F's mirror, from Tillman's Hellcat book:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...Valencia's eyes spotted something in his rear view mirror and he called out a bogey at six o'clock high. In a hard climbing
turn, he left Harris Mitchell behind momentarily and pressed a head-on attack on a Tojo. Still out of effective gun range, Gene fired four of his rockets, all of which fell short. Mitchell, back in position, did likewise. Then Valencia disappeared from view to starboard. Mitchell turned up his gunsight rheostat and continued head-on at the Tojo. His first tracers hit the
bandit's cowling, the engine caught fire, and as Mitch pulled up he saw the enemy pilot bail out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>