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View Full Version : Worship the widebody Raiden



Feathered_IV
04-11-2005, 04:45 AM
This guy does...


http://server2.uploadit.org/files/Feathered-Widebody.jpg


The interceptor for guys with balls.

JG53Frankyboy
04-11-2005, 04:49 AM
http://www.ijnafpics.com/jbwj2m1.htm

Feathered_IV
04-11-2005, 05:26 AM
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/cl-pln3/images4/FR051.jpg

Feathered_IV
04-11-2005, 05:27 AM
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/cl-pln3/images4/FR051-1.jpg

Pfwoar!!!


http://www.cgnetworks.com/gallerycrits/125033/125033_1111593799.jpg

Feathered_IV
04-11-2005, 05:43 AM
Right-click and save as (3.82mb).

http://www.angel.ne.jp/~tochy/airplane/dws/wings01.mpg


http://www2.odn.ne.jp/~cfv34110/gallery_01/img2/raiden21_01.jpg

Badsight.
04-11-2005, 05:49 AM
ahhh , another person that follows the CGI website i see

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/clippa-raiden2.jpg

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/clippa-Raiden_cgi.jpg

SkyChimp
04-11-2005, 06:02 PM
Now THAT was an interceptor. That thing climbed like a rocket - according to the TAIC manual it had an initial climb rate of 4,600 fpm. Most published sources show a top speed of around 380-390 mph (probably at Military Power), but TAIC suggests a top speed of 407mph at Combat Power. And while as of December 1944 TAIC stated there was no known armor, anecdotal evidence suggested it was well protected. Reliability was an issue, but was with a lot of Japanese planes - which was understandable given the conditions. Nevertheless, it was well regarded by the Japanese that flew it, and US bomber and fighter pilots that faced it.

On top of that, it looks like it's itching for a fight. And that radial cowling, that beautiful cowling... That's the way to do it!

LStarosta
04-11-2005, 06:18 PM
I assume you packed your bags already?

LeadSpitter_
04-11-2005, 08:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/Jack.jpg

Feathered_IV
04-12-2005, 02:52 AM
What I look forward to one day is a Thunderbolt Vs Thunderbolt server. P-47's against J2M's. then we'd see who really deserves the name. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

LeadSpitter_
04-12-2005, 10:24 AM
I thought raiden is god of lightning, not thunderbolt

Levon1981
04-16-2005, 01:13 PM
Honestly I'd love to see the J2M5 inthe game.
This was the best Raiden that reached serial production. Some J2M5s were equiped with apair of wing powerfull 30 mm type cannons ( projectile weight: 345-349 g, muzzle velocity: 700-710 m/s, rate of fire: 450 r/m, gun weight: 70 kg) that were installed instead of the type 99M2s.
This made this modified J2M5 a deadly bomber killer. Only Hasaegawa Model Kits firm produces this plane (with 30 mm guns).
Talking about the speed, I read that J2M5 could reach 700 km/h on an altitude of 900 m.
I think , it would be wonderful to see this plane (wersion with the 30 mm guns) in the game.

Jumoschwanz
04-16-2005, 01:57 PM
The GT500 was a model sold as a "Shelby" they did not call it a "Mustang". It was the Shelby GT500, which came standard with the 428cid engine, or the GT350, which had the 289, or later the 302. Carroll Shelby's company, Shelby North American took Ford Mustangs and AC Bristol sports cars and modified them into the GT series and the Cobras. S!

Jumoschwanz

bolillo_loco
04-17-2005, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Levon1981:
Honestly I'd love to see the J2M5 inthe game.
This was the best Raiden that reached serial production. Some J2M5s were equiped with apair of wing powerfull 30 mm type cannons ( projectile weight: 345-349 g, muzzle velocity: 700-710 m/s, rate of fire: 450 r/m, gun weight: 70 kg) that were installed instead of the type 99M2s.
This made this modified J2M5 a deadly bomber killer. Only Hasaegawa Model Kits firm produces this plane (with 30 mm guns).
Talking about the speed, I read that J2M5 could reach 700 km/h on an altitude of 900 m.
I think , it would be wonderful to see this plane (wersion with the 30 mm guns) in the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

can you provide any proof that the japanese ever produced a 30mm armed single engine fighter? I do not want ulrs for web sites because they are very unreliable. I would like to see it in print ie some book that was published.

Tony williams wrote "flying guns of ww2" and in it he states that the japanese experimented with 30mm armed fighters, but there is no evidence to suggest that any went into production.

it doesnt matter though, any design as long as it isnt american or english may have any amrament that was ever talked about or put on paper in our game.

leadspitter, the rates of climb tell the usual tale, the japanese failed to produce a good second generation engine that was either reliable or could make power at altitude. The performace looks spot on....good climb up to 6,000 meters.......but from 6,000 to 10,000 meters the climb falls way off...according to that chart taking an another 12-14 minutes to climb from 6,000 - 10,000 meters.

chimp.......I too have the taic manual and just to make sure that nobody misunderstands what you have wrote.......the 407 mph figure for the J2M is purely calculated and speculation. The story is no different than the 430 mph figures that were posted here in this forum straight from the taic manual. the only problem is that the person that posted them either blocked off the "notes part of the page" or their copy didnt have any notes in the colum. My taic manual did and it stated that for the Ki-84 the 430mph figures were pure speculation and calculated data.

bolillo_loco
04-17-2005, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bolillo_loco:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Levon1981:
Honestly I'd love to see the J2M5 inthe game.
This was the best Raiden that reached serial production. Some J2M5s were equiped with apair of wing powerfull 30 mm type cannons ( projectile weight: 345-349 g, muzzle velocity: 700-710 m/s, rate of fire: 450 r/m, gun weight: 70 kg) that were installed instead of the type 99M2s.
This made this modified J2M5 a deadly bomber killer. Only Hasaegawa Model Kits firm produces this plane (with 30 mm guns).
Talking about the speed, I read that J2M5 could reach 700 km/h on an altitude of 900 m.
I think , it would be wonderful to see this plane (wersion with the 30 mm guns) in the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

can you provide any proof that the japanese ever produced a 30mm armed single engine fighter? I do not want ulrs for web sites because they are very unreliable. I would like to see it in print ie some book that was published.

Tony williams wrote "flying guns of ww2" and in it he states that the japanese experimented with 30mm armed fighters, but there is no evidence to suggest that any went into production.

it doesnt matter though, any design as long as it isnt american or english may have any amrament that was ever talked about or put on paper in our game.

leadspitter, the rates of climb tell the usual tale, the japanese failed to produce a good second generation engine that was either reliable or could make power at altitude. The performace looks spot on....good climb up to 6,000 meters.......but from 6,000 to 10,000 meters the climb falls way off...according to that chart taking an another 12-14 minutes to climb from 6,000 - 10,000 meters.

chimp.......I too have the taic manual and just to make sure that nobody misunderstands what you have wrote.......the 407 mph figure for the J2M is purely calculated and speculation. The story is no different than the 430 mph figures that were posted here in this forum straight from the taic manual for the ki 84. the only problem is that the person that posted the taic page either blocked off the "notes" part of the page or their copy didnt have any notes in the colum. My taic manual did have the notes and it stated that the data for the Ki-84 which gave the 430mph figure are pure speculation and calculated data. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

RedDeth
04-17-2005, 01:49 PM
that thing had no armor and its climb rate over 6000 meters was horrible. sounds like a 50Cal. magnet.

fun plane down low against an underpowered early year american plane but it would light up like a roman candle if hit.

Endrju
04-17-2005, 02:43 PM
Nice plane but I wonder why Raiden is going to be flyable and not Shiden. Raiden was never reliable fighter and produced in much less amount than Shiden, also saw less action.
I think introducing cockpit to Shiden would be a better idea than to Raiden and than creating completely new Ki-100

SkyChimp
04-17-2005, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bolillo_loco:
chimp.......I too have the taic manual and just to make sure that nobody misunderstands what you have wrote.......the 407 mph figure for the J2M is purely calculated and speculation. The story is no different than the 430 mph figures that were posted here in this forum straight from the taic manual. the only problem is that the person that posted them either blocked off the "notes part of the page" or their copy didnt have any notes in the colum. My taic manual did and it stated that for the Ki-84 the 430mph figures were pure speculation and calculated data.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I said, the TAIC manual "suggests a top speed..." The TAIC manual's introduction states, that unless otherwise noted, aircraft performance is calculated.

I checked my TAIC manual, a copy of the an original, not a third party reprint, and there are no original notes for the KI-84 that state the Frank's performance numbers were "pure speculation and calculated data." There are none that state the numbers are from performance testing, either. So they are probably calculated. But none of the original pages state that.

However, the Ki-84 depicted in the photo, C/N 1446, on page 156A-4 IS the plane captured at Clark Field and tested by TAIC (it bacame S-17). Clark was retaken in January 1945 and the Ki-84 data in TAIC is dated March 1945 issue date). Since it was important to get information on enemy fighters into the field as fast as possible, it cannot be totally ruled out that the plane was tested and that some of the TAIC data comes from testing. Odds are agaisnt it, but not completely.

If you have a third party reprint of the TAIC manual, particularly the "Planes of Fame" reprint, beware that whoever put that together mixed and matched data from several sources. It is not a faithful copy of the original.

About the 30mm. TAIC's armament section states that none had been captured, but it was known it was in production and ammunition had been captured in the field. Francillon's "Japanese Aircrat of the Pacific War" lists the Ki-84Ic as the version of the Frank that flew with it. It doesn'
t state how many Ics were produced, but over 3,000 of the I variant was produced, so who knows how many were Ics.

Here is a Japanese source on the Ic. If you can translate it, lets us know what it says. I find it difficult it believe it would be listed if at least a few weren't produced:

http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/ki84ic.jpg

bolillo_loco
04-17-2005, 08:38 PM
hey chimp, I looked in the taic book again and it is a colum called general data, mine is not blank, but I have seen some posted and wonder if the person posting has a different printing of the book or if the person posting it purposely deleted the info. I will copy it tomorrow at my seesdoors house and put it in another thread about the Ki-84 if you would like to see it.

more on 30 mm armed japanese a/c. I can find no reference in any book I have (and I dont have them all so if you have a reference let me know because I would like the book for myself) that states the J2M had 30 mm armament, not even a reference that states it was experimental.

more on the Ki-84c.....like I said tony william wrote "flying guns of ww 2" recently and claims to have done extensive research on the topic. He clearly states that there is no evidence to suggest that the japanese produced any 30 mm armed single engined a/c beyond the proto type state.

japanese aircraft of the pacific war by rene j francillon isbn 0-870210313x

page 233

"a few model 1c aircraft specialized bomber destroyers armed with two scynchronized 20mm ho-5 cannon and two wing mounted 30mm ho-105 cannon, were also built."

to me this just furthers tony william statement. a few.......experimental never reaching production. I believe the "a few" numbers provided were 2-3. had they actually went into production there odds are there would have been one or two found. yet after the war no japanese single engined fighters armed with 30mm seemed to have made it into any book almost like none were ever found because none were ever produced. I mean somebody even managed to find the canard J7W of which 3 were suppose to be made. so I ask wouldnt you think if even 30 or 100 Jm2 or Ki 84s were made armed with 30mm guns dont you think some would have been discovered somewhere? I do if they had actually been production planes. even bombed planes on the ground leave telling remains about what type of armament they carried and at the end of the war a lot of japanese a/c were caught on the ground and destroyed.

bolillo_loco
04-17-2005, 08:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bolillo_loco:
hey chimp, I looked in the taic book again and it is a colum called general data, mine is not blank, but I have seen some posted and wonder if the person posting has a different printing of the book or if the person posting it purposely deleted the info. I will copy it tomorrow at my seesdoors house and put it in another thread about the Ki-84 if you would like to see it.

more on 30 mm armed japanese a/c. I can find no reference in any book I have (and I dont have them all so if you have a reference let me know because I would like the book for myself) that states the J2M had 30 mm armament, not even a reference that states it was experimental.

more on the Ki-84c.....like I said tony william wrote "flying guns of ww 2" recently, and claims to have done extensive research on the topic. He clearly states that there is no evidence to suggest that the japanese produced any 30 mm armed single engined a/c beyond the prototype stage.

japanese aircraft of the pacific war by rene j francillon isbn 0-870210313x

page 233

"a few model 1c aircraft specialized bomber destroyers armed with two scynchronized 20mm ho-5 cannon and two wing mounted 30mm ho-105 cannon, were also built."

to me this just furthers tony william statement. a few.......experimental never reaching production. I believe the cAtch phraze "a few" states it all. tony williams I believe states that there were 2-3 1cs. had they actually went into production theodds are that there would have been one or two found after the hostilities ceased. yet after the war no japanese single engined fighters armed with 30mm seemed to have made it into any book, almost like none were ever found because none were ever produced. I mean somebody even managed to find the canard J7W of which only 3 were made. so I ask wouldnt you think if even 30 or 100 Jm2 or Ki 84s were made and armed with 30mm guns dont you think some would have been discovered somewhere? I do if they had actually been production planes. even bombed planes on the ground leave telling remains about what type of armament they carried and at the end of the war a lot of japanese a/c were caught on the ground and destroyed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SkyChimp
04-17-2005, 09:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bolillo_loco:
hey chimp, I looked in the taic book again and it is a colum called general data, mine is not blank, but I have seen some posted and wonder if the person posting has a different printing of the book or if the person posting it purposely deleted the info. I will copy it tomorrow at my seesdoors house and put it in another thread about the Ki-84 if you would like to see it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sounds good. I'm interested to see the date. Is it earlier than March 1945? If so, it may have been deleted by TAIC. If it's later, it may have been added.

ColoradoBBQ
04-17-2005, 10:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Endrju:
Nice plane but I wonder why Raiden is going to be flyable and not Shiden. Raiden was never reliable fighter and produced in much less amount than Shiden, also saw less action.
I think introducing cockpit to Shiden would be a better idea than to Raiden and than creating completely new Ki-100 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could be that there was lack of documentation for the Shiden or no one modelled it or didn't get finished in time. Look at the KI-43 family, most are modelled but only three are flyable. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Badsight.
04-17-2005, 11:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bolillo_loco:
I mean somebody even managed to find the canard J7W of which 3 were suppose to be made. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>only one ever was finished , they had another waiting for the engine to be installed & another airframe "in production"

but only 1 was ever made/finished

Badsight.
04-17-2005, 11:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
that thing had no armor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>might want to check that

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Endrju:
Nice plane but I wonder why Raiden is going to be flyable and not Shiden. Raiden was never reliable fighter and produced in much less amount than Shiden, also saw less action. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>because the Shiden is a POS while the Raiden is just too cool

Hristos
04-17-2005, 11:46 PM
Someone actually compares Raiden to this ?

http://free-kc.t-com.hr/nino/jug.jpg
http://www.planestuff.com/lib/planestuff/p47.gif

bolillo_loco
04-18-2005, 12:33 AM
ok chimp I will try and swing by my seesdoors house tomorrow and copy the page and post it in a new thread........like hey chimp

Levon1981
04-23-2005, 01:03 PM
(Corrected version)


Honestly I'd love to see the J2M5 inthe game.
This was the best Raiden that reached serial production. Some J2M5s were equiped with apair of wing powerfull 30 mm type 5 cannons ( projectile weight: 345-349 g, muzzle velocity: 700-710 m/s, rate of fire: 450 r/m, gun weight: 70 kg) that were installed instead of the type 99M2s.
This made this modified J2M5 a deadly bomber killer. Only Hasaegawa Model Kits firm produces this plane (with 30 mm type 5 guns).
Talking about the speed, I read that J2M5 could reach 700 km/h on an altitude of 9000 m.
I think , it would be wonderful to see this plane (wersion with the 30 mm guns) in the game.
Some people doubt about existance of any Japanese aircraft with 30 mm cannons.
First of all, Japan experimented with three 30 mm guns but produced (in small numbers) only two: the army Ho-155 (also known as Ho-105), mainly used on Ki-84-Ic(from early 1945) and the late version of the well known Ki-61-I Tei (known as Ki-61-I Kai D in English transcription, produced in very small numbers beginning from December 1944), and the navy type 5, wich was produced in very small numbers, mainly on some J2M5s. As I said Hasegawa produces J2M5s 1/48 scale model kit with type 5 30 mm guns. Those who have this model know this.
The army Ho-155 was not officially adopted like the USSR NS-45 but like the same NS-45, it was serially produced in very small numbers, and installed on very fiew aircraft but undoubtably it was used in a real comat beginning from early 1945.
The navy type 5 was produced even in smaller numbers, I'm not shure wether it saw an actual combat or not but without any doubt it was tested, mainly on the J2M5.