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Erretje_1.JaVA
05-24-2005, 10:39 AM
Hi,
I Landed in a field just now to resque a teammate in CzechWar, I switched off the engine to save Feul, But when I tried to start it again I got the message ENGINE OFF, I tried it many times but everytime the same message, so I couldnāĀ“t start and we where stranded in the same field on the wrong side of the frontline.

Does anyone recognize this??? and does anyone have a solution for this?

Cheers R

Erretje_1.JaVA
05-24-2005, 10:39 AM
Hi,
I Landed in a field just now to resque a teammate in CzechWar, I switched off the engine to save Feul, But when I tried to start it again I got the message ENGINE OFF, I tried it many times but everytime the same message, so I couldnāĀ“t start and we where stranded in the same field on the wrong side of the frontline.

Does anyone recognize this??? and does anyone have a solution for this?

Cheers R

Troll2k
05-24-2005, 11:14 AM
Some planes like the I-16 and the I-153 needed a starter truck.

In this game only the premade landing fields have this simulated capability.If you land in a field there is no starter truck.

JG54_Arnie
05-24-2005, 12:06 PM
You sure? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I got this in the air sometimes, then pressing the start button two times fast would actually kill the engine for real and the next start would fire it up..

SKULLS_Exec01
05-24-2005, 01:14 PM
Yep, I've had this also in the air... recently while DFing I pulled out around 3,000' and hit the wrong button and killed the engine on my corsair. I glided for what seemed forever while I kept hitting the start button, it would seem to try but not fully kick over. then finally with a few hundred feet left it started and I was able to fly home.
But I'm not sure why it would not restart for the first 20 or so tries, maybe speed, temp or some other reason...
But it did add to the thrill of it!!!
(please post back here if you find out why)
And that truck thing sounds interesting on planes requiring them, hope its true..

Tex-Hill-AVG
05-24-2005, 01:51 PM
Here may be the reason why the Corsair didn't start right away:
The Chance-Vought F4U Corsair was one of the most successful fighters of WWII. It was in production longer than any other US fighter in World War II (1942-1952) with 12,571 built, some of which remained in service as late as 1965.The F4U-4 is a version 2.01 addition to War birds. This Corsair saw service in the final stages of the Pacific War. The F4U-4 Corsair used the Pratt & Whitney R2800-18W, later upgraded to the R2800-42W. This engine required more air, creating the need to re-design the nose with the distinctive chin intake. The exhaust system was also re-designed with exhaust outlets both above and below the wings. The other major change was a complete re-design of the cockpit, making it more ergonomic. This included a new cockpit floor, new consoles, re-designed instrument panel, and a simplified seat which consisted of a bucket-type base and a flat armored plate for a back rest. The F4U-4 first saw combat at the battle for Okinawa in 1945. The F4u-4 also participated in combat in Korea. It was the fastest, best dogfighter of the series. The Corsair was definitely the longest-lived of the Navy fighters of WWII, its last combat sortie being in 1971 with El Salvador, and the F4U-4 was considered the ultimate Corsair.

The P&W engine needs large amounts of air. I know you can't consider this definitive, (since Hollywood takes lots of liberties), but I've always been a big fan of Black Sheep Squadron with Robert Conrad. I don't recall ever seeing a truck used to jump them off.

AerialTarget
05-24-2005, 01:54 PM
The F-4U Corsair and F-6F Hellcat, at least some models, used a starter cartridge to start them on the ground. Spares were often brought along. I don't know if the game lets you restart in the field. However, all aircraft should be able to restart while they are in the air, because the air is rotating the propeller.

Tex-Hill-AVG
05-24-2005, 02:06 PM
Here is a great web page on the Corsair:
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html

Tex-Hill-AVG
05-24-2005, 02:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AerialTarget:
The F-4U Corsair and F-6F Hellcat, at least some models, used a starter cartridge to start them on the ground. Spares were often brought along. I don't know if the game lets you restart in the field. However, all aircraft should be able to restart while they are in the air, because the air is rotating the propeller. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Kinda like when I used to have to push start my old '66 mustang when I was in college

RAF74_Poker
05-24-2005, 02:58 PM
What was throttle position ... planes like Gladiator when they cut out should be set @ 15% throttle before restarting.

han freak solo
05-24-2005, 07:05 PM
Once in a mission in a P-40B/C my plane took head on hits from a Ki-43. That killed the engine but there was no smoke.

With plenty of altitude and the engine failing to start I got ready for a landing in the pretty countryside. Then after a 1 or 2 minute wait I tried the starter again........BEHOLD the engine did start!! I've never seen that happen again.

irR4tiOn4L
05-24-2005, 08:08 PM
can i just ask what 'czechwar' is? It sounds intriguing if you have to rescue teammates and all!

Bluedog72
05-24-2005, 10:55 PM
I allways figured that the reason the engine sometimes refuses to start again if you switch off in mid-air is because it becomes flooded with fuel.
When you hit the 'engine on/off' key, you remove the electrical current to the spark plugs, but the engine is still turning over, the valves are still opening and shutting, and the injectors are still putting fuel into the cylinders, especially if you shut down at high revs and have the throttle 90% open.

Now before that engine can fire again, it has to blow all the unburnt fuel out of the cylinders, so you need to chop throttle to zero and keep turning the engine over a bit more.
After a few seconds of that, give the throttle a push up to about 10 or 15% and fire her up.

Taking into account the fact that these engines model things like fuel/air mixture, throttle position/airflow, blower speed/manifold pressure, engine oil temp/pressure etc and the fact that we have two working magnetos makes me suspect that the simulation of an internal combustion engine is reasonably thorough, and that virtual flooding is entirely possible.

Seems to work for me anyway.

AerialTarget
05-24-2005, 11:36 PM
That's very good thinking! I will keep that in mind next time I accidentally turn off my engine in the air.

Erretje_1.JaVA
05-25-2005, 02:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">can i just ask what 'czechwar' is? It sounds intriguing if you have to rescue teammates and all! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ItāĀ“s an awfully nice online campaign, Look at:

http://czechwar.vwings.org/

bolillo_loco
05-26-2005, 04:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AerialTarget:
The F-4U Corsair and F-6F Hellcat, at least some models, used a starter cartridge to start them on the ground. Spares were often brought along. I don't know if the game lets you restart in the field. However, all aircraft should be able to restart while they are in the air, because the air is rotating the propeller. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

exactly! I have often wondered why it is so difficult to restart the engine (after turning it off) of an a/c in flight. pop on over to zenos and watch the P-38 video. the pilot demonstrates single engine flight. after the demonstration he shows how to restart the engine. to make it short, you turn on everything needed to run the engine and unfeather the propeller. the windmilling propeller starts the engine and he states this. the cintrifugal starter of the P-38 is not needed to turn the engine over.

stansdds
05-26-2005, 05:38 PM
The starter cartridge was used to get the propellor to turn without human assistance, that is all it did. Once the prop was turning, the pilot would turn on the magnetos and the engine would fire. An engine turned off in mid air should restart unless the prop is feathered. Even if the prop were feathered, just slowly un-feather and when the prop is turning, prime and switch on the magnetos.

Fennec_P
05-26-2005, 11:08 PM
Ingame, it doesn't seem all that complicated.

To start, you must be going a decent speed (lets say 300km/h). Press engine start once to make the prop spin, then again to start the engine. It's a little different than it used to be; it used to be you only had to hit engine start once.

If the engine has an inertia starter (like 99% of the planes), you don't have to be going any particular speed, just press the engine start key. But it might take a few tries (have to wait till it goes through the motions to see if it started or not, you can't just jam the key over and over).

Throttle setting doesn't seem to affect it; the motor will start whether at 100% or 0%.

Tex-Hill-AVG
06-01-2005, 08:11 AM
After reading this thread, I e-mailed a gentleman who has access to the flight manual for the Corsair. Here is what he wrote me:

The engine is not dependent on airspeed for starting and operation. It is essentially sitting still when you start it on the ground. If the engine stops running in flight the airstream of forward movement will allow the prop to windmill thus negating the need to use the starter to "restart" in flight. As long as the propeller is turning the magnetos that provide the ignition spark to the plugs and cylinders are turning and producing spark. Unlike a car, magnetos do not rely on an outside source of electricity, like a battery, in order to operate. Each mag has its own coil.

The very early Corsairs had what was referred to as a "shotgun" starter. A large shell was placed into what could be considered a sawed off shotgun. The explosive gases were contained in an inertial starter and provided enough energy to turn the motor over several times until ignition was accomplished. In the field, this system was dependent on the supply of these cartridges so relatively early on Pratt & Whitney changed the engine to accept a battery powered starter. The Corsair carried a battery to power the starter which used reduction gearing to turn over the 18 cylinders. This gearing allowed the starter to be the size of the average starter that you would see on a large truck. If the battery was dead or weak, provision was made to "plug in" to an external receptacle on the side of the airplane to power the starter from an external battery or an APU.

Hope this helps every one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WWSensei
06-01-2005, 11:05 AM
Real aircraft aside most of you aren't remembering the history of IL2 (or maybe don't know it) but the answer is far simpler. Seems some had figured out in early versions of the game that blipping the engine off and back on instantly cooled the engine. People complained so Oleg added a "random restart" feature and I believe a few of the aircraft that needed start carts were made not to restart unless they were parked on a runway.

Now my memory may be fading but I think there was also a random engine damage added to restart so that the more often you toggled on and off you got a higher chance of trashing the engine...might be wrong there though...

Waldo.Pepper
06-01-2005, 12:35 PM
If you go back to the Original Il2 game, engines (with the exception of the I-16 series and maybe one or two others [I forget actually]) could stop and start their engines at will (like WW1 planes and the Coupe button).

No only was this unrealistic, Oleg (and the dev team if I may speak for them) saw this as an exploit and changed it, thankfully.