PDA

View Full Version : Yipeeee! a tiger Moth in SOW



Mercanario
01-29-2008, 04:36 AM
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?s=3284db9a2...d3457d94bcd0e&t=2429 (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?s=3284db9a27f49892b52d3457d94bcd0e&t=2429)

Mercanario
01-29-2008, 04:36 AM
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?s=3284db9a2...d3457d94bcd0e&t=2429 (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?s=3284db9a27f49892b52d3457d94bcd0e&t=2429)

Skoshi Tiger
01-29-2008, 05:03 AM
Something for our blue friends to strafe on the grass aero clubs! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I wonder if you could strap a lewis gun on the top wing?

leitmotiv
01-29-2008, 05:34 AM
Yawn.

Pluto8742
01-29-2008, 07:09 AM
Good news. The Tiger Moth is one of the most charismatic aircraft of all time.

Cheers,

P8.

JG53Frankyboy
01-29-2008, 07:21 AM
im personally still thinking that the time needed to programm such a plane in a combat flightsim is a waste of time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and that you "need" it for training, well, we are sitting behind a PC screen , so to train flying with a any plane should not be a proplem - we will survive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

but as i said, its personal.

Bewolf
01-29-2008, 07:29 AM
I think its a great idea to include such a plane, especially for the traiining lessons. Whenever I bring ppl to IL2 I got to give them the gladiator for first training flights.
Not just for immersion, but also for the fun in flying such planes. Do not forget there are enough fans of just "flying" this sim, without any combat involved.

I just wished they put in a Jungman or a FW.

tools4foolsA
01-29-2008, 07:31 AM
Aaron GT,

problem is not that wing sweep was done for cog first (later inner wing leading edge for performance) but rather that Taggy just picks his favorite cherries.

In ALL the 'sources' he posted links/quoted the 262 is praised for its design, it is mentioned that inner wing was done for performance, that 262 was first systematic design of swept wing, but he ignore all that.

Instead he calls it 'dump luck' and a 'flop' (all his sources oppose that).
Plus his beloved P-80 being a 'good early fighter design' instead of that '262 flop'...

But it is a waste of time, no one will ever change his silly view.
It's all there in his qoutes/sources, but if he even refuses to read what he dislikes, then how could you expect him to listen to someone else?

Waste of time.
+++++

M_Gunz
01-29-2008, 08:00 AM
AFAIK there's either Tiger Moths or very good replicas still in use and likely to have good data
on the RL flight characteristics. If so then it would make a great test plane for the Flight
Engine code and model tweaking, not a waste by any means.

JG53Frankyboy
01-29-2008, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
AFAIK there's either Tiger Moths or very good replicas still in use and likely to have good data
on the RL flight characteristics. If so then it would make a great test plane for the Flight
Engine code and model tweaking, not a waste by any means. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

than they have two planes for that "testing" - because the Su-26 will also be included.......

LEBillfish
01-29-2008, 08:11 AM
Well, if they have Tiger Moths for training for the Brits, then shouldn't the Germans have a glider?

JG52Uther
01-29-2008, 08:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Well, if they have Tiger Moths for training for the Brits, then shouldn't the Germans have a glider? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No we will just use captured French and British planes.Anyway,if we have realistic sized maps there will be plenty of Me109 gliders over the channel.

leitmotiv
01-29-2008, 08:24 AM
Now the Germans should start demanding a Fw 56 Stosser which was their wartime aerobatic trainer. Yanks should demand an AT-6, Brits raise the friggin ante with a demand for an Anson trainer, etc., until the exasperated Oleg releases the landmark flight sim: TRAINING SCHOOL with all those famous trainers you have been dying to use....

cygfrain
01-29-2008, 08:32 AM
Excellent news. For RAF and commonwealth airforces it'll make for extra realism in pilot career campaigns.

I've also been lucky enough to have had a ride in the real thing so it will be interesting to see what the simulation feels like.

Thanks Oleg and team http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

M_Gunz
01-29-2008, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Now the Germans should start demanding a Fw 56 Stosser which was their wartime aerobatic trainer. Yanks should demand an AT-6, Brits raise the friggin ante with a demand for an Anson trainer, etc., until the exasperated Oleg releases the landmark flight sim: TRAINING SCHOOL with all those famous trainers you have been dying to use.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might make a good pay-for addon you think? Somewhere after the Med, Norway and Pacific addons?

Really though, "demand" is like a buzzword for "too childish to be reasonable".

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 08:43 AM
I have less than no interest in planes that were not used in combat.

If I want to fly a plane like the moth I'll buy a real one.

leitmotiv
01-29-2008, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
I have less than no interest in planes that were not used in combat.

If I want to fly a plane like the moth I'll buy a real one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, and it has been well modeled in FSX. Trainers in a combat flight sim are wasted space.

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 08:52 AM
I understand the argument that they might use it to test the FM, assuming one of them actually owns a moth to test with. I'm fine with that, but I'm certainly not going to get excited about it. If that's why it exists, then I'll hope the FM is better than what we have seen in the past because of it, but I don't see myself flying it.

My rule for computer games is not to do things in a game that I can do in RL. Flying planes and NOT shooting people is available to me in RL. Flying planes with guns is not available to me, so it has some interest.

Friendly_flyer
01-29-2008, 09:24 AM
One of the things that really made the Battle of Britain campaign by Extreme One and Pyomando such an immersive experience was the training missions at the start. With a Tigermoth, this could be doubly so, and as Bewolf said, some of us like to just fly around every now and then.

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 09:33 AM
YOu can joy ride in a spitfire, too, you know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG52Uther
01-29-2008, 09:52 AM
Well I will never complain about more flyables.Its just a shame they don't spend the energy on something useful to the BoB instead,like a flyable Dornier 17,or Defiant.

Waldo.Pepper
01-29-2008, 09:59 AM
I may be mistaken, but IIRC these trainers are a response to demands from the community.

Wasn't this a community idea to add a trainer? Didn't we want a dual control trainer?

(When I say we read this as - enough of the community to make up a large enough voting block for Oleg to perceive this as a substantial block.)

When the publisher is responsive to the community I like that.

JG53Frankyboy
01-29-2008, 10:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
...............

Wasn't this a community idea to add a trainer? Didn't we want a dual control trainer?

..................... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i said no thx http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

anyway, the Moth will come , if one like it or not.
it will not harm the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
i flew the Bi-2 once, and it did not harm the plessure of this game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Heliopause
01-29-2008, 10:08 AM
Not just as a trainer...this kite stood-at-the ready to be used as a light ground-attack plane when the German troops landed on the beaches.
Just a little detail.....

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 10:14 AM
I do recall some conversations regarding trainers (and functionality as trainers).

I think that WarBirds had a decent technique for this without having a custom plane. You could request to join any other pilot as an observer. You'd be sitting in their lap, so to speak. Basically, you see what they see. So you go for a ride, and it's like watching a track in il-2 where the views are set to mimic the real flight.

Something like that should be pretty easy and doesn't require a special plane. Certainly useful for training noobs.

BirdieNum-nums
01-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Wow! Oleg and crew decide to include the Tiger Moth after all and the only thing some people can do is complain? Where is your heart?

Someone proposes that they should have modelled a Dornier bomber instead. Clearly, modelling a Tiger Moth and a Dornier bomber (any of them) wouldn't involve the same amount of time. A bomber would take tons more time to model. So how is that even a valid comparison? Sure, it would have been cool, but there's only so much time that they can devote to SOW, isn't there? If they wait too long, some of us might tear our hair out.

This little Tiger Moth is wonderful addition, for training pilots. Think about it: a trainer has not yet been offered in this series. And I'm next to certain that MOST of you will be seduced by the idea of taking up a friend, son, daughter, mother, father, girlfriend, wife, up in the Moth with you, so you can show them how it's done. This sim doesn't ALWAYS have to be about combat.

Think about it.

Cheers,
Birdie Num-nums

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-29-2008, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
im personally still thinking that the time needed to programm such a plane in a combat flightsim is a waste of time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and that you "need" it for training, well, we are sitting behind a PC screen , so to train flying with a any plane should not be a proplem - we will survive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

but as i said, its personal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love the idea and I believe it will be a great tool to help the newbies.

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-29-2008, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I may be mistaken, but IIRC these trainers are a response to demands from the community.

Wasn't this a community idea to add a trainer? Didn't we want a dual control trainer?

(When I say we read this as - enough of the community to make up a large enough voting block for Oleg to perceive this as a substantial block.)

When the publisher is responsive to the community I like that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It certainly was the community who pleaded for a trainer. Hundreds of peoples wishes can be found here and simhq. You will have a few who say they do not want it, but why not. What could it hurt? As fas as extra time taken I hardly doubt that should be an issue or concern now.

S~

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 12:06 PM
Will such a trainer have dual controls? If not, taking someone for a ride is no different than them standing behind you while you fly, or the ability to have them "sit on your lap" from another machine.

Adding dual controls has utility beyond a trainer, however.

Presumably if you pilot a bomber the DM would allow you to switch to the copilot if the pilot should be killed, right?

It would actually be funny (and somewhat typical) if they add dual controls to the moth, and bombers still get PKed with 1 shot. Missed opportunity.

Pluto8742
01-29-2008, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
If I want to fly a plane like the moth I'll buy a real one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your job must pay better than mine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,

P8.

GBrutus
01-29-2008, 01:57 PM
I think it's a great idea to include the Tiger Moth. I've been lucky enough to have a go at flying the real thing so it'll be interesting see how Oleg's version compares.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
I just wished they put in a Jungman or a FW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought Oleg was going to include a Jungmann or Fw-44 for SoW, was a while back when I read this however...

MEGILE
01-29-2008, 02:00 PM
I don't have an opinion.
Someone give me one.

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 02:01 PM
Looks like a Tiger Moth costs about as much as the SUVs I'm shopping for right now &lt;shrug&gt;.

tater

leitmotiv
01-29-2008, 03:25 PM
Would have made more sense to simply make a trainer which was used by the British and the Germans---the example which readily springs to mind is the original North American trainer (British "Harvard") with fixed undercarriage---it was used by the French and the Germans after capturing them in 1940. Doing a T Moth will just offend the Germans who will now want an Ar 96 trainer for their side. I suspect game companies which make flight simulators could save themselves a lot of grief by having a couple historians on board to advise them instead of blowing with each gust of wind from gamers. After all, these things are supposedly more simulator than toy (though they ain't in practice).

JG53Frankyboy
01-29-2008, 03:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Would have made more sense to simply make a trainer which was used by the British and the Germans---the example which readily springs to mind is the original North American trainer (British "Harvard") with fixed undercarriage---it was used by the French and the Germans after capturing them in 1940. Doing a T Moth will just offend the Germans who will now want an Ar 96 trainer for their side. I suspect game companies which make flight simulators could save themselves a lot of grief by having a couple historians on board to advise the instead of blowing with each gust of wind from gamers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

narrowminded players will indeed whine that there is a RAF trainer but no LW/RA one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

as long players dont whine that there will be so much LW/RA bombers flyable compared to the RAF side http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

i will pay for the whole game - so i will use the whole content....
so, if i realy want to play a trainng session the RAF side will do it !

and about no Fw44 (as example) will appear most porpably not with the release...... well, i guess lack of time and labour !
Guess why i would more have liked that the work needed to make the Moth flyable, would have put in something other - to say it something combat like http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Yes, a Defiant would be classic - hell, crewed by two humans online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

but anyway, the Moth will come - POINT .

DuxCorvan
01-29-2008, 03:40 PM
I'm glad to have WW2 planes, no matter if they're combat types or not. War wasn't only fought with bullets, you know. Immersion is a great point in a sim, and having a proper pilot career campaign includes having proper training types to start with. It may lead to interesting "qualifying" missions, as well as double-command online training courses for online squadron newbies.

DuxCorvan
01-29-2008, 03:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
My rule for computer games is not to do things in a game that I can do in RL. Flying planes and NOT shooting people is available to me in RL. Flying planes with guns is not available to me, so it has some interest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shooting people and NOT flying planes is available to me in RL. Unfortunately it is deemed illegal by some people. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

luftluuver
01-29-2008, 03:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Would have made more sense to simply make a trainer which was used by the British and the Germans---the example which readily springs to mind is the original North American trainer (British "Harvard") with fixed undercarriage---it was used by the French and the Germans after capturing them in 1940. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you get that out of one of your book? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Best close that book and never open it again.

The a/c was the BT-9 <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Yale</span> and NJ-1 for the USN. NAA designations: NA-57 for France, NA-64 for GB, NA-16 for the USAAC.

Tiger Moths in the LW

DH-82 Austria received German code D-EDLM was used by FAR 24 at Olmutz during Jan.40-Jul.40.
DH-82 bought prewar received German code D-EDRS.
DH-82 Norway received German code 6M+OS or GM+OS
DH-82A received German code TD+CV

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1039

Petey78
01-29-2008, 04:59 PM
&lt;Quote&gt;: "Looks like a Tiger Moth costs about as much as the SUVs I'm shopping for right now &lt;shrug&gt;."

Well, good for you, lots of us are certainly impressed by how much money you obviously earn and we're glad you chose to share that with us... It wasn't vulgar at all, really http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif but there's really no accounting for taste. If I could afford to spend 55-60k on an ugly, innefficiant and value-shedding SUV, I'd buy a good used car for 2500 and spend the rest on a Tiger Moth.

But that's because I prefer flying to driving, I haven't got money to burn and because SUV's, at least in the UK, are normally driven badly by paranoid, rich women to transport their obnoxious brats to and from their expensive school of choice. They're called "Chelsea Tractors" here. Unlike an SUV the Tiger Moth will retain and probably gain value and as a bonus, you won't look a knob behind the controls. Your cash to waste as you see fit though! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

MB_Avro_UK
01-29-2008, 05:00 PM
Hi all,

Pic of my father with a Tiger Moth as a trainee RAF pilot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/MB_Avro/avros.jpg

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 05:05 PM
When I looked this morning the moths were on the order of 70,000US.

That's a nice, but certainly not insanely priced car these days. That's like 30,000 pounds, right?

I have to get a fairly large one so I can get the kid's friends in the back if I need to. In addition, so much as 1/2 inch of snow makes it very difficult to get to my house (steep hill). So 4WD is a must.

Even the cheap trucks like that here in the US (3 rows of seats, 4WD) start around 30 grand. I should seriously consider buying a beater used truck and a biplane http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Viper2005_
01-29-2008, 06:00 PM
The nice thing about the inclusion of the Tiger Moth is that a joy-ride in an example in very close to original condition is within the reach of quite a number of enthusiasts in the UK. And of course, as it's a dual control aircraft, it lends itself nicely to the task of comparing simulation with reality.

Meanwhile, a single seat, exotic machine like the Su-26 is far less useful for testing by the average user here, but great for Oleg's team...

I don't see what people can possibly be complaining about.

M_Gunz
01-29-2008, 06:05 PM
What you can't see over the net is that some people have tattoos saying "Born To B!tch".

AKA_TAGERT
01-29-2008, 06:09 PM
huh.. you never struck me as the type that would sport a tat

M_Gunz
01-29-2008, 06:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I suspect game companies which make flight simulators could save themselves a lot of grief by having a couple historians on board to advise them instead of blowing with each gust of wind from gamers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You think that is at all accurate in the case of Maddox Games? You really think so or just
like the way it sounds in your head? Please consider the gunsight view from FW and tell us
that again while perhaps remembering a long string of directions they have not been blown in.

Gust of wind... yeah sure!

tagTaken2
01-29-2008, 06:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
I'm glad to have WW2 planes, no matter if they're combat types or not. War wasn't only fought with bullets, you know. Immersion is a great point in a sim, and having a proper pilot career campaign includes having proper training types to start with. It may lead to interesting "qualifying" missions, as well as double-command online training courses for online squadron newbies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What he said.

dangerlaef
01-29-2008, 06:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
... Brits raise the friggin ante with a demand for an Anson trainer... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe there will indeed be an Anson.

More allied bias http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

M_Gunz
01-29-2008, 06:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
huh.. you never struck me as the type that would sport a tat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The usual stupid cheap shot by the usual stupid cheap shot.

M_Gunz
01-29-2008, 06:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
When I looked this morning the moths were on the order of 70,000US.

That's a nice, but certainly not insanely priced car these days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few like you could simply chip in what you think of as some pocket cash and probably Oleg
could easily hire the extra crew to make more models.

heywooood
01-29-2008, 06:34 PM
is this the surly Tiger Moth discussion?...hope I didn't miss it.

never thought I'd see people b1tch about a flyable plane in a Maddox sim ev....er...errmmm

nevermind

there ire several Moth variants available for FSX already as someone pointed out - I think it is from Aeroplane Heaven...nice one by the looks of it though I have not purchased it...it ain't free.

Having one to fly in pilot training missions will be a good deal for us offliners but I can see why online DFers would moan...they are already such excellent pilots harrumph "all Oleg is doing is reducing the number of combat planes in a combat simulator" etc....

Well there you have it more fuel for the off vs online uncivil war fires....hahaha

ImpStarDuece
01-29-2008, 06:50 PM
Personally, I think a basic trainer is a wonderful idea.

The potential for immersion in a campaign is fantastic.

Imagine being a raw RAF recruit in May 1940 and strapping yourself into a bright yellow Tiger Moth for the first time. While you power up and taxi out for your first solo, a damaged Belnheim IV, shot up over the North Sea or France, roars overhead headed for another nearby field, trailing smoke.

Out on the grassy field, two trios of Hurricanes, propellers flashing in the Summer sunshine, increase power and take off in formation into the wind, banking gently to the right and climbing away to disappear for a patrol.

Envious of their power and speed, you finish taxing out to the field and get the final nod to go solo. You test the alierons, rudder and elevators, take a breath, release the brake and push the throttle forward. Careening down the broad, grassy green field, you get up speed, ease back on the stick, hit a little bump and all of a sudden you're airborne for the first time.

Climbing to 1,000 feet, you see the panorama of the fields and towns of Southern England spread before you. The haze of London to the Northwest and the smoke rising from the Dunkirk evacuation blowing in from over the Channel are the only impediments to your unlimited view of the earth.

Ignoring these distraction, you reduce power a fraction and complete a circuit around the field, seeing the lines of Tigers lined up on the field, interspersed with Hurricanes and Spitfires. Off to the West, you spot the smoke from the damaged Blenheim, which is safely on the ground now, with red fire engines and trucks parked around it, the fire crew working gamely to spray the port engine before it catches fire and the whole crate goes up.

One more circuit and you're ready to land. Cut the power, check your approach and come down just like your instructor taught. Well, maybe a touch faster, the grouchy, grizzled old sort was always a little too cautious. 50 feet, 30 feet, 15 feet, 10, 5 feet.

OOOFFF! Touchdown and a couple of bounces before the Tiger Moth settles down on the grass. Damn, I'm going to catch a hiding from the instructor and more than a little cheek from the other lads. Still, I've just done my first solo, and you couldn't wipe the grin of my face even if the whole Luftwaffe appeared overhead at the moment.

Now, when do I get to fly a Hurricane?

M_Gunz
01-29-2008, 07:03 PM
That was a Tiger Moth that Edmund and Baldrick were supposed to be in in the Black Adder
episode "Private Plane" wasn't it?

It's got swept wings. Must have had a CoG problem with the second cockpit, huh?

fabianfred
01-29-2008, 07:07 PM
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/2701200814-36-02.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/2701200814-42-13.jpg

Petey78
01-29-2008, 07:13 PM
&lt;Quote&gt; "When I looked this morning the moths were on the order of 70,000US.

That's a nice, but certainly not insanely priced car these days. That's like 30,000 pounds, right?

Even the cheap trucks like that here in the US (3 rows of seats, 4WD) start around 30 grand. I should seriously consider buying a beater used truck and a biplane"

That's the spirit, driving trucks can rarely hold a candle to the experience of open cockpit flying IMHO! An aquaintance of mine who's suffering from diminishing health has recently put up both of his Tiger Moths for sale at asking prices of 55k and 60k resepctively (he's keeping his Auster, Currie Wot SE5a replica and nemerous classic cars and motorbikes to occupy himself). I think it's perhaps a bit of optimistic pricing on his part but both aircraft are in immaculate condition and one in particular has an interesting history. I think you can probably pick up aircraft in general more cheaply in the States than you can in the UK, one of my aquaintance's Tiger Moths was bought there quite recently. When I left school about fifteen years ago, Tiger Moths were going for between 30k and 35k, it seems that US prices haven't moved much since then. 30k sterling will buy you an awesome (by my standards) car! As an indicator I payed 520 for my beater and 3500 for my classic car, still going to be a while before I can entertain buying my own Tiger Moth and if I'm honest, I think the Stampe, Stearman and Jungmann/Jungmeister are all better flying aircraft! First flew in a Tiger Moth when I was seven though so have a soft spot for them! Good luck in buying a truck AND a biplane, especially when it comes to getting the seal of approval from your partner!!

Pete

Petey78
01-29-2008, 07:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's got swept wings. Must have had a CoG problem with the second cockpit, huh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wasn't a CoG issue that was the problem, it was a military stipulation to allow easier access and egress from the front cockpit when wearing bulky parachutes! The prototype Tiger Moth was basically a derivation of the Moth Major, which looked very much like a straight winged Tiger Moth. The prototype was aledgedly modified and built without drawings being fully completed, if you look carefully you can see that the wing panels are simply DH60 Moth panels with the root rib angled to give the sweep back. All other wing ribs run perpendicular to the leading and trailing edges. Also, the lower wing has more dihedral than the top, this was due to the wings dragging in long grass on the prototype. It really was a chop and change development job but resulted in one of the most iconic aircraft ever built. Show a layman a biplane, pretty much any single engined biplane and he'll probably say it's a Tiger Moth! In RL, the Tiger Moth is sluggish on the ailerons but very light in pitch and yaw, it's a difficult aeroplane to fly well but a great trainer as a result and tends to endear it's pilots. My late father used to fly a terrifying aerobatics display in his club Tiger Moth back in the day! He always said that the Stampe SV4b is all round a better handling aircraft and the Jungmeister was without parallel until the Pitts came along. The Stampes achilles' heel is a wooden tie rod for the lower wing (WW1 technology), that requires regular inspection and replacement. BTW, the Tiger Moth in the screenies above appears to have Stampe SV4b wingtips! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Petey78
01-29-2008, 07:29 PM
... And aileron pushrods between upper and lower wings when the Tiger Moth had no ailerons on the top wing. The fin looks DH but the rest looks decidedly Stampe. Does anyone know where the model's from?

DKoor
01-29-2008, 08:45 PM
Dornier 17 seems to be a really forgotten aircraft of this series.

Petey78
01-29-2008, 08:51 PM
Agreed, whilst I welcome the Tiger Moth, the Do-17 is needed far more. Is the lack of accurate historical documentation the cause of its absence?

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 09:23 PM
I longingly look at warbird prices in the US (places like http://courtesyaircraft.com/ ) and the real warbirds are so expensive. Finding something fun for less than 150 grand is pretty hard unless you are prepared to restore it.

Be fun to get several guys together and buy one...

Think I'm stuck with a toyota land cruiser, lol. We do have pretty sketchy roads to trails I hike here and in colorado, so it's not like it'll be totally unused.

fabianfred
01-29-2008, 09:31 PM
an early morning flight at 0750 am on the sunday morning 7th dec. ...Battleship row...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/3001200811-10-22.jpg

Petey78
01-29-2008, 10:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted Tue January 29 2008 20:23 Hide Post
I longingly look at warbird prices in the US (places like http://courtesyaircraft.com/ ) and the real warbirds are so expensive. Finding something fun for less than 150 grand is pretty hard unless you are prepared to restore it.

Be fun to get several guys together and buy one...

Think I'm stuck with a toyota land cruiser, lol. We do have pretty sketchy roads to trails I hike here and in colorado, so it's not like it'll be totally unused </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the majority of UK 'off-roaders' ever get off tarmac. It's a sad state of affairs! If you're looking for a cheaper warbird, (or as near to a warbird as a relatively affluent individual ie: not a multi-millionaire, can realistically afford), how about one of these?

http://www.spitfireaircraftco.com/

It's 100% scale but 1000lbs lighter than the original and it's performance should actually exceed that of the original fighter! Given that original Spitfires are now selling for upwards of 1M, this offers a substantial saving for something that looks and performs like the original. However, it's still $350k over your $150k limit! Restoration of authentic WW2 warbirds would be many times this though and with a few lads combining resources you could be flying a Spitfire for the same cost as something far more boring. I've just noticed: if you want the two seater version (turnkey) you'll need to come up with $500k before Friday, good luck!!

Pete

Petey78
01-29-2008, 10:33 PM
[quote]Posted Tue January 29 2008 20:23 Hide Post
I longingly look at warbird prices in the US (places like http://courtesyaircraft.com/ ) and the real warbirds are so expensive. Finding something fun for less than 150 grand is pretty hard unless you are prepared to restore it.

Be fun to get several gu

Tater-SW-
01-29-2008, 10:54 PM
I wasn't suggesting that I was even in the market at 150k, lol. Just that 150k is about as cheap as you can find ANYTHING at all, lol.

320k, ouch. Still, a very cool idea.

Actually, for a fun plane, there are replica ww1 planes using radials instead of rotaries:

http://www.airdromeairplanes.com/airdrome/images/triplane_infopage.jpg
1:1 scale. kits are like 10 grand, and I think you can pay them to build it for you in which case it's more like 30k. Still, I have seriously thought about something like that...

Petey78
01-29-2008, 11:18 PM
This'll make you sick, it does me: The guy I mentioned with the two Tiger Moths earlier in this thread also has an immaculate Currie Wot SE5a replica, a single seat, mildly aerobatic biplane, fitted with (I think) a Continental C90. It wasn't perfect when he bought it but he hasn't had to spend much time or money on it (a minor U/C repair and cosmetics really) and the rumours are that he only paid appx. US$9k for it (4500 ish)! If I had a PPL (saving sloooowly for one) I'd be nagging him right now to sell it on to me, I'd snap his hand off if he'd take 7000 for it! Good aircraft are out there if you look hard enough though even the likes of the Tiger Moth are beyond what the average person can afford these days... and to think they were virtually giving them away at the end of the war and burning any they couldn't sell... it's enough to make a grown man cry! A mate of mine knew a farmer who lived up the road from here who used to buy surplus Spitfires, hack the wings off with a saw, fling them on his low loader, strip them on his farm and sell them for scrap. I've forgotten how much my mate said you could buy them for but I think it was 50-100 ready to rock. I try not to think about it too much, makes me want to scream out, "NOOOOOOOOO!"

Incidentally, the same farmer used a surplus and illegally obtained Bren gun mounted in the top window of his barn to deal with the rabbits and similarly obtained hand-grenades to see off the rats in the haystacks. My mate helped him bury his remaining arsenal sometime in the mid seventies when the police started getting a little too inquisitive! My mate refuses to tell me where they buried the weapons though, he knows me too well; we all know what curiosity did to the cat!

BTW, thanks for the link for the warbird dealers, that Bearcat made me drool!

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-30-2008, 12:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
What you can't see over the net is that some people have tattoos saying "Born To B!tch". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats really humorous in so many ways...lol. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

S!

slipBall
01-30-2008, 02:14 AM
The addition of the trainer makes the probability of pilot/co-pilot of bomber's...that to me is the important thing to remember here

Mercanario
01-30-2008, 02:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
an early morning flight at 0750 am on the sunday morning 7th dec. ...Battleship row...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/3001200811-10-22.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that il2 fabianfred? what aircraft is that?

major_setback
01-30-2008, 02:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
I understand the argument that they might use it to test the FM, assuming one of them actually owns a moth to test with. I'm fine with that, but I'm certainly not going to get excited about it. If that's why it exists, then I'll hope the FM is better than what we have seen in the past because of it, but I don't see myself flying it.

My rule for computer games is not to do things in a game that I can do in RL. Flying planes and NOT shooting people is available to me in RL. Flying planes with guns is not available to me, so it has some interest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is aTiger Moth that takes people for rides at Duxford Flying Legends show. I wonder if Oleg was up in it when he came over. You can buy trips in it anytime. My uncle went up in it a few years ago, as a birthday present.

Trainers: I think Oleg has indicated that we might be having multi positions (pilot, navigator, co-pilot etc) in multiplay, which means you could take a novice up online and show him the ropes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

fabianfred
01-30-2008, 04:22 AM
my brother got his Private pilots License in a Tiger Moth...
outside Cambridge was a small club which ran several....

M_Gunz
01-30-2008, 04:58 AM
He might have fun with SoW or he might go away saying that sims just don't cut it.

Skoshi Tiger
01-30-2008, 06:02 AM
The Royal Areo Club (of Western Australia) has a Tiger Moth.

You can do your tail wheel endorsement in her or go on joy flights! Quite reasonable rates too if your comparing it to the Cessna 152's they have.

My wife has a 4WD (Nissan Patrol) to take our kids to school in (government school- not a swish private one), but as there isn't a boat ramp at the family's holiday house, we need the 4x4 to put in the tinnie in off the beach! (plus truck around 6 people and the dog)

Unfortunately my dreams of owning anything as cool as a tigermoth ended the day I had my first born. On the prioity list, just scrounging the money to do a hours flying is pritty low! Hopefully my kids will move out before they're 30 and the bald eagle can take to the skies again! (hopefully in a tiger moth!)

I should be alowed to dream shouldn't I?

DKoor
01-30-2008, 06:51 AM
Any news when sow will be out?

msalama
01-30-2008, 06:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Any news when sow will be out? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No idea. Nowhere near finished is where they still are though. Sometime next year is my own personal uneducated guess...

Klemm.co
01-30-2008, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Any news when sow will be out? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No idea. Nowhere near finished is where they still are though. Sometime next year is my own personal uneducated guess... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And exactly that's what everybody said the year before, before... before...
I guess it's out at least in 2020. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif