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skimbo
05-25-2007, 01:58 AM
Hi all

Just wonder if anyone could give me some nuggets of information about flying the P38 series of planes.

I've always loved these beasties. Are they really manouverable? (my test flight last night seems to indicate they arent!) I thought I read somewhere that they could out turn spits.

Any info on fighting/flying this gem would be apprectiated!

Cheers in advance.

Skimbo

skimbo
05-25-2007, 01:58 AM
Hi all

Just wonder if anyone could give me some nuggets of information about flying the P38 series of planes.

I've always loved these beasties. Are they really manouverable? (my test flight last night seems to indicate they arent!) I thought I read somewhere that they could out turn spits.

Any info on fighting/flying this gem would be apprectiated!

Cheers in advance.

Skimbo

Jasko76
05-25-2007, 02:08 AM
I cna't say I'm expert on P-38 but speed is your best friend. Use it wise and you can gan advantage on most adversaries. As for its maneuverability, I don't think we can get the best of it in this sim. Trying to outturn a Spit is not the way to do it IMHO!

Gibbage1
05-25-2007, 02:21 AM
Well here, they DONT out turn spits.

Lets run down the basics of P-38 flying.

#1, fly high.

#2, dont enguage someone above you.

#3, fly fast.

#4, dont stay with ANY target for more then 1 turn.

Now, I have found the P-38 capable of fighting most aircraft 1 on 1. The problem is, the P-38 is a BIG target, and worth 2x the points online. So you never get 1 on 1 fights. You will attract enemy's like fly's on you know what. So DONT, I repeat DONT stay enguaged 1 on 1. Stay high, dive down, get your shot, then climb away.

Jasko76
05-25-2007, 03:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Well here, they DONT out turn spits.

Stay high, dive down, get your shot, then climb away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that about sums it up!

DKoor
05-25-2007, 03:31 AM
All that has been said are good advices...... I feel that we need to mention excellent P-38 RoC (LATE Lightning). On 25% fuel it's on par with 109s.... which is as good as it can be.

skimbo
05-25-2007, 06:25 AM
Thanks guys

Skimbo

Divine-Wind
05-25-2007, 12:42 PM
Heck, even the J model is a great climber. Plus the two engines just sound big and powerful. Just remember if you stay in a dive too long you'll lose your tail booms. (L models have the airbrake thingy though, so that helps - Just don't keep it open as it drops your speed like a brick wall)

Just try and aim for the wing roots and engine when you dive on someone, those are generally the weaker areas. (Plus hitting the engine can knock it off or you may get some cockpit shots)

Xiolablu3
05-25-2007, 01:09 PM
You might find hte odd person claiming they could outturn SPits, but you find people who say their favourite plane can outperform anything in the sky.

Take these comments with a pinch of salt, especially when its a big heavy 2 engined plane. (Not ****ging it off here, but it IS)

Its a fantastic fighter-bomber, and a fighter than can hold its own. In fact I would say its the best combination of fighter-bomber in the game, why the USAAF was considering buying Mosquitos/Hornets in 1945 I have no idea if the P38 was this good!

As a fighter use energy tactics and B&Z. Dont get too fast though or else the elevators will lock up, use trim to pull out if this happens.

super71957
05-25-2007, 01:23 PM
I find using combat flaps helps a great deal in turning tight.As others have said watch your speed,high speed dives you must be careful as you will lose a great deal of elevator effectiveness.A great fighter,I practice quite a bit with it but a bit difficult to get used to. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BillyTheKid_22
05-25-2007, 09:46 PM
http://www.knupps.net/p38%202.jpg



Great Nice!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



http://www.colacola.se/pix/640_p38.jpg



http://www.colacola.se/pix/640_p38_2.jpg



http://www.virtualcorsair.fr/meeting/GunFighter1.jpg

BfHeFwMe
05-25-2007, 11:30 PM
I bet it could easily out turn Spits, at 30,000'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

tsisqua
05-26-2007, 11:01 AM
Hi!

If you fly the L model with the airbrakes, there's a little trick that you can employ to get turned back on an enemy quite quickly: Go vertical, chop the throttle as soon as you achieve a verticle attitude, then extend the airbrake at the same time. You will reverse direction very fast. (Make sure that you aren't 'low-n-slow when trying this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif)

Also, even though I haven't had the best of luck with this, you can select the engine on the side that you wish to turn, then chop the throttle on that engine so that the opposing engine can pull you around faster. Great for hammerhead turns.

One of the funnest planes in the game . . .

Have fun, Mate

Tsisqua

Col._King
05-26-2007, 03:09 PM
~S~

Tsisqua! Was looking to enter contact with you.

My Email is:

Col._Douglas_King#hotmail.com

It is about an aircraft skin I know you have.

Thank you.

fordfan25
05-26-2007, 03:47 PM
dont dog fight anything other than maby a FW190. also use the air brake in a hard turn as it does not seem to eat any more E than just turning. for some resone the 38 got very heavey last patch and even a med angle turn will eat E like a fat girl in a donute shope. you can even hear it stalling in the air. the J moddle in a reralistic server like ZvsW going aginst 43 japo planes is a awsome ride. only thing is with out the fowler flaps it can be imposable to pull a beed on those japos if thay see you even for a secound.

fordfan25
05-26-2007, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
http://www.knupps.net/p38%202.jpg



Great Nice!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



http://www.colacola.se/pix/640_p38.jpg



http://www.colacola.se/pix/640_p38_2.jpg



http://www.virtualcorsair.fr/meeting/GunFighter1.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>billy were did u get those pics. can thay be used for dektop?

DKoor
05-26-2007, 03:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tsisqua:
chop the throttle on that engine so that the opposing engine can pull you around faster. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Can this be used to turn faster? I mean insta turn..... because I think with lower power, player wont gain much from lowering throttle on one prop while doing several turns.
I may be wrong tho. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Korolov1986
05-26-2007, 04:15 PM
It's supposed to help you roll faster, but due to the torque modeling I think it doesn't help much.

M2morris
05-26-2007, 04:52 PM
This guy was a BMF, I think he got over 40 kills in a P-38.
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/ozatwar/bong.htm (http://home.st.net.au/%7Edunn/ozatwar/bong.htm)

mortoma
05-26-2007, 05:19 PM
No sim with the Lightning in it does justice as to just how big they are. I finally saw and got up close to one at an airshow about 2002, and let me tell you, you'd think they should be dedicated bombers. They are humongous, and they one I saw had a Catalina and a B-17 parked close to it. It still looked big. You'd have to see one up close to see what I mean. I realize this bit of info does not really contribute much to the theme of this thread. Did I mention that P-38s are big??

AKA_TAGERT
05-26-2007, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
No sim with the Lightning in it does justice as to just how big they are. I finally saw and got up close to one at an airshow about 2002, and let me tell you, you'd think they should be dedicated bombers. They are humongous, and they one I saw had a Catalina and a B-17 parked close to it. It still looked big. You'd have to see one up close to see what I mean. I realize this bit of info does not really contribute much to the theme of this thread. Did I mention that P-38s are big?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes the 38 is big..

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/4ALL2SEE/PICTURES/MY_MUG/meandp38small.JPG

I am 6'4" and as you can see.. she makes me look like a miget

But don't fool yourself into thinking BIG means slow or that it can not dogfight!

http://www.gibbageart.com/files/Chino07/P1000746.JPG

In that a F15 is bigger.. thus if I used the BIG is bad dog fighter logic that would mean the F15 is a bad dog figher too.. Worse than the 38.

But we know that is not true..

Note not saying a P38 is a F15, just pointing out there is more to it.. it being a good dog fighter than size.

Jasko76
05-27-2007, 04:11 PM
Yeah, the F-15's got a slightly superior thrust to weight ratio! Anyway, can I have the one on the right, please? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

AKA_TAGERT
05-27-2007, 04:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
Yeah, the F-15's got a slightly superior thrust to weight ratio! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>As did the 38 relitive to other single engine fighters.. hence my point.

Jasko76
05-27-2007, 04:20 PM
Absoulutely! It had a very good rate of climb, possibly the best of any common US piston engined fighters? Add to that some sleek lines and - if it looks good it flies good. No?

Daiichidoku
05-27-2007, 04:54 PM
size doesnt matter indeed

the whirlwind was said to be "almost" as manuverable as a spitfire

the P 61 could easily turn inside of most US prop types (with flaps)

Gibbage1
05-27-2007, 08:45 PM
Nice photo's Tag! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Col._King
05-29-2007, 01:03 PM
Lockheed P-38L-5-LO Lightning....
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Divine-Wind
05-29-2007, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
size doesnt matter indeed

the whirlwind was said to be "almost" as manuverable as a spitfire

the P 61 could easily turn inside of most US prop types (with flaps) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Size matters not - Only diameter. And pie. http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

The P-38 is easily one of the best climbers in this game. Good diver too. Plus it's big.

By the way, is that a new signature, King?

Col._King
05-29-2007, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:

By the way, is that a new signature, King? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Hope ya like it as I do LOL

crazyivan1970
05-29-2007, 03:08 PM
I like it but you will have to downsize it according to forum rules....

http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/sig-placeholder.jpg

Same applies to Jasko and Daii

Jasko76
05-29-2007, 05:06 PM
Sig changed as per request, sir! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Divine-Wind
05-29-2007, 05:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Col._King:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:

By the way, is that a new signature, King? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Hope ya like it as I do LOL </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Looks sweet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Monterey13
05-29-2007, 05:27 PM
Just testing mine.

carguy_
05-29-2007, 05:38 PM
In p38L you can fight equally against G6early but later ones are a problem.Against FW190 it`s just a matter of skills.

Although you`re big,you can really take some unishment,up to 5MK108 shells.

Against light bombers and heavy fighters it`s a fascinating ride though.

Daiichidoku
05-29-2007, 05:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Although you`re big,you can really take some unishment,up to 5MK108 shells.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

unless the .303s get there first, in which case kiss your elevator or tail boom(s) bye-bye

marc_hawkins
05-29-2007, 06:00 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/marc410/album_pic4.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Gibbage1
05-29-2007, 11:11 PM
In good hands, and good tactics, the P-38 can and WILL own.

I was flying on 334th with a few of the 334th on commsn. On the other team, was a bunch of 69th giving the 334th a hard time. I had 10 kills, with 1 loss in a P-38 up against some very tight odds.

I had 1 190 dive on me when I was alone, and was able to reverse it when he stalled a few times. I also met a well flown P-51 at co-alt. On commsn, all the 334th guys told me to run from the P-51. I stayed, and won! Got a good hit on his elivator, and he tried to run. I ran him down but he bailed.

Again, to win in a P-38, stay high, pick your battles, and have a few wingmen to pull a Spit off your tail. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The P-38 is in an interesting position. You can out-run anything that can out-manuver you (with a few exceptions) and out-manuver anything that can out-run you.

Daiichidoku
05-29-2007, 11:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
In good hands, and good tactics, the P-38 can and WILL own.

The P-38 is in an interesting position. You can out-run anything that can out-manuver you (with a few exceptions) and out-manuver anything that can out-run you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

absolutely


ive also given nasty surprises to ppl with 38s...1 vs 1, and even at times 2 or 3 to 1s..killed em, hurt em and got away...or just plain made it out of VERY bad place to be alive, against all odds

best is whippin someone in a "noob" ride (and again...or more), then watchin them leave server, ya just KNOW theyre pissed a "bomb truck dog" 38 pwned em

worst is when youre in the groove, flying the 38 to its maximum, right on the edges of its (in game) envelope, doing everything "right", but running out of that envelope, and into a crossover of where the "noob" ride is overmodelled, or the game engine is generous (ie: usually low WL types), and he gets you, if only for the fact the 38 cant do what the other IS doing, but shouldnt be able to do (ie stability at low speed etc)

Gibbage1
05-29-2007, 11:32 PM
I schooled an LA5 just to watch him log out before his carcus hit the ground. When you get a kill in a P-38, its very satisfying. Leaves you warm and fuzzy to know that you just took an "inferior" aircraft, and whooped there "superior" aircraft. Heh. Almost as satisfying as watching a FW-190 try and turn fight my P-38.

Also, 1 other tip. Know your enemy's!

fordfan25
05-30-2007, 12:08 AM
yea on the ETO the plane you realy have to watch out for ... at least in servers with some what realistic plane sets is the dora. its faster and in the hands of a exp FW190 piolet it can fight on equel terms as fasr as knife fighting goes. the Antons are nearly as fast in shorter sprints but are at a disadvantge in a dog fight. all though deadacated FW piolets with skill and know the ..... tricks can mess u up and with those clown cannons it only takes a short burst and u will most likely go by by. 109k is also a threat but can be out turned at high speeds.

late war PTO is a lot harder IMHO. most of the japo late war stuff is as fast or VERY close to the 38s tope speed at med/low alt, will out turn you easy, has better climb, as good a dive rate,all around tougher DM, better guns. one thing iv noticed that can fav the 38late is that if you have enough distance to start with you can get away as the 38 has a bit better heat mangment. bt basicly you just have to extreemly good situatnal awarness and realy pick your fights. now 1943 to early 1944 the 38 has a good speed adv. but once the ki84's,J2M3's and N1K2's are on the map its an under dog.... in this game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Gibbage1
05-30-2007, 12:18 AM
Thats what wingmen are for. Helping you with the stuff that will eat you alive normally on 1 on 1.

mynameisroland
05-30-2007, 04:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
The P-38 is in an interesting position. You can out-run anything that can out-manuver you (with a few exceptions) and out-manuver anything that can out-run you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im not fishing here, and it only concerns fantasy dogfight servers with strange match ups, but have you fought against a Tempest in a P38 Late? It is faster than the P38, rolls as well if not better, dives better, climbs better(at low level) and out turns the P38.

Thats what makes it a nightmare for Fw 190 pilots. It is as fast/faster and trounces them in the manuverability stakes.

mynameisroland
05-30-2007, 04:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
In good hands, and good tactics, the P-38 can and WILL own.

The P-38 is in an interesting position. You can out-run anything that can out-manuver you (with a few exceptions) and out-manuver anything that can out-run you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

absolutely


ive also given nasty surprises to ppl with 38s...1 vs 1, and even at times 2 or 3 to 1s..killed em, hurt em and got away...or just plain made it out of VERY bad place to be alive, against all odds

best is whippin someone in a "noob" ride (and again...or more), then watchin them leave server, ya just KNOW theyre pissed a "bomb truck dog" 38 pwned em

worst is when youre in the groove, flying the 38 to its maximum, right on the edges of its (in game) envelope, doing everything "right", but running out of that envelope, and into a crossover of where the "noob" ride is overmodelled, or the game engine is generous (ie: usually low WL types), and he gets you, if only for the fact the 38 cant do what the other IS doing, but shouldnt be able to do (ie stability at low speed etc) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like P38 J vs Fw 190A5 and Bf 109 G6. Faster than the Bf 109 and more manuverable than the Fw 190, I even enjoy dogfights against the G2 because they invariably underestimate the P38 and if they do they will get their rear end handed to them.

Daiichidoku
05-30-2007, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Im not fishing here, and it only concerns fantasy dogfight servers with strange match ups, but have you fought against a Tempest in a P38 Late? It is faster than the P38, rolls as well if not better, dives better, climbs better(at low level) and out turns the P38.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

odd....in arcade tempests are among what i classify as a lower-level threat to my 38...always a secondary threat compared to most any other types

as for outturning the 38.....can i have some of what your taking? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
the tempest outrolls the L/L late at high speeds?

Daiichidoku
05-30-2007, 07:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
I like P38 J vs Fw 190A5 and Bf 109 G6. Faster than the Bf 109 and more manuverable than the Fw 190, I even enjoy dogfights against the G2 because they invariably underestimate the P38 and if they do they will get their rear end handed to them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed

though i hate G2s, risky messing with them...those magic slats give them way more low speed stabilty than the 38...sure ,understandable, as the 109 is the smallest lightest airframe that could be wrapped around that big 21(?) liter engine, torque shouldnt bother it, no siree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

tsisqua
05-30-2007, 07:28 AM
"At low altitude, and in the hands of a capable pilot, the P-38 could out-turn the 109 . . . now up high . . . that was a different story." Also: "The Lightning was not able to out-run a 109 in a dive . . . "

Paraphrased quotes from double-ace pilot, Robin Olds. Mentioned on History Channel's "Dogfights" series.

Not trying to debate, I just thought his comments on the Lightning would be of interest here.

Our in-game P-38 isn't a perefect model, but IMHO its probably the best available on a home-pc, at least from the comments I have heard from RL pilots, including a pilot that still flies out of the local airport that I spoke with.

Tsisqua

mynameisroland
05-30-2007, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
odd....in arcade tempests are among what i classify as a lower-level threat to my 38...always a secondary threat compared to most any other types

as for outturning the 38.....can i have some of what your taking? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
the tempest outrolls the L/L late at high speeds? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the calibre of Tempest pilots in Arcade servers is the givaway here.

The Tempest in IL2 out turns Bf109s and therfore the P38. Especially in initial turn rate but also perversely in sustained turn rate. Its rate of roll at dogfighting speeds is as good if not better than the P38 - no one really cares about high speed rate of roll in this comparison as the P38 L may be able to roll like a bowling ball at 400mph but its elevators arent worth sh1t at that speed unlike the Tempests.

Seriously, the fact that in your experience the Tempest isnt a major threat is purely representative of the pilots flying it. Get IL2 Compare on it and check the two.

The DB 605 was 35,7 Litres!

Daiichidoku
05-30-2007, 09:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Maybe the calibre of Tempest pilots in Arcade servers is the givaway here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

true, most arcade guys cant be bothered learning anything more complex than la7s and spits


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Its rate of roll at dogfighting speeds is as good if not better than the P38 - no one really cares about high speed rate of roll in this comparison as the P38 L may be able to roll like a bowling ball at 400mph </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what if 400mph IS your DF speed?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
but its elevators arent worth sh1t at that speed unlike the Tempests. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

obviously, you arent including the DRF factor in that assessment

curious, would you happen to have any historical account or any info on the tempests behaviors and parameters of high speed dives, inc. compressability?

ah! 35.7 lt, ty...couldnt remember the size, just that it was big motor small plane (where is its torque? i know! they put it into the IAR!)

[/QUOTE]

mynameisroland
05-30-2007, 09:22 AM
Well you dont do much manuvering at 400 mph until you run out of speed or height. Still if you want to fight at 400 mph the Tempest is better due to the superior all round control harmony. No one control surface inhibits manuverability, pitch yaw and roll are all responsive.

The Tempests Vne was 540 Knots, it was said by test pilots to out dive the P47, the P51 and the Fw 190 so in respect to dive performance its pretty darn good. Of all the WW2 piston fighters the Tempest was deemed to have the best handling characteristics at near transonic speeds.

The Bf 109 doesnt have much torque, its funny that the Yak with its puny 1200 HP Klimov feels like your wrestling a bear when in a dogfight.

fordfan25
05-30-2007, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
odd....in arcade tempests are among what i classify as a lower-level threat to my 38...always a secondary threat compared to most any other types

as for outturning the 38.....can i have some of what your taking? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
the tempest outrolls the L/L late at high speeds? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the calibre of Tempest pilots in Arcade servers is the givaway here.

The Tempest in IL2 out turns Bf109s and therfore the P38. Especially in initial turn rate but also perversely in sustained turn rate. Its rate of roll at dogfighting speeds is as good if not better than the P38 - no one really cares about high speed rate of roll in this comparison as the P38 L may be able to roll like a bowling ball at 400mph but its elevators arent worth sh1t at that speed unlike the Tempests.

Seriously, the fact that in your experience the Tempest isnt a major threat is purely representative of the pilots flying it. Get IL2 Compare on it and check the two.

The DB 605 was 35,7 Litres! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>what kinda half blind 1 armed n00b 109 piolets are you out turning in a tempist? 109k MABY but others.... well that would have to be one very sucky 109 piolet to regualy get out turned by a temp. in high speed initial turn yea but once the fight is more than 2 MABY 3 turns in, you in trouble. .other than that i agree the Tempist is great.seems all the brit planes are great hu? lol

Col._King
05-30-2007, 11:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I like it but you will have to downsize it according to forum rules....

http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/sig-placeholder.jpg

Same applies to Jasko and Daii </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have redone with the 500 pixel limit width. Devoided of text rows, the space was taken for few (sigh) extra pixels in height (232 pixel height total) to have a minimal decency for resolution. Hope now can be acceptable.
Cheers

crazyivan1970
05-30-2007, 11:45 AM
Yup, all good now. Thanks guys for fixing sigs.

Daii, that sig is hillarious! Reminds me of group of people on this very forum.

Sorry for OT tho.

Gibbage1
05-30-2007, 01:30 PM
I had 1 fight with a Tempest in a P-38 L Late. Since I did not know my enemy, I had a go at it. Last time I flew the Tempest, I felt it was fast (slow to get there) but not very namuverable, and slow climb. So I took him on the vertical, popped flaps and dive brake, and was on him in 2 turns.

It may have been a noob, but I never really feared it unless it was pointing at me. Those 4 20MM's made me sweat, and all he needed was a snap-shot to put me down.

Gibbage1
05-30-2007, 01:44 PM
As I said before, the key to surviving a dogfight is to know your enemy. Im no expert, but this is my stratigy listed per aircraft.

Zero = B&Z, high Yo-Yo's. Stay above him.
FW-190A = Get in close and dogfight. Pepper with .50's to slow him down. Go in for the kill with the 20MM on the tail.
Spitfire = RUN and call your friends!
109 G6 and later = Dogfight.
109 G6 and later with gunpods = Free meal
109 G2 and earlier = Run or high Yo-Yo's.
LA5 and later = 1 pass if you you have the altitude, then run/climb
Yak = Same as LA. Better chance of downing it on the 1 pass.
P-47 = Dogfight
P-51 = Dogfight
P-39 = B&Z
P-63 = Dogfight
FW-190D9 = Dogfight
TA-152 = Dogfight
Ki-84 = Run and call for help
Ki-43 = B&Z
Ki-61 = B&Z or run. Depends on the situation

Im sure your suprised by a few things. Let me explain.
P-51 = Dogfight? YA! 95% of the pilots who fly it dont dogfight in it. They see a BIG P-38 and try and turn. The laminar flow wings on a P-51 dont like low speed, high AOA turns, and will stall out. P-38 will swoop down and bag them. If he gets the best of you, you can climb away, but dont try to dive or fly level.
P-63 uses the same wing, and not many people know how to turn with it. Also, it will run you down like a dog down low. The P-63 was a Reno runner post war, so dont even try and run it. Also, that 37MM is HARD to hit with, and the 2 .50's will tickle, but not likley to score a fatle shot of your manuvering.

FW190D9 = Dogfight? YA! I have found that from high to medium speeds, with flaps and dive brakes, you can stay out of his sights. Once your at low speeds, deploy full flaps and turn HARD. He will stall out long before you. Most of my D9 fights wind up with him stalling into the ground. Same for the TA. THATS what I call "stall fighting" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But realize that once your done, your now low and slow and a jucy target for all of his friends he was calling during the fight.

Its best to judge your situation. The list above is mainly for 1 on 1 fighting with co-alt. Its still ALWAYS best to have the high ground in any situation and in any aircraft.

Daiichidoku
05-30-2007, 02:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970
Daii, that sig is hillarious! Reminds me of group of people on this very forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/Puppets_300.jpg
http://www.puppetswhokill.com/


no naming names now, CI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gibbage1
05-30-2007, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Yup, all good now. Thanks guys for fixing sigs.

Daii, that sig is hillarious! Reminds me of group of people on this very forum.

Sorry for OT tho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Timeout for Ivan for taking this threat OT!!!!

mynameisroland
05-30-2007, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I had 1 fight with a Tempest in a P-38 L Late. Since I did not know my enemy, I had a go at it. Last time I flew the Tempest, I felt it was fast (slow to get there) but not very namuverable, and slow climb. So I took him on the vertical, popped flaps and dive brake, and was on him in 2 turns.

It may have been a noob, but I never really feared it unless it was pointing at me. Those 4 20MM's made me sweat, and all he needed was a snap-shot to put me down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its one of those things, the Tempest in mine and Brain32's opinion (Im sure he wont mind being quoted) can out fight a Bf 109 one on one. It turns as well if not better than them when the combat flaps are deployed. So if the P38 pilot feels that a dogfight with a Bf 109 is dicey it should theoretically be harder against the Tempest.

The Tempest in IL2 is a strange mix between a fast fighter like a Fw 190 and a manuver fighter like a Bf 109. Its definitely not like a SPitfire in terms of turn but few planes are.

WRT acceleration the Tempest is right up there with the D9, faster than the P38 Late iirc, a list was posted on CWOS recently was it not&gt;

super71957
05-30-2007, 05:21 PM
On my first confrontation with the P-38, I was astonished to find an American aircraft that could outrun, outclimb, and outdive our Zero which we thought was the most superior fighter plane in the world. The Lightning's great speed, its sensational high altitude performance, and especially its ability to dive and climb much faster than the Zero presented insuperable problems for our fliers. The P-38 pilots, flying at great height, chose when and where they wanted to fight with disastrous results for our own men. The P-38 boded ill for the future and destroyed the morale of the Zero fighter Pilot."...Saburo Sakai, Japanese Ace

HellToupee
05-30-2007, 05:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Its one of those things, the Tempest in mine and Brain32's opinion (Im sure he wont mind being quoted) can out fight a Bf 109 one on one. It turns as well if not better than them when the combat flaps are deployed. So if the P38 pilot feels that a dogfight with a Bf 109 is dicey it should theoretically be harder against the Tempest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

109 also has combat flaps you know, a d9 would outturn a tempest with combat flaps. Tempest will out fight the 109 if the 109 persists in fighting at high speed, but it cannot match it in low speed manovering and climb.

Its the same situation as 190 vs p38, any sort of high speed engagement 190 easily gets inside p38s turns and blows it away. P38 has to bring the fight speeds down or its dead.

mynameisroland
05-30-2007, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Its one of those things, the Tempest in mine and Brain32's opinion (Im sure he wont mind being quoted) can out fight a Bf 109 one on one. It turns as well if not better than them when the combat flaps are deployed. So if the P38 pilot feels that a dogfight with a Bf 109 is dicey it should theoretically be harder against the Tempest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

109 also has combat flaps you know, a d9 would outturn a tempest with combat flaps. Tempest will out fight the 109 if the 109 persists in fighting at high speed, but it cannot match it in low speed manovering and climb.

Its the same situation as 190 vs p38, any sort of high speed engagement 190 easily gets inside p38s turns and blows it away. P38 has to bring the fight speeds down or its dead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the Bf 109 (G6 onwards) and the Tempest both use combat flaps the Bf 109 doesnt start to gain in turn radius until travelling below 280 km/h. Even then the Tempest can fly at 320 km/h and complete the turn faster than the slower Bf 109. Check it out on IL2 Compare. Then try it out online. The Yak is in a similar situation at 300km/h and above the Yak 9 is a better turner at slower speeds the Bf 109 gains the upperhand.

I dont see too many people claiming the Yak to be less of a turner than the Bf 109, yet the same principle applies get too slow and the 109 wins.